One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

I think garp is overrated.
Here is what i think because garp had been in famous incidents like the rox or rocks and some other fights and made it alive he made a name for himself as an after-affect.
This doesn't show anything like for example let's pretend i am in one piece as a character right?
So let's say i fought in the marineford war and made it alive so i made myself a name where at some point everyone will think because i survived that war i am let's say super strong but in fact i could even be super lucky i was alive like maybe someone helped me survive or i was hiding in buildings like a coward.
But no one will know that, every outsider will know i was in that war where they fought strong guys.

Garp could easily be barely alived in those incidents and could easily be saved by roger where roger beat the big baddy and garp just because he was in that fight he got a name for himself.

The guy displayed only armament haki and punches.

Not sure if he has observation but if he had observation he never used it and i do not think he got kings conquer haki otherwise he would have used it as well.
This can easily be implied to every character literally it is the so called faked hype through others calling stories of how strong specific characters are.

we do not even know if he could beat shinki the golden lion alone i would say they could easily be lucky by using seastone cuffs to neutrilizing shinki and beat him he also had sengoku's support so i have this feeling that garp in his prime wouldn't be able to even beat rob lucci of today.

Like if garp's could only beat guys of don chinjao tier well i would say he was definetely not equal to roger or whitebeard and if i would give an overrall strength rate , these guys would have been at 10 and garp barely at 6

He is the real deal but from the combat standpoint, Oda hasnt given him anything that would allow him to be equal to weapon users or DF producers.
That's why his encounters with swordsmen like Rocks and Shiki are off-screened. Same reason Zoro vs Luffy was hidden behind the mist. Simply, hands are inferior to swords. Oda would compromise his own work if he made the hands equal to swords.

Garp's body is nothing special, regular human body like 99.9% of other OP characters. He was hurt by MF Luffy and by captain Morgans.
Sengoku the Buddha, is better equipped against weapon users or DF producers, his body is made of gold and he has shockwaves to keep the enemies at distance or at least put a pressure on them and reduce the effectiveness of their attacks, likeFujitora's gravity, extra weight on the opponent so to say...

What Garp can do to shield himself against weapons and DF produced mediums is combining all techniques to lower the damage. There are things like Hardening, flow blasting and tekkai and when combined they could possibly lower the damage enough so he stands a chance instead of being one-shotted. However, Oda may only have hinted towards Hardening only since Garp hasnt demonstrated anything else and his prime training to beat someone like Chinjao doesnt really help Garp's power level and also, entire God Valley is off-scened as well. His best on-screen feat is punching Marco and doing nothing.

prime Garp is PK leveled.

I am pretty sure the story was clear that PK is a navigational title, the one who finds the last island and the treasure, not a power level title.
If you think of it as PL title, then it scales to those who find the treasure, for example, if Buggy finds it, PK would be Buggy's level.

 

[HereNThere]

Who would ya'll say has the strongest Haki? I'm going Garp or Shanks. Garp because with no DF, he was on the same level as Primebeard, Sengoku and Roger.

Shanks basically the same reasons.

Eh, I don't think there is a single who stands above everyone else in terms of haki. I think a small group of folks stand on the same tier, but it's their application that differentiates them.

 

[thedude]

I think garp is overrated.
Here is what i think because garp had been in famous incidents like the rox or rocks and some other fights and made it alive he made a name for himself as an after-affect.
This doesn't show anything like for example let's pretend i am in one piece as a character right?
So let's say i fought in the marineford war and made it alive so i made myself a name where at some point everyone will think because i survived that war i am let's say super strong but in fact i could even be super lucky i was alive like maybe someone helped me survive or i was hiding in buildings like a coward.
But no one will know that, every outsider will know i was in that war where they fought strong guys.

Garp could easily be barely alived in those incidents and could easily be saved by roger where roger beat the big baddy and garp just because he was in that fight he got a name for himself.

The guy displayed only armament haki and punches.

Not sure if he has observation but if he had observation he never used it and i do not think he got kings conquer haki otherwise he would have used it as well.
This can easily be implied to every character literally it is the so called faked hype through others calling stories of how strong specific characters are.

we do not even know if he could beat shinki the golden lion alone i would say they could easily be lucky by using seastone cuffs to neutrilizing shinki and beat him he also had sengoku's support so i have this feeling that garp in his prime wouldn't be able to even beat rob lucci of today.

Like if garp's could only beat guys of don chinjao tier well i would say he was definetely not equal to roger or whitebeard and if i would give an overrall strength rate , these guys would have been at 10 and garp barely at 6

Garp didn't just make it out alive in a small war. It was him and Roger vs the Rox pirates from all we've been told. 2 vs Rox, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Shiki, Kaido.

He isn't overrated in his prime, dude was a beast who Roger respected personally. He's a guy who they said would have been an admiral if he hadn't been so disgusted with the world nobles. A guy with no devil fruit would be an admiral. A guy who even at his old age casually knocks the young Marco out of the air with a punch.

I think Akainu is stronger, but in his prime Garp was a different story.

(and let's all ignore the derail attempt to get this all about how swords are superior and how Pirate King is below WSS...we don't need to end more interesting debates to feed the trolls).


edit: Have to say how funny it is to even read Nik's comment about it being "simply navigational". Mihawk himself said to Luffy about wanting to be Pirate King "You tread a perilous path, even more perilous than trying to surpass me".

But Buggy could be Pirate King simply by stumbling to Laugh Tale. Lol. That's why you don't argue with him or egg him on. He's not being serious.

 

[AmitDS]

He is the real deal but from the combat standpoint, Oda hasnt given him anything that would allow him to be equal to weapon users or DF producers.
That's why his encounters with swordsmen like Rocks and Shiki are off-screened. Same reason Zoro vs Luffy was hidden behind the mist. Simply, hands are inferior to swords. Oda would compromise his own work if he made the hands equal to swords.

Garp's body is nothing special, regular human body like 99.9% of other OP characters. He was hurt by MF Luffy and by captain Morgans.
Sengoku the Buddha, is better equipped against weapon users or DF producers, his body is made of gold and he has shockwaves to keep the enemies at distance or at least put a pressure on them and reduce the effectiveness of their attacks, likeFujitora's gravity, extra weight on the opponent so to say...

What Garp can do to shield himself against weapons and DF produced mediums is combining all techniques to lower the damage. There are things like Hardening, flow blasting and tekkai and when combined they could possibly lower the damage enough so he stands a chance instead of being one-shotted. However, Oda may only have hinted towards Hardening only since Garp hasnt demonstrated anything else and his prime training to beat someone like Chinjao doesnt really help Garp's power level and also, entire God Valley is off-scened as well. His best on-screen feat is punching Marco and doing nothing.


I am pretty sure the story was clear that PK is a navigational title, the one who finds the last island and the treasure, not a power level title.
If you think of it as PL title, then it scales to those who find the treasure, for example, if Buggy finds it, PK would be Buggy's level.

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant but if I have to I shall explain what I meant. Sigh. He's Roger leveled ie the level of the pirate king. And actually given the narrative the last PK was and next PK will be the strongest pirate around so... Yeah thanks for that.

 

[nik87]

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant but if I have to I shall explain what I meant. Sigh. He's Roger leveled ie the level of the pirate king. And actually given the narrative the last PK was and next PK will be the strongest pirate around so... Yeah thanks for that.

Why is Garp PK lvl? Why isnt PK a Garp lvl?
Or simply, Garp is Garp level.
Again, I wouldnt put equality sign between a swordsman and puncher, at least not until Oda makes it plausible.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

garp being downplayed like crazy but oh well lmao

 

[AmitDS]

Why is Garp PK lvl? Why isnt PK a Garp lvl?
Or simply, Garp is Garp level.
Again, I wouldnt put equality sign between a swordsman and puncher, at least not until Oda makes it plausible.

Oh this is what this is about. Zoro and swordsmen. Well I know YOU wouldn't "put equality sign" between them. Okay the PK is Garp or WB leveled and it's harder to attain than WSS. There you go.

And btw Oda already made it plausible since Garp is already hyped as his equal in verse. Only you think all swordsmen automatically have an advantage over all non swordsmen even though martial arts with haki mastery and even alt types of weapons is a thing.

 

[thedude]

Oh this is what this is about. Zoro and swordsmen. Well I know YOU wouldn't "put equality sign" between them. Okay the PK is Garp or WB leveled and it's harder to attain than WSS. There you go.

And btw Oda already made it plausible since Garp is already hyped as his equal in verse. Only you think all swordsmen automatically have an advantage over all non swordsmen even though martial arts with haki mastery and even alt types of weapons is a thing.

Lol, did anyone doubt that was what it was about?

Garp was Roger/WB level in his prime. Oda is clear on that. Anything else is invention of the mind.

Roger was also probably the strongest pirate of his era. But he was not exponentially stronger than someone like WB. He wasn't stronger than Garp by any real measure from what we have in the story.

And Pirate King is not a real title. The other pirates didn't bow to him. He was just the greatest pirate, one who the WG couldn't do a thing about. It's a thing that was given to him probably by the media of the time, and it stuck.

 

[nik87]

Oh this is what this is about. Zoro and swordsmen. Well I know YOU wouldn't "put equality sign" between them. Okay the PK is Garp or WB leveled and it's harder to attain than WSS. There you go.

And btw Oda already made it plausible since Garp is already hyped as his equal in verse. Only you think all swordsmen automatically have an advantage over all non swordsmen even though martial arts with haki mastery and even alt types of weapons is a thing.

No, Garp has never been hyped as Roger's equal, that was Whitebeard who is also a weapon user.
Garp, on the other hand, needed Sengoku's help to take down one swordsman just like he needed Roger's against Rocks.

It is not about Zoro and swordsmen, it is about common sense of sword>hand. Whoever is equaling those two knows nothing of power scaling and combat.
If hands were equal to swords, nobody would be using swords or any other type of weapons. Ask yourself, what is the main reason people use weapons...

 

[thedude]

No, Garp has never been hyped as Roger's equal, that was Whitebeard who is also a weapon user.
Garp, on the other hand, needed Sengoku's help to take down one swordsman just like he needed Roger's against Rocks.

It is not about Zoro and swordsmen, it is about common sense of sword>hand. Whoever is equaling those two knows nothing of power scaling and combat.
If hands were equal to swords, nobody would be using swords or any other type of weapons. Ask yourself, what is the main reason people use weapons...

Guns are greater than swords...and yet in OP swords can magically redirect bullets without even touching them lol.

It's a manga, if Oda wants to say "This unarmed guy is as strong as, or nearly equal to, the former pirate king", then he is. End of story.

Roger+Garp was greater than Rox, Shiki, Kaido, BM AND WB. Garp has to be hella strong.

Your sword wanking is so beyond silly at this point.

 

[Ramen]

Roger+Garp was greater than Rox, Shiki, Kaido, BM AND WB. Garp has to be hella strong.

This is why I think Garp has the strongest haki.

 

[thedude]

This is why I think Garp has the strongest haki.

Could be. Looking at Shanks without a DF, I'd have to imagine his haki would be greater than most as well. You can't just waltz up to a guy like Akainu and casually stop his attack if you don't have that kind of haki. Even stopping one attack, most would probably get out quick because Akainu is lava, and that's tough to fight, but Shanks instead challenged everyone still there to fight him if they wanted it so bad.

 

[Erinyes]

Garp's body is nothing special, regular human body like 99.9% of other OP characters. He was hurt by MF Luffy and by captain Morgans.

Well Shanks body is nothing special too, he even got an arm eaten by a "fish" and still...

Joke aside, when thinking about admirals, Yonkous and all those powerful guys like Dragon, Mihawk etc. i just feel that Sh are still far to equal their level, at this point I think they might need some training, i wouldnt be surprised if actually this arc ends up not like we expect, and i think it is been hinted that some major stuff will happen Asap, right now i cant see them facing a yonkou crew like bb's for exple, without help, and even with help im not sure about how vs Bm and Kaido will end.

 

[Ramen]

Could be. Looking at Shanks without a DF, I'd have to imagine his haki would be greater than most as well. You can't just waltz up to a guy like Akainu and casually stop his attack if you don't have that kind of haki. Even stopping one attack, most would probably get out quick because Akainu is lava, and that's tough to fight, but Shanks instead challenged everyone still there to fight him if they wanted it so bad.

Exactly. Though I have a small feeling Shanks does have a DF but that's just me. I'd say Garp edges out Shanks considering who his opponents are when he was prime.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2020 ---

Ok I've done some reading and I change my stuff.

Kuzan and Akainu are on the same level as the Yonko though in a 1v1 they'd lose to all of em except for BB.

Kizaru is above Fuji but below the others.

Mihawk is overrated and he's not Yonko level. That Shanks rivalry long ago. Dragon is a top 10.

 

[thedude]

Exactly. Though I have a small feeling Shanks does have a DF but that's just me. I'd say Garp edges out Shanks considering who his opponents are when he was prime.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2020 ---

Ok I've done some reading and I change my stuff.

Kuzan and Akainu are on the same level as the Yonko though in a 1v1 they'd lose to all of em except for BB.

Kizaru is above Fuji but below the others.

Mihawk is overrated and he's not Yonko level. That Shanks rivalry long ago. Dragon is a top 10.

BB would probably beat them in a fight. His DF gives him an upper hand, and he was able to injure Shanks before he got a DF, something not even Mihawk could do.

That's why I like BB's character, and why i think he confuses others. He isn't a coward. He is a planner. But when he fights, he's a beast. I don't think Akainu without the ability to use his DF is beating him. BB just flees the scene because it's not in his interest to fight.

Mihawk is overrated on these boards because of swordboi's, but in the manga, he's properly rated. Only willing to test his strengh vs WB from a few hundred feet away, and then being casually stopped by one of WB's commanders. I think he's high tier YC at his best. Which is really strong. But I put Doflamingo at that level as well. Neither is in the conversation with Yonkos and Admirals I think.

 

[nik87]

Roger+Garp was greater than Rox, Shiki, Kaido, BM AND WB. Garp has to be hella strong.
Your sword wanking is so beyond silly at this point.

You literally have 0 idea about who was also on side of Garp and Roger.
Law and Luffy took down Doflamingo according to papers.
Nobody mentioned 5600+ other people on their side.

Rocks, Roger, Rayleigh, Oden, Shanks, Fujitora, Mihawk, Shiki, BM, Zoro are swordsmen, my sword wank is just fine. Nobody fought those barehanded on panel.

Well Shanks body is nothing special too, he even got an arm eaten by a "fish" and still...

Joke aside, when thinking about admirals, Yonkous and all those powerful guys like Dragon, Mihawk etc. i just feel that Sh are still far to equal their level, at this point I think they might need some training, i wouldnt be surprised if actually this arc ends up not like we expect, and i think it is been hinted that some major stuff will happen Asap, right now i cant see them facing a yonkou crew like bb's for exple, without help, and even with help im not sure about how vs Bm and Kaido will end.

The reason why I brought up normal bodies is because those cant withstand weapons and lethal abilities unlike several more durable bodies but even the most durable body in OP has been cut like butter by Oden...

I think Zoro and Luffy are almost ready for those levels, the thing is, protagonists start with like 20% power, then they shift up a gear, then another gear, they they go all out and that gives the wrong impression of their power lvl. Luffy can look good against barehanded combatants, such scenario benefits him and I am sure the Emperors will lose their weapons one way or the other so Luffys int helpless.

Zoro's ceiling is absolutely unknown, he was clashing with an Admiral and hasnt resorted to his strongest known mode from pre-TS and we havent seen the results of TS training aside from Haki which is general PU across the board for anyone decent. Also, after Wano, they need to be able to fight Blackbeard pirates and I think all those fights will be individual 1vs1s. Unless BBP are not next in line and are somehow saved for after the WG but it makes no sense...

 

[Ramen]

Never thought I'd see Zoro wank.....gah damn

 

[thedude]

"you didn't see it so how can you know...but I can assure you Cracker only attacked using a sword 3 times despite the fight being mostly off panel, and all of Crackers biscuits having swords"

Dude...we can all see how you are pulling things out of your rear end here to support your argument.

 

[nik87]

Never thought I'd see Zoro wank.....gah damn

You didnt think you will see wank of a major character whose one and only purpose is to be the strongest? What did you expect, cooking skills?

"you didn't see it so how can you know...but I can assure you Cracker only attacked using a sword 3 times despite the fight being mostly off panel, and all of Crackers biscuits having swords"

Dude...we can all see how you are pulling things out of your rear end here to support your argument.

Learn to handle sword wank because it isnt going anywhere and it will get even more intense.
We have yet to get to black blades and Zoro vs Mihawk may as well be the last fight of the manga.
I have said at start of Wano that this arc wont be easy for Zoro downplayers and I wasnt wrong.

 

[Ramen]

You didnt think you will see wank of a major character whose one and only purpose is to be the strongest? What did you expect, cooking skills?

Not your wank.......no.