One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

That's not how it works man!

If you hit a DF user with haki you damage their physical body bypassing the DF defences.
e.g take Luffy for example if haki didn't damage his physical body like your thinking then he wouldn't have taken damage from Katakuri's punches or any other person who hits him with blunt force.

If Buggy gets cut by haki without him dodging out the way in time then he will get cut.
Swordsman just need to use haki to cut him, Buggy is immune to cuts but not haki, same goes for Luffy who is immune blunt force but not haki, every haki punch damages him.

If you hit Akainu with Haki you dont stop him from being magma.
If you hit Aokiji with Haki you dont stop him from being ice.
If you hit Luffy with Haki you dont stop him from being rubber.

They all have evidence in manga.
Now, if you slice Buggy with Haki you will stop his DF from working?
Luffy isnt immune to blunt hits, he just handles them better because he is rubber. Haki doesnt prevent him from being rubber.
Buggy's ability is to not be affected by cuts and Haki wont prevent that ability from working.

 

[Shasha23]

If you hit Akainu with Haki you dont stop him from being magma.
If you hit Aokiji with Haki you dont stop him from being ice.
If you hit Luffy with Haki you dont stop him from being rubber.

They all have evidence in manga.
Now, if you slice Buggy with Haki you will stop his DF from working?
Luffy isnt immune to blunt hits, he just handles them better because he is rubber. Haki doesnt prevent him from being rubber.
Buggy's ability is to not be affected by cuts and Haki wont prevent that ability from working.

Yes you dont stop him from being magma but you still hit and damage him!
Yes you dont stop him from being ice but you still hit and damage him!
Yes you dont stop him from being rubber but he still takes damage and bleeds

If haki didnt bypass the DF defence then it would be impossible to hit them!
We have evidence in the manga of Luffy felling pain from flicks, kicks and punches, attacks that shouldnt work on rubber.
Luffy is immune to blunt hits, they bounce of him, he only takes damage when those hits are haki hits
Haki cuts will work on Buggy because thats what haki does, if haki didnt allow you to bypass DF defences then beating logia's would be impossible and Luffy wouldnt take damage from blunt force damage.

 

[nik87]

Luffy is immune to blunt hits, they bounce of him, he only takes damage when those hits are haki hits
Haki cuts will work on Buggy because thats what haki does, if haki didnt allow you to bypass DF defences then beating logia's would be impossible and Luffy wouldnt take damage from blunt force damage.

We have several examples to contradict Luffy being immune to blunt damage. Rubber isnt immune to blunt hits, it just handles it better than anything.
Buggy is different. He isnt a logia who cannot be damaged without Haki, he easily can be hit and damaged without Haki. Simply by using blunt force.
If you can damage him with hakified slice you nullify his DF and that would be first example of such interaction.

Swordsmen can easily damage Buggy by rotating their swords by 90° and hitting him Kaido style, haki or not.
If Buggy would be damaged by Hakified slice his DF wouldnt be working.
When you hit logia you dont stop them from being logia, when you hit Luffy you dont stop him from being stretchy...

 

[Shasha23]

Ther

We have several examples to contradict Luffy being immune to blunt damage. Rubber isnt immune to blunt hits, it just handles it better than anything.
Buggy is different. He isnt a logia who cannot be damaged without Haki, he easily can be hit and damaged without Haki. Simply by using blunt force.
If you can damage him with hakified slice you nullify his DF and that would be first example of such interaction.

Swordsmen can easily damage Buggy by rotating their swords by 90° and hitting him Kaido style, haki or not.
If Buggy would be damaged by Hakified slice his DF wouldnt be working.
When you hit logia you dont stop them from being logia, when you hit Luffy you dont stop him from being stretchy...

There has never been a time where punches worked on Luffy that weren't haki punches, rubber is immune to blunt force even Luffy says so/
Buggy is as different as Luffy, if you think haki wont work on Buggy then why is it working on Luffy?
Haki doesnt nullify it bypasses the DF defence allowing you to damage the person directly, if this wasnt the case then Luffy wouldnt bleed from taking punches, not would flicks hurt him because he is rubber.
Haki doesnt just work on logias and Luffy it works on ALL devil fruit powers, no exception.

Why bother rotating your sword when you can just cut him with haki?
Haki was introduced as a way to compete with ability users, it wasnt introduced to criple logias and Luffy!

 

[nik87]

There has never been a time where punches worked on Luffy that weren't haki punches, rubber is immune to blunt force even Luffy says so/
Buggy is as different as Luffy, if you think haki wont work on Buggy then why is it working on Luffy?
Haki doesnt nullify it bypasses the DF defence allowing you to damage the person directly, if this wasnt the case then Luffy wouldnt bleed from taking punches, not would flicks hurt him because he is rubber.
Haki doesnt just work on logias and Luffy it works on ALL devil fruit powers, no exception.

Why bother rotating your sword when you can just cut him with haki?
Haki was introduced as a way to compete with ability users, it wasnt introduced to criple logias and Luffy!

Katakuri slammed him into a wall, he took damage. Lucci punched him, he took damage, Enel slapped him with a staff, he took damage. Sanji kicked him, he took damage... There are many examples where he takes damage from blunt force without Haki being used.

When Luffy is using his rubber powers and you hit him with haki you dont stop his rubber powers from working.
When you slice Buggy with Haki, is his DF working?
Again, you dont need Haki to hurt Buggy. His DF does absolutely nothing if Hakified slices actually damage him.
I doubt that Mihawk wasnt using Haki when he minced Buggy and the later wasnt affected at all.

 

[Fox666]

Katakuri slammed him into a wall, he took damage. Lucci punched him, he took damage, Enel slapped him with a staff, he took damage. Sanji kicked him, he took damage... There are many examples where he takes damage from blunt force without Haki being used.

I think it makes sense.

If you have some rubber object on your hands, there are many ways to rip it apart. But you are going to have a hard time punching it.

When Luffy is using his rubber powers and you hit him with haki you dont stop his rubber powers from working.
When you slice Buggy with Haki, is his DF working?
Again, you dont need Haki to hurt Buggy. His DF does absolutely nothing if Hakified slices actually damage him.

The only explanation we had from how Haki can damage Devil Fruit users is Rayleigh saying it can "hurt their real bodies".

It does sounds like it should hurt Buggy.

I'm not 100% sure, because Buggy ability seems to work differently... but Buggy ability being special in that regard would be too convoluted for One Piece. It doesn't has complex explanations for abilities like Hunter x Hunter or Bleach.

I doubt that Mihawk wasnt using Haki when he minced Buggy and the later wasnt affected at all.

I would assume plot protection.

Did Mihawk used Haki on the slash aimed at Luffy, but that was redirected by Daz Bones? Maybe the same questions applies to the slash redirected by Jozu.

 

[nik87]

Did Mihawk used Haki on the slash aimed at Luffy, but that was redirected by Daz Bones? Maybe the same questions applies to the slash redirected by Jozu.

I think he was in all those cases.

The thing with Buggy's fruit is that it has potential if he cannot be harmed by slashes regardless of Haki. It is used by a quite weak character so the possibility of being broken is out of the window. If it were eaten by Mihawk for example, Zoro would never beat him if the only way to harm him would be blunt damage.
On the other hand, It is not hard to beat Buggy by using only blunt damage, even for swordsmen.

 

[XXGenesis]

Plz let this become the common consensus.
I refuse to go pages and pages on about this. Sometimes, as fans we get the wrong idea about something in the manga...

Initially Yes, many ppl thought Haki fully negated DF powers.....It doesn't. Only BB has this power. That's how BB DF works, not haki.

Ex....Jimbei vs Akainu. He was using Hardening to block Akainu. Jimbei is still being burnt, he's just resisting the damage and pain.....It would be possible to grab Akainu with haki, however you'll beinl grabbing Magma tho, so itll still burn....Ryu is the answer in how to touch Logia & not get hurt

 

[thedude]

Plz let this become the common consensus.
I refuse to go pages and pages on about this. Sometimes, as fans we get the wrong idea about something in the manga...

Initially Yes, many ppl thought Haki fully negated DF powers.....It doesn't. Only BB has this power. That's how BB DF works, not haki.

Ex....Jimbei vs Akainu. He was using Hardening to block Akainu. Jimbei is still being burnt, he's just resisting the damage and pain.....It would be possible to grab Akainu with haki, however you'll beinl grabbing Magma tho, so itll still burn....Ryu is the answer in how to touch Logia & not get hurt

I think we have to assume everything pre-timeskip, they were using haki, just Oda hadn't fleshed it out yet so it wasn't shown. Like all the high level fighting had to have it, that's how we've seen everyone fight post-timeskip, so it would be weird for them all to forget in the biggest fight of their lives.

 

[XXGenesis]

I think we have to assume everything pre-timeskip, they were using haki, just Oda hadn't fleshed it out yet so it wasn't shown. Like all the high level fighting had to have it, that's how we've seen everyone fight post-timeskip, so it would be weird for them all to forget in the biggest fight of their lives.

I slightly disagree. When Garp hit Luffy, Yup haki was the explanation.

Enel's mantra, was most likely CoO but just like Wano, Skypedia names it differently.

Tekkai however is not CoA hardening..its a similar technique but not the same, at all.

Only certain characters had haki pre TS, basically only the big dogs..VA, Admirals, Stronger Warlords..basically Shapody Arc and forward....

 

[Fox666]

Tekkai however is not CoA hardening..its a similar technique but not the same, at all.

Why not?

The CP9 could make their bodies hard as steel, hurt Luffy's body, attack with blows that release energy, etc.

Plus the Vice-Admirals used Rokushiki against Luffy in Marineford, and a few chapter later it was revealed they fight using Haki.

 

[XXGenesis]

Why not?

The CP9 could make their bodies hard as steel, hurt Luffy's body, attack with blows that release energy, etc.

Plus the Vice-Admirals used Rokushiki against Luffy in Marineford, and a few chapter later it was revealed they fight using Haki.

CoA has 2 abilities. Hardening/ Armour. Either or effects DF users bodies and damages them.

So Tekkai hardens, but there is no invisible armour there. Nor are they hardening turning black..so that's not Haki...also Haki is limited, tekkai is not.

Which VA hit Luffy with that move??

 

[Fox666]

CoA has 2 abilities. Hardening/ Armour. Either or effects DF users bodies and damages them.

So Tekkai hardens, but there is no invisible armour there. Nor are they hardening turning black..so that's not Haki...also Haki is limited, tekkai is not.

Hardening not turning the body is an inconsistency. It should have been visible in several instances in Marineford.

The CP9 use Rokushiki to both strengthen their fists and protect their bodies.

Rob Lucci was even capable of releasing a shockwave, if that sounds familiar...

Which VA hit Luffy with that move??

Momonga and Dalmatian attacked Luffy on Marineford. They used Soru, Geppo and Shigan.

 

[XXGenesis]

Hardening not turning the body is an inconsistency. It should have been visible in several instances in Marineford.

No its not.
We cant keep addressing something that's common fact. The counter argument to what you just said is a very popular opinion. So I shouldn't have to address such statements.

The CP9 use Rokushiki to both strengthen their fists and protect their bodies.

Rob Lucci was even capable of releasing a shockwave, if that sounds familiar...

They can't Tekkia while moving...So no it does not enhance their fist.

Rokushiki is a Martial Arts form with 6 techniques literally translation is 6 powers

Shigan- Finger stab
Tekkai- Iron body
Geppo- sky walking
Soru- speed movement
Ryankaku- foot blade
Kame-I- limp. Flexible paper like movements
#7 Rokugan-secret shockwave skill

Momonga and Dalmatian attacked Luffy on Marineford. They used Soru, Geppo and Shigan.

I, yes I do remember that.
But do you rlly need me to tell you that's not haki...None of those are haki skills



Note how none of that has to do with Haki.

 

[thedude]

CoA has 2 abilities. Hardening/ Armour. Either or effects DF users bodies and damages them.

So Tekkai hardens, but there is no invisible armour there. Nor are they hardening turning black..so that's not Haki...also Haki is limited, tekkai is not.

Which VA hit Luffy with that move??

Did Oda create the black haki pre-timeskip? Don't think so. If Garp used haki to hit Luffy, there was no black on his fist. There was no black on the arrows the Kuja shot at Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---

Hardening not turning the body is an inconsistency. It should have been visible in several instances in Marineford.

The CP9 use Rokushiki to both strengthen their fists and protect their bodies.

Rob Lucci was even capable of releasing a shockwave, if that sounds familiar...


Momonga and Dalmatian attacked Luffy on Marineford. They used Soru, Geppo and Shigan.

Good point on the shockwave, the Rokuogan. I wouldn't be shocked if Oda retconned that to be the haki Luffy is learning now.

 

[XXGenesis]

Did Oda create the black haki pre-timeskip? Don't think so. If Garp used haki to hit Luffy, there was no black on his fist. There was no black on the arrows the Kuja shot at Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---

I'm not understanding the point behind your post....See below.....

I think we have to assume everything pre-timeskip, they were using haki, just Oda hadn't fleshed it out yet so it wasn't shown. Like all the high level fighting had to have it, that's how we've seen everyone fight post-timeskip, so it would be weird for them all to forget in the biggest fight of their lives.

 

[thedude]

I'm not understanding the point behind your post....See below.....

the point behind my post is petty straightforward...Oda showed haki pre timeskip, he never showed black haki, the most common form. So the absence of black haki is not a good enough reason to say something isn't haki.

 

[XXGenesis]

the point behind my post is petty straightforward...Oda showed haki pre timeskip, he never showed black haki, the most common form. So the absence of black haki is not a good enough reason to say something isn't haki.

Ooooo.ok copy. Yes I agree.
Because there's invisible haki, so it cant be ruled out.

I rlly was lost, tho. I understand now. Take over talking to Foxx666 about haki that..

 

[Fox666]

Did Oda create the black haki pre-timeskip? Don't think so. If Garp used haki to hit Luffy, there was no black on his fist. There was no black on the arrows the Kuja shot at Luffy.

Yeah, the black Haki was created after the time-skip... but it's still an inconsistency.

Good point on the shockwave, the Rokuogan. I wouldn't be shocked if Oda retconned that to be the haki Luffy is learning now.

Was Mantra retconned into CoO? I don't think so. The clues with Rokushiki were there too.

Perhaps it would be better to say that the author expanded Mantra and some Rokushiki techniques to be widely used.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2020, Original Post Date: May 6, 2020 ---

They can't Tekkia while moving...So no it does not enhance their fist.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Was Mantra retconned into CoO? I don't think so.

Technically yes...

The first time it was seen being used and referred to as Haki was during Luffy's battle on Amazon Lilywith the Boa Sisters. Later, Rayleigh explained Haki to Luffy and confirmed that Mantra and Haki are one and the same, and that "Mantra" is simply the Skypiean name for the ability.[3]

Op Wiki since i dont want to search the chapter.