Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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aberick

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Both Katakuri and Luffy got knocked out in the end of fight and luffy wake up first and climb the hole, so kata wake up and seems even more tired than luffy, luffy was already ready to continue fightning, you can see the final panels, but whatever, we can say that this fight was a tie, now image this following scenario for people who are saying that luffy in the end of WCI could not defeat kata: let say kata did like about 50% damage to luffy before luffy got the FS, when the fight was so easy for him, luffy with ALOT more damage than katakuri could tie with Katakuri in the end of fight, now both of them 100% fresh facing each other, do people really think kata could win? some people has difficulties in understanding such simple and obvious things...
Luffy End of WCI: High diff Kata, Luffy with Ryou mid diff kata, only a few hits he could finish him, the guy did some damage to kaidou, the same who tank a bunch of attacks in G4, with CoC he can easily defeat him for sure...
 
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AmitDS

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I don't think it wouldn't be hard fought, but Katakuri's abilities would put Zoro at a MASSIVE disadvantage. Katakuri's future sight and mochi awakening basically nullify fancy swordsmanship. Not only is Zoro not eating his way out of being crushed/suffocated, he wouldn't have the wild plot armor Luffy had in that fight that necessitated Kata stabbing himself. Hell, in a pure 1v1 with no outside influence, even Luffy as he currently is would be a question mark, probably extremely high-diff victory at best.

You mean his sword CAN'T cut everything? 😭
 

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You mean his sword CAN'T cut everything? 😭
What does cutting mochi even accomplish? And what I meant by the mochi awakening being a problem for swordsmanship is that Zoro can't fly. He has to rely on his footing for his strongest attacks.

As for other things Zoro's blades almost certainly can't cut, Doffy's strings were shown to be invincible and were never broken. Ugh... Birdcage was so stupid in the context of powerscaling.
 
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AmitDS

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What does cutting mochi even accomplish? And what I meant by the mochi awakening being a problem for swordsmanship is that Zoro can't fly. He has to rely on his footing for his strongest attacks.

As for other things Zoro's blades almost certainly can't cut, Doffy's strings were shown to be invincible and were never broken. Ugh... Birdcage was so stupid in the context of powerscaling.
Lol I got what you're saying, it's just I was poking fun at certain people that believe Zoro can in fact, cut everything xD

A lot of people gloss over the texture aspect of Katakuri's powerset because Luffy has a freakish appetite and ate through suffocation lol but the fact that mochi is so sticky and elastic would make it very hard for Zoro to get freed and even fight. The same can be said for other Holder/wielder-type fighting styles and even brawlers too. It's just overkill when you also factor in his awakening making the environment mochi as well. Couple that with FS and Zoro has a lot to try to overcome and even then he has to overcome Katakuri's own haki defenses AND offenses.
This could change after his King fight, but atm I don't think Zoro can perform similarly to Luffy did in his Katakuri fight based on his style vs. Katakuri's and Katakuri's FS.

Before people jump me I'm not saying he won't be "YC1" after King xD

EDIT: I just saw your Birdcage part lol. And yes it really was... Partly because of that, Fujitora is really underrated now in the fandom despite him having a really broken DF and well... He is an Admiral. Ironically enough tho, recently on other forums I've been seeing a lot of discourse about Fujitora in relation to the C3 and Green Bull and surprisingly I've been seeing a growing faction of Fujitora defenders. A couple months ago everyone just wrote him off as an 'entry-level' admiral. Progress I guess.

That brings up another topic for discussion 👀
Where do we see Green Bull and Fujitora? Future Zoro/Sanji opponents? YC opponents in a future war?
 
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albertwv

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Honestly, it seems more people on this thread believe Luffy was NOT on Katakuris level right after WCI.

Sanji vs Doffy.
It seems Sanji has defeated Queen, (anti-climatic ending), Queen is a YC2 and I see Queen being able to handle Doffy. Remember Doffy is YC3 equal to Cracker and Jack. So therefore Sanji>Queen>Doffy.
Yet battling Doffy is quite a tough battle with his strings. I think Sanji is physically stronger now than Doffy but he would have some difficulty beating Doffy, because Sanji only has his legs to kick Doffy with. Even Zolo would have a hard time yes.
I dislike how people bring up Jozu vs Doffy. I dont think that was much of a fight and people think Doffy was stronger than Jozu simply because of that. I think Jozu could take on Doffy and maybe not even get CUT by the strings with his Diamond Armor.
I rank Jozu higher than Doffy.
 

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Honestly, it seems more people on this thread believe Luffy was NOT on Katakuris level right after WCI.

Sanji vs Doffy.
It seems Sanji has defeated Queen, (anti-climatic ending), Queen is a YC2 and I see Queen being able to handle Doffy. Remember Doffy is YC3 equal to Cracker and Jack. So therefore Sanji>Queen>Doffy.
Yet battling Doffy is quite a tough battle with his strings. I think Sanji is physically stronger now than Doffy but he would have some difficulty beating Doffy, because Sanji only has his legs to kick Doffy with. Even Zolo would have a hard time yes.
I dislike how people bring up Jozu vs Doffy. I dont think that was much of a fight and people think Doffy was stronger than Jozu simply because of that. I think Jozu could take on Doffy and maybe not even get CUT by the strings with his Diamond Armor.
I rank Jozu higher than Doffy.
Sorry but where's this chapter that shows Sanji defeating queen?
 
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EDIT: I just saw your Birdcage part lol. And yes it really was... Partly because of that, Fujitora is really underrated now in the fandom despite him having a really broken DF and well... He is an Admiral. Ironically enough tho, recently on other forums I've been seeing a lot of discourse about Fujitora in relation to the C3 and Green Bull and surprisingly I've been seeing a growing faction of Fujitora defenders. A couple months ago everyone just wrote him off as an 'entry-level' admiral. Progress I guess.

That brings up another topic for discussion 👀
Where do we see Green Bull and Fujitora? Future Zoro/Sanji opponents? YC opponents in a future war?
To preserve my sanity, I have to believe Fuji wasn't going all out and was desperately trying to punt the saving of Dressrosa to the pirates so he could have his big moment at the end of the arc with Akainu. He was definitely acting in ways that only make sense when you know he was trying to abolish the Shichibukai all along.
 

AmitDS

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Honestly, it seems more people on this thread believe Luffy was NOT on Katakuris level right after WCI.

Sanji vs Doffy.
It seems Sanji has defeated Queen, (anti-climatic ending), Queen is a YC2 and I see Queen being able to handle Doffy. Remember Doffy is YC3 equal to Cracker and Jack. So therefore Sanji>Queen>Doffy.
I don't think Sanji defeated Queen lol. The chapter ended on a 'bad-ass' cliff-hanger with Sanji kicking Queen. The fight's most likely just going into its next phase showcasing Sanji's new "power" he unlocked and for all we know it will be done in tandem with Zoro's against King.
This seems increasingly more likely as we're getting a bunch of Zoro-centric plot points now.

And also, is DD really YC3? lol Looking back on it, I guess he was portrayed very high-tier cuz of his whole arc-boss thing and his SMILE plot with Kaido, Ceasar etc. but iirc, both Kaido and Jack called him 'weak.' This can offer us some clarity considering in the current arc, Kaido refused to call Jack 'weak.' If Jack and DD were on the same level I don't think Kaido would have any qualms calling him 'weak' lol. This could simply just be Kaido actually liking Jack as he was in his crew for at least 20 years but idk lol
 

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And also, is DD really YC3? lol Looking back on it, I guess he was portrayed very high-tier cuz of his whole arc-boss thing and his SMILE plot with Kaido, Ceasar etc. but iirc, both Kaido and Jack called him 'weak.' This can offer us some clarity considering in the current arc, Kaido refused to call Jack 'weak.' If Jack and DD were on the same level I don't think Kaido would have any qualms calling him 'weak' lol. This could simply just be Kaido actually liking Jack as he was in his crew for at least 20 years but idk lol
I've always been of the opinion that Kaidou identifies with Jack because he himself was basically the "Jack" of the Rox Pirates (with Whitebeard and Big Mom being his obvious superiors at the time). The youngling that gets picked on, desperately trying to do his best to be on his peer's level and constantly getting his ass kicked.
 

Lord Traffy Law

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For me DD wasn’t YC3 cause big mum sent cracker after luffy cause she figured he would be enough to take him on
She should be aware of both their strength
( using g4 as a measuring stick , cracker is superior overall tho doffy durability is much higher )
 
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XXGenesis

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Honestly, I don't see why 100% Luffy at the end of WCI couldn't beat 100% Katakuri, as Katakuri's main advantage was his Future Sight.
We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.
 

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I dunno with fujitora I consider him weaker than kizaru akainu and aokiji , and the likes of garp and Sengoku really
Heck I feel like he’s a big part admirals became underrated
 

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We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.
Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him
 

XXGenesis

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Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him
Ok.

Doflamingo IMO is a low end YC3. I don’t see him defeating any YC2 opponents. & the other YC3 I don’t think would stomp him, but I see them having better haki & are physically stronger. Ex. Cracker was able to cut Boundman with his sword, While Doflamingo’s couldn’t even damage Boundman when he tried his attack that lopped off the top of Dressrosa tower & Law’s arm
 
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Shiro33

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Yup, completely agree, the facts are that Luffy had to be stronger at the end of the fight (although just by a tiny bit).

The arguments that we shouldn't count plot armor or his stamina are laughable.
 

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We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.
I said what I said reading all that for the past few pages, though. And he was learning during the match, and near the end Luffy was hella hurt whereas Katakuri was in a better shape. Even if Katakuri is still superior, there's no reason why LUffy still can't win given he does beat superior opponents all the time.
 

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I think im gonna disagree
I just think luffy stamina and endurance is superior to kata , to a less degree than cracker
Luffy been getting his ass beat and pushing himself to endure immense pain and push through, kata fs had avoided him being in long drawn fights and stuff , that's luffy's bag
Luffy ability to keep going supersedes kata , I don’t think kata straight up tapped out , he was exhausted and both he and luffy collapsed from exhaustion, he was proper beat too, saying he allowed is underselling just how much damage he had taken and how much energy/stamina he had used up
 

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For me DD wasn’t YC3 cause big mum sent cracker after luffy cause she figured he would be enough to take him on
She should be aware of both their strength
( using g4 as a measuring stick , cradled is superior overall tho doffy durability is much higher )
I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.
 

XXGenesis

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I said what I said reading all that for the past few pages, though. And he was learning during the match, and near the end Luffy was hella hurt whereas Katakuri was in a better shape. Even if Katakuri is still superior, there's no reason why LUffy still can't win given he does beat superior opponents all the time.
Seriously my last mention, I’m just beat on the topic.

You are right Luffy can defeat superior opponents, in the story of One Piece; Same way we know Luffy will defeat all the big shots and become Pirate King. That’s the story Oda is writing.

Power Scailing is basically a quick VS thread. Who’s stronger than who? & why? the more contentious the more interesting & entertaining conversation can be made.


We explained when exactly Luffy becomes stronger than him. In Udon Prison.
If in your eyes at 100% Luffy finds a way to grow again, ok.

That’s a stretch to me because we aren’t Oda, that’s more fan fic that just using what we seen from the manga and a little imagination.

@ 100% Katakuri is given a high Diff fight from the beginning, with Luffy tagging him a lot more often. Like we keel mentioning Katakuri was still better, at everything. Even replicating Luffy’s techniques. Luffy doesn’t take this win until the next arc.

Honestly Oda is so dope of a writer the perspectives of this fight. Nobody is wrong. If you think Luffy got stronger & defeated Katakuri, ok kool. You can dig deeper & see the change in Katakuri from the beginning of the fight to its end, & understand how this 11hr fight came to an end.

Next topic if ya don’t mind
 
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