Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.

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Lord Traffy Law

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Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him
Ok.

Doflamingo IMO is a low end YC3. I don’t see him defeating any YC2 opponents. & the other YC3 I don’t think would stomp him, but I see them having better haki & are physically stronger. Ex. Cracker was able to cut Boundman with his sword, While Doflamingo’s couldn’t even damage Boundman when he tried his attack that lopped off the top of Dressrosa tower & Law’s arm
I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.

Big mum believes cracker to be superior to doflamingo ( again this is the author hyping up cracker ) big mum pirates probably have the best intelligence of all the yonkou introduced


performance versus gear 4
cracker comfortably reacts and blocks g4 luffy, doffy can't keep up and gets rag dolled around




doffy getting rag dolled and cant even compete




duration of battle
cracker versus luffy lasted 11 hours , doffy versus luffy was very short relatively , not even up to 2, heck


really luffy had to run and retreat

stamina , cracker stamina is elite, what he lacks is endurance really


casual slash from cracker does damage , meanwhile a named attack from doffyh got easily repelled by luffy in g 4
 
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BoyNextDoor

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I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.
wrong

we can take big moms words as the author telling us that cracker is stronger than doflamingo. thats all that was. the author telling us that this new opponent is a step up from luffys last opponent and is also hyping up the yonkou at the same time. basically telling us what calibre of subordinates the yonkou have under them. also when has luffy ever faced a new opponent weaker than his last?
 

aberick

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Argument of some people about luffy endurance and stamina "plot armor", lmao, how its possible to create a discussion where you show facts people reply with "plot armor", so this way they can make their distorted point of view possible? whatever, you can call plot armor, in the end the fact is that he win because he had more stamina and endurance, and kata dont haha
 

Lord Traffy Law

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Argument of some people about luffy endurance and stamina "plot armor", lmao, how its possible to create a discussion where you show facts people reply with "plot armor", so this way they can make their distorted point of view possible? whatever, you can call plot armor, in the end the fact is that he win because he had more stamina and endurance, and kata dont haha
Plus it’s even easy to use the manga to show why
Kata constant use of owning and easily winning means he doesn’t have long drawn out fights usually
Luffy however is used to a gauntlet and had been scraping to survive from the jump , heck his biggest strength is likely his stamina/endurance and durability , luffy just keeps going
 

Ricko

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I don't understant why Big mom words are author words, while other case are not :3c That's interpretation.

I will not call the number of time when Luffy Faced weaker opponents (Mr5, Mr3, Bellamy, beside DF Enel is weaker than Crocodile, Lucy without haki is also weaker than Croc and Enel because of logia etc... etc...)

I agree Cracker got a lot better CoA than Doflamingo, but we don't know for CoO and he don't have CoC...
If Luffy was the way to evaluate all the fight in One Piece, Foxy would be a damn god !

As a simple mind character (as Zoro) any tricky devil fruit have the edge over him.
Doflamingo is more clever, I can think he will manage to find a trick to beat Cracker if they face each other.

Cracker is a god against melee opponent due to his fruit... As he manage to beat Urouge, who is also a strick melee warrior... But against other it will not be the same.
As water seem to be the weakness of his soldier, fighting Jimbei near a water spot would be a immediate loose for exemple...

And honestly.... Eating biscuit and running for 11 hours is not really a feat... And not be able to be a real menace against Luffy during all his pause is not really a good point for Cracker.
And I don't say that Doflamingo will win, but I think he's a more difficult opponent for Cracker than Luffy, because of his versatile abilty and intelligence.
 

AmitDS

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As a simple mind character (as Zoro) any tricky devil fruit have the edge over him.
Doflamingo is more clever, I can think he will manage to find a trick to beat Cracker if they face each other.


And I don't say that Doflamingo will win, but I think he's a more difficult opponent for Cracker than Luffy, because of his versatile abilty and intelligence.
Re-read that again lol.

Anyway, I think we're missing a facet of Cracker's kit here. He's not just biscuits, his CoA was hard enough to fight G4 and even cut halfway through Luffy's arm, while DD was being rag-dolled.
As far as we know and have seen, DD doesn't have AdCoC so having or not having basic CoC is moot here. And on the CoO front, Cracker's VC confirms he's a user of CoA, as we already know, and CoO.
I would say DD loses this fight probably high-diff.
 
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BoyNextDoor

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I will not call the number of time when Luffy Faced weaker opponents (Mr5, Mr3, Bellamy, beside DF Enel is weaker than Crocodile, Lucy without haki is also weaker than Croc and Enel because of logia etc... etc...)
whos lucy? you mean rob lucci? i really hope not
 

AmitDS

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On another note, Sanji Vs. Queen isn't over 🤭
 

Lord Traffy Law

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Also there seems to be a flip side
It’s looking like king versus Zoro might conclude before queen versus sanji
 

grey matter

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I've always been of the opinion that Kaidou identifies with Jack because he himself was basically the "Jack" of the Rox Pirates (with Whitebeard and Big Mom being his obvious superiors at the time). The youngling that gets picked on, desperately trying to do his best to be on his peer's level and constantly getting his ass kicked.
Also likely because, Jack was in his crew since we was a small Boi
 

Lord Traffy Law

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I don't think Sanji defeated Queen lol. The chapter ended on a 'bad-ass' cliff-hanger with Sanji kicking Queen. The fight's most likely just going into its next phase showcasing Sanji's new "power" he unlocked and for all we know it will be done in tandem with Zoro's against King.
This seems increasingly more likely as we're getting a bunch of Zoro-centric plot points now.

And also, is DD really YC3? lol Looking back on it, I guess he was portrayed very high-tier cuz of his whole arc-boss thing and his SMILE plot with Kaido, Ceasar etc. but iirc, both Kaido and Jack called him 'weak.' This can offer us some clarity considering in the current arc, Kaido refused to call Jack 'weak.' If Jack and DD were on the same level I don't think Kaido would have any qualms calling him 'weak' lol. This could simply just be Kaido actually liking Jack as he was in his crew for at least 20 years but idk lol
I've always been of the opinion that Kaidou identifies with Jack because he himself was basically the "Jack" of the Rox Pirates (with Whitebeard and Big Mom being his obvious superiors at the time). The youngling that gets picked on, desperately trying to do his best to be on his peer's level and constantly getting his ass kicked.
Also likely because, Jack was in his crew since we was a small Boi
Kaido isn’t that sentimental, he doesn’t play when it comes to weakness and strength
He considers jack strong to a degree (he’s quite literally the 3rd strongest member of the crew after kaido )
I’m not saying those explanations aren’t possible but we currently have on panel explanations as to why currrently and not possible storybeats
Jack and kaido calling doffy weak , big mum believing cracker to be superior to doffy , cracker believing he’s up to the task , so we at least have 2 yonkou who believe or can imply and infer that their YC3 are superior to doffy

and in 3 instances haki , defense , speed/reaction time(g4 was blitzing doffy , cracker was comfortable in battle versus g4) cracker is superior to doflamingo comfortably using reliable opponents
The only instance that doffy is superior to doffy is his ability to take a punch really
 

albertwv

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People who believe that end of WCI Luffy is stronger than Kata literally have no manga proof that he is except, "trust me bro"
When I showed panels of the fight and even suggested when Luffy finally surprassed Katakuri, in Udon Prison.
Whatever, I guess headcanon trumps manga facts

Sorry I mentioned Sanji vs Queen with Sanji the winner. This past week I've been trying to talk about the possibility of the fight ending and nobody bothered responding , so I just assumed everybody else thought the fight was over and that Sanji had won.
I do NOT think the fight is over, hopefully not, if not then it was super anti-climatic.
I do hope to see more of Queen.
 

grey matter

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Big mum believes cracker to be superior to doflamingo ( again this is the author hyping up cracker ) big mum pirates probably have the best intelligence of all the yonkou introduced


performance versus gear 4
cracker comfortably reacts and blocks g4 luffy, doffy can't keep up and gets rag dolled around




doffy getting rag dolled and cant even compete




duration of battle
cracker versus luffy lasted 11 hours , doffy versus luffy was very short relatively , not even up to 2, heck


really luffy had to run and retreat

stamina , cracker stamina is elite, what he lacks is endurance really


casual slash from cracker does damage , meanwhile a named attack from doffyh got easily repelled by luffy in g 4
Kaido isn’t that sentimental, he doesn’t play when it comes to weakness and strength
He considers jack strong to a degree (he’s quite literally the 3rd strongest member of the crew after kaido )
I’m not saying those explanations aren’t possible but we currently have on panel explanations as to why currrently and not possible storybeats
Jack and kaido calling doffy weak , big mum believing cracker to be superior to doffy , cracker believing he’s up to the task , so we at least have 2 yonkou who believe or can imply and infer that their YC3 are superior to doffy

and in 3 instances haki , defense , speed/reaction time(g4 was blitzing doffy , cracker was comfortable in battle versus g4) cracker is superior to doflamingo comfortably using reliable opponents
The only instance that doffy is superior to doffy is his ability to take a punch really
Why are we forgetting that Doflamingo was kinda hard countered by G4 Luffy?
He can expand and contract at will, and G4 is simultaneously armament hardened and rubbery

Doflamingo still needed 2 rounds of G4

Cracker would've been folded in one round of G4 if Luffy had intel on Cracker. In fact, he was almost about to one shot him after getting through his biscuit warriors, before he conveniently ran out of time.

And again, it kinda comes down to matchups.
Current Zoro, for eg, would low-mid diff Cracker. While Zoro might actually lose to Doflamingo.

As for Cracker vs Doflamingo.
Pretty sure his strings can immobilize the biscuits. His strings have immobilized characters much stronger than the biscuits. And if there are any gaps in the biscuit warrior, Cracker hiding inside goes down swiftly
If Cracker is outside the biscuit, it's an easy win for Doflamingo, since the guy is basically glass canon.


Also, you're overrating the biscuit warriors. They aren't that tanky. G4 Luffy one shotted countless number of them:




As for Jack, it does seem like he is the "kid" of the Kaido crew.
Kinda like how Shanks, Buggy, Marco, Vista etc were in WB/Roger crew. Joined the crews as chibis
Kaido probably isn't as harsh as usual to him.
 

AmitDS

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Sorry I mentioned Sanji vs Queen with Sanji the winner. This past week I've been trying to talk about the possibility of the fight ending and nobody bothered responding , so I just assumed everybody else thought the fight was over and that Sanji had won.
I do NOT think the fight is over, hopefully not, if not then it was super anti-climatic.
I do hope to see more of Queen.
I'm glad the fight didn't conclude yet with Sanji finishing off Queen with one attack after his "awakening." It also would've been really anti-climactic as you said. I mean.. even Jack the Drag-down got an announcement of his defeat xD
I guess now Queen will lean more into his cyborg stuff as I think we have already seen the extent of his DF.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Cracker would've been folded in one round of G4 if Luffy had intel on Cracker. In fact, he was almost about to one shot him after getting through his biscuit warriors, before he conveniently ran out of time.
Cracker was fighting G4. Cracker was cutting through Luffy's G4 arm. Luffy won because of Nami softening his biscuits, enabling him to eat them and go into Tankman.

And again, it kinda comes down to matchups.
Current Zoro, for eg, would low-mid diff Cracker. While Zoro might actually lose to Doflamingo.
So Current Zoro will lose to DD but win against someone who has superior armament haki than DD? Makes sense.

As for Cracker vs Doflamingo.
Pretty sure his strings can immobilize the biscuits. His strings have immobilized characters much stronger than the biscuits. And if there are any gaps in the biscuit warrior, Cracker hiding inside goes down swiftly
If Cracker is outside the biscuit, it's an easy win for Doflamingo, since the guy is basically glass canon.
So Cracker will see DD's strings coming for him inside biscuit holes and say, "aight, guess I'll die." Got it.

Also, you're overrating the biscuit warriors. They aren't that tanky. G4 Luffy one shotted countless number of them:
You need G4 level haki to break them, that's what makes them tanky and that's without Cracker's armament haki applied.
 

AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA

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I'm glad the fight didn't conclude yet with Sanji finishing off Queen with one attack after his "awakening." It also would've been really anti-climactic as you said. I mean.. even Jack the Drag-down got an announcement of his defeat xD
I guess now Queen will lean more into his cyborg stuff as I think we have already seen the extent of his DF.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Cracker was fighting G4. Cracker was cutting through Luffy's G4 arm. Luffy won because of Nami softening his biscuits, enabling him to eat them and go into Tankman.



So Current Zoro will lose to DD but win against someone who has superior armament haki than DD? Makes sense.



So Cracker will see DD's strings coming for him inside biscuit holes and say, "aight, guess I'll die." Got it.



You need G4 level haki to break them, that's what makes them tanky and that's without Cracker's armament haki applied.
It's clear Cracker is well stronger than Doflamingo and a more difficult opponent for almost anyone bar the Yonko to fight. Without intel, the opponent is doomed as even if they are able to defeat a single biscuit soldier, he has almost limitless coming. He's a one man army with tanky and powerful soldiers in his wake. Freakishly strong CoA and pretty mischievous in combat.

The only thing helping Doflamingo damage Cracker's biscuit soldiers would be his awakened strings. Doffy himself however is too weak to deal any meaningful damage to a single biscuit soldier.

It's going to be an obvious win for Cracker but the difficulty would depend on Doflamingo's versatility.
Without Intel, he's losing quickly, with Intel however, it might get slightly difficult for Cracker. Slightly...
--- Double Post Merged, ---

G4 Luffy one shotted countless number of them:
You do know how powerful G4 Luffy is right? Very few commanders can handle him in that form. Doffy acknowledged G3 punches would be enough to do him in if only they weren't slow. Same punches couldn't scratch a single biscuit soldier. Cracker's a nightmare to fight.
 

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I think many people are just to much focus on G4 Luffy as reference for all fights... What I think is really wrong.

Just one element could turn Cracker to top tier God commander to not so godly.
Does Dofli awaken devil fruit can turn Biscuit soldier to thread ?

We know that Law DF got a limit to his opponent haki, but what define this limit ?
As we saw in fight with Vergo, this guy have a better CoA than Law, but was weaker in overall as he was effected by his power.

Dofli was able to unfrozen himself for Aokiji, something Jozu couldn't manage. And we all believe that Jozu CoA must be at least as strong as Cracker's.

G4 Luffy is only a measurment in speed and pure strength. Cracker is good in both, this guy got a incredible CoA.
Devil fruit are also a really important part of the fight.
Dofly would have parasite Luffy in G4 mode and not normal mode, it was game over.

It's the reason why I say, CoA is important, but we don't know the difference in other form of Haki.
We know that :
Cracker CoA > Dofly CoA

But we don't know if
Cracker CoA + CoO > Dofly CoA + CoO + CoC
And the effect it have over DF

Hope you get my point.
 

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Does Dofli awaken devil fruit can turn Biscuit soldier to thread ?
I don't think that's how it works lol Or if he can in fact turn others' DF stuff into his DF material that'd be broken. But then that opens up a new discussion as to the limits of awakenings and we don't have enough info on that as yet xD So I'll just refrain from discussing this idea.

Dofli was able to unfrozen himself for Aokiji, something Jozu couldn't manage. And we all believe that Jozu CoA must be at least as strong as Cracker's.
Pre-TS is known for shaky haki usage as it was pretty much really established and fleshed out post-ts lol so I won't put too much stock into Jozu's helplessness against DD's parasite strings. This also is moot considering Luffy broke free of his parasite strings in his fight when he activated G4. Based on the description of the attack as well, it's a string that penetrates your neck and goes to connect to your spine. I see no reason why a proficient CoA user can't block it. I think the whole G4 Luffy breaking free thing actually supports this.

Luffy being controlled by Parasite String:


Luffy activates G4 and is freed:

It's the reason why I say, CoA is important, but we don't know the difference in other form of Haki.
We know that :
Cracker CoA > Dofly CoA

But we don't know if
Cracker CoA + CoO > Dofly CoA + CoO + CoC
And the effect it have over DF
As I said above, DD doesn't have AdCoC as far as we know or have seen. So based on that, him having regular CoC vs. Cracker who doesn't, isn't doing anything for him really lol
And as we know, Cracker's CoA is vastly superior to DD's using G4 as a benchmark. The same G4 Luffy that was dominating DD in the prior arc, was being handled fairly well by Cracker thanks to his CoA after Luffy uncovered his true body.
Regarding CoO, from what we've seen, the only form that has clear superiority to others' CoO is FS like with Katakuri and now Luffy. So both DD and Cracker squaring off with ~the same level of CoO is not an advantage to any of them really.
So in all, this fight boils down to CoA.
 

albertwv

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And we're back on the Cracker vs DD.
My money goes to Cracker
The thing is with Cracker, Oda did him bad, real bad. For the first Yonko Commander fight Luffy has, and we only see a small portion of the fight, Oda handled that badly.
Oda post TS handles a lot of important fights by simply off-screening them.
 

Fallou

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And we're back on the Cracker vs DD.
My money goes to Cracker
The thing is with Cracker, Oda did him bad, real bad. For the first Yonko Commander fight Luffy has, and we only see a small portion of the fight, Oda handled that badly.
Oda post TS handles a lot of important fights by simply off-screening them.
To be fair, there were a lot more fights post TS than pre-TS, so some of them had to have less time...
 
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