One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

If you have to use "fanboy," that usually means your arguments suck.

I said swordsmen are USUALLY stronger. You telling me Daz wasn't stronger than Bon because of his blade devil fruit? Kaku and Jabra were for the most part even in strength, but Kaku would have the edge because of his swords. Cracker's defense was top notch, but Katakuri's Future Sight would give him an advantage, but otherwise he'd need a superior CoA to deal damage, which Luffy wasn't able to do. You do realize swords often give people advantages, right? Luffy was basically useless against Mihawk, for example.

That is not proof at all because it still can mean Sanji would win, but at great cost. Despite his leg bone being fractured or almost broken, Sanji was moving like he wasn't hurt at all, and that's after all the abuse his body took when Nami was in it. Pretty sure Vergo used haki, but I can't be assed to check. I do know though that the "aftershock" barely lasted for a minute, and few minutes afterwards, Sanji was back to kicking things.

Easier to do that with swords. Again, all of your points so far have been countered and debunked. Vergo has not given any indication he'd beat Sanji.

 

[XXGenesis]

That's a shitty logic to use, I hate the whole "WAAH FANBOY!!" argument.

It's very valid. Pursuing the perspective that Luffy isn't the strongest of the group isnt logical.

I'm not going over feats and comparing them. Choosing to have the under dog perspective is just an willfully ignorant choice.

Now. All in all. The pain in the ass is that an argument can be mad that Zoro can defeat Luffy. & Sanji can defeat Zoro...That's all there is too it. An good argument can be made, but on paper and playing at odds. Luffy beats Zoro most the time as Zoro would defeat Sanji most the time.

Zoro and Sanji are not equal!
They are really close but Zoro has the upper hand. Just look at the fights they've had Pre TS. Zolo always fought the #2 (Hachi, Mr.1, Kaku) while Sanji always fought the #3 (Kurobi, Mr. 2, Jabura). They are shown to be nearly equaled by a tiny margin. Another testament to Zolo's strenght compared to Sanji, is in the NEW WORLD, how Sanji had a hard time fighting Vergo who can be said to be Doffy's #2 and Zolo easily defeating Pika. Keep in mind, Pika was covered in Haki and Vergo wasn't when he fought Sanji. Zolo would've been able to handle Vergo with some difficulty maybe but Sanji would've lost his fight agaisnt Vergo.
Now Sanji fanboy will deny it but it is the truth Vergo > PH Sanji.

No they aren't equal at all.

Putting current PL aside, and referring to Pre TS. Zoro takes the 2nd strongest opponents..I.e Ex , of them not being equal; Zoro isn't that much stronger than Sanji(zenkai boost never kicks in from thriller bark); many fans use to scale Luffy>Zoro>Sanji as mentioned above but Sanji also never had a way to hurt Luffy, like Zoro does.

Now Post Time Skip.
I think Oda is making the gaps much more clear and distinctive. Luffy got 2 Zenkai boost from being a Commander 4Lv Since the time skip, & is now bordering nigh-yonkou lv.

Zoro has gotten no zenkai boost. Rofl if you think Oda had Zoro as mid commander lv threat this whole time. His Enma for sure has boosted him..either way not stronger than Luffy.

Sanji who oda has shown no real to, cant even compete with feats and skills with his rival Zoro. Has low balling feats and ambigious full potential, since Sanji hasnt shown much focus on haki. Or training outside of the TS..

So yea, imo Post TS. Oda ain't been keeping it interesting and argumentative. G4 Luffy will pound Zoro's face in. & Sanji is becoming an Amputee.

 

[M3J]

It's very valid. Pursuing the perspective that Luffy isn't the strongest of the group isnt logical.

I'm not going over feats and comparing them. Choosing to have the under dog perspective is just an willfully ignorant choice.

Now. All in all. The pain in the ass is that an argument can be mad that Zoro can defeat Luffy. & Sanji can defeat Zoro...That's all there is too it. An good argument can be made, but on paper and playing at odds. Luffy beats Zoro most the time as Zoro would defeat Sanji most the time.

not really. How is "omg if you think Zoro and Sanji are stronger than you must be a fanboy!!" good logic, especially when Zoro has yet to go all out? This has nothing to do with "under dog perspective," although I don't see how that factors in here given the only underdog would be Sanji, and he definitely isn't stronger than Luffy. Other than that though, I think we agree entirely with the last paragraph.

 

[albertwv]

If you have to use "fanboy," that usually means your arguments suck.

I said swordsmen are USUALLY stronger. You telling me Daz wasn't stronger than Bon because of his blade devil fruit? Kaku and Jabra were for the most part even in strength, but Kaku would have the edge because of his swords. Cracker's defense was top notch, but Katakuri's Future Sight would give him an advantage, but otherwise he'd need a superior CoA to deal damage, which Luffy wasn't able to do. You do realize swords often give people advantages, right? Luffy was basically useless against Mihawk, for example.

That is not proof at all because it still can mean Sanji would win, but at great cost. Despite his leg bone being fractured or almost broken, Sanji was moving like he wasn't hurt at all, and that's after all the abuse his body took when Nami was in it. Pretty sure Vergo used haki, but I can't be assed to check. I do know though that the "aftershock" barely lasted for a minute, and few minutes afterwards, Sanji was back to kicking things.

Easier to do that with swords. Again, all of your points so far have been countered and debunked. Vergo has not given any indication he'd beat Sanji.

If you're a fanboy your arguments suck. I have shown no bias towards any character especially Zoro or Sanji, but how I see it and how Oda portrays is: Luffy>Zolo>Sanji.
You call Daz a swordsman? Okay. Swords dont give advantages it is the people's skill on how they use them. Look at Luffy when he wielded a sword in Wano, did it give him an advantage? No lol. Stop using swordsmen>other characters.
My points have not been countered or debunked, manga shows that Sanji thought it would've been real bad for him if he kept on fighting Vergo. Even during the fight you can see Sanji struggling while Vergo showing no emotion. AND Vergo did NOT use Haki, if not then we would've seen it just like any other character POST TS shows their Haki. So Vergo was going easy on Sanji, while Sanji was struggling. Done. Countered. End of argument.

 

[Fox666]

Now that is hardly comparable. Who's to say Zala couldn't have crushed a much bigger wall, or dealt similar damage to a beast?

Who's to say that Zala couldn't destroy the planet? But why assume Zala could do that, if she didn't showed any feat near that?

And if that was the case, how come Nami could hurt her with the Clima Tact?

Compare it to the sheer destruction caused by Bentham and Sanji fight

 

[M3J]

Fanboy really needs to be banned from this section, people often don't know what it is and will toss it around whenever someone disagrees with them.

How do swords not give advantage? Sharp things with pointy end that can kill or seriously hurt people. When Luffy wielded a sword in Wano, he didn't use any swordsmanship, he just held the sword while fighting with his fists. If he without swords fought Zoro or Mihawk without swords in Part I, he'd have likely lost because he has no way to protect against slashes.

I'm not nik87, I've never used swordsmen > other characters. However, it's quite hard to argue that point when swordsmen can slash and stab people who don't have weapons, yeah? If you pit post-timeskip Luffy against Zoro from pre-timeskip, then Luffy's gonna win because of his haki along with new skills.

Your points have been countered and debunked many times over. Sanji thought it'd have been real bad, but he did not say he'd lose, and soon after, he was moving and fighting like he never fought Vergo. And this is battered and beaten up Sanji vs. fresh Vergo, to boot. Vergo did use haki, though. We didn't see Sanji use haki against Judge, but Judge was still surprised he knew haki after blocking his attack. You haven't countered anything but used the same old tired points that have been used many times and never proven to be right.

 

[Fox666]

@M3J I don't know where does the idea that Luffy can't fight a swordsman comes from.

Except that his rubber body doesn't protect him against blades, it's like any opponent.

We even got the chance of seeing Luffy fighting Zoro in Whiskey Peak.

Spoiler

Maybe in real life, you are at huge disadvantage if you are going against someone with a knife. But not in One Piece world.

Luffy can block Zoro's sword with his sandal. Physics be damned.

how Oda portrays is: Luffy>Zolo>Sanji.

IMHO Oda has consistently has shown Zoro and Sanji as near equals.

 

[M3J]

I mean, Mihawk proves how much trouble Luffy would be against a swordsman of high caliber, and it's not like Zoro was really trying to kill him.

I did mention Luffy with haki faring much better against swordsmen and blade users like Daz and etc. I don't think he cna block Mihawk's sword though.

 

[nik87]

We even got the chance of seeing Luffy fighting Zoro in Whiskey Peak.

We actually didnt get to see it. It is hidden behind a mist.
It is no issue for Oda to show Zoro eating a punch but good luck showing Luffy eating a sword slice across his face...

 

[nik87]

If it worked like that then there are plenty of fruits that would enjoy some degree of protection from at least some fishman karate attacks. As in, pretty much all logia for instance. They would all clearly be vilnerable to pure water attacks but, say, ace while he is fire would have as much water as jozu when he is all diamond for instance. I am not sure this works this way tbh.

I wasn't sure what you meant about jozu so I brought up other yonko commanders. Because it didn't seem like jozu enjoyed any more protection from fishman karata than anyone else there.

It is worth noting that jinbe faced a crazed and famished version of big mom. its a big feat of course but if big mom can brawl with kaido then its a near certainty that she was nowhere near her prime at that moment. It's not necessarily the case that cracker can't cut jinbe at all. Heck, if jinbe can actually resist the actual full might of big mom like that then he is probably a tier ahead of top 3 yonko commanders in general.

I am not sure of how to factor in the viruses tbh. We saw how violently ill they can quickly make someone.... Then anyone who gets infected, except perhaps a cyborg or a yonko (because they work under different logic than other normies), would be defeated near instantly.

I am guessing here but it could end up like that and in htat case Jozu would neutralize Fishman Karate.
There is still the sheer striking force and Haki included but that would tilt on Jozu's side due to his hardness.
Some logias could be unaffected in that case but other wouldnt, for example, Aokiji, Caribou, Blackbeard, Monet, Caesar, not sure about Smoker...

Yeah, BM was nerfed to some degree but she was still easily above commanders, I guess. Jinbe is tanky indeed, he took on Akainu's magma barehanded.
I think his durability is probably his best stat. I have no hope for Cracker after seeing that he couldnt cut Luffy's arm off despite free shot... I am more wondering how much Katakuri's Mogura would hurt Jinbe and whether it can hurt him significantly when he defends...

Jinbe "resisted" one slash from Big Mom in a somewhat nerfed state but taking more of such hits would eventually start hurting him significantly so I would still keep him around YC2.
The plague seems indeed dangerous, the solution is not getting hit or defending with something that isnt your body. I agree, very few individuals would be able to fight while being affected by it.

 

[goldb]

Who's to say that Zala couldn't destroy the planet? But why assume Zala could do that, if she didn't showed any feat near that?

And if that was the case, how come Nami could hurt her with the Clima Tact?

Compare it to the sheer destruction caused by Bentham and Sanji fight

What relevance does this have to the thread topic? If not, can we get back on topic please.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

@M3J I don't know where does the idea that Luffy can't fight a swordsman comes from.

Except that his rubber body doesn't protect him against blades, it's like any opponent.

We even got the chance of seeing Luffy fighting Zoro in Whiskey Peak.

Spoiler

Maybe in real life, you are at huge disadvantage if you are going against someone with a knife. But not in One Piece world.

Luffy can block Zoro's sword with his sandal. Physics be damned.


IMHO Oda has consistently has shown Zoro and Sanji as near equals.

Oda doesn't know how to write a fight between a swordsman and a non-swordsman realistically. So his logic will literally come down to "Sandals can be just as strong as blades!"

 

[thedude]

Zoro and Sanji are not equal!
They are really close but Zoro has the upper hand. Just look at the fights they've had Pre TS. Zolo always fought the #2 (Hachi, Mr.1, Kaku) while Sanji always fought the #3 (Kurobi, Mr. 2, Jabura). They are shown to be nearly equaled by a tiny margin. Another testament to Zolo's strenght compared to Sanji, is in the NEW WORLD, how Sanji had a hard time fighting Vergo who can be said to be Doffy's #2 and Zolo easily defeating Pika. Keep in mind, Pika was covered in Haki and Vergo wasn't when he fought Sanji. Zolo would've been able to handle Vergo with some difficulty maybe but Sanji would've lost his fight agaisnt Vergo.
Now Sanji fanboy will deny it but it is the truth Vergo > PH Sanji.

I don't know that we can assume Vergo would win, but your statement that they are really close, but Zoro is slightly stronger is right.

Don't compare Pika's haki to Vergo's though. Vergo's was praised as some of the best.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2020, Original Post Date: May 1, 2020 ---

He had 2nd highest bounty but that's all, Hatchan was VC/rhm.

Hacchi was not the right hand man, there is no way to make that true lol. He was only on the boat because the real guy they wanted, Hyouzou, didn't join.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Don't compare Pika's haki to Vergo's though. Vergo's was praised as some of the best.

Both had the same and were on the same lvl.

 

[Shasha23]

Both had the same and were on the same lvl.

With Pica being stronger since he had an OP ability

 

[nik87]

Hacchi was not the right hand man, there is no way to make that true lol. He was only on the boat because the real guy they wanted, Hyouzou, didn't join.

 

[Fox666]

Hatchan, Kuroobi and Chew were the 3 executives of the Arlong Pirates. Their ranks was equal.

It was also heavily implied that they were equally powerful.

Hatchan bounty is 8 millions because octopus = 8 tentacles.

Both had the same and were on the same lvl.

IMHO Vergo was much stronger than the other executives.

Doflamingo expected Vergo to defeat Law, while he was afraid of ever letting Trebol get close to him.

Also when Law momentarily got his heart on his hand, Vergo was strong and fast enough to get it back. Compare it with Trebol, who was a joke for Law.

 

[nik87]

IMHO Vergo was much stronger than the other executives.

What can Vergo do against a mountain of stone?

 

[Fox666]

アーロン一味幹部
はっちゃん
(タコの魚人)
Arlong Pirates' officer
Hatchan
(octopus fish-man)

幹部 means "officer", "executive", etc
First mate would be 副船長

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2020, Original Post Date: May 1, 2020 ---

What can Vergo do against a mountain of stone?

Break it.

If you think Pica is invincible against blows, you are vastly underestimating the feats of One Piece characters.

We may not have seen Vergo himself doing something like that, but he almost broke Sanji's legs, who a few chapters earlier was kicking Wadatsumi around, who is near the size of Pica's statue.

 

[Shasha23]

Break it.

If you think Pica is invincible against blows, you are vastly underestimating the feats of One Piece characters.

We may not have seen Vergo himself doing something like that, but he almost broke Sanji's legs, who a few chapters earlier was kicking Wadatsumi around, who is near the size of Pica's statue.

You cant give someone feats they dont have shmsh

Its like me saying Sanji can knock down Dragon Kiado just cause Luffy can do it, that's some stupid reasoning and logic your using here buddy