One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[hokageji]

h, possibly? But I'm still a bit iffy. I don't think their Haki would just cancel each other out like that. If their hardening is on the same level, they should just probably clash equally because, well, they are the same level of hardness theoretically.

Hardness = hardness

But Garp vs Cracker case isnt hardness vs hardness. Its hardness vs sharpness. A sharp object will always cut a blunt object if they have the same hardness. That is why only a diamond can cut a diamond.

 

[Ramen]

Where would you guys rank Magellan? Top 20? 25?

I think he's also high YC1 level.

 

[thedude]

All else equal, a sword will beat a fist. All else being equal, a gun will beat a sword. But all else is never equal. Luffy's speed is better than most opponents. Sanji's is even better I think. Luffy's haki is also growing exponentially, so that helps him.

But we do know that Garp clashed with Roger many times. From others, and from Roger himself when he asked Garp to find and protect his son. Roger fights with a sword. Garp does not. Garps limbs are all intact. Maybe we can stop doing the mental gymnastics and just admit - in One Piece, people who don't have weapons can compete equally with those that do.

I mean, the same people who say "swords rule all" won't take the other logical position - devil fruits rule all. Because they can't take this side, because then they'd have to say Mihawk (and Zoro...it's always Zoro this is about) would lose always to someone like Akainu. Akainu can just flood the land with lava and melt you. Try to use a sword against that...and yet!

So if a non DF user can fight against a DF user like Akainu, an unarmed Garp or Luffy can fight against someone with a sword. A sword is easier to defend against then lava or meteorites raining down on you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

Where would you guys rank Magellan? Top 20? 25?

I think he's also high YC1 level.

I think YC for sure, high Vice Admiral/near admiral. He one shotted BB's crew, he made Iva look weak (Iva later schooled Kuma to show his strength). Without knowing his haki level we can't say 100%, but Magellan is very very strong. I still wonder if he is related to King in any way, they have similar features.

 

[HereNThere]

But Garp vs Cracker case isnt hardness vs hardness. Its hardness vs sharpness. A sharp object will always cut a blunt object if they have the same hardness. That is why only a diamond can cut a diamond.

Like I said, I'm a bit iffy on it. Aside from the fact that the series plays fast and loose with physics, we've only seen Hardening be negated by those who's haki clearly superior to the other person's. We've never seen a truly equal clash of haki, nevermind one where an individual has a sword and one doesn't.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the two would just clash. Maybe some pain would be felt on the part of the non sword wielder, but I don't see it outright bypassing their hardening.

 

[hokageji]

Where would you guys rank Magellan? Top 20? 25?

I think he's also high YC1 level.

Magellan is amazing, and there can be a case made that Magellan's attained awakening too. If that is the case, he'd be Yonko commander level surely. Atleast Cracker / Snack level..

All else equal, a sword will beat a fist. All else being equal, a gun will beat a sword. But all else is never equal. Luffy's speed is better than most opponents. Sanji's is even better I think. Luffy's haki is also growing exponentially, so that helps him.

Exactly... well said.
That is why i'd like to see a power level discussion with an equal opponent in mind. Like how
I like to see power levels in terms of a scenario like, how many vice admirals can they take down? Its hard to power rank even then, but it does take away scenario based advantages...

mean, the same people who say "swords rule all" won't take the other logical position - devil fruits rule all. Because they can't take this side, because then they'd have to say Mihawk (and Zoro...it's always Zoro this is about) would lose always to someone like Akainu. Akainu can just flood the land with lava and melt you. Try to use a sword against that...and yet!

That is the argument i dont get too.. Like Mihawk is greater than Big Mama, cos he's the world strongest swordsmen... but what about the fact that Mama can just create infinite souls to stall him and attack from behind? Looking at her fighting style, is she really a swordsmen? Surely she can fight with a sword, but that's not the only weapon in her arsenal.
Mihawk being the strongest swordsmen is strictly considering a sword duel, not an actual fight. I extend this to Roger as well...

So if a non DF user can fight against a DF user like Akainu, an unarmed Garp or Luffy can fight against someone with a sword. A sword is easier to defend against then lava or meteorites raining down on you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

Like I said, I'm a bit iffy on it. Aside from the fact that the series plays fast and loose with physics, we've only seen Hardening be negated by those who's haki clearly superior to the other person's. We've never seen a truly equal clash of haki, nevermind one where an individual has a sword and one doesn't.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the two would just clash. Maybe some pain would be felt on the part of the non sword wielder, but I don't see it outright bypassing their hardening.

And your argument is valid.... I am only pointing out that if you consider hardness as physics, you cannot not consider sharpness as well. In the OPverse, both are scenario and plot dependant. Of course, even making the assumption that two people will have the same hardness isnt accurate, cos there's no way to measure haki like Chakra in Naruto. So i guess there's no way to know for sure.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

If that's what you think, what would happen in this situational clash

Prime Garp's CoA Haki clad Fist or Cracker's CoA Haki clad sword... what do u think would give way first?

Because if you think Cracker would be able to pierce through Garp's haki you seriously need to reevaluate your powerleveling.

I mean... How did you read my post and then replied with something completely irrelevant to what was said in that post...

Garp's haki is probably leagues above Cracker's. Of course Garp comes out victorious.

Now take two characters who are on the same level. One is a swordsman, the other one fights with fists. Who would you bet on?

 

[Pirate Queen]

But Garp vs Cracker case isnt hardness vs hardness. Its hardness vs sharpness. A sharp object will always cut a blunt object if they have the same hardness. That is why only a diamond can cut a diamond.

This is inaccurate. While it is true only diamond can cut diamond, it not a matter of hardness vs sharpness. Its a force of a certain hardness vs a force of something with equal hardness.

Someone wielding a diamond sword can't just cut through a diamond shield because its sharpness vs hardness, the tool(sword) would have to be utilized in such a way that it can be cut diamond.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

I mean... How did you read my post and then replied with something completely irrelevant to what was said in that post...

Garp's haki is probably leagues above Cracker's. Of course Garp comes out victorious.

Now take two characters who are on the same level. One is a swordsman, the other one fights with fists. Who would you bet on?

If both had equal haki it ends in a draw or whoever has the higher haki reserves

 

[Ramen]

Magellan is amazing, and there can be a case made that Magellan's attained awakening too. If that is the case, he'd be Yonko commander level surely. Atleast Cracker / Snack level..




Exactly... well said.
That is why i'd like to see a power level discussion with an equal opponent in mind. Like how
I like to see power levels in terms of a scenario like, how many vice admirals can they take down? Its hard to power rank even then, but it does take away scenario based advantages...





That is the argument i dont get too.. Like Mihawk is greater than Big Mama, cos he's the world strongest swordsmen... but what about the fact that Mama can just create infinite souls to stall him and attack from behind? Looking at her fighting style, is she really a swordsmen? Surely she can fight with a sword, but that's not the only weapon in her arsenal.
Mihawk being the strongest swordsmen is strictly considering a sword duel, not an actual fight. I extend this to Roger as well...

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

And your argument is valid.... I am only pointing out that if you consider hardness as physics, you cannot not consider sharpness as well. In the OPverse, both are scenario and plot dependant. Of course, even making the assumption that two people will have the same hardness isnt accurate, cos there's no way to measure haki like Chakra in Naruto. So i guess there's no way to know for sure.

Wait....... Isn't he already awakened? I thought his demon was his awakening.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Lexusflame



And then people say nik87 is the one who's trolling...

You have yet to properly explain why your reasoning is any better than anyone else's. Don't make me out to be a troll when I have met everyone of your arguments with a valid counter point.

I even provided a picture explaining why haki is hardness vs hardness.

Your arguement is sword > fist which is accurate in tw real world but we are talking about a fictional world where one of the 3 strongest marines uses only his fists and has fought Rocks,, Roger, WB and all other manner of legends without a single weapon or DF

You must truly not know what a troll is if you think im trolling. I'm looking for a proper response. I can admit when I'm wrong. Can you?

Maybe you just call people trolls when you have nothing else to provide to a conversation?

 

[Ramen]

Who tf cares between swords and hands. Just discuss the chars themselves.

 

[thedude]

Who tf cares between swords and hands. Just discuss the chars themselves.

You see, it's a convoluted way of saying Zoro is > everyone. So it matters. To some, it matters more than anything. It's why you'll see resurgence in arguing over the title WSS "it must be the strongest because swords are stronger, ergo, Zoro will be strongest". If you can't argue he's strongest via feats, and he won't ever have greater feats than Luffy, you have to then switch tactics, and say "swords beat everything, therefore the strongest sword user is the strongest character".

If you understand that, you'll understand the obsession with arguing swords are stronger than anything else.

 

[Ramen]

You see, it's a convoluted way of saying Zoro is > everyone. So it matters. To some, it matters more than anything. It's why you'll see resurgence in arguing over the title WSS "it must be the strongest because swords are stronger, ergo, Zoro will be strongest". If you can't argue he's strongest via feats, and he won't ever have greater feats than Luffy, you have to then switch tactics, and say "swords beat everything, therefore the strongest sword user is the strongest character".

If you understand that, you'll understand the obsession with arguing swords are stronger than anything else.

I mean saying Zoro > everyone is objectively wrong though.

 

[albertwv]

I think you guys are ranking Hancock too highly at YC1 level. I don't think she is stronger than Doffy who is YC3 because unlike Doffy she hasn't fully mastered her haki or at least her CoC. Other than that, I don't see her being that strong.

Magellan also doesn't seem to be that high up. Yes his venom poison seems pretty strong but him as an individual, not really. I believe if Pre TS Luffy knew haki, he would defeat him with HIGH Diff. And now Post TS Gear 2 Luffy at Fishman Island could surely defeat Magellan with ease. So I don't think Magellan is that powerful.

 

[Ramen]

Was it ever confirmed that Akainu's fruit is the strongest logia?

 

[hokageji]

This is inaccurate. While it is true only diamond can cut diamond, it not a matter of hardness vs sharpness. Its a force of a certain hardness vs a force of something with equal hardness.

Someone wielding a diamond sword can't just cut through a diamond shield because its sharpness vs hardness, the tool(sword) would have to be utilized in such a way that it can be cut diamond.

Its not only force, now you are making it completely scientific. Hardness is definition of tolerance of scratch, while toughness is the tolerance of strength/force.
So diamond can be broken with a hammer, like i have stated mutliple times before, but toughness would be resistance to force.
Also, in your example, what if the diamond is moving with the same force? Hardness would win and sword would break? Cos i thought we are assuming both Garp and Mihawk are swinging a punch and sword respectively.
So rephrasing your statement, a diamond sword is more effective in cutting a diamond shield than any other, because hardness is equal , toughness is equal and sharpness would be defining factor.
Sharpness also essentially means you are exerting more force in a smaller and concentrated plane.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

@Lexusflame
Actually, this is getting too scientific and none of it applies to the OP world, in any case, we both agree that when it comes to Garp, its a different story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020 ---

@Lexusflame



And then people say nik87 is the one who's trolling...

I disagree with the scientifc logic, but she's not trolling. someone who blindly believes a swordsmen is strongest is either oblivious to another point of view or trolling...
Also, its very unfair to call her trolling, even nik for that matter...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Its not only force, now you are making it completely scientific. Hardness is definition of tolerance of scratch, while toughness is the tolerance of strength/force.
So diamond can be broken with a hammer, like i have stated mutliple times before, but toughness would be resistance to force.

So rephrasing your statement, a diamond sword is more effective in cutting a diamond shield than any other, because hardness is equal , toughness is equal and sharpness would be defining factor.
Sharpness also essentially means you are exerting more force in a smaller and concentrated plane.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 25, 2020 ---

@Lexusflame
Actually, this is getting too scientific and none of it applies to the OP world, in any case, we both agree that when it comes to Garp, its a different story.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 25, 2020 ---

I disagree with the scientifc logic, but she's not trolling. someone who blindly believes a swordsmen is strongest is either oblivious to another point of view or trolling...
Also, its very unfair to call her trolling, even nik for that matter...

I guess I will have to map my arguements in a different manner from now on. Very well.
It's never good when you have to bring real world physics into a powerlevel discussion, but the matter of hardness is a simple concept.

Whoever has the better haki is at greater advantage. If there was a character that had undoubtedly the strongest with the strongest haki's and was a swordsmen there would be less arguement if it was outright stating swords were the best chance someone had of being able to compete with a top tier

 

[hokageji]

Whoever has the better haki is at greater advantage. If there was a character that had undoubtedly the strongest with the strongest haki's and was a swordsmen there would be less arguement if it was outright stating swords were the best chance someone had of being able to compete with a top tier

Yea, lets just talk haki instead of hardness.... on second reading, i am in the wrong bringing the scientific logic...
. I do agree with this statement, strongest haki will dominate.

 

[thedude]

I think you guys are ranking Hancock too highly at YC1 level. I don't think she is stronger than Doffy who is YC3 because unlike Doffy she hasn't fully mastered her haki or at least her CoC. Other than that, I don't see her being that strong.

Magellan also doesn't seem to be that high up. Yes his venom poison seems pretty strong but him as an individual, not really. I believe if Pre TS Luffy knew haki, he would defeat him with HIGH Diff. And now Post TS Gear 2 Luffy at Fishman Island could surely defeat Magellan with ease. So I don't think Magellan is that powerful.

We really don't know anything about Hancock's mastery of haki. We know that the marines sent fodder to deal with Weevil, but sent Coby and Fujitora after Hancock, so she must be damn strong.

 

[albertwv]

We really don't know anything about Hancock's mastery of haki. We know that the marines sent fodder to deal with Weevil, but sent Coby and Fujitora after Hancock, so she must be damn strong.

Well we know she doesn't have full control of her CoC, she mentioned it herself when Luffy first displayed it at Amazon Lily. SO I figured it she doesn't control her CoC good but Doffy can then Doffy can defeat her.

 

[Ramen]

Wait Magellan isn't awakened?