One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

I am pretty sure Katakuri's offense is stronger than Jack's, at least based on what Jack showed so far.
The only thing where Jack is superior is his endurance, may be connected to his DF or to his fishman half or both.
Still, fighting against someone like Luffy wont make him last any longer than Katakuri, if anything he would go down faster imo.

 

[LaGOAT]

@Shasha23 ok? He He took the hit while being blindside and till able to keep going. U have no proof that lucci U would . 2. Lol Ur making seem that he gonna have a barrel of water with him like luffy did.

 

[Shasha23]

@Shasha23 ok? He He took the hit while being blindside and till able to keep going. U have no proof that lucci U would . 2. Lol Ur making seem that he gonna have a barrel of water with him like luffy did.

what are you talking about, dont just assume people know whats going on in your head, state what your on about so we can all know what your saying!!!!

What hit are you talking about?
Why would Lucci need a barrel of water, to fight Crocodile, all he needs is to get his fur wet!

 

[Shasha23]

Being capable of fighting for five days means nothing when you can be knocked out in five minutes.

Cat and Dog weren't strong enough to defeat him sooner, hence the reason it became a battle of who would last longer.

I think what @M3J meant was that unlike Cracker and Katakuri, Jack is always fighting and he is in peak form, the major reason Katakuri and Cracker lost was that their bodies had not been pushed for years, all they were doing was eating doughnuts and not trying to improve themselves unlike Jack who is constantly fighting and getting stronger and wont fall for the trap of "its been a long time since i last took a hit/damage" .

 

[Zehahaha]

I think what @M3J meant was that unlike Cracker and Katakuri, Jack is always fighting and he is in peak form, the major reason Katakuri and Cracker lost was that their bodies had not been pushed for years, all they were doing was eating doughnuts and not trying to improve themselves unlike Jack who is constantly fighting and getting stronger and wont fall for the trap of "its been a long time since i last took a hit/damage" .

We don't know that either, we only saw Jack fight against the Minks and get rekt by Marines, hardly an example of fighting all the time really

 

[M3J]

Being capable of fighting for five days means nothing when you can be knocked out in five minutes.

Cat and Dog weren't strong enough to defeat him sooner, hence the reason it became a battle of who would last longer.

How can you be knocked out in five minutes if you can take blows and still fight for five days? Being capable of fighting for days means a lot if you can last that long and not collapse. Ace and Jinbei may not be the strongest, but they're pretty strong, and we know Akainu and Aokiji are extremely strong, and all four can take blows and still fight.

We literally have no way to gauge any of their strength, it's all just assumptions likely based on what we want to believe.

I think what @M3J meant was that unlike Cracker and Katakuri, Jack is always fighting and he is in peak form, the major reason Katakuri and Cracker lost was that their bodies had not been pushed for years, all they were doing was eating doughnuts and not trying to improve themselves unlike Jack who is constantly fighting and getting stronger and wont fall for the trap of "its been a long time since i last took a hit/damage" .

No.... I'm saying Jack has shown endurance.

We don't know that either, we only saw Jack fight against the Minks and get rekt by Marines, hardly an example of fighting all the time really

We saw Jack go up against multiple strong members of the Marines and still survive to go back to Zou. So far, there's no reason to believe that he's weaker than Katakuri or would lose to Luffy.

 

[kcd]

I think what @M3J meant was that unlike Cracker and Katakuri, Jack is always fighting and he is in peak form, the major reason Katakuri and Cracker lost was that their bodies had not been pushed for years, all they were doing was eating doughnuts and not trying to improve themselves unlike Jack who is constantly fighting and getting stronger and wont fall for the trap of "its been a long time since i last took a hit/damage" .

What big bro M3J meant was that Jack is more dangerous than Katakuri simply because he can fight for days. I'm saying it's not as simple as that.

The point we are making is that, having stamina that can last for days is irrelevant, if you meet someone that can reck you in five minutes. I don't see him lasting an hour against a serious White Beared, because his attacks would be much stronger, and would hurt him greatly.

All they were doing was eating doughnuts and not trying to improve themselves unlike Jack who is constantly fighting and getting stronger and wont fall for the trap of "its been a long time since i last took a hit/damage" .

I also think you are greatly underestimating Katakuri.
Jack can’t evade attacks the way Katakuri do.
If Jack fights Luffy, do you think he would’ve lasted more than Katakuri did against Luffy?

How can you be knocked out in five minutes if you can take blows and still fight for five days? Being capable of fighting for days means a lot if you can last that long and not collapse. Ace and Jinbei may not be the strongest, but they're pretty strong, and we know Akainu and Aokiji are extremely strong, and all four can take blows and still fight.

We literally have no way to gauge any of their strength, it's all just assumptions likely based on what we want to believe.

No.... I'm saying Jack has shown endurance.

We saw Jack go up against multiple strong members of the Marines and still survive to go back to Zou. So far, there's no reason to believe that he's weaker than Katakuri or would lose to Luffy.

Against Cat and Dog, the blows he received ain't above his threshold, that's why he kept on fighting.
As an example, I’m not sure He lasted up to 10 seconds against “Zou the elephant” Or even one hour against fujitoro, so?

Stamina to last for days is great, but won’t help him if he meets someone whose attack is strong enough to hurt him … is the point.

 

[M3J]

What big bro M3J meant was that Jack is more dangerous than Katakuri simply because he can fight for days. I'm saying it's not as simple as that.

The point we are making is that, having stamina that can last for days is irrelevant, if you meet someone that can reck you in five minutes. I don't see him lasting an hour against a serious White Beared, because his attacks would be much stronger, and would hurt him greatly.


I also think you are greatly underestimating Katakuri.
Jack can’t evade attacks the way Katakuri do.
If Jack fights Luffy, do you think he would’ve lasted more than Katakuri did against Luffy?




Against Cat and Dog, the blows he received ain't above his threshold, that's why he kept on fighting.
As an example, I’m not sure He lasted up to 10 seconds against “Zou the elephant” Or even one hour against fujitoro, so?

Stamina to last for days is great, but won’t help him if he meets someone whose attack is strong enough to hurt him … is the point.

What's his threshold? You're assuming his threshold isn't much, or that Luffy could beat it when multiple opponents couldn't against Jack.

Um, wasn't Jack knocked into the water and unable to move because he's a devil fruit user? He looked aware and everything, and it didn't look like a defeat because he was knocked out, but because he can't do anything but breathe underwater. I forgot, but wasn't it said that Jack's ship was hit by cannons and sunk, or that he was somehow thought to have died in an explosion or fire? either way, he still managed to not be captured by the Marines.

Assuming the Zou enemies weren't strong enough to hurt Jack, then all we have to go by is his ability to fight for days. Otherwise, again, no reason to believe he wasn't feeling the hits he took.

 

[kcd]

What's his threshold? You're assuming his threshold isn't much, or that Luffy could beat it when multiple opponents couldn't against Jack.

Um, wasn't Jack knocked into the water and unable to move because he's a devil fruit user? He looked aware and everything, and it didn't look like a defeat because he was knocked out, but because he can't do anything but breathe underwater. I forgot, but wasn't it said that Jack's ship was hit by cannons and sunk, or that he was somehow thought to have died in an explosion or fire? either way, he still managed to not be captured by the Marines.

Assuming the Zou enemies weren't strong enough to hurt Jack, then all we have to go by is his ability to fight for days. Otherwise, again, no reason to believe he wasn't feeling the hits he took.

Listen to me. I’m not saying Jack’s endurance or pain threshold is low.
I’m only debunking the ideology that someone that can fight for days is automatically more dangerous than someone who doesn’t.

I’ll ask a question and leave it to you to decide.
What do you think about this matchup: “Jack vs serious White Beard” ???

Against WB, I think that days would be reduced to mere hours... so that logic of: “But, he can last for five days” is flawed.

Anyways, If after this, you still think he would last days against Whitebeard or any Emperor, then there’s nothing I’ll say that would change your mind.

It's up to you really.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

I think it might possibly be the fact that Jack has very high recovery speed. So okay he can get defeated by Zunisha and once he gets fished otut he recovers and pops up elsewhere and be good to fight again. It isn't unheard of in the One Piece world. Luffy literally use meat and food as sensu beans. We see it time and time again. I think he wanted meat after Nico Robin rescued him after Crocodile stabbed him thru the guts then dried him up. And the time after his hormone trestment in impel down lol... Maybe other characters do it in other ways. Oda may never show this but Cat and/or Dog might have KOed Jack but he just come back in a few days somewhat recovered and used agent orange on the minks since he knows he will get KOed again if he didn't. That will keep him relevant. He can come back later and fight again, we can see a team fight vs Jack now and then we can see him 1v1 whoever you guy's want in your fantasy to showcase that person's growth (mines Zoro). If it is Zoro I bet you Jack will not last days. Maybe hours. Then he will just become food for Zoro after. Like gohan stripping off that dinosaur's tail in dbz. Sounds tasty already.

 

[kcd]

I think it might possibly be the fact that Jack has very high recovery speed. So okay he can get defeated by Zunisha and once he gets fished otut he recovers and pops up elsewhere and be good to fight again. It isn't unheard of in the One Piece world. Luffy literally use meat and food as sensu beans. We see it time and time again. I think he wanted meat after Nico Robin rescued him after Crocodile stabbed him thru the guts then dried him up. And the time after his hormone trestment in impel down lol... Maybe other characters do it in other ways. Oda may never show this but Cat and/or Dog might have KOed Jack but he just come back in a few days somewhat recovered and used agent orange on the minks since he knows he will get KOed again if he didn't. That will keep him relevant. He can come back later and fight again, we can see a team fight vs Jack now and then we can see him 1v1 whoever you guy's want in your fantasy to showcase that person's growth (mines Zoro). If it is Zoro I bet you Jack will not last days. Maybe hours. Then he will just become food for Zoro after. Like gohan stripping off that dinosaur's tail in dbz. Sounds tasty already.

Well said.
He's a zoan, so that explains why he recovers quickly.

As long as he can't heal like Marco, he can be defeated in hours by attacks above his endurance threshold.
IMO, I think a King Kong gun would knock him unconcious, and take him out of commission for at least few hours.

 

[M3J]

Listen to me. I’m not saying Jack’s endurance or pain threshold is low.
I’m only debunking the ideology that someone that can fight for days is automatically more dangerous than someone who doesn’t.

I’ll ask a question and leave it to you to decide.
What do you think about this matchup: “Jack vs serious White Beard” ???

Against WB, I think that days would be reduced to mere hours... so that logic of: “But, he can last for five days” is flawed.

Anyways, If after this, you still think he would last days against Whitebeard or any Emperor, then there’s nothing I’ll say that would change your mind.

It's up to you really.

I understand that, but you're also claiming that Luffy has a chance to beat Jack just because of threshold.

Whitebeard is an Emperor, he's on a way higher level. We're talking about Luffy/Katakuri/Zoro vs. Jack, all four who haven't shown to be on Whitebeard or Akainu's level. Whitebeard has a devil fruit that could deal significant amount of damage, whereas Luffy and others probably don't have that advantage. Plus, Jack could be one of the very few non-Emperor who could last that long against Whitebeard, which would make him pretty dangerous.

Despite Katakuri's ability to predict and avoid attacks, what use is that if he can't hurt Jack and is likely to get tired out before Jack? If Luffy fights him, then how is he going to win if he can't hurt Jack or tire him out? while you're right that being able to last for days fighting doesn't make someone automatically more dangerous, your point weakens if that person is known to take hits after hits and still fight regardless of "threshold."

 

[kcd]

I theorized before that those zoans are forcefully awakened.... they've lost all their human side and allowed the Devil in the fruit to take over. It is analogous to Chopper's original 3rd rumble ball behavior, where he becomes a huge monster, most likely the highest level of a DF ability and loses complete control.
Thats probably yhe same scenario with the Impel down prisoners... Their human personalities have completely disappeared and the monsters are awakened.

This makes sense.

Despite Katakuri's ability to predict and avoid attacks, what use is that if he can't hurt Jack and is likely to get tired out before Jack? If Luffy fights him, then how is he going to win if he can't hurt Jack or tire him out? while you're right that being able to last for days fighting doesn't make someone automatically more dangerous, your point weakens if that person is known to take hits after hits and still fight regardless of "threshold."

Bruh

Last chapter showed us that Jack can be hurt. He was slashed open by Shutenmaru, and was coughing up blood.

Are you trying to say that Katakuri or maybe luffy's KKG won't do shit to Jack?

Come on! Stop overestimating him.
I don't recall Cat and Dog ever hurting him.
It's true he's got resilience and stamina, but how long do you think he will last if his defenses are bypassed several times?

Whitebeard is an Emperor, he's on a way higher level. We're talking about Luffy/Katakuri/Zoro vs. Jack, all four who haven't shown to be on Whitebeard or Akainu's level. Whitebeard has a devil fruit that could deal significant amount of damage, whereas Luffy and others probably don't have that advantage.

Exactly, at least we're on the same page here. Against someone like Whitebeard, it's almost certain he won't last days hours. More especially now that even Shutenmaru can slash him open and have him coughing up blood.

Plus, Jack could be one of the very few non-Emperor who could last that long against Whitebeard, which would make him pretty dangerous.

You think Jack would last days against Whitebeard???

If Jack can manage that feat, then F**K KAIDO, Jack should be a YONKO.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

This makes sense.


Bruh

Last chapter showed us that Jack can be hurt. He was slashed open by Shutenmaru, and was coughing up blood.

Are you trying to say that Katakuri or maybe luffy's KKG won't do shit to Jack?

Come on! Stop overestimating him.
I don't recall Cat and Dog ever hurting him.
It's true he's got resilience and stamina, but how long do you think he will last if his defenses are bypassed several times?


Exactly, at least we're on the same page here. Against someone like Whitebeard, it's almost certain he won't last days hours. More especially now that even Shutenmaru can slash him open and have him coughing up blood.


You think Jack would last days against Whitebeard???

If Jack can manage that feat, then F**K KAIDO, Jack should be a YONKO.

Lol he got flipped by catviper... that is doing damage too... most of the damage Luffy took vs Katakuri was from being hit into walls and grounds

 

[afromarco005]

Lol he got flipped by catviper... that is doing damage too... most of the damage Luffy took vs Katakuri was from being hit into walls and grounds

bruh do you even one piece ? Luffy takesno damage from hitting walls and the ground it's been established since day 1

 

[Drakrami]

How can you be knocked out in five minutes if you can take blows and still fight for five days? Being capable of fighting for days means a lot if you can last that long and not collapse. Ace and Jinbei may not be the strongest, but they're pretty strong, and we know Akainu and Aokiji are extremely strong, and all four can take blows and still fight.

We literally have no way to gauge any of their strength, it's all just assumptions likely based on what we want to believe.

No.... I'm saying Jack has shown endurance.

We saw Jack go up against multiple strong members of the Marines and still survive to go back to Zou. So far, there's no reason to believe that he's weaker than Katakuri or would lose to Luffy.

lol are you trying to argue luffy is not stronger than jack? Come on, Luffy has moved on to the next league. He is now directly challenging Kaido, a yonkou this arc and will beat him. Do you think this manga will never end? The story is moving forward with the reverie reveal and such.

You are like those people who argued that Luffy is not stronger than Doflamingo.. The story already moved way past that. Luffy > Dogtooth > Jack >>>>>> Doflamingo.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Okay enough hype with Jack. Yes he's got some durability and he's a Yonko commander (I believe right hand man was the word used) but come on in actual combat, he's not as good as Katakuri period. If this chapter hasn't confirmed it then I wonder what will (perhaps a quick loss to Luffy - in less than 5 hours - and that's thanks to his durability).

Just kidding

Still, IMO I don't see Jack been capable of defeating Luffy or even Cracker.
Even if it was down to bounties, it was surely proven in the Manga that his brutality got him a significant sum of that 1billion – just like a certain pirate with ego all over the place drying up somewhere in Kaido's dungeon – whereas Katakuri is the real deal (bounty and all).

And since it has been long established that as long as you can't touch your opponent, you stand no chance of victory. How can anyone say that the dumb idiot Jack could even match the glory that is Katakuri. One of the very few to prove mastery over all 3 forms of Haki and not to mention the most superior form of CoO in OPverse plus a DF ability that makes Luffy's look second rate. I could go on...

But I'll sum it up with this funny comment from way back in this thread:

"We have seen enough of Jack to conclude he's nowhere near Katakuri or even Cracker, calamity my ass. 4th time we are seeing his ass being whooped - 1st vs cat and dog, 2nd vs zunisha, 3rd vs marines, 4th vs random samurai, can he do anything at all?"


To that question I say: Yes, he can endure.


Not to be rude... I've been a long observer of this forum and I have to say it's been a huge loss with HP gone. Some of his endeavours throughout the WCI arc were gold.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

bruh do you even one piece ? Luffy takesno damage from hitting walls and the ground it's been established since day 1

Lol so the times he hits walls and coughs up blood are there for effect??
Duely noted.
Hes able to take damage from hiting things after being kicked, but it’s not the same amount as someone without DF. Imagine saying when Katakuri close lined him into the ground he took no damage. That will be a very silly conclusion.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2018 ---

Okay enough hype with Jack. Yes he's got some durability and he's a Yonko commander (I believe right hand man was the word used) but come on in actual combat, he's not as good as Katakuri period. If this chapter hasn't confirmed it then I wonder what will (perhaps a quick loss to Luffy - in less than 5 hours - and that's thanks to his durability).

Just kidding

Still, IMO I don't see Jack been capable of defeating Luffy or even Cracker.
Even if it was down to bounties, it was surely proven in the Manga that his brutality got him a significant sum of that 1billion – just like a certain pirate with ego all over the place drying up somewhere in Kaido's dungeon – whereas Katakuri is the real deal (bounty and all).

And since it has been long established that as long as you can't touch your opponent, you stand no chance of victory. How can anyone say that the dumb idiot Jack could even match the glory that is Katakuri. One of the very few to prove mastery over all 3 forms of Haki and not to mention the most superior form of CoO in OPverse plus a DF ability that makes Luffy's look second rate. I could go on...

But I'll sum it up with this funny comment from way back in this thread:

"We have seen enough of Jack to conclude he's nowhere near Katakuri or even Cracker, calamity my ass. 4th time we are seeing his ass being whooped - 1st vs cat and dog, 2nd vs zunisha, 3rd vs marines, 4th vs random samurai, can he do anything at all?"


To that question I say: Yes, he can endure.


Not to be rude... I've been a long observer of this forum and I have to say it's been a huge loss with HP gone. Some of his endeavours throughout the WCI arc were gold.

While your post has been fully fleshed out and I do believe that jacks durability is being overhyped, I just have to say that we have not see A fully fleshed out fight of Jack like we did with Luffy and Katakuri. So it’s a biased/unfair assumption.

Jack is stupid, but going up against three admiral level characters was too much for him was all we was told. We didn’t hear anything about the context of his loss. Somehow he managed to escape the marines as well. So goes to show, they probably tried to end him but he saw he was out of his own depth.

Against dog and cat. We saw he was on the lower end at the start but he managed to keep up for 5days, while they got to rest. So you can imagine why people will assume he can last longer.


So what am I saying here??
Jack is strong and saying he’s weaker than cracker is a bit of an insult to him lol...
All he needs is his mammoth form to run through the Damn biscuit soldiers.

Just my opinion

 

[afromarco005]

Lol so the times he hits walls and coughs up blood are there for effect??
Duely noted.
Hes able to take damage from hiting things after being kicked, but it’s not the same amount as someone without DF. Imagine saying when Katakuri close lined him into the ground he took no damage. That will be a very silly conclusion.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2018 ---

While your post has been fully fleshed out and I do believe that jacks durability is being overhyped, I just have to say that we have not see A fully fleshed out fight of Jack like we did with Luffy and Katakuri. So it’s a biased/unfair assumption.

Jack is stupid, but going up against three admiral level characters was too much for him was all we was told. We didn’t hear anything about the context of his loss. Somehow he managed to escape the marines as well. So goes to show, they probably tried to end him but he saw he was out of his own depth.

Against dog and cat. We saw he was on the lower end at the start but he managed to keep up for 5days, while they got to rest. So you can imagine why people will assume he can last longer.


So what am I saying here??
Jack is strong and saying he’s weaker than cracker is a bit of an insult to him lol...
All he needs is his mammoth form to run through the Damn biscuit soldiers.

Just my opinion

In my opinion, the damage comes from the haki imbued attacks of katakuri.

When he hits walls and the floor, because of the internal damage and the force of the projection/impact the blood comes out like pressing on a sponge thats how I always understood it

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

In my opinion, the damage comes from the haki imbued attacks of katakuri.

When he hits walls and the floor, because of the internal damage and the force of the projection/impact the blood comes out like pressing on a sponge thats how I always understood it

Lol that is the most stretched explanation to him being immune to damages. You are all over estimating the durability given to Luffy.
Yeah he’s more durable to blunt attacks, but he doesn’t have immunity.

In his fights vs Katakuri, there were attacks that we can’t be certain he used Coa on.
And why did Jinbe fee the need to save him when Katakuri wanted to kick drop him at the party?
He still takes damage, just not as much. Apply any physics/biology to it. When an object impacts something immovable the force reverberates round the objects body, and with energy having no were to go, the body of the object meet the immovable one takes damage.

If Luffy received KKG like he punched Doffy, he won’t just take damage from the punch. The impact will damage him.

Going by your explanation, he spits up blood due to his internal organs not being able to with the impact. The blood are nicely packed in vessels, so any for of bleedingnis due to internal rupture. And in my book this is a damage. So Luffy sponge effect or not, does take damage.