One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[goldb]

He can't be. He's yet to split the skies and heavens

You can't say that he's not YET to do something but also say that he can't be at that yonko level because of it. That's contradictory.

We don't know that he can't and we also don't know his true strength in comparison to the likes of Shanks and other yonko. The pieces of information we have aren't enough in my opinion to truly make a sound argument on this.

One thing that I will say is that Mihawk is a lone pirate by choice and became a Shichibukai all the same. We know that being considered a yonko is not a fact solely based on one's own strength but also how formidable your crew and sphere of influence is.

 

[M3J]

Same can be applied to Whitebeard jr but no one is claiming Yonko level for him either. He's at best as strong as the most powerful YCs. That's the best of I can do for Mihawk right now. We need actual feats to make any claim so let's sit and watch then. His showtime is nigh.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2020 ---

You're welcome

If you're talking about MH members, it's because it's them and they shouldn't be taken too seriously. Their name of the game is to ignore or deny something that they don;t like.

If character, then probably because Junior doesn't have a territory or a big crew? Mihawk doesn't seem to have any aspiration but to uphold his title as the World's Greatest Swordsman and seek out challenges, and Junior is being directed by his mom to find Whitebeard's riches.

You can't say that he's not YET to do something but also say that he can't be at that yonko level because of it. That's contradictory.

We don't know that he can't and we also don't know his true strength in comparison to the likes of Shanks and other yonko. The pieces of information we have aren't enough in my opinion to truly make a sound argument on this.

One thing that I will say is that Mihawk is a lone pirate by choice and became a Shichibukai all the same. We know that being considered a yonko is not a fact solely based on one's own strength but also how formidable your crew and sphere of influence is.

I think he was joking

 

[Shasha23]

... The title literally says Swordsman, which does not answer my question. It does reveal you have no good argument though, when you have to resort to "omg fanboying" and not having proof behind your answer.

Yeah sure i guess the logical thing to do is say the WSS is inferior to another swordsman right.......................
Yeah NO i would rather not use nonsensical logic id rather use manga information to back up my claims unlike what your doing now

 

[nik87]

In which of those stats is Mihawk better than Shanks?

Let us see:
Mihawk has a black blade, which is most likely a proof of unparalleled CoA, Shanks doesnt.
Mihawk's original nickname was supposed to be Clairvoyant but since Shichibukai got animal theme it was changed to Hawk-eye, which suggests good CoO while Shanks has no hype around it. Also, Shanks has many scars while Mihawk has none that we know of, sounds like that also supports CoO for Mihawk.
Mihawk is called world STRONGEST swordsman so his physical strength is also above Shanks.
Speed is a stat we have nothing really on both and could be comparable thanks to the duels they had between each other.
CoC is one stat that goes into Shanks favor since Mihawk hasnt shown that he has it but that one stat favoring Shanks, so far, doesnt absolutely nothing.

"Overall combat" favoring Shanks is just a fabrication of the fandom.

He didn't need to. Smiling in the face of pain/death is no small feat. Ask the true Ds lol.
Perospero also lost a limb but you'll definitely not see a panel of him smiling afterwards - and in his case his DF ability helped him mitigate the blood loss and overall effect. That was enough in solidifying Peros as been strong and persistent.

It is not a combat feat like Whitebeards, you are giving it too much attention.
Zoro's Nothing Happened is superior to Shanks 10 times over, I am not using it as his combat feat...

The hawk eye nickname has nothing to do with his Haki as far as we know.
Did you not notice the colour of Mihawk's eyes? The most unique in the whole OnePieceverse of course his nickname is a surprisingly related to his CoO.
I bet his boots also hype him up as an ex-military legend

Shanks hair must be renowned for its blood loss since he's nicknamed "Red hair".

His original nickname Clairvoyant implies good observation as well as his current one. Shanks has many scars, Mihawk none. Guess who observes better?

Mihawk never fought Shanks (who obviously became more powerful) as a Yonko cos the timeline shows that Shanks became Yonko just 6 years from now when Luffy was 13.
Meanwhile, Shanks was still below Yonko level when he initially lost his arm several years before that while Luffy was still 7.

It changes nothing, unless you believe only Shanks grew since their duels and Mihawk remained the same?

Ability & skill Mihawk is the best swordsman. In overall power & strength vague terms that include a lot of other aspects especially One Piece. There are many stronger than him..such as the Yonkou...

It is not just ability and skill, Oda never singled it out and excluded anything, it is a fan fabrication. You can literally see Zoro increasing his overall power and strength and Haki and focusing the least in his sword skill which remains the same from the start of the series.
He can use Asura, it is not excluded from the battle between swordsmen. He can fight with his fists and kick with his legs, it is not excluded. DF's arent excluded either. World's Strongest Swordsman is superior to the swordsman opponent no matter what set of abilities and tricks they bring to the table.

 

[Fox666]

Mihawk's original nickname was supposed to be Clairvoyant but since Shichibukai got animal theme it was changed to Hawk-eye, which suggests good CoO

That was just a concept. There's no evidence Mihawk has any ability like that in the actual manga. Going by his fight against Luffy in Marineford, he's called Hawk-eye because of his incredibly eyesight.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hawkins is based on Mihawk earlier designs, but the author dropped the idea because if would appear that Mihawk was the strongest swordman because of some weird special ability, as opposed to actual swordsmanship.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

That was just a concept. There's no evidence Mihawk has any ability like that in the actual manga. Going by his fight against Luffy in Marineford, he's called Hawk-eye because of his incredibly eyesight.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hawkins is based on Mihawk earlier designs, but the author dropped the idea because if would appear that Mihawk was the strongest swordman because of some weird special ability, as opposed to actual swordsmanship.

I keep telling him the same but he insists Mihawk has great CoO that has not been shown. Fancy logic.
Preposterous!

 

[Holt]

Mihawk is called world STRONGEST swordsman so his physical strength is also above Shanks.

You can't use this though, unless you're implying the title is in reference to physical strength (which has no correlation with skill or ability)

 

[nik87]

You can't use this though, unless you're implying the title is in reference to physical strength (which has no correlation with skill or ability)

Well, what does the word Strongest mean to you? The skillest, the prettiest sword moves, the fastest sword swinger? Hint: Look at Zoro's training.

 

[Holt]

Well, what does the word Strongest mean to you? The skillest, the prettiest sword moves, the fastest sword swinger? Hint: Look at Zoro's training.

What does it mean to you? Because as far as I know, you're saying it both means he is the superior fighter and the physical stronger one.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2020 ---

If we're taking strongest literally, then it refers to physical strength and that doesn't imply best/most powerful

 

[nik87]

What does it mean to you? Because as far as I know, you're saying it both means he is the superior fighter and the physical stronger one.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2020 ---

If we're taking strongest literally, then it refers to physical strength and that doesn't imply best/most powerful

It means all of it. Nr1 among the swordsmen cannot afford to lack in any of those stats, especially not physical strength which was the only thing Zoro has been training aside from Haki, the entire pre-TS in fact.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

It means all of it. Nr1 among the swordsmen cannot afford to lack in any of those stats, especially not physical strength which was the only thing Zoro has been training aside from Haki, the entire pre-TS in fact.

What are you talking about?
The little girl who bested Zoro lacked physical strength, doesn't change the the fact that she's the stronger swordsman.
Bend it all you want WSS has nothing to do with any other thing but swordsmanship.

Tashigi is physically weak but she's able to defeat many stronger men with the use of swords alone.
World Strongest Swordsman is a title for the best sword user. No other stat matters mate.

The only reason we don't have a World strongest Trident user Bisento user or Club user is because very few people make use of these weapons. Sword usage is a staple in one piece especially now in Wano. Hence the title.

 

[Holt]

It means all of it. Nr1 among the swordsmen cannot afford to lack in any of those stats, especially not physical strength which was the only thing Zoro has been training aside from Haki, the entire pre-TS in fact.

This doesn't follow and you know it. Not lacking in those stats is something that makes more sense even though it isn't strictly true, but being No1 doesn't mean you're the best in every stat. Not entirely sure why you are placing emphasis on Zoro's training. Zoro isn't Mihawk. It's entirely possible Zoro was lacking in strength department and that's what he needed to train. Zoro uses 3 swords, something that is apparently unique to him. Mihawk has no skills to teach him since he uses a single blade. Also, Zoro has always noticeable been a power user, Brook commented as much. Mihawk during his introduction was shown deflecting bullets with soft touch by using the tip of his blade. Also, you're implying that Zoro is already as skilled or matching Mihawk in every other stat besides physical strength

 

[M3J]

Yeah sure i guess the logical thing to do is say the WSS is inferior to another swordsman right.......................
Yeah NO i would rather not use nonsensical logic id rather use manga information to back up my claims unlike what your doing now

Yawn. Show me where I said Mihawk was inferior to another swordsman instead of making up things I say and using your horrible logic.

So, when are you going to use manga info to back up your claims, then? I'm waiting.

Let us see:
Mihawk has a black blade, which is most likely a proof of unparalleled CoA, Shanks doesnt.
Mihawk's original nickname was supposed to be Clairvoyant but since Shichibukai got animal theme it was changed to Hawk-eye, which suggests good CoO while Shanks has no hype around it. Also, Shanks has many scars while Mihawk has none that we know of, sounds like that also supports CoO for Mihawk.
Mihawk is called world STRONGEST swordsman so his physical strength is also above Shanks.
Speed is a stat we have nothing really on both and could be comparable thanks to the duels they had between each other.
CoC is one stat that goes into Shanks favor since Mihawk hasnt shown that he has it but that one stat favoring Shanks, so far, doesnt absolutely nothing.

"Overall combat" favoring Shanks is just a fabrication of the fandom.

And yet Mihawk still considered Shanks a rival until Shanks lost an arm.
Shanks isn't going to get much hype anyway. Whitebeard was stated to have Future Sight, but he never got hype around that. We also know Shanks was sailing ever since he was a kid, so he could have gotten scars before he was strong enough to defend himself against most opponents. We also know Shanks isn't confrontative, as per the first arc, so he could have let people attack him to calm them down.
Debatable, as Swordsman follows Strongest.

I keep telling him the same but he insists Mihawk has great CoO that has not been shown. Fancy logic.
Preposterous!

Dunno, he was able to follow Luffy's movements effortlessly.

 

[nik87]

What are you talking about?
The little girl who bested Zoro lacked physical strength, doesn't change the the fact that she's the stronger swordsman.
Bend it all you want WSS has nothing to do with any other thing but swordsmanship.

Tashigi is physically weak but she's able to defeat many stronger men with the use of swords alone.
World Strongest Swordsman is a title for the best sword user. No other stat matters mate.

The only reason we don't have a World strongest Trident user Bisento user or Club user is because very few people make use of these weapons. Sword usage is a staple in one piece especially now in Wano. Hence the title.

What was the reason why that same little girl started to cry, lol? Because she said women are naturally weaker sex and that she could never keep up and fall behind inevitably...

There are plenty of snipers but no title of World's Strongest Sniper because strength plays no role in sniping while it does in sword duels.

This doesn't follow and you know it. Not lacking in those stats is something that makes more sense even though it isn't strictly true, but being No1 doesn't mean you're the best in every stat. Not entirely sure why you are placing emphasis on Zoro's training. Zoro isn't Mihawk. It's entirely possible Zoro was lacking in strength department and that's what he needed to train. Zoro uses 3 swords, something that is apparently unique to him. Mihawk has no skills to teach him since he uses a single blade. Also, Zoro has always noticeable been a power user, Brook commented as much. Mihawk during his introduction was shown deflecting bullets with soft touch by using the tip of his blade. Also, you're implying that Zoro is already as skilled or matching Mihawk in every other stat besides physical strength

I am not implying that Zoro is as skilled as Mihawk. To be nr1 you cannot neglect any important stat, you dont have to be best in every single one of them but you cant be far behind your opponent because you will simply be outclassed.

And yet Mihawk still considered Shanks a rival until Shanks lost an arm.
Shanks isn't going to get much hype anyway. Whitebeard was stated to have Future Sight, but he never got hype around that. We also know Shanks was sailing ever since he was a kid, so he could have gotten scars before he was strong enough to defend himself against most opponents. We also know Shanks isn't confrontative, as per the first arc, so he could have let people attack him to calm them down.
Debatable, as Swordsman follows Strongest.

Dont get me wrong, Shanks is good, very good but not as good as Mihawk, at least after he lost his arm which is why Mihawk no longer considers him a worthy challenge.
Mihawk sailed young too, we dont know if he has even a single scar from battles.

 

[Holt]

I am not implying that Zoro is as skilled as Mihawk. To be nr1 you cannot neglect any important stat, you dont have to be best in every single one of them but you cant be far behind your opponent because you will simply be outclassed.

This contradicts what you said earlier. You initially said the Mihawk is the worlds "Strongest" so that means his physical strength > Shanks. I then said you can't give double meaning to the WSS while trying to justify Mihawk > Shanks. Anyway, there's not much more to say here.

 

[nik87]

This contradicts what you said earlier. You initially said the Mihawk is the worlds "Strongest" so that means his physical strength > Shanks. I then said you can't give double meaning to the WSS while trying to justify Mihawk > Shanks. Anyway, there's not much more to say here.

Strength is pretty important stat and the title implies Mihawk>Shanks in strength, it just happens that other stats also follow.
Neither of the 3 World's Strongest title holders has a low Strength stat.
There are people with exceptional one or two stats and very bad in other, for example, Elizabello II but that is not the case with either of the 3 WSx.

 

[M3J]

Dont get me wrong, Shanks is good, very good but not as good as Mihawk, at least after he lost his arm which is why Mihawk no longer considers him a worthy challenge.
Mihawk sailed young too, we dont know if he has even a single scar from battles.

Since Mihawk was a kid?

Can you prove that one-armed Shanks isn't as good as Mihawk?

 

[nik87]

Since Mihawk was a kid?

Well, we have him as 18 years old at Roger's execution and VC says that he was established name before Great Age of Piracy...

Can you prove that one-armed Shanks isn't as good as Mihawk?

WSS title doesnt belong to him and Mihawk considers him not worthy anymore?

 

[M3J]

That's a young adult, not a kid. Luffy was also an established name before he was 20, but he didn't become a pirate when he was a kid.

Mihawk doesn't want to fight against Shanks because he thinks Shanks is at a disadvantage, which can lead one to assume Shanks is weaker even if he didn't get any weaker.

 

[nik87]

Mihawk doesn't want to fight against Shanks because he thinks Shanks is at a disadvantage, which can lead one to assume Shanks is weaker even if he didn't get any weaker.

It would be weird that Mihawk doesnt want to fight Shanks IF Shanks is still a worthy challenge while wishing for somebody to surpass Shanks...