One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Actually more like this right now:

Luffy - 100
Sanji - 90
Jimbei - 85
Zoro - 50

And Later

Luffy - 150
Sanji - 100
Jimbei - 90
Zoro - 60

That how it is and looking to be. Can't see Zoro topping Jimbei if he got taken out by nerf pleasure, Kamazou easily. Vagabond Drill and Zoro is out.

Don't troll the troll. If Sanji is 90, then Zoro is 90 or 91. No need to take the bait of the clowns, unless you want to be like them.

 

[King Moe]

Don't troll the troll. If Sanji is 90, then Zoro is 90 or 91. No need to take the bait of the clowns, unless you want to be like them.

Just joking on my end, as not taking it seriously. Trolling is more salty of way of doing things, I am just having my fun around.

Though Zoro is 89 or lower than Sanji given his performance in Wano though. 4 fights hype tool him too much to say he is stronger if I being honest.

 

[thedude]

Just joking on my end, as not taking it seriously. Trolling is more salty of way of doing things, I am just having my fun around.

Though Zoro is 89 or lower than Sanji given his performance in Wano though. 4 fights hype tool him too much to say he is stronger if I being honest.

For me at best I'd put them on a 100 point scale 91 Zoro, 90 Sanji. It's really just Zoro built up as 1st Mate and fighting the #2 in most fights, even if the difference between 2&3 is usually small. But i can see 90/90 for both as likely as well.

 

[M3J]

Luffy is stronger than Zoro & Sanji..Duh, whoever can't understand this, is delusional and biased because they probably like them more than Luffy.

That's a shitty logic to use, I hate the whole "WAAH FANBOY!!" argument.

In Sanji's case though, it's true because he's definitely weaker than Luffy.

I think fighting vs. Mihawk is much more training then against some Okamas. This isnt Last of Us 2.

From what I recall, Zoro's flashback never had him fighting Mihawk, just Mihawk teaching him haki and forbidding him from drinking alcohol until he learned CoA. I can also claim Sanji also had to fight against Iva and extremely strong okamas and got much stronger as result, if you can claim Zoro fought Mihawk.

 

[King Moe]

For me at best I'd put them on a 100 point scale 91 Zoro, 90 Sanji. It's really just Zoro built up as 1st Mate and fighting the #2 in most fights, even if the difference between 2&3 is usually small. But i can see 90/90 for both as likely as well.

Nah, 89 or lower for me. 4 fights hurts too much especially ones with Hawkins and Nerf Killer. Until his performance shows, he can probably tied with Sanji at best. Though rivalry is like Naruto and Sasuke on surpassing the other, so it's back and forth thing. I can see them tying a lot especially probably after Wano in their bounties which would be great moment for Oda to push their rivalry and comical moment from it.

 

[hokageji]

In my post I was referring to top 3 yonko commanders.... Jinbe did fight ace to a draw though I would argue that that is a point against jinbe. Ace seemed to lack any halfway decent haki and I'd even argue he died due to that. he could fight back against aokiji during the war though I would argue that is mostly because of his fruit than because of his skill. And sure, pirates apparently are at their peak past their 40s... But that was already the case with jinbe when he fought ace. Some 2 years before the story started.

Sure, but there is substantial difference in strength between shichibukai. Of the original shichibukai within the series you have crocodile, moria, jinbe, mihawk, hancock, kuma, doflamingo.... Jinbe is not even close to the strongest in that group, which includes weak-ish people like crocodile and moria, and he is supposed to be a match to a top 3 yonko commander? I don't buy that. At least how I'd rank them in terms of strength is mihawk-hancock-doflamingo-kuma/jinbe-crocodile-moria... As in, maybe jinbe was probably the 5th strongest, optimistically the 4th...

I don't think there is any circumstance under which jinbe could ever be a sweet commander. Mostly because that requires a blood tie to big mom... Though regardless of that, jinbe is simply not there strength wise (though he is a hard counter to cracker's crackers so he might have a chance here). I'd maintain that jinbe is probably around oven/daifuku tier rather than sweet commander tier...

I already addressed that JInbei would be beneath the sweet commanders, which count as the top 3. So .....

Considering how Jinbei was in Mama's crew and wasn't a top commander, its fair to rank him beneath the 3 sweet commanders, even admirals for that matter. but that could be skewed for family preference too.... I would say he'd be the strongest after them.

About Ace, he did know how to use Haki, and his novel explores more of that. His death was largely because Akainu's DF ability is stronger than his, and Ace's haki is inferior too....

We are not ranking the shicibukai, 4th strongest might be right, but its still stronger than any of the supernovas, Luffy and Kidd excluded. Look at how both Law and Kidd reacted to Jinbei joining the strawhats, it really skews the crew's strengths.
Looks like we agree on most of the things, just the ranking of JInbei and Zoro.... And as i said, we haven't witnessed enough of Zoro to rank him there.... There's more to see for sure, but till it is shown, i will rank Jinbei higher than Zoro in present timeline...

 

[McNuss]

Everything in the series points to Sanji being equal to Zoro.

You showed examples which cannot be compared. For example, Sanji being defeated by Kureha, which never fought Zoro.

• They had a competition in Little Garden to see which one captured a bigger animal, both defeated a dinosaur of similar size.
• They briefly fought against each other in Davy Back Fight, and they were evenly matched.
• Their CP9 opponents had an near identical Dourki levels.
• Their zombies fought to a standstill in Thriller Bark.
• Both were still standing after Kuma's Ursus Shock.
• Both defeated PX-7 together, and both caused critical damage.
• They knocked out each other in chapter 920 cover.

1. It's not a legit measurement stick if the opponent is not a challenge.
2. They hardly fought at all
3. See 1., Also Zoro hold off Kaku and Jabra together, with Usopp cuffed to his hand.
4. But Zoro's was a General Zombie and Sanji's not
5. But the one of them passed out soon after and it's Sanji
6. See 1.
7. Hardly relevant as that never happens in story.

There's no way Zala is stronger than Bentham.

Just like Sanji is many times stronger than Nami, Bentham is many times stronger than Zala.

What is the greatest feat of Zala? Breaking a wall?

That scared Nami, but would be nothing special for Sanji, who could easily defeat a Sea King or destroy an entire building with a kick.

And of course Bentham is capable of a similar feat to Sanji:

Now that is hardly comparable. Who's to say Zala couldn't have crushed a much bigger wall, or dealt similar damage to a beast?

 

[albertwv]

Zoro and Sanji are not equal!
They are really close but Zoro has the upper hand. Just look at the fights they've had Pre TS. Zolo always fought the #2 (Hachi, Mr.1, Kaku) while Sanji always fought the #3 (Kurobi, Mr. 2, Jabura). They are shown to be nearly equaled by a tiny margin. Another testament to Zolo's strenght compared to Sanji, is in the NEW WORLD, how Sanji had a hard time fighting Vergo who can be said to be Doffy's #2 and Zolo easily defeating Pika. Keep in mind, Pika was covered in Haki and Vergo wasn't when he fought Sanji. Zolo would've been able to handle Vergo with some difficulty maybe but Sanji would've lost his fight agaisnt Vergo.
Now Sanji fanboy will deny it but it is the truth Vergo > PH Sanji.

 

[triniman121]

I think Jinbe is around YC2 right now. He was shocked Luffy beat Katakuri which gives me the impression that he himself didnt think he could beat him. Luffy is already pass YC1 after his training so be is like Pseudo Yonkou Level right now and befitting of someone to be called the 5th emperor.

My tier so far of the StrawHats:

Luffy - 100
Jinbe - 85
Zoro - 85
Sanji - 75 (Raid Suit) 60 (base)
Franky - 55
Brooke - 55
Robin - 50
Nami - 40
Ussop - 35
Chopper - 30

 

[HereNThere]

4. But Zoro's was a General Zombie and Sanji's not

Having recently done a re-read of Thriller Park for some Brook goodness, I should note that Sanji's Zombie was said to be as strong as a General Zombie. Plus, as revealed a few chapters later, Sanji's shadow wasn't given a proper body because Moriah wasn't aware that he had a bounty, so he just tossed him into a random zombie because he thought he was a nobody.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Zoro and Sanji are not equal!
They are really close but Zoro has the upper hand. Just look at the fights they've had Pre TS. Zolo always fought the #2 (Hachi, Mr.1, Kaku) while Sanji always fought the #3 (Kurobi, Mr. 2, Jabura). They are shown to be nearly equaled by a tiny margin. Another testament to Zolo's strenght compared to Sanji, is in the NEW WORLD, how Sanji had a hard time fighting Vergo who can be said to be Doffy's #2 and Zolo easily defeating Pika. Keep in mind, Pika was covered in Haki and Vergo wasn't when he fought Sanji. Zolo would've been able to handle Vergo with some difficulty maybe but Sanji would've lost his fight agaisnt Vergo.
Now Sanji fanboy will deny it but it is the truth Vergo > PH Sanji.

Not that I disagree that Zoro > Sanji, but number 2 in Arlong Park was actually that karate dude. Not Hachi.

 

[nik87]

Why just jozu? Marco's fire is not real fire so he shouldn't be impeded by fishman karate anymore than any random person... Same with smoothie. All these guys are actually brawlers (with some ambiguity regarding smoothie).

But... this is basically an increase in offensive power for zoro, at a minimum. That's not only relevant to cutting distance but also to zoro's ability to cut through other people's haki.

Jozu because once in diamond mode he might not have any water in his body and Jinbe's Fishman karate drops in effectiveness a lot.
Not sure where Marco came from but he should be out of Jinbe's league.
Queen's plague may be a problem but physical stats should be similar and with water techniques he could perhaps avoid the plague if he isnt fast to dodge.
Smoothie has the ability to drain liquid and Jinbe might be a counter for that ability by either preventing it or by manipulating surrounding water to keep himself safe.
YC3 are in trouble, for Cracker, Jinbe is hard counter since his biscuits go to the crapper when affected by water and his mother couldnt cut off Jinbe's hand...

 

[nik87]

Not that I disagree that Zoro > Sanji, but number 2 in Arlong Park was actually that karate dude. Not Hachi.

He had 2nd highest bounty but that's all, Hatchan was VC/rhm.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

He had 2nd highest bounty but that's all, Hatchan was VC/rhm.

Was this ever officially confirmed? Or maybe mentioned in the manga?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Is this even relevant even more who was VC or next wanted to Arlong...? Thats literally decades behind us

 

[M3J]

Having recently done a re-read of Thriller Park for some Brook goodness, I should note that Sanji's Zombie was said to be as strong as a General Zombie. Plus, as revealed a few chapters later, Sanji's shadow wasn't given a proper body because Moriah wasn't aware that he had a bounty, so he just tossed him into a random zombie because he thought he was a nobody.

I think this sums up Sanji for the most part - underestimated and underrated because he's good at being sneaky and isn't a tactless brute.

 

[M3J]

Zoro and Sanji are not equal!
They are really close but Zoro has the upper hand. Just look at the fights they've had Pre TS. Zolo always fought the #2 (Hachi, Mr.1, Kaku) while Sanji always fought the #3 (Kurobi, Mr. 2, Jabura). They are shown to be nearly equaled by a tiny margin. Another testament to Zolo's strenght compared to Sanji, is in the NEW WORLD, how Sanji had a hard time fighting Vergo who can be said to be Doffy's #2 and Zolo easily defeating Pika. Keep in mind, Pika was covered in Haki and Vergo wasn't when he fought Sanji. Zolo would've been able to handle Vergo with some difficulty maybe but Sanji would've lost his fight agaisnt Vergo.
Now Sanji fanboy will deny it but it is the truth Vergo > PH Sanji.

As always, that's a horrible point because Zoro almost always fought swordsmen while Sanji usually fought hand-to-hand fighters. Swordsmen are usually stronger.

How often do we have to get into this? There's literally no proof whatsoever that Vergo > Sanji, at all.

 

[King Moe]

I think Jinbe is around YC2 right now. He was shocked Luffy beat Katakuri which gives me the impression that he himself didnt think he could beat him. Luffy is already pass YC1 after his training so be is like Pseudo Yonkou Level right now and befitting of someone to be called the 5th emperor.

My tier so far of the StrawHats:

Luffy - 100
Jinbe - 85
Zoro - 85
Sanji - 75 (Raid Suit) 60 (base)
Franky - 55
Brooke - 55
Robin - 50
Nami - 40
Ussop - 35
Chopper - 30

Luffy - 100
Sanji - 90
Jinbe - 85
Zoro - 65
Franky - 55
Brooke - 55
Robin - 50
Nami - 40
Ussop - 35
Chopper - 30

Fixed it for you. No need to thank me and good joke to put Zoro same level as Jimbei. He is not deserving of that how Wano been to him xD.

 

[kkck]

Jozu because once in diamond mode he might not have any water in his body and Jinbe's Fishman karate drops in effectiveness a lot.
Not sure where Marco came from but he should be out of Jinbe's league.
Queen's plague may be a problem but physical stats should be similar and with water techniques he could perhaps avoid the plague if he isnt fast to dodge.
Smoothie has the ability to drain liquid and Jinbe might be a counter for that ability by either preventing it or by manipulating surrounding water to keep himself safe.
YC3 are in trouble, for Cracker, Jinbe is hard counter since his biscuits go to the crapper when affected by water and his mother couldnt cut off Jinbe's hand...

If it worked like that then there are plenty of fruits that would enjoy some degree of protection from at least some fishman karate attacks. As in, pretty much all logia for instance. They would all clearly be vilnerable to pure water attacks but, say, ace while he is fire would have as much water as jozu when he is all diamond for instance. I am not sure this works this way tbh.

I wasn't sure what you meant about jozu so I brought up other yonko commanders. Because it didn't seem like jozu enjoyed any more protection from fishman karata than anyone else there.

It is worth noting that jinbe faced a crazed and famished version of big mom. its a big feat of course but if big mom can brawl with kaido then its a near certainty that she was nowhere near her prime at that moment. It's not necessarily the case that cracker can't cut jinbe at all. Heck, if jinbe can actually resist the actual full might of big mom like that then he is probably a tier ahead of top 3 yonko commanders in general.

I am not sure of how to factor in the viruses tbh. We saw how violently ill they can quickly make someone.... Then anyone who gets infected, except perhaps a cyborg or a yonko (because they work under different logic than other normies), would be defeated near instantly.

 

[albertwv]

As always, that's a horrible point because Zoro almost always fought swordsmen while Sanji usually fought hand-to-hand fighters. Swordsmen are usually stronger.

How often do we have to get into this? There's literally no proof whatsoever that Vergo > Sanji, at all.

Lol found the Sanji fanboy in denial. Swordsmen are usually stronger? So Cracker > Katakuri, so BM > Kaido (if you consider BM a swordsmen), so Kaku > Lucci, so Law > Luffy,
I can keep going if you want. Being a swordsman has nothing to do with who is stronger.

There is proof in the manga, Sanji himself said that if he were to keep fighting it would be bad for him or at least he inferred it like that. One Vergo kick almost broke his leg bone and this Vergo with no Haki. Imagine had Vergo broken Sanji's legs, then what? Sanji suffered from an after shock after leaving the fight. Vergo was perfectly fine afterwards, he fought Smoker and Law only to lose to Law.
Zolo one shotted Pica in Full Body Haki,