One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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Fox666

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I wouldn't be surprised if Kaido cannot break Mihawk "strongest sword". We heard he's indestructible, not that he can destroy anything. However, Mihawk would still not be able to block his attacks.
 

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Funny how the denialist changed the topic of Shanks being weaker than Mihawk to Kaido being the strongest and trying to pit him against the WSS LOL, no one is denying Kaido is number 1 but why then are those who are hurt by the fact Shanks is weaker than Mihawk keep talking as if people are refuting Kaido as the strongest in the verse, people on the threads nowadays are getting their logic more and more warped by the second.
Shanks is stronger than Mihawk AND Kaido is stronger than Mihawk. No topic being changed, they don't conflict at all.
 

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Kaido was merely an example of how Mihawk being the "strongest swordsman" doesn't means that he can defeat anyone with a sword on his hands.

The author still has to explain what the title exactly means. And I fear he may have shot himself in the foot there, and it won't be a satisfying answer.

One flawless way to explain it is that Mihawk is the "strongest among all swordsmen", while Whitebeard being the "strongest among all men" is above him.

But it looks for me that this would overestimate Mihawk's strength by a lot, since he would be stronger than Big Mom, for example.

Everything else points out that Mihawk is nowhere near that level. It would have to explain why Vista gave him trouble in Marineford, why his name is never mentioned among the world strongest (while the Yonko and Admirals are all the time)
 

King Moe

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I think the structure will either hold or the power levels of the three strongest fighters after the captain will be even more ambiguous, so there's no way to tell who's stronger than who. Besides, it doesn't matter who's stronger of the crew, Zoro will always fight the strongest swordsman even if the swordsman is the third strongest.

I'm not sure why some people are so insistent on structure, especially when Oda can change it anytime he wants. We know Jinbei is extremely strong, so it shouldn't be a surprise if Jinbei ends up being stronger than Zoro.
Even if Jimbei is the strongest one after Luffy, he kinda reach a lot of his potential and in his Prime more. Sanji and Zoro haven't reach their Prime and will surpassed him in this arc or later on. They are still young and yet to achieve their full potential all around after all.
 

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So where would you (EVERYONE except Nik and Sasha) rank Mihawk, from what the manga has shown us so far. I would say he is YC1, a little below the Admirals, and way lower than the Yonko. I don't see Mihawk being able to defeat an admiral, without high diff.
 

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So where would you (EVERYONE except Nik and Sasha) rank Mihawk, from what the manga has shown us so far. I would say he is YC1, a little below the Admirals, and way lower than the Yonko. I don't see Mihawk being able to defeat an admiral, without high diff.
At Admiral level, At MOST. I wanna see what type of troops the WG sends to his island. If they don't send at least an Admiral to arrest him, we will all know where he stands.
 

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That's still an assumption, given Garp and Whitebeard were around the same age, but Garp is still healthy while Whitebeard was sick and dying. There's no reason to believe Jinbei can't get stronger, especially since he'll be one of the main fighters.
 

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So where would you (EVERYONE except Nik and Sasha) rank Mihawk, from what the manga has shown us so far. I would say he is YC1, a little below the Admirals, and way lower than the Yonko. I don't see Mihawk being able to defeat an admiral, without high diff.
Way lower than both Yonko and Admirals, which I don't think differ significantly in strenght at all.

Can't defeat Jozu and can't make short work of Vista, which means he is only a little stronger than them at most.

Before being approached by the Marines, we last saw him gardening in Paradise with Perona. Crocodile and Moria became significantly weaker in Paradise, Mihawk shouldn't be an exception.

We know from his Vivre card bio that he achieved the title of "Strongest Swordsman" by challenging everyone until there was no one left...which means he didn't have a challenge in the years. No challenge no improvement.

We also know that the title itself is more than questionable, as at least Shanks seems to be a pure swordman with an unsettled score with Mihawk. I think the sheer fact the he does not settle it, as well as the fact that he trained the biggest threat to his title, imply that he probably doesn't even care anymore.

The line "I want to see how far I am from that man" (before slashing Whitebeard, which then got blocked effortlessly by Jozu) implies how "Strongest Man in the World" and "Strongest Swordsman" compare. One is a valid thing, the other is kinda meaningless.
 

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For now, I'd say between Yonkou Commander and Yonkou. He can beat commanders, but likely not the Emperors or Admirals apart from Fuji and Kizaru, probably.
 

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I am fine with Zoro and Sanji being on the same tier. And maybe I'll be okay with Jinbei...

That said Zoro is 2, Sanji 3, and Jinbei 4 otherwise it's a fumble by Oda.
Sanji never was that strong. Got the L treatment in his introduction arc. Sucked in Drum Island arc. Only defeated the second strongest female Baroque Works officer agent, while Nami beat the strongest. Then he got the L treatment in Skypea again.

Robin was certainly stronger than Sanji up till the Diable Jambe power-up. Very very doubtful that Sanji could one-shot Pell just a few weeks after a mediocre performance against Pearl.

Right now it's, Pre-Enma, it's certainly Jinbe >Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sanji.

Sanji fanyboyism is full of delusions. I actually like the character of Sanji a lot, but somehow I think I am the only one who does, while every other "Sanji-fan" likes a blonde Zoro with kicks.

Sanji isn't even a Supernova. Zoro on the ther hand is part of the Worst Generation, he is bound to surpass the previous generation, which gives him good chances to become stronger than Jinbe.

Edit: Even when Sanji performs his biggest feat, which is defeating Arlong's strongest commander underwater... Arlong only got praise for Zoro.
 

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Sanji never was that strong. Got the L treatment in his introduction arc. Sucked in Drum Island arc. Only defeated the second strongest female Baroque Works officer agent, while Nami beat the strongest. Then he got the L treatment in Skypea again.

Robin was certainly stronger than Sanji up till the Diable Jambe power-up. Very very doubtful that Sanji could one-shot Pell just a few weeks after a mediocre performance against Pearl.

Right now it's, Pre-Enma, it's certainly Jinbe >Zoro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sanji.

Sanji fanyboyism is full of delusions. I actually like the character of Sanji a lot, but somehow I think I am the only one who does, while every other "Sanji-fan" likes a blonde Zoro with kicks.

Sanji isn't even a Supernova. Zoro on the ther hand is part of the Worst Generation, he is bound to surpass the previous generation, which gives him good chances to become stronger than Jinbe.

Edit: Even when Sanji performs his biggest feat, which is defeating Arlong's strongest commander underwater... Arlong only got praise for Zoro.
I'm bored, so I'll bite.

Sanji was always that strong. Bad guys used Zeff to stop Sanji from wrecking asses, and even after the beating he took, Sanji was still moving that it even impressed his own coworkers that knew him well. How did he suck in Drum Island when he saved Luffy and Nami and took damage? He's not rubber like Luffy. Bon is a male, and he and Bon have a similar fighting style. Otherwise Luffy sucks too because he lost to Crocodile twice. ALso, Sanji can't fight women, which is why he lost to Khalifa, so the strongest female BW agent was never going to be Sanji's opponent.

Robin could be considered the strongest Straw Hat at the time, tbh, until Luffy got enough speed to deal with her devil fruit power. Let's be real though, if Pell could survive a bomb, then he could survive even a Whitebeard attack or an Akainu magma attack.

"Blonde Zoro?" Those two are polar opposite in terms of fighting and personality, other than their willingness to fight, competitiveness with each other, and laidback but brave ways.

Sanji isn't a Supernova because he didn't get a bounty at the same time that Luffy and Zoro did. I forgot when Luffy got his bounty, but if it was during Arlong Arc, then Luffy and Zoro struck the Marine that caused them to get bounties. ANd since they already had bounties and were more visible, it was easier to increase their bounties until the crew beat Crocodile, a shichibukai. If I recall correctly, being part of the Supernova means having a certain amount of bounty.
 

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I'm bored, so I'll bite.

Sanji was always that strong. Bad guys used Zeff to stop Sanji from wrecking asses, and even after the beating he took, Sanji was still moving that it even impressed his own coworkers that knew him well. How did he suck in Drum Island when he saved Luffy and Nami and took damage? He's not rubber like Luffy. Bon is a male, and he and Bon have a similar fighting style. Otherwise Luffy sucks too because he lost to Crocodile twice. ALso, Sanji can't fight women, which is why he lost to Khalifa, so the strongest female BW agent was never going to be Sanji's opponent.
Sanji got beat up by rabbits, then got dispatched by Kureha. That's animals and a 100+ year old lady.

In fact, Gin only points his gun at Zeff midway during the fight. Before, Sanji only got a single hit in on Pearl, with his other two kicks being blocked.

In the same time Luffy accidently crashed into Pearl, causing him to bleed, and also blocked a ball-and chain-throw from Krieg, saving Sanji, this causes a mast to collapse on Pearl's head. In other word's, Luffy did more damage to Pearl even though he wasn't even fighting him.

And don't forget that it is Gin that defeats Pearl. With a single blow. Sanji's kicks couldn't even scratch the armor on the other hand.

Mr. 2 is both male and female, that's what he feels like. The Baroque Works hierarchy is based on gender, and strenght. That means Mister 2 is both the second strongest male and female agent. Also:

"Poison Spider" Zala: 35.000.000 Belly
Bentham of the Wild: 32.000.000 Belly

I know bounty isn't equivalent to strenght, but Mr. 2 was a Pirate Captain, complete with his own crew and ship, while Zala was an undercover barkeeper and is also four years younger than Bentham.

And just for comparison:

"The Killer" Daz Bones: 75.000.000

The difference here is too large to neglect it. Zoro beat someone who is much stronger than Sanji's opponent. It is Zoro that defeats such a guy, receiving a power-up while doing so and another power-up (flying slashes) an arc later. How on earth can Sanji keep up with someone that got three power-ups (don't forget the new swords in Logue Town) in the time where he himself got...none?

Preskip Powerups Zoro/Sanji:


Zoro: New Swords, Iron Cutting, Flying Slashes, Ashura, Shusui
Sanji: Diable Jambe

How is that comparable? It is 5:1 in favor of Zoro. Saying that Sanji and Zoro are roughly equal, despite Zoro powering up five times as fast as Sanji defies both the internal logic of this Manga, as well as the internal logic of Shonen in general.


Robin could be considered the strongest Straw Hat at the time, tbh, until Luffy got enough speed to deal with her devil fruit power. Let's be real though, if Pell could survive a bomb, then he could survive even a Whitebeard attack or an Akainu magma attack.
Luffy can stretch so he can't be confined by Robin's arms. Anyways, Luffy beat Crocodile, against which Robin was absolutely chanceless, despite being prepared and having a plan. Robin definitely was never above Luffy.

Pell surviving the bomb comes down to dumb luck, not strenght, that much should be clear.

"Blonde Zoro?" Those two are polar opposite in terms of fighting and personality, other than their willingness to fight, competitiveness with each other, and laidback but brave ways.
Well, this is the impression that the term "Monster Trio" gives. But that term is fanfiction. It never had any solid basis in the Manga, and it is really only Sanji fans that push for it.


Sanji isn't a Supernova because he didn't get a bounty at the same time that Luffy and Zoro did. I forgot when Luffy got his bounty, but if it was during Arlong Arc, then Luffy and Zoro struck the Marine that caused them to get bounties. ANd since they already had bounties and were more visible, it was easier to increase their bounties until the crew beat Crocodile, a shichibukai. If I recall correctly, being part of the Supernova means having a certain amount of bounty.
Zoro only got his bounty after Alabasta, for defeating someone significant, something that Sanji had not done and also couldn't have done. Daz Bones would have killed him, that much is certain.

Then during Enies Lobby, both actually did defeat equal opponents with moderate difficulty due to their new power-ups....But only Zoro got an increase past the 100M. Had Oda wanted for Sanji to be part of the Worst Generation, that would have been the time to push him, but Oda didn't do that.
Quite the opposite, he introduced Kid and Killer as counterparts to Luffy and Zoro. Not Kid, Killer and Heat or Wire. Those last two even go unnamed throughout their introduction arc. There is no counterpart for Sanji, because Sanji doesn't belong into the elite circle.
 

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Sanji got beat up by rabbits, then got dispatched by Kureha. That's animals and a 100+ year old lady.

In fact, Gin only points his gun at Zeff midway during the fight. Before, Sanji only got a single hit in on Pearl, with his other two kicks being blocked.

In the same time Luffy accidently crashed into Pearl, causing him to bleed, and also blocked a ball-and chain-throw from Krieg, saving Sanji, this causes a mast to collapse on Pearl's head. In other word's, Luffy did more damage to Pearl even though he wasn't even fighting him.

And don't forget that it is Gin that defeats Pearl. With a single blow. Sanji's kicks couldn't even scratch the armor on the other hand.
Yeah, and the rabbits were strong enough that Luffy didn't risk fighting them. Weren't they overwhelmed by the sheer amount of huge rabbits? Kureha also dispatched a badly injured Sanji, who doesn't fight women. She was actually shocked at how quickly Sanji got up and the energy he and Luffy had.

I don't think even Luffy or Zoro could have gotten past Pearl's shields, but Sanji was doing well enough. Luffy was able to deal damage because back of Pearl's head isn't protected, and his face was pushed into his shield.

Gin with his weapons, I believe, as opposed to Sanji and his legs. All I get from this is that Sanji had a problem fighting head-to-head using his legs while Gin had an advantage thanks to his weapon, and Luffy accidentally got Pearl from behind and above, where Pearl isn't protected.

Mr. 2 is both male and female, that's what he feels like. The Baroque Works hierarchy is based on gender, and strenght. That means Mister 2 is both the second strongest male and female agent. Also:
Ah okay. Nevertheless, he was male enough for Sanji to feel comfortable fighting. DIdn't he refuse to hit Bon even though Bon changed into women right in front of him? Went back to normal and had no problem hitting him again. Bon is probably female on the inside, male on the outside.

"Poison Spider" Zala: 35.000.000 Belly
Bentham of the Wild: 32.000.000 Belly

I know bounty isn't equivalent to strenght, but Mr. 2 was a Pirate Captain, complete with his own crew and ship, while Zala was an undercover barkeeper and is also four years younger than Bentham.

And just for comparison:

"The Killer" Daz Bones: 75.000.000

The difference here is too large to neglect it. Zoro beat someone who is much stronger than Sanji's opponent. It is Zoro that defeats such a guy, receiving a power-up while doing so and another power-up (flying slashes) an arc later. How on earth can Sanji keep up with someone that got three power-ups (don't forget the new swords in Logue Town) in the time where he himself got...none?

Also gotta look other factors too, which you implied, like when did they join Croc and become part of the shichibukai?

Swordsmen are generally stronger than hand-to-hand fighters, and Daz could turn his body into blades. And I dunno, but he can keep up with Zoro well enough that they became rivals and were fairly equal.

Preskip Powerups Zoro/Sanji:


Zoro: New Swords, Iron Cutting, Flying Slashes, Ashura, Shusui
Sanji: Diable Jambe

How is that comparable? It is 5:1 in favor of Zoro. Saying that Sanji and Zoro are roughly equal, despite Zoro powering up five times as fast as Sanji defies both the internal logic of this Manga, as well as the internal logic of Shonen in general.


Luffy can stretch so he can't be confined by Robin's arms. Anyways, Luffy beat Crocodile, against which Robin was absolutely chanceless, despite being prepared and having a plan. Robin definitely was never above Luffy.

Pell surviving the bomb comes down to dumb luck, not strenght, that much should be clear.

Well, this is the impression that the term "Monster Trio" gives. But that term is fanfiction. It never had any solid basis in the Manga, and it is really only Sanji fans that push for it.


Zoro only got his bounty after Alabasta, for defeating someone significant, something that Sanji had not done and also couldn't have done. Daz Bones would have killed him, that much is certain.

Then during Enies Lobby, both actually did defeat equal opponents with moderate difficulty due to their new power-ups....But only Zoro got an increase past the 100M. Had Oda wanted for Sanji to be part of the Worst Generation, that would have been the time to push him, but Oda didn't do that.
Quite the opposite, he introduced Kid and Killer as counterparts to Luffy and Zoro. Not Kid, Killer and Heat or Wire. Those last two even go unnamed throughout their introduction arc. There is no counterpart for Sanji, because Sanji doesn't belong into the elite circle.
eh, Zoro learned new moves, not necessarily powering up. I still don't see how that doesn't make them similar or equal, or how we went into comparing Zoro and Sanji. This is not a discussion I want to go into again.

Robin can make more arms and hands to grab Luffy and stop him from stretching. Luffy beating Crocodile doesn't mean he'd beat Robin as well, it doesn't work like that. On the ship to Alabasta, he was powerless against Robin. And to be fair, Luffy beat Crocodile only because of Robin saving him the first time he got wrecked.

How so? I don't remember seeing how Pell survived.

No, it had basis in the manga, if I recall correctly, during the Alabasta arc. The three took on a monster and took it down effortlessly, and the manga often shows them fighting monsters together and taking them down or surviving easily.

okay, One Piece wiki says Zoro got his bounty after beating Daz, while others weren't mentioned. Daz Bones would have also killed Luffy as well. Zoro is the only one who had any chance of winning because of his swords.

Funnily enough, it was Sanji that came out of the slave auction and kicked few Marines, and it was him who got greeted by Luffy. I don't know why Sanji isn't part of the Worst Generation, but he's proven to belong there.
 

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Sanji got beat up by rabbits, then got dispatched by Kureha. That's animals and a 100+ year old lady.
It's no surprise that Kureha was that strong. The same thing almost happened to Zoro too, as he challanged Crocus in Twin Cape.

And don't forget that it is Gin that defeats Pearl. With a single blow. Sanji's kicks couldn't even scratch the armor on the other hand.
Gin was the strongest non-captain in East Blue saga. Proof of it is that he got a bounty higher than any of Arlong officers. He probably would give Luffy trouble too.

Mr. 2 is both male and female, that's what he feels like. The Baroque Works hierarchy is based on gender, and strenght. That means Mister 2 is both the second strongest male and female agent. Also:

"Poison Spider" Zala: 35.000.000 Belly
Bentham of the Wild: 32.000.000 Belly

I know bounty isn't equivalent to strenght, but Mr. 2 was a Pirate Captain, complete with his own crew and ship, while Zala was an undercover barkeeper and is also four years younger than Bentham.

And just for comparison:

"The Killer" Daz Bones: 75.000.000

The difference here is too large to neglect it. Zoro beat someone who is much stronger than Sanji's opponent. It is Zoro that defeats such a guy, receiving a power-up while doing so and another power-up (flying slashes) an arc later. How on earth can Sanji keep up with someone that got three power-ups (don't forget the new swords in Logue Town) in the time where he himself got...none?
Bentham's bounty is lower than expected because of his ability to disguise himself. He is without a doubt stronger than Zala.

Bentham was put in level 3 of Impel Down, which usually requires a minimum bounty of 50,000,000, meaning his real treat is at least that high.

But there's no need to compare their bounties, since we actually got the chance to see Bentham and Daz Bones fighting, and it doesn't seem the difference between them was that high.

However, there was still a difference between Daz Bones and Bentham, since he was higher ranked. That's why Sanji had far less trouble against Bentham, while Zoro almost died fighting his opponent.

Preskip Powerups Zoro/Sanji:


Zoro: New Swords, Iron Cutting, Flying Slashes, Ashura, Shusui
Sanji: Diable Jambe
Loosing a sword and getting it replaced doesn't count as a power-up.

The CP9 can make their bodies as hard as steel, meaning that by the time of Ennies Lobby arc, Sanji would have no trouble in hurting Daz Bones' body.
 
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LOL at people saying Mihawk is YC1 and/or Admiral level at most... What are you even thinking, gosh?!

People who say "everything in the story points at Mihawk being weaker than Yonkos/Admirals". Same. That's so untrue.

But I won't bother elaborating. People don't want to listen.
 
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