One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

Lmfao CircleJerk!!....I feel you. I'm moving on after this.

Yonkou are stronger than Admirals; True
1 Yonkou Crew < Entire Navy; True
WB crew got owned. Go refresh your Memory.

@albertwv. It's a fact and consensus.

As for Boa Hancock. Her DF powers primarily is what makes her so damn strong base skills aside...VA's & lower are getting petrified via Lust/Won't counter W/Pain. Then she she basically has physical petrification...So yea Boa is a problem...I Say V3 lv, slightly under because DF, nerfed she only goes so far physically.

 

[thedude]

I suppose you were replying to me?
Anyways, we don't accuse others that they are "out of their mind" here.

Especially because everything you have written has already been debunked by me and you don't tackle this at all. I could give even more arguments, such as that only Lons, Lacroix and John Giant were defeated on the Marines side, and that's it, but we circlejerk around this every second month ever since Marineford and I don't think it is worth the effort anymore.

The thoughtline of 1 Yonko crew equaling the entire World Government is nonsense and cannot be proven via the Manga at all.

I'm not going to continue this - but on the WB side, his crew only got hurt trying to rush to his aid when he was having his heart attacks. Jozu and Marco were perfectly fine. Vista remained unhurt. Had Jozu and Marco fought uninterrupted we don't know how those fights would have went. The majority of WB's crew was perfectly fine after the fight as well (Jozu is the only one we didn't see still standing fine in terms of commanders. He was frozen, maybe lost an arm, hope we see him again someday!)

The marines needed all their admirals, all the warlords, all the Pacifista who were as strong as Kuma essentially. They needed the fight on their turf, where their advantage was magnified (walls that could even block WB's quakes!). And despite all of this, they still needed for it to be a near death WB pre-fight to win!

I'm not saying a Yonko could actually destroy the marine's. But that fight only showed how much the WG feared them, and how tough a battle would be, and why they don't try to take out the Yonko.

I'll go a step further. If the WG tried to invade Totto land with all their ships and admirals, they'd lose. On someone elses turf, I don't see them winning at all.

 

[McNuss]

I'm not going to continue this - but on the WB side, his crew only got hurt trying to rush to his aid when he was having his heart attacks. Jozu and Marco were perfectly fine. Vista remained unhurt. Had Jozu and Marco fought uninterrupted we don't know how those fights would have went. The majority of WB's crew was perfectly fine after the fight as well (Jozu is the only one we didn't see still standing fine in terms of commanders. He was frozen, maybe lost an arm, hope we see him again someday!)

Neither Marco nor Jozu nor Vista dealt any significant damage vs the Admirals. Marco's and Vista's Haki imbued attack were shrugged of by Akainu like child's play.

And Jozu did lose his arm, he was shown with two arms at the funeral in Jump but it was corrected in the volume.

The marines needed all their admirals, all the warlords, all the Pacifista who were as strong as Kuma essentially. They needed the fight on their turf, where their advantage was magnified (walls that could even block WB's quakes!). And despite all of this, they still needed for it to be a near death WB pre-fight to win!

Aside from Kuma, all Warlords were just contributing the absolute minimum.

Hancock, Blackbeard and Jinbe are traitors.
Mihawk and Doflamingo never went serious.
Moria is irrelevant without shadows.

Garp and Sengoku didn't lift a finger for 90% of the war.

Pacifista are no way as strong as Kuma, Kuma himself did prove that on Sabaody.

Pacifista are weaker than Pavlik. In other words all Haki users can defeat them easily, because Haki is the only explanation on how someone like Pavlik can one-shot a Pacifista with his gun, whereas the entire Strawhats greatly struggled with a single one, despite defeating Crocodile and Moria before, who, as Shishibukai, definitely have to be stronger than Pavlik.

I'm not saying a Yonko could actually destroy the marine's. But that fight only showed how much the WG feared them, and how tough a battle would be, and why they don't try to take out the Yonko.

I'll go a step further. If the WG tried to invade Totto land with all their ships and admirals, they'd lose. On someone elses turf, I don't see them winning at all.

Well, the US could definitely destroy North Korea. Why won't they do that?

It's just not worth the effort. If you dedicate all your resources to that cause, other spots would be wide open for attacks. Kaido and Blackbeard would definitely take advantage.

But if the entire Marines invade Totto Land, they would win without major difficulties.

 

[thedude]

Haki pre timeskip doesn't work compared to post time skip, so that point is worthless. Oda clearly hadn't fleshed out what it could and could do. Vista sliced Akainu's neck open, he does that today and Akainu is toast.


If the marines could win without major difficulties, then they'd take people out. If they invade Totto land, they wouldn't have the advantages they needed to use to beat White Beard.

I mean, at least if you want to talk like this say they'd win with high difficulty...lol, "without major difficulties" goes against everything the manga has actually shown.

 

[M3J]

Neither Marco nor Jozu nor Vista dealt any significant damage vs the Admirals. Marco's and Vista's Haki imbued attack were shrugged of by Akainu like child's play.

ANd when did Marco and Jozu get significant damage without being cuffed by seastone? From what I recall, until they got distracted, they were doing just fine.

Not to mention, Whitebeard didn't join the fight until way later, in his old and sick age as others have pointed out. He took damage after damage that he didn't heal from, unlike Akainu and others, and still kept fighting.

But like I said few posts ago somewhere in this section, Luffy and his group's involvement probably made all the difference and switched the favor over to Whitebeard.

 

[HereNThere]

A single Yonkou's crew wouldn't be able to destroy the entirety of the Marines. They are just too many of them and they would eventually lose in a war of attrition. And they have the backing of the WG, so they have the resources to keep going.

A single Yonkou's crew is still a significant enough of a threat that they were confronted with the Marines' high tiers as well as the Shichibukai to deal with them and their allies.

I also doubt the Marines could invade a Yonkou's territory. Again, unless they bring every marine on the sea, they are going to be met with major losses. They aren't capable of doing such a thing because it would probably cripple them. Even if they did win, all they'd accomplish is taking out one yonkou. There are three more after them who'd probably be gunning for the territory the other one lost, which is what happened after Whitebeard died. And the marines couldn't do anything about that.

 

[thedude]

A single Yonkou's crew wouldn't be able to destroy the entirety of the Marines. They are just too many of them and they would eventually lose in a war of attrition. And they have the backing of the WG, so they have the resources to keep going.

A single Yonkou's crew is still a significant enough of a threat that they were confronted with the Marines' high tiers as well as the Shichibukai to deal with them and their allies.

I also doubt the Marines could invade a Yonkou's territory. Again, unless they bring every marine on the sea, they are going to be met with major losses. They aren't capable of doing such a thing because it would probably cripple them. Even if they did win, all they'd accomplish is taking out one yonkou. There are three more after them who'd probably be gunning for the territory the other one lost, which is what happened after Whitebeard died. And the marines couldn't do anything about that.

Right, agree with this. I don't think a single Yonko crew could topple the entire WG/Marines. But they are a big enough threat that the marines take massive planning to beat 1 near death already Yonko, and even after all that planning, HIS ENTIRE CREW LEAVES ALIVE AND UNHARMED (save for Jozu...). If they could "beat them no difficulty", you'd think they'd do more damage to the crew...and yet...

Hell, the marines are reduced to buying weapons off of a Yonko in Wano. That's how strong they are! lol

 

[XXGenesis]

Idk what Marineford War ppl read or watched...WB crew got they ass handed to them....Literally watched it 3days ago. Smh

WB had to rally his troops countless times; The Whole momentum was created by Luffy

3 separate Admirals were able to Rally the Marines over and over. VA's still up and standing only the Giants got owned.

When did WB crew ever have an advantage?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 19, 2020 ---

Right, agree with this. I don't think a single Yonko crew could topple the entire WG/Marines. But they are a big enough threat that the marines take massive planning to beat 1 near death already Yonko, and even after all that planning, HIS ENTIRE CREW LEAVES ALIVE AND UNHARMED (save for Jozu...). If they could "beat them no difficulty", you'd think they'd do more damage to the crew...and yet...

Hell, the marines are reduced to buying weapons off of a Yonko in Wano. That's how strong they are! lol

Shanks another Yonkou's appearance ended the war. VIA WB Crew gets to walk away...Was Luffy not about to be killed even after that still?

 

[HereNThere]

They were both basically at a deadlock before Luffy arrived. By that point, the Shichibukai took out Oars and WB took out a masked giant. When WB got shanked by Squad, then morale started to drop and stuff began to go south.

But it wasn't because the crew was weaker than the Marines, it was because the crew was overly concerned about WB's health. Everyone of them became distracted as he got worse throughout the fight. That's why Marco and Jozu got hit.

While the Marines held the home field advantage, it was clear that WB was keeping up with their plans and attempts to out maneuver him. Sengoku even pointed it out several times. Both had tricks up their sleeves. WB rallied his crew, I think only once. The rest of the time he was giving basic orders on how to proceed.

Luffy was integral because he shined at a key point when WB's health failed and WB made the wise decision to support Luffy in the final run.

And had Ace actually kept his cool, the War would've ended in WB's crews victory, since their goal was to save Ace, not destroy the Marines.

 

[nik87]

If Weevil is as strong as prime Whitebeard, is he the WSM since WB died?

 

[Holt]

Idk what Marineford War ppl read or watched...WB crew got they ass handed to them....Literally watched it 3days ago. Smh

WB had to rally his troops countless times; The Whole momentum was created by Luffy

3 separate Admirals were able to Rally the Marines over and over. VA's still up and standing only the Giants got owned.

When did WB crew ever have an advantage?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 19, 2020 ---

Shanks another Yonkou's appearance ended the war. VIA WB Crew gets to walk away...Was Luffy not about to be killed even after that still?

For starters, WB went to rescue Ace not defeat the marines. The primary objective was never forgotten and that's why instead of a straight up brawl, Sengoku and WB were playing chess. Almost anything that happened pre-luffy arriving was a skirmish or low-level tier fight. As eefrit mentioned, WB stabbed by squard (which was also tactics btw) affected the WBPs. Says a lot about the marines that they needed to use such underhand methods to try and get a sick WB (it was even Akainu that did that if I'm not mistaken). When Luffy arrived with his gang, the war took another turn. WB eventually ordered everyone to back Luffy up and as seen, they actually succeeded in rescuing Ace which was their mission (although admittedly, Garp let luffy through). After that, the WBPs were to retreat and WB cut them off, in hopes of wrecking things and taking as much as possible down with him. Ace got hasty and died to Akainu and even that happened because Luffy was baggage and needed to be protected. After WB and Ace died, the WBPs were a lost cause. Lack of concentration, grieving, and the fact that their captain and one of their commanders were off the board made it impossible for them to do anything anymore. And even with that, they left the war relatively okay (save Jozu I think). BB and his crew were on the scene too, so everything was absolute chaos. All sides would have taken major damage tbh.

WB's plan was to do the minimum required to rescue Ace, then send of his crew while he stays back and decimates as much as possible. Things would be different if he was leading the charge and moving his crew to straight-up fight.

 

[XXGenesis]

Circle jerking hasn't stopped lol. Think everyone just wants their point to be hurd. Confused as to which or what point ppl are trying to make.

Proof is in the Pudding. End result.
Ace died. WB died.

Marines > Single Yonkou.

Changing topic. Last Era was named WhiteBeard. So WB rlly was the strongest Yonkou, who had no malignant or grandeur plans; Just wanted to sail the ocean with his Sons; Seems like didnt care for Lin Lin or Kaidou acquiring or gathering much power becoming Emperors themselves.

 

[Holt]

Circle jerking hasn't stopped lol. Think everyone just wants their point to be hurd. Confused as to which or what point ppl are trying to make.

Proof is in the Pudding. End result.
Ace died. WB died.

Marines > Single Yonkou.

Changing topic. Last Era was named WhiteBeard. So WB rlly was the strongest Yonkou, who had no malignant or grandeur plans; Just wanted to sail the ocean with his Sons; Seems like didnt care for Lin Lin or Kaidou acquiring or gathering much power becoming Emperors themselves.

But of course the WG > Single Yonko. That much is obvious, especially factoring in the shichibukia. The WG is just a slightly larger Yonko crew. With their full force, they would likely defeat any single Yonko crew, but it would cost so much that they would lose hard to another. Things weren't as bad for them (or the WBs either) because they weren't strictly warring. WB was also in worse conditions than any other Yonko imo. That's also why things would not go so smoothly if they face off against a healthy Yonko crew at the moment in a straight-up battle (especially with no Shichibukai now).

 

[M3J]

The Marines honestly had a lot of things working in their favor in the war, even after Luffy's group joined, mainly Whitebeard's sickness. Marco didn't get handcuffed and injured until he was distracted by Whitebeard coughing, and if it weren't for Blackbeard, then Whitebeard could have done more damage before dying.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

The Marines honestly had a lot of things working in their favor in the war, even after Luffy's group joined, mainly Whitebeard's sickness. Marco didn't get handcuffed and injured until he was distracted by Whitebeard coughing, and if it weren't for Blackbeard, then Whitebeard could have done more damage before dying.

Also imaging Kaidou arriving instead of Shanks. Marines would be over

 

[M3J]

Unless the Marines and Blackbeard team up to take on Kaidou, but I don't see any of them sparing the remnants of Whitebeard pirates. Then again, I'm not sure, but Blackbeard would likely still retreat.

 

[HereNThere]

Kaido and his crew would've most certainly attacked everyone in sight. There's no way WB's crew would've made it out of that jam.

 

[XXGenesis]

I

But of course the WG > Single Yonko. That much is obvious, especially factoring in the shichibukia. The WG is just a slightly larger Yonko crew. With their full force, they would likely defeat any single Yonko crew, but it would cost so much that they would lose hard to another. Things weren't as bad for them (or the WBs either) because they weren't strictly warring. WB was also in worse conditions than any other Yonko imo. That's also why things would not go so smoothly if they face off against a healthy Yonko crew at the moment in a straight-up battle (especially with no Shichibukai now).

Agree with many of your points.

So let's talk WG & Marines. I dont think many understand their power.

Marines arent just slightly bigger than Yonkou Crews. They are the World's Military. They can draft ppl to fight for them from 20 different Kingdoms. Via Greenbull & Fujitora Drafted Admirals (outsourced). They have stations in every corner of the World. East,West,Blue,North..Grand line.

They have a science division lead by Vegapunk who developed replicated Kizaru's laser ability, turned Kuma into a cyborg/andriod, created the Pacifista's & the new unseen upgraded models, Marine Battleships that can cross the calm belt, & learned a way to combine DF & inatinate objects via spandam's sword.

Marines are controlled by 5 Elders, the avatars of IM. They have CP 0-9 & most likely other assassins capable of deploying to erase threats. They also previously established a relationship with the warlords, where their dogs. I.E. Marineford.

As for Admirals, they have 4..Had 5.

Sengoku is Admiral lv. He's def above YC1
Garp is Admiral lv.

Fleet Admiral + 3 Admirals
Giant Squad of VA'S
tsuru, Mononga, Spider guy, & Dog mask dude VA's stronger than Vergo & Smoker.

They are stacked.






.

 

[McNuss]

ANd when did Marco and Jozu get significant damage without being cuffed by seastone? From what I recall, until they got distracted, they were doing just fine.

Not to mention, Whitebeard didn't join the fight until way later, in his old and sick age as others have pointed out. He took damage after damage that he didn't heal from, unlike Akainu and others, and still kept fighting.

But like I said few posts ago somewhere in this section, Luffy and his group's involvement probably made all the difference and switched the favor over to Whitebeard.

The argument doesn't work with an exception. Getting distracted was their own fault, it's a weakness the Admiral's have not shown.

Well Mr. 3 got further than any Whitebeard Pirate...

Right, agree with this. I don't think a single Yonko crew could topple the entire WG/Marines. But they are a big enough threat that the marines take massive planning to beat 1 near death already Yonko, and even after all that planning, HIS ENTIRE CREW LEAVES ALIVE AND UNHARMED (save for Jozu...). If they could "beat them no difficulty", you'd think they'd do more damage to the crew...and yet...

Hell, the marines are reduced to buying weapons off of a Yonko in Wano. That's how strong they are! lol

No, they didn't leave all unharmed. Little Oars Jr. is probably dead or at least crippled. Curiel was knocked out, as were a bunch of people from Luffy's group: Ivankov, Inazuma, Jinbe, Daz Bones and Luffy himself. They also lost their flagship, Moby Dick.

On the Marines side, only John Giant, Lons and Lacroix were defeated, two of these by Whitebeard himself.

The scores are in favor of the Marines, no matter how you put it.

The Whitebeard Pirates got stomped, they failed their objective and lost their captain, and as a consequence of that, all of their territories were taken by Blackbeard and most of their allies captured by Weevil.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

Haki pre timeskip doesn't work compared to post time skip, so that point is worthless. Oda clearly hadn't fleshed out what it could and could do. Vista sliced Akainu's neck open, he does that today and Akainu is toast.

Katakuri did the same thing as Akainu. It's not a Retcon but foreshadowing. They dodge by shaping their body.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020 ---

I


Agree with many of your points.

So let's talk WG & Marines. I dont think many understand their power.

Marines arent just slightly bigger than Yonkou Crews. They are the World's Military. They can draft ppl to fight for them from 20 different Kingdoms. Via Greenbull & Fujitora Drafted Admirals (outsourced). They have stations in every corner of the World. East,West,Blue,North..Grand line.

They have a science division lead by Vegapunk who developed replicated Kizaru's laser ability, turned Kuma into a cyborg/andriod, created the Pacifista's & the new unseen upgraded models, Marine Battleships that can cross the calm belt, & learned a way to combine DF & inatinate objects via spandam's sword.

Marines are controlled by 5 Elders, the avatars of IM. They have CP 0-9 & most likely other assassins capable of deploying to erase threats. They also previously established a relationship with the warlords, where their dogs. I.E. Marineford.

As for Admirals, they have 4..Had 5.

Sengoku is Admiral lv. He's def above YC1
Garp is Admiral lv.

Fleet Admiral + 3 Admirals
Giant Squad of VA'S
tsuru, Mononga, Spider guy, & Dog mask dude VA's stronger than Vergo & Smoker.

They are stacked.






.

Just to point out, they can draft from over 100 countries, 20 are just the founding members, and I think the 50 (?) most powerful gather in Levely.

 

[thedude]

The argument doesn't work with an exception. Getting distracted was their own fault, it's a weakness the Admiral's have not shown.

Well Mr. 3 got further than any Whitebeard Pirate...


No, they didn't leave all unharmed. Little Oars Jr. is probably dead or at least crippled. Curiel was knocked out, as were a bunch of people from Luffy's group: Ivankov, Inazuma, Jinbe, Daz Bones and Luffy himself. They also lost their flagship, Moby Dick.

On the Marines side, only John Giant, Lons and Lacroix were defeated, two of these by Whitebeard himself.

The scores are in favor of the Marines, no matter how you put it.

The Whitebeard Pirates got stomped, they failed their objective and lost their captain, and as a consequence of that, all of their territories were taken by Blackbeard and most of their allies captured by Weevil.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2020 ---

Katakuri did the same thing as Akainu. It's not a Retcon but foreshadowing. They dodge by shaping their body.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2020 ---

Just to point out, they can draft from over 100 countries, 20 are just the founding members, and I think the 50 (?) most powerful gather in Levely.

Totally disagree on Katakuri and Akainu. They stopped him with haki. They cut into his body, his cut was not moving lava around, it was a clear cut down his neck. I don't even know why this is a debate. Pre-timeskip haki was barely used, post time skip it's the key in every fight. Did WB and the admirals not know how to use it? The admirals did use it once, to block an earthquake. But since that time, we've seen every high level fighter use it at all times. haki pre timeskip is just not the same.