Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
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We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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Would fighting Pica's gigantic statue be so different for Sanji than fighting Wadatsumi? Although Pica's regeneration is an issue, and I'm not sure what strategy he would use.
The reason I think Vergo is the same or weaker than Pika is because of Pikas DF’s destruction is really OP. But I think without the DF Pika would lose. And whether people like it or not, Luffy > Zolo > Sanji. They may seem close but nope Zolo is higher than Sanji. I’m not a Zolo or Sanji fan but i think Zolo is stronger than Sanji. I don’t see Dressrosa Sanji beating Pika or Vergo or even Smoker.
True, but Haki can get around his stone body especially if you can get around as all you need to do is detect him and force him in an corner. Don't think Vergo would go down at all from his attacks especially he moves VERY slow in his stone state, so it cost him since Vergo can move faster as seen. So don't think Zoro will have the same time with Vergo compare to Pica as both them fight differently and Vergo is more revere more by Doffy as well being more close up, so nothing says he would defeat him. Sanji would beat them just fine as Pica he will aim more for the target while breaking stones since his COO is one of the best around.
Vergo when he is 100%, he could have take him down if the fight prolong as like him, he can harden his body as well. It already mention Sanji wasn't 100% fighting him before, but to still hold his own in that state, means if he was, he would have defeated him later on. Smoker kinda similar to same thing as Smoker won't last long in a fight with him. He isn't a DF user, so he can't use same fighting style with Sanji as with others, so it could take off his momentum to which Sanji still place above him in the end.
Idk, Sanji now has a bounty higher than Zoro and his latest feat he defeated an Yonko high-tier member being Page One of the Top 6 Headliners while Zoro was having trouble with Hawkins who isn't even in Top 6 Headliners, so far they are still equal, but bit more Sanji being stronger one here until further notice on who they face down next.
Would fighting Pica's gigantic statue be so different for Sanji than fighting Wadatsumi? Although Pica's regeneration is an issue, and I'm not sure what strategy he would use.
He probably aim for the head than stall with stones he easily can break down. Sanji been known as a smart fighter, so knowing him while he can easily damage the stones, he know he is wasting time and locate Pica faster with his COO and corner him to defeat him for good.
Would fighting Pica's gigantic statue be so different for Sanji than fighting Wadatsumi? Although Pica's regeneration is an issue, and I'm not sure what strategy he would use.
Yeah because Pica can go into rocks and stones and has their hardness on top of his haki whereas Wadatsumi isn't hard or has haki, so he's easier to beat. Pica can't regenerate, but he was also running away from Zoro whereas he'd probably be fighting Sanji. Not sure how Sanji even with hardening would fare against Pica.
Highly doubt it. Law beating him was due to DF and Haki and we know how OP the fruit is. Zoro will get in more trouble as Vergo is built more combat and can harden even more than him at the time. Don't think he can do much on his end.
If Vergo's hardening is superior to Pica's, then I don't know if Zoro could win or at least, have an easy time. Law probably would have lost if he didn't have his devil fruit.
I still think Zolo could best Vergo maybe with some difficulty (doubt it) but still. Sanji vs Page One was off screen so we can be for sure who won or if Sanji ran away or Page 1. So let’s not assume Sanji won until it’s been confirmed they both were equal in my opinion. Hawkins vs Zolo, I’m sure Zolo would’ve won with high difficulty.
Btw, whose stronger, Bege, or Sanji? I don’t see Sanji beating Beges castle.
I think both Sanji and Vergo wouldnt be able to defeat Pica, they just lack means to drive him out of his stone form, Sanji especially with his low level of destructive abilities.
Zoro on the other hand, would rekt Vergo same way he rekt that frog swordsman on Fishman Island. Vergo wouldnt be able to kill his boredom.
I think Bege is heavily underestimated, I think many would have trouble to deal with him.
If he can reduce in size anything that approaches him he could be near invincible but Oda will probably never do that, even tho it's literally doable with his DF.
You claim to be a Sanji fan but you want him to fight a guy that fractured one of his leg. When will you care?
Until he fractures another?
They went for a clash of kicks and Sanji fractures one leg. If that isn't clearly Oda hinting"outclassed and outmatched" I don't know what is.
Sanji would have best him then since it was confirmed then he does have Haki to harden body both invisible and visible kind that been confirmed by Luffy.
Luffy never explicitly said that Sanji hard hardening. Just that he had Haki as he mentioned Zoro too.
Zoro has confirmed and showcased his hardening Sanji hasn't.
You keep bringing up the fact that Sanji has a higher bounty. Why won't he? He's fresh from a major arc not featuring Zoro and you expect that to matter.
Wait until you see Zoro in full action as well. You are ready to give excuses to Sanji for not having the upper hand in a fight that wasn't concluded but when it comes to Zoro vs Hawkins, you aren't ready to do the same.
I can see why this Zoro vs Sanji BS has no end. One set of fans are so focused on the heroism of their beloved character and are not ready to acknowledge the other where it matters.
Are you saying Zoro couldn't defeat Vergo someone who is on the same level with Pica LOL
Pica is a physical fighter he was fighting with a sword against Zoro but Zoro is just way abouve him thats why you dont see him as such.
Pica, Trebol, Diamante and Vergo are fodder to Zoro, are you really reading the same story as the rest of us?
Are you saying Zoro couldn't defeat Vergo someone who is on the same level with Pica LOL
Pica is a physical fighter he was fighting with a sword against Zoro but Zoro is just way abouve him thats why you dont see him as such.
Pica, Trebol, Diamante and Vergo are fodder to Zoro, are you really reading the same story as the rest of us?
Where did Doflamingo stated they were equals? He said clearly in PH he was his 'right-hand man'. Pica wasn't said to be in that position at all. Just because Pica and others knew Doffy from childhood and are his 4 top commanders, doesn't mean they are same lvl. Pica wasn't a physical fighter at all. Have you seen him fight? He use DF than use his own body. Don't compare him to Vergo lvl as Pica soon run away throughout the arc from Zoro seeing he can't win physically with him. Nothing proves he was the strongest as never said that.
The others, yeah, Vergo no. He was on another lvl with his Haki and such. You got to learn to accept things as they are.
I still think Zolo could best Vergo maybe with some difficulty (doubt it) but still. Sanji vs Page One was off screen so we can be for sure who won or if Sanji ran away or Page 1. So let’s not assume Sanji won until it’s been confirmed they both were equal in my opinion. Hawkins vs Zolo, I’m sure Zolo would’ve won with high difficulty.
Btw, whose stronger, Bege, or Sanji? I don’t see Sanji beating Beges castle.
Zolo couldn't beat him at that time at all. I don't see it as Pica wasn't a good example he could face a physical fighter like him. I think your overhyping on the situation when their fight was a cat-mouse thing. Wasn't back and forth like his Enies Lobby fight of his.
Sanji did defeat him as it said by Law and Sanji they can't afford him being running around and spreading the word about them. So Idk why you even doubt that when context is clear on the conditions Sanji have to succeed in beating him down. Nah, kinda put Sanji above more as Zolo have trouble when Hawkins wasn't even trying. If they were to fight, perhaps Zolo could have win, but it be much harder for him compare for Sanji's fight with Page One. Meaning for him to struggle more with someone not even Top 6 Headliner, shows that Sanji is stronger than him. We have to wait and see on what Zolo would do in his next fight to keep up and not fall behind.
Sanji. Again Idk where you get the fact Bege can pose a challenge to him. If your saying maybe inside himself since Bege control his body from the inside, I can see being a challenge, but outside Bege is not much threat to Sanji as he beat him in a lot of stats with ease.
Where did Doflamingo stated they were equals? He said clearly in PH he was his 'right-hand man'. Pica wasn't said to be in that position at all. Just because Pica and others knew Doffy from childhood and are his 4 top commanders, doesn't mean they are same lvl. Pica wasn't a physical fighter at all. Have you seen him fight? He use DF than use his own body. Don't compare him to Vergo lvl as Pica soon run away throughout the arc from Zoro seeing he can't win physically with him. Nothing proves he was the strongest as never said that.
The others, yeah, Vergo no. He was on another lvl with his Haki and such. You got to learn to accept things as they are.
Where did i say Doffi said anything?
never was it said it the story that Vergo is his right hand man!
Trebol states they are, who are you to say otherwise?
Did you forget he was fighting Zoro with his sword?
He ran because he didnt want to get one shot by a supernova like Vergo!
Who said he was the strongest?
Show me how he was on another level than the rest, Trebol and Pica have better feats than him vs a supernova, Vergo got OHKO just because he was beating Sanji dont think he is all that, compared to the supernovas he is nothing but fodder!
You claim to be a Sanji fan but you want him to fight a guy that fractured one of his leg. When will you care?
Until he fractures another?
They went for a clash of kicks and Sanji fractures one leg. If that isn't clearly Oda hinting"outclassed and outmatched" I don't know what is.
Luffy never explicitly said that Sanji hard hardening. Just that he had Haki as he mentioned Zoro too.
Zoro has confirmed and showcased his hardening Sanji hasn't.
You keep bringing up the fact that Sanji has a higher bounty. Why won't he? He's fresh from a major arc not featuring Zoro and you expect that to matter.
Wait until you see Zoro in full action as well. You are ready to give excuses to Sanji for not having the upper hand in a fight that wasn't concluded but when it comes to Zoro vs Hawkins, you aren't ready to do the same.
I can see why this Zoro vs Sanji BS has no end. One set of fans are so focused on the heroism of their beloved character and are not ready to acknowledge the other where it matters.
You claim to be a One Piece fan and yet you choose to ignore how Usopp got his head taken off by Mr. 4 and Ms. Groundhog Day which fractured his skull even more than Sanji leg getting hit. In real life, that kills someone, but instead Usopp got right back up and won the fight with Chopper. Then we have Harjudan who fought with Machisve to the point of breaking his bones more heavily than either Sanji and Usopp, but look what happen. Who won in the end? Harjudan as he still defeat him in the end.
Where you get the claim if Sanji continues he get defeated? He kept fighting still after the hit even with the SAME (Emphasizing, not yelling) leg. How you think Sanji won't do the impossible possible after those fights with Usopp and Harjudan is baffling. Also it's not the first time a struggle fight look dire for a character and they pull through in the end. For example Luffy vs Katakuri many said he won't win, and again look what happened. LUFFY WON (Emphasizing). You got to be more open-minded than just see things on looking dire when it wasn't. If Oda wanted to insert more Sanji will be defeated more, his bone getting fractured won't be enough since breaking your bone means nothing in OP for long time. Instead both fighters continue until poison gas came and Vergo was the one who left, not Sanji. He is the type of guy to go down fighting, not run or give up. Your underestimation is really lacking on why when there so much to show he could have done it.
Pretty sure they can go all the way by his words and since now both 'visible' show it, it proves when they have Haki, they have it all, not certain stages.
So far Zoro doing nothing and Sanji still fighting, so Idk where your getting Zoro have done stuff when he hasn't since losing to Hawkins while Sanji just defeated a Top 6 Headliner who is more threat than Hawkins who isn't member of the faction. Listen, if you don't like Sanji, it's fine, but be honest and stop making your own excuses on ignoring crucial facts. Be more fair than this.
Well you continue by posting and I wasn't even the one who brought the two up on how they compete as you can talk to albertwv since he brought in the talk and discuss about the feats of both characters. Just saying to you.
Where did i say Doffi said anything?
never was it said it the story that Vergo is his right hand man!
Trebol states they are, who are you to say otherwise?
Did you forget he was fighting Zoro with his sword?
He ran because he didnt want to get one shot by a supernova like Vergo!
Who said he was the strongest?
Show me how he was on another level than the rest, Trebol and Pica have better feats than him vs a supernova, Vergo got OHKO just because he was beating Sanji dont think he is all that, compared to the supernovas he is nothing but fodder!
He said it in PH Arc. Look back on Doffy talking to him in transponder snail as it was in the arc on how much he regard him and his position. Just because Trebol and them are close to Doffy and he see them as Top 4 commanders in the crew doesn't mean they were equals in power. That shows on who beat them individually in their fights.
So? He isn't a swordsman or even a good one for that matter. If you want a close up fight, look at Zoro vs Kaku and look at Pica vs Zoro, he ran the moment he lost advantage and thus isn't even close to Vergo in physical fight in that case. Pica is dangerous with DF for sure, but can be taken down once corner his real body.
Trebol has not better feats and Pica if your counting the stone, not really. Just because he has more destruction power, doesn't mean he is the strongest as he isn't to Doflamingo despite becoming a giant stone creature. Sanji hold his own with Vergo and it was a tie. He never beat him, but did beat Smoker, but more so trying get Law's heart in the end who Law got the final blow on him. Vergo is true fighter who face more multiple people before going down in the end while Pica got Zoro and ran away multiple times in the fight before being later force to confront him head-on and lose easily. You can't compare them at all especially as close combat fighter as it's clear Pica wasn't never that strong physically than him if he choose to run away majority of his fights.
He said it in PH Arc. Look back on Doffy talking to him in transponder snail as it was in the arc on how much he regard him and his position. Just because Trebol and them are close to Doffy and he see them as Top 4 commanders in the crew doesn't mean they were equals in power. That shows on who beat them individually in their fights.
So? He isn't a swordsman or even a good one for that matter. If you want a close up fight, look at Zoro vs Kaku and look at Pica vs Zoro, he ran the moment he lost advantage and thus isn't even close to Vergo in physical fight in that case. Pica is dangerous with DF for sure, but can be taken down once corner his real body.
Trebol has not better feats and Pica if your counting the stone, not really. Just because he has more destruction power, doesn't mean he is the strongest as he isn't to Doflamingo despite becoming a giant stone creature. Sanji hold his own with Vergo and it was a tie. He never beat him, but did beat Smoker, but more so trying get Law's heart in the end who Law got the final blow on him. Vergo is true fighter who face more multiple people before going down in the end while Pica got Zoro and soon went down on his own.
You can't compare them at all especially as close combat fighter as it's clear Pica wasn't never that strong physically than him if he choose to run away majority of his fights.
NOPE never said it, its just your imagination running wild again!
Pica is good its just that he was up against someone that much stronger, or are you now going to say Luffy is weak cause he got OHKO by Kaido?
Trebol has better feats than Vergo what feat does Vergo have? getting OHKO by Law?
Why can you compare them and i cant?
Pretty sure they can go all the way by his words and since now both 'visible' show it, it proves when they have Haki, they have it all, not certain stages.
Of course Sanji should have hardening but it's not been confirmed by the Manga that he has it. That's expected if he's to keep up with Zoro which is also what the Raid Suit is for.
Now you are jumping into conclusion that Sanji defeated Pageone when there's possibility he didn't.
Who's been unfair?
You seem to have a key hole 1 dimensional view when it comes to Sanji, so much so that you can't accept the fact that he underperforms in certain areas even when he does.
Yet when it comes to any SH other than Sanji, you are ready to see things fairly - hmmm...
Usopp getting a win over someone who nearly cracked his skull doesn't make him stronger than that person. In fact Usopp is usually weaker than most opponents he's pitted against. Him getting the win doesn't make him stronger. Same applies to Sanji who in his case didn't get to finish his battle with Vergo (thankfully) cos I truly didn't see any way he could win. If his major mode of offence is damaged early on then that only spells doom.
And what in the world am I hearing? Sanji stronger than Bege? Okay this is bordering on absurdity.
Bege is able to tank multiple punches from an angry BM in his castle form. A feat Sanji cannot bare to accomplish.
Plus he's a Supernova. The most ballsy Pirates in the New World which Sanji isn't part of for very clear reasons.
You guys need to stop this ridiculous hyping of Sanji it's just getting outrageous at this point.
