One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Good enough for people that dont respect Zoro's character. Thankfully true fans of Zoro know he would never kill someone already defeated, which the only way Zoro is able to get a clean hit in. Or if he's distracted by a true threat like Luffy.

Let me worry about my respect for Zoro's character after he kills Kaido.

 

[goldb]

Let me worry about my respect for Zoro's character after he kills Kaido.

What do you base your prediction of Zoro killing Kaido on?

Help in his defeat sure, I can see that happening, and though being a swordsman makes him the most bloodthirsty of his crew mates, I think it'd be uncharacteristic of him to do so. It doesn't serve as any development for him.

I mostly say that because they're our heroes, I don't believe Oda will want to show them in that light. So if Kaido were to die, I believe one of his many enemies or something else will cause for it to be so.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Let me worry about my respect for Zoro's character after he kills Kaido.

We have a forum member on here who claims to predict the future with 100% accuracy as things pertain to one piece. You remind me of him. Your theories are baseless and seriously belong in the crazy theories thread of this forum as it pertains to Zoro.

Zoro has yet to show he is even above a YC3 and to claim he would kill a defenseless Kaido is just far too much for people to take you seriously.

You dont realize how insulting it is to have Zpro kill someone already defeated or obviously disadvantaged? You think Zoro would sneak attack Kaido while he's distracted?

These are all poor qualities Zoro has never once show to be capable of.

Looking back at old discussions, you used to have really great and well thought out discussions, what happened to that?

 

[jaymizzo]

We have a forum member on here who claims to predict the future with 100% accuracy as things pertain to one piece. You remind me of him. Your theories are baseless and seriously belong in the crazy theories thread of this forum as it pertains to Zoro.

Zoro has yet to show he is even above a YC3 and to claim he would kill a defenseless Kaido is just far too much for people to take you seriously.

You dont realize how insulting it is to have Zpro kill someone already defeated or obviously disadvantaged? You think Zoro would sneak attack Kaido while he's distracted?

These are all poor qualities Zoro has never once show to be capable of.

Looking back at old discussions, you used to have really great and well thought out discussions, what happened to that?

This is up there with Zoro following someone who is weaker than him... Loving a character is great, but going so far as to try and tarnish the actual character to match with ones own cannon is just meh to see.

 

[nik87]

These are all poor qualities Zoro has never once show to be capable of.

You obviously dont know Zoro anywhere close to how well I know him... However, it is really boring to explain to people over and over the entire manga Zoro related just because they refuse the possibility that Zoro might do something Luffy cant... Not poor qualities whch Zoro has already shown. Hint: TB.

What do you base your prediction of Zoro killing Kaido on?

Help in his defeat sure, I can see that happening, and though being a swordsman makes him the most bloodthirsty of his crew mates, I think it'd be uncharacteristic of him to do so. It doesn't serve as any development for him.

I mostly say that because they're our heroes, I don't believe Oda will want to show them in that light. So if Kaido were to die, I believe one of his many enemies or something else will cause for it to be so.

Let's start with the point that I think that Kaido has to die. Defeat and prisons, as well as executions have not stopped that monster before and they wont stop him now either. The best of all, his wish is to die and who better than Zoro to grant him that wish?
I dont think Zoro will help in his defeat, I dont think that he will even participate in that fight since he will be busy with King most likely, his one and only purpose will be to do what no one else managed in 20 years:

While Zoro has slain a western dragon, just like Ryuma, he could end up slaying an eastern dragon above the capital, just like Ryuma. The legend of second Ryuma already being born is pointed out in a OP magazine vol.5:

What beef does Zoro have with Kaido? Nothing so far but if Luffy gets in trouble and is about to get killed Zoro doesnt scare away from doing what is necessary to protect him, as he already has done before. In mythology the Dragon(Kaido) and the Tiger(Zoro) are depicted as two animals who oppose each other, the Tiger challenges the Dragon to restore the balance...

In this arc, Zoro is far more important than Luffy, the roles are reversed, Luffy is only the muscles, a role that usually belongs to Zoro but in Wano, Zoro is the one who is involved with the inhabitants more than anyone despite having half the panel time compared to Luffy(counted for first two acts I think). He is the one who met the princess of the arc, which usually Luffy does, he brought the national treasure back into the country which symbolizes the freeing of Wano compared to dark times of Wano coming after that national treasure was stolen.

Zoro has parallels with both Oden and Ryuma and he will finish what Oden couldnt - kill Kaido and will replicate what Ryuma already did and he might even be his descendant if it turns out that his parents could be Shimotsuki. Also, Luffy never killed anyone and neither does he have means to kill Kaido which is not the case with Zoro who has to tools to kill him and has killed before.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You obviously dont know Zoro anywhere close to how well I know him... However, it is really boring to explain to people over and over the entire manga Zoro related just because they refuse the possibility that Zoro might do something Luffy cant... Not poor qualities whch Zoro has already shown. Hint: TB.



Let's start with the point that I think that Kaido has to die. Defeat and prisons, as well as executions have not stopped that monster before and they wont stop him now either. The best of all, his wish is to die and who better than Zoro to grant him that wish?
I dont think Zoro will help in his defeat, I dont think that he will even participate in that fight since he will be busy with King most likely, his one and only purpose will be to do what no one else managed in 20 years:

While Zoro has slain a western dragon, just like Ryuma, he could end up slaying an eastern dragon above the capital, just like Ryuma. The legend of second Ryuma already being born is pointed out in a OP magazine vol.5:

What beef does Zoro have with Kaido? Nothing so far but if Luffy gets in trouble and is about to get killed Zoro doesnt scare away from doing what is necessary to protect him, as he already has done before. In mythology the Dragon(Kaido) and the Tiger(Zoro) are depicted as two animals who oppose each other, the Tiger challenges the Dragon to restore the balance...

In this arc, Zoro is far more important than Luffy, the roles are reversed, Luffy is only the muscles, a role that usually belongs to Zoro but in Wano, Zoro is the one who is involved with the inhabitants more than anyone despite having half the panel time compared to Luffy(counted for first two acts I think). He is the one who met the princess of the arc, which usually Luffy does, he brought the national treasure back into the country which symbolizes the freeing of Wano compared to dark times of Wano coming after that national treasure was stolen.

Zoro has parallels with both Oden and Ryuma and he will finish what Oden couldnt - kill Kaido and will replicate what Ryuma already did and he might even be his descendant if it turns out that his parents could be Shimotsuki. Also, Luffy never killed anyone and neither does he have means to kill Kaido which is not the case with Zoro who has to tools to kill him and has killed before.

Luffy doesnt kill his enemies... it's not a matter of him being unable to.

I personally don't care what Zoro does to Kaido after Luffy defeats him... it wont gain anyone respect... Wont gain him notoriety... Won't advance his character in any way. Luffy who ACTUALLY defeats Kaido gets the respect/renown/and development.

Killing someone already defeated is trash.

Zoro is better than that. You have admitted your bias for Zoro. So by definition you cannot truly appreciate him as his own character because you will always choose to view him in a biased way. You could never understand him more than I, because to you he can do no wrong. You can't truly respect something if you cant see their flaws or breaks in character.


You stopped understanding Zoro along time ago buddy.

 

[nik87]

I personally don't care what Zoro does to Kaido after Luffy defeats him... it wont gain anyone respect... Wont gain him notoriety... Won't advance his character in any way. Luffy who ACTUALLY defeats Kaido gets the respect/renown/and development.

When did I say that Kaido will be defeated when Zoro is about to kill him?

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is up there with Zoro following someone who is weaker than him... Loving a character is great, but going so far as to try and tarnish the actual character to match with ones own cannon is just meh to see.

Who do you think is stronger? Jinbe or Zoro?

Sorry off topic lol but just had to ask since I want to talk about something else lol

 

[nik87]

Who do you think is stronger? Jinbe or Zoro?
Sorry off topic lol but just had to ask since I want to talk about something else lol

Zoro without a doubt.

 

[jaymizzo]

Who do you think is stronger? Jinbe or Zoro?

Sorry off topic lol but just had to ask since I want to talk about something else lol

At this moment I think Jinbei is stronger than Zoro.

But the structure should change since Zoro is the first mate to something like this:
Luffy - Yonko
Zoro - YC1/1st mate
Jinbei - YC2
Sanji - YC3

Saying that, I don't wish for Jinbei to fight a BP commander, rather someone from the BM pirates like Smoothie or assist whoever is fighting BM. I think Jack is reserved for Neko and Ina while Kings and Queen will inevitably be Zoro and Sanji (with or without help).

Would be such a troll from Oda if Jinbei fought King while Sanji and Zoro tag teamed Queen

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2020 ---

Luffy doesnt kill his enemies... it's not a matter of him being unable to.

I personally don't care what Zoro does to Kaido after Luffy defeats him... it wont gain anyone respect... Wont gain him notoriety... Won't advance his character in any way. Luffy who ACTUALLY defeats Kaido gets the respect/renown/and development.

Killing someone already defeated is trash.

Zoro is better than that. You have admitted your bias for Zoro. So by definition you cannot truly appreciate him as his own character because you will always choose to view him in a biased way. You could never understand him more than I, because to you he can do no wrong. You can't truly respect something if you cant see their flaws or breaks in character.


You stopped understanding Zoro along time ago buddy.

I know you want to change subject and it's necessary at this point but I dont understand Niks need to create parallels that don't exist.

Oden is basically Luffy, they share the most similarities. The only thing Oden shares with Zoro is a sword. Not characteristics, not personality, ability to gather allies, sense of direction etc. Dude is literally Luffy as a more naive swordsman.

 

[M3J]

Killer, Diamante, Pica, Shiryu, Jack, Cracker, Moriah, Big Mom, Shiki, Pedro, Squard, Niji

How is Pica dirty? Or Killer? Or any of them? I'm asking about swordsmen that don't fight with honor.

Diamante might be though.

We haven't seen him fight though, we just assume he is dirty. He was jailed for being too sadistic for Impel Down, which had torture levels. I'm sure with his new invisibility he'll use that, maybe some swordsmen will consider it dirty.

I don't think they will, Zoro most likely won't. He'll just see it as a challenge, and same with Mihawk.

 

[Pirate Queen]

At this moment I think Jinbei is stronger than Zoro.

But the structure should change since Zoro is the first mate to something like this:
Luffy - Yonko
Zoro - YC1/1st mate
Jinbei - YC2
Sanji - YC3

Saying that, I don't wish for Jinbei to fight a BP commander, rather someone from the BM pirates like Smoothie or assist whoever is fighting BM. I think Jack is reserved for Neko and Ina while Kings and Queen will inevitably be Zoro and Sanji (with or without help).

Would be such a troll from Oda if Jinbei fought King while Sanji and Zoro tag teamed Queen

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2020 ---

I know you want to change subject and it's necessary at this point but I dont understand Niks need to create parallels that don't exist.

Oden is basically Luffy, they share the most similarities. The only thing Oden shares with Zoro is a sword. Not characteristics, not personality, ability to gather allies, sense of direction etc. Dude is literally Luffy as a more naive swordsman.

I agree lol. Jinbe definitely stronger at this point. Zoro just hasnt proven himself yet. Even less so than Sanji. Jinbe brings a whole different dynamic to the SH's and it really is great to bring us out of our "comfort" zone an reassess the crews temporary heirarchy.


It's weird that Zoro has the 4th highest bounty at this point lol

It will definitely changes at the end of the arc, but for now I wonder how matchups work out now

 

[HereNThere]

I really would've preferred if Robin and Kiku fought Smoothie, but she's most likely Jinbe's opponent. They're abilities match up with each other in an interesting way and they have a bit of a connection with Jinbe being a former member of her crew. Either way, it is good because we would finally get a decent fight from her and get a good idea of where Jinbe stands among the top tiers.

Jinbe's certainly got more clout that Zoro at this point. The former has shown enough power take a blow from Big Mom and then knock her off of the Sunny soon after. The latter has shown...nothing. Zoro has hype and a weapon that could cut Kaido, but he hasn't done anything with either yet.

By the end of the arc, everything should settle back to the usual hierarchy...well, sans Luffy. Jinbe will probably slide in under Sanji who will remain under Zoro. And, as usual, it will be a marginal difference in strength. Contrary to his lackluster portrayal, Oda still keeps the chef relevant and in close proximity with Luffy and Zoro. He never gets the fights they do, but Oda always slips in little moments for him to show he hasn't fallen out of rank with the other two. I think that dynamic will remain even with Jinbe's addition.

 

[hokageji]

So far, Jinbei >>>> Zoro... dare i say Jinbei ~= Luffy, maybe slightly lower...

I think of all the strawhats, Jinbei is definitively YC level.... I am sure Zoro will reach a higher level eventually, but at this point its JInbei.

 

[Fox666]

How is Pica dirty? Or Killer? Or any of them? I'm asking about swordsmen that don't fight with honor.

Diamante might be though.

Pica attacked the people who were already unconscious. Killer attacked Zoro when he was distracted, also the Kid Pirates are despicable.

So far, Jinbei >>>> Zoro... dare i say Jinbei ~= Luffy, maybe slightly lower...

I think of all the strawhats, Jinbei is definitively YC level.... I am sure Zoro will reach a higher level eventually, but at this point its JInbei.

Yeah. Luffy must have surpassed Jinbe after his victory over Katakuri, or after his training in Udon. That's why Jinbe only joined now.

Luffy has always been the strongest. When he learned Gear 2, the difference from Zoro and Sanji increased. Then it increased even more after Gear 4.

 

[XXGenesis]

Understand when Fans says Zoro is YC Lv, it's a lot of reference to the hype of Zoro's steentght via plot. Zoro has dispatched his foes with little effort or no close contest. Pica was notably weaker with a troublesome ability, Killer was owned with his own scythe & hit a distracted Zoro...Also Zoro was shown to resist an Admiral...His Hype Pre-Wano is already around Doffy Lv/G4 Luffy(which is YC lv)..

Give Zoro Enma...Dont be mad...He's YC Lv..lml

As for Jimbei..Yes with feats and imo pre Enma, Jimbei was stronger than Zoro. But I dont think that will last long. Zoro will surpass Jimbei with his fight,.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And despite all Jinbe has accomplished, we've never seen him in a 1v1 all out fight. More skirmishes than anything.

It will be exciting to see.

 

[M3J]

I really would've preferred if Robin and Kiku fought Smoothie, but she's most likely Jinbe's opponent. They're abilities match up with each other in an interesting way and they have a bit of a connection with Jinbe being a former member of her crew. Either way, it is good because we would finally get a decent fight from her and get a good idea of where Jinbe stands among the top tiers.

Jinbe's certainly got more clout that Zoro at this point. The former has shown enough power take a blow from Big Mom and then knock her off of the Sunny soon after. The latter has shown...nothing. Zoro has hype and a weapon that could cut Kaido, but he hasn't done anything with either yet.

By the end of the arc, everything should settle back to the usual hierarchy...well, sans Luffy. Jinbe will probably slide in under Sanji who will remain under Zoro. And, as usual, it will be a marginal difference in strength. Contrary to his lackluster portrayal, Oda still keeps the chef relevant and in close proximity with Luffy and Zoro. He never gets the fights they do, but Oda always slips in little moments for him to show he hasn't fallen out of rank with the other two. I think that dynamic will remain even with Jinbe's addition.

How strong is Smoothie though? And is she strong enough to deal with Jinbei's water style, being a devil fruit user herself?

Pica attacked the people who were already unconscious. Killer attacked Zoro when he was distracted, also the Kid Pirates are despicable.

Pica's goal was to impede the Straw Hats, was it not? Or was he attacking the people to distract Zoro?
Killer was not acting of his own accord either, he was forced to do Orochi or Kaidou's bidding.

 

[HereNThere]

How strong is Smoothie though? And is she strong enough to deal with Jinbei's water style, being a devil fruit user herself?

Given her ranking in Big Mom's crew as a Commander, she should be fairly formidable. That alone should garner Jinbe a decent jump in respect and threat level.

She should be. Fishman Karate doesn't outright cancel devil fruit abilities. Plus I doubt the fight would take place in the water.

 

[M3J]

Given her ranking in Big Mom's crew as a Commander, she should be fairly formidable. That alone should garner Jinbe a decent jump in respect and threat level.

She should be. Fishman Karate doesn't outright cancel devil fruit abilities. Plus I doubt the fight would take place in the water.

I wanna know how strong though, I feel like Jinbei is too high a level for her that it'd be a wasted fight, as Jinbei is pretty strong, strong enough to fend off Big Mom and still survive.

I know, and I doubt it would either, but doesn't Jinbei have the ability to use water in the air to deal damage? That's what I was thinking of/meant. Fishman karate doesn't cancel devil fruit abilities, but it should prevent the fruit user from tanking the damage or becoming intangible. Didn't Jinbei hurt Luffy on Fishman Island, and Luffy was surprised?