Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Rein Avara]

Honestly, it seems more people on this thread believe Luffy was NOT on Katakuris level right after WCI.

Sanji vs Doffy.
It seems Sanji has defeated Queen, (anti-climatic ending), Queen is a YC2 and I see Queen being able to handle Doffy. Remember Doffy is YC3 equal to Cracker and Jack. So therefore Sanji>Queen>Doffy.
Yet battling Doffy is quite a tough battle with his strings. I think Sanji is physically stronger now than Doffy but he would have some difficulty beating Doffy, because Sanji only has his legs to kick Doffy with. Even Zolo would have a hard time yes.
I dislike how people bring up Jozu vs Doffy. I dont think that was much of a fight and people think Doffy was stronger than Jozu simply because of that. I think Jozu could take on Doffy and maybe not even get CUT by the strings with his Diamond Armor.
I rank Jozu higher than Doffy.

Sorry but where's this chapter that shows Sanji defeating queen?

 

[zetsu banned]

EDIT: I just saw your Birdcage part lol. And yes it really was... Partly because of that, Fujitora is really underrated now in the fandom despite him having a really broken DF and well... He is an Admiral. Ironically enough tho, recently on other forums I've been seeing a lot of discourse about Fujitora in relation to the C3 and Green Bull and surprisingly I've been seeing a growing faction of Fujitora defenders. A couple months ago everyone just wrote him off as an 'entry-level' admiral. Progress I guess.

That brings up another topic for discussion
Where do we see Green Bull and Fujitora? Future Zoro/Sanji opponents? YC opponents in a future war?

To preserve my sanity, I have to believe Fuji wasn't going all out and was desperately trying to punt the saving of Dressrosa to the pirates so he could have his big moment at the end of the arc with Akainu. He was definitely acting in ways that only make sense when you know he was trying to abolish the Shichibukai all along.

 

[AmitDS]

Honestly, it seems more people on this thread believe Luffy was NOT on Katakuris level right after WCI.

Sanji vs Doffy.
It seems Sanji has defeated Queen, (anti-climatic ending), Queen is a YC2 and I see Queen being able to handle Doffy. Remember Doffy is YC3 equal to Cracker and Jack. So therefore Sanji>Queen>Doffy.

I don't think Sanji defeated Queen lol. The chapter ended on a 'bad-ass' cliff-hanger with Sanji kicking Queen. The fight's most likely just going into its next phase showcasing Sanji's new "power" he unlocked and for all we know it will be done in tandem with Zoro's against King.

Spoiler

This seems increasingly more likely as we're getting a bunch of Zoro-centric plot points now.

And also, is DD really YC3? lol Looking back on it, I guess he was portrayed very high-tier cuz of his whole arc-boss thing and his SMILE plot with Kaido, Ceasar etc. but iirc, both Kaido and Jack called him 'weak.' This can offer us some clarity considering in the current arc, Kaido refused to call Jack 'weak.' If Jack and DD were on the same level I don't think Kaido would have any qualms calling him 'weak' lol. This could simply just be Kaido actually liking Jack as he was in his crew for at least 20 years but idk lol

 

[zetsu banned]

And also, is DD really YC3? lol Looking back on it, I guess he was portrayed very high-tier cuz of his whole arc-boss thing and his SMILE plot with Kaido, Ceasar etc. but iirc, both Kaido and Jack called him 'weak.' This can offer us some clarity considering in the current arc, Kaido refused to call Jack 'weak.' If Jack and DD were on the same level I don't think Kaido would have any qualms calling him 'weak' lol. This could simply just be Kaido actually liking Jack as he was in his crew for at least 20 years but idk lol

I've always been of the opinion that Kaidou identifies with Jack because he himself was basically the "Jack" of the Rox Pirates (with Whitebeard and Big Mom being his obvious superiors at the time). The youngling that gets picked on, desperately trying to do his best to be on his peer's level and constantly getting his ass kicked.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

For me DD wasn’t YC3 cause big mum sent cracker after luffy cause she figured he would be enough to take him on
She should be aware of both their strength
( using g4 as a measuring stick , cracker is superior overall tho doffy durability is much higher )

 

[XXGenesis]

Honestly, I don't see why 100% Luffy at the end of WCI couldn't beat 100% Katakuri, as Katakuri's main advantage was his Future Sight.

We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I dunno with fujitora I consider him weaker than kizaru akainu and aokiji , and the likes of garp and Sengoku really
Heck I feel like he’s a big part admirals became underrated

 

[aberick]

We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.

Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him

 

[XXGenesis]

Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him

Ok.

Doflamingo IMO is a low end YC3. I don’t see him defeating any YC2 opponents. & the other YC3 I don’t think would stomp him, but I see them having better haki & are physically stronger. Ex. Cracker was able to cut Boundman with his sword, While Doflamingo’s couldn’t even damage Boundman when he tried his attack that lopped off the top of Dressrosa tower & Law’s arm

 

[Shiro33]

Ok.

Yup, completely agree, the facts are that Luffy had to be stronger at the end of the fight (although just by a tiny bit).

The arguments that we shouldn't count plot armor or his stamina are laughable.

 

[M3J]

We’ve been explaining why for like 2 pages. I’ll answer one last time & I’ll move on from the topic.

Luffy was outclassed the Whole fight; Even at the end.

Luffy learned FS during the match still wasn’t better than Katakuri.

Katakuri’s CoA was still much better than Luffy’s, Even in G4 Snakeman; Katakuri owned Boundman already also.
Both @ 100% Katakuri is still the top Dog.

Katakuri QUIT the fight.

Luffy did not surpass him, he won the fight because he PROVED to Katakuri he wasn’t Mr.Perfect & that Luffy himself wasn’t pathetic for falling on the ground, he actually could tango with him. Katakuri’s fake persona he kept up in front of his family was Defeated, & Luffy showed his worth.

So Luffy was never stronger than Katakuri. Until an arc later when he trained both his physical strength & learned ACoA Haki.

I said what I said reading all that for the past few pages, though. And he was learning during the match, and near the end Luffy was hella hurt whereas Katakuri was in a better shape. Even if Katakuri is still superior, there's no reason why LUffy still can't win given he does beat superior opponents all the time.

 

[Ellenate]

The arguments that we shouldn't count plot armor...

...are laughable.

Right?!

How do people expect luffy to win fights without plot armor?

Skill?
Ability?
Competency?
Smarts?

NONE OF THE ABOVE, I SAY! *ha*

---
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis, that's the way luffy needs plot

his stamina

Luffy has good stamina?

That's news to me.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think im gonna disagree
I just think luffy stamina and endurance is superior to kata , to a less degree than cracker
Luffy been getting his ass beat and pushing himself to endure immense pain and push through, kata fs had avoided him being in long drawn fights and stuff , that's luffy's bag
Luffy ability to keep going supersedes kata , I don’t think kata straight up tapped out , he was exhausted and both he and luffy collapsed from exhaustion, he was proper beat too, saying he allowed is underselling just how much damage he had taken and how much energy/stamina he had used up

 

[Ricko]

For me DD wasn’t YC3 cause big mum sent cracker after luffy cause she figured he would be enough to take him on
She should be aware of both their strength
( using g4 as a measuring stick , cradled is superior overall tho doffy durability is much higher )

I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.

 

[XXGenesis]

I said what I said reading all that for the past few pages, though. And he was learning during the match, and near the end Luffy was hella hurt whereas Katakuri was in a better shape. Even if Katakuri is still superior, there's no reason why LUffy still can't win given he does beat superior opponents all the time.

Seriously my last mention, I’m just beat on the topic.

You are right Luffy can defeat superior opponents, in the story of One Piece; Same way we know Luffy will defeat all the big shots and become Pirate King. That’s the story Oda is writing.

Power Scailing is basically a quick VS thread. Who’s stronger than who? & why? the more contentious the more interesting & entertaining conversation can be made.


We explained when exactly Luffy becomes stronger than him. In Udon Prison.
If in your eyes at 100% Luffy finds a way to grow again, ok.

That’s a stretch to me because we aren’t Oda, that’s more fan fic that just using what we seen from the manga and a little imagination.

@ 100% Katakuri is given a high Diff fight from the beginning, with Luffy tagging him a lot more often. Like we keel mentioning Katakuri was still better, at everything. Even replicating Luffy’s techniques. Luffy doesn’t take this win until the next arc.

Honestly Oda is so dope of a writer the perspectives of this fight. Nobody is wrong. If you think Luffy got stronger & defeated Katakuri, ok kool. You can dig deeper & see the change in Katakuri from the beginning of the fight to its end, & understand how this 11hr fight came to an end.

Next topic if ya don’t mind

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Your explanation is based on pure miss interpretation of what happened, saying that he quit the fight, bring facts here, yes, katakuri outclass luffy in Hakis, but didnt outclass him in the most important aspect, the endurance, haki its not all my friend, luffy in snake man could hit him few times, even with FS, because of that luffy won the fight, who woke up first? who was able to keep fighting if necessary? he lost the battle, so saying he was not stronger and he quit the fight because he want its your interpretation, not the true, the guy who was easy diff for katakuri from the start of the fight and took alot of easy damage because of that was able to get strong and defeat him

Ok.

Doflamingo IMO is a low end YC3. I don’t see him defeating any YC2 opponents. & the other YC3 I don’t think would stomp him, but I see them having better haki & are physically stronger. Ex. Cracker was able to cut Boundman with his sword, While Doflamingo’s couldn’t even damage Boundman when he tried his attack that lopped off the top of Dressrosa tower & Law’s arm

I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.

Big mum believes cracker to be superior to doflamingo ( again this is the author hyping up cracker ) big mum pirates probably have the best intelligence of all the yonkou introduced


performance versus gear 4
cracker comfortably reacts and blocks g4 luffy, doffy can't keep up and gets rag dolled around

doffy getting rag dolled and cant even compete

duration of battle
cracker versus luffy lasted 11 hours , doffy versus luffy was very short relatively , not even up to 2, heck

Spoiler: duration of battle

really luffy had to run and retreat

stamina , cracker stamina is elite, what he lacks is endurance really

Spoiler: haki comparison

casual slash from cracker does damage , meanwhile a named attack from doffyh got easily repelled by luffy in g 4

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I'm not sure about this. I'll not be certain that people really know the strength of each other... As we know, Doflamingo was not part of big fight outside the War of the summit, where he did a really good job.
And most big guns in new world are clever enough to hide their skills when they can, in One piece knowledge lead to victory most of time.
As Cracker do, his strength is mainly because he hide his real power.
And Bege also hide his capacity to all BM pirates, as Kid hide as muc has he can to Law...

And Pirates used to always despise Shichibukai, even low level captain call them weak... Remember Pupu challenged Crocodile, with a bad result we all know...
And even Crocodile feel himself superior to Doflamingo, while we all know that even with his powerup, he would lose badly.

Cracker vs Doflamingo would be a really interesting fight, but I'm not sure that the YC would win.
Just because the flying make the Shichibukai out of reach, would be a big problem, unless Cracker can build really immense soldiers.

wrong

we can take big moms words as the author telling us that cracker is stronger than doflamingo. thats all that was. the author telling us that this new opponent is a step up from luffys last opponent and is also hyping up the yonkou at the same time. basically telling us what calibre of subordinates the yonkou have under them. also when has luffy ever faced a new opponent weaker than his last?

 

[aberick]

Argument of some people about luffy endurance and stamina "plot armor", lmao, how its possible to create a discussion where you show facts people reply with "plot armor", so this way they can make their distorted point of view possible? whatever, you can call plot armor, in the end the fact is that he win because he had more stamina and endurance, and kata dont haha

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Argument of some people about luffy endurance and stamina "plot armor", lmao, how its possible to create a discussion where you show facts people reply with "plot armor", so this way they can make their distorted point of view possible? whatever, you can call plot armor, in the end the fact is that he win because he had more stamina and endurance, and kata dont haha

Plus it’s even easy to use the manga to show why
Kata constant use of owning and easily winning means he doesn’t have long drawn out fights usually
Luffy however is used to a gauntlet and had been scraping to survive from the jump , heck his biggest strength is likely his stamina/endurance and durability , luffy just keeps going

 

[Ricko]

I don't understant why Big mom words are author words, while other case are not That's interpretation.

I will not call the number of time when Luffy Faced weaker opponents (Mr5, Mr3, Bellamy, beside DF Enel is weaker than Crocodile, Lucy without haki is also weaker than Croc and Enel because of logia etc... etc...)

I agree Cracker got a lot better CoA than Doflamingo, but we don't know for CoO and he don't have CoC...
If Luffy was the way to evaluate all the fight in One Piece, Foxy would be a damn god !

As a simple mind character (as Zoro) any tricky devil fruit have the edge over him.
Doflamingo is more clever, I can think he will manage to find a trick to beat Cracker if they face each other.

Cracker is a god against melee opponent due to his fruit... As he manage to beat Urouge, who is also a strick melee warrior... But against other it will not be the same.
As water seem to be the weakness of his soldier, fighting Jimbei near a water spot would be a immediate loose for exemple...

And honestly.... Eating biscuit and running for 11 hours is not really a feat... And not be able to be a real menace against Luffy during all his pause is not really a good point for Cracker.
And I don't say that Doflamingo will win, but I think he's a more difficult opponent for Cracker than Luffy, because of his versatile abilty and intelligence.