One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Brandish μ]

Didn't Cracker have the strongest Armament Haki Luffy had come across so far? If anything, that explains the efficacy he had in cutting Luffy, rather than swords as a weapon. Assuming the haki comment was legit.

 

[Fox666]

Didn't Cracker have the strongest Armament Haki Luffy had come across so far? If anything, that explains the efficacy he had in cutting Luffy, rather than swords as a weapon. Assuming the haki comment was legit.

That was a mistranslation, Luffy only said Cracked's Haki was very strong.

 

[Brandish μ]

That was a mistranslation, Luffy only said Cracked's Haki was very strong.

Cheers, I was wondering about that. Still I think the point stands, haki is a big factor.

Wouldn't Shanks have cut into Akainu at MF, if swords are superior?

 

[Shasha23]

Didn't Cracker have the strongest Armament Haki Luffy had come across so far? If anything, that explains the efficacy he had in cutting Luffy, rather than swords as a weapon. Assuming the haki comment was legit.

No, up to this point Luffy's CoA was always weak not that Cracker's was stronger, that's why Luffy couldn't block even Hody's weak attacks.
Anyway i dont get why you guys are debating this for so long, Luffy is weak to swordsman thats why Oda makes Zoro fights every competent swordsman and keeps them away from Luffy, and from now on Jinbe will fights every tricky enemy and keeps that enemy away from Luffy because he is easily fooled while Sanji fights enemies with gag powers that would never fight Luffy head on and would rather trick him into defeat.

I dont get why all this Luffy fanbois think Luffy is god when he isnt, Luffy is weak to cutting and stabbing, weak against people with gag powers and tricky devil fruit and is easily tricked, if people like Roger where alive today and was an enemy Luffy would not fight him but would fight someone like Whitebeard who used brute force and would go against his enemy head on.

 

[jaymizzo]

No, up to this point Luffy's CoA was always weak not that Cracker's was stronger, that's why Luffy couldn't block even Hody's weak attacks.
Anyway i dont get why you guys are debating this for so long, Luffy is weak to swordsman thats why Oda makes Zoro fights every competent swordsman and keeps them away from Luffy, and from now on Jinbe will fights every tricky enemy and keeps that enemy away from Luffy because he is easily fooled while Sanji fights enemies with gag powers that would never fight Luffy head on and would rather trick him into defeat.

Cracker vs Luffy.

I mean Zoro fighting swordsmen has nothing to do with the fact that... Zoro is a swordsman who wants to be the WSS... But rather to keep Luffy from fighting swordsman like Cracker because god forbid Oda makes Luffy fight a swordsman.

 

[Shasha23]

Cracker vs Luffy.

I mean Zoro fighting swordsmen has nothing to do with the fact that... Zoro is a swordsman who wants to be the WSS... But rather to keep Luffy from fighting swordsman like Cracker because god forbid Oda makes Luffy fight a swordsman.

Cracker didnt fight Luffy head on or with his blade, he sat back as he send his soldiers to deal with Luffy, the only time he really tried to cut Luffy he did, after that Cracker caught CIS and Oda turned on PIS so that Cracker didnt attack himself, and not to forget Nami was there and the homies where there helping Luffy.

The fact that everytime there is a swordsman Zoro is there has everything to do with it thats the point, there are things Luffy can and cant do thats why all along Zoro and Sanji have been there to take care of the things he couldn't do, the very first time Luffy and Zoro encountered a swordsman Zoro told Luffy to step aside that alone should tell you everything.

So far in the story Luffy has not fought a swordsman, Cracker never fought himself he used his ability, Katakuri another with a bladed weapon choose to stop using it even though the whole time he was using it Luffy was helpless.

You guys are just been salty because of Nik and are now throwing away all logical reasoning just so you can jump on Nik's back because he tends of say things you dont like, forgetting the fact that Zoro and Sanji are alway there to cover Luffy's weaknesses!

 

[nik87]

That's a hand vs a wrist
Here's hand vs sword, according to manga:

That's not a sword, that's a saw.
Sharp weapon regardless but you are forgetting Arlong placing his saw on his shoulder up for grabbing.
Has Cracker offered him his sword for the breaking?

You keep ignoring Cracker catching Luffy offguard.

What changes if it wasnt offguard? He was already clad in Hardening, nothing he can do to improve hand's resistance to the sword.

I mean BM in all her pirating years has yet to suffer any type of combat damage (cuts etc). Are we to assume she has never fought a single swordsman?

Maybe it is because she uses a weapon herself?
Kaido is uncuttable as long as he meets the sword with his club, as soon as it lands on his body, we saw what happens.

Wouldn't Shanks have cut into Akainu at MF, if swords are superior?

Shanks blocked the punch with the dull, thick side and used a haki blast to shield Coby, he was never attacking there.

 

[Nie Li]

You keep ignoring Cracker catching Luffy offguard.

I mean BM in all her pirating years has yet to suffer any type of combat damage (cuts etc). Are we to assume she has never fought a single swordsman?


Edit: Im actually lost now, what does sword vs fist prove again? Do we have swords and fists fighting each other or am I so dumb to be drawn into another pointless sidetrack?

To be fair BM uses Napoleon.

 

[M3J]

Cheers, I was wondering about that. Still I think the point stands, haki is a big factor.

Wouldn't Shanks have cut into Akainu at MF, if swords are superior?

As nik said, and Shanks probably didn't use as much power as he probably would have if he was trying to hurt Akainu. But then again, should we really take pre-timeskip haki stuff as fact?

 

[Aki1991]

Do we really have to discuss this topic again? Please let us move on and forget about swords and Zolo.

Where would you guys rank Magellan and Kong? Is Magellan admiral level?

 

[albertwv]

Do we really have to discuss this topic again? Please let us move on and forget about swords and Zolo.

Where would you guys rank Magellan and Kong? Is Magellan admiral level?

Sadly, this post will be ignored and everyone will continue to argue Zolo, Swords, Cracker, Luffy ,etc

Anyways, Magellan is nowhere near Admiral level. I would put him around VA level. IF you have haki and Speed you can basically defeat Magellan. Magellan doesnt seem physically strong compare to NW levels.

 

[Pirate Queen]

[ppppo

Sadly, this post will be ignored and everyone will continue to argue Zolo, Swords, Cracker, Luffy ,etc

Anyways, Magellan is nowhere near Admiral level. I would put him around VA level. IF you have haki and Speed you can basically defeat Magellan. Magellan doesnt seem physically strong compare to NW levels.

I could not disagree more. Haki wouldn't nullify his poison and speed means nothing if you can't touch him without dying. And by definition of awakening he was able to turn his surrounding environment into poison as it was literally seeping from the walls. Hell Venom is an instant kill ability.

You would need a very particular ability to counter the poison.

 

[HereNThere]

Is Magellan admiral level?

It'd make a lot of sense if he was, especially given his job overseeing the most dangerous criminals and those who the WG deemed necessary to basically delete from history.

As it stands, his current portrayal doesn't seem like it. If Oda has him make a come back at this point in the story, I would have to imagine that he'd be up there in the tier list.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

In 11 hours, Luffy didnt do a single thing, he couldnt touch Cracker. That's how capable the fist was.
And yet, with nameless attack he cut almost halfway through his arm.
Imagine what a capable swordsman would do - collect Mugiwara's hands as trophies...

he couldnt hit cracke not cause of the swordsmanship that's silly combo of haki and many biscuit soldiers is why

 

[goldb]

Where would you guys rank Magellan and Kong? Is Magellan admiral level?

I wouldn't say Magellan is; maybe somewhere just in between. He has an insane devil fruit ability and shouldn't be underestimated in a fight. He took out all of Blackbeard's crew (albeit catching them off-guard) and would've ended them had they not been given an antidote to his poison.

The reason I rank him somewhere in between is that even with the showing of haki pre-timeskip aside, I don't see him defeating the original 3 admirals in a fight, so I can't put him on their level.

As for Kong, he could likely still hold his own in a fight but he would be much older than even Sengoku, so I wouldn't put him on that level either.

 

[hokageji]

t proves everything. Not a single instance in 22 years explains how barehanded combatant will deal with a sword.
Yes, blade>fist was shown on panel, Luffy vs Cracker has spoon-fed it to all of us but some still question the superiority of the sword.

It doesn't prove anything. We've seen blades to break or stop like the instances others have shown on this thread...

Luffy vs Cracker was an example where Luffy's haki wasn't enough, doesn't apply universally....

nyways, Magellan is nowhere near Admiral level. I would put him around VA level. IF you have haki and Speed you can basically defeat Magellan. Magellan doesnt seem physically strong compare to NW levels.

Thank you for changing the topic from swords, i think my post above will be my last addressing this, @nik87 lets agree to disagree / put this on hold for a while.

Now on your quoted statement, here is why i disagree with:
1. heading a group housing the worst of the world would need someone with immense strength, so he is clearly at vice-admiral level or above .
2. Heading an organization with worst of the worst criminals in the world
3. shows exemplary usage of his DF ability, like using it to swim and stuf....
4. is possibly an awakened paramecia, seeing his abiliies (possible, not sure0..

I think he's nearly admiral level, definitely above a VA level.... Also i dont see how Haki can protect you against Magellan for too long... For a bit, yes but not for long.

 

[Nie Li]

It doesn't prove anything. We've seen blades to break or stop like the instances others have shown on this thread...

Luffy vs Cracker was an example where Luffy's haki wasn't enough, doesn't apply universally....



Thank you for changing the topic from swords, i think my post above will be my last addressing this, @nik87 lets agree to disagree / put this on hold for a while.

Now on your quoted statement, here is why i disagree with:
1. heading a group housing the worst of the world would need someone with immense strength, so he is clearly at vice-admiral level or above .
2. Heading an organization with worst of the worst criminals in the world
3. shows exemplary usage of his DF ability, like using it to swim and stuf....
4. is possibly an awakened paramecia, seeing his abiliies (possible, not sure0..

I think he's nearly admiral level, definitely above a VA level.... Also i dont see how Haki can protect you against Magellan for too long... For a bit, yes but not for long.

Strong armament haki and superhuman willpower could arguably protect one enough to damage Magellan, but whoever does should still be poisoned and die sooner or later (and I'd say sooner, given just how strong Magellan's poison was showed to be).

However, some long ranged attacks, be it rankyaku, Zoro's slashes or Kizaru's lasers, should go through the poison without a problem and put Magellan at a disadvantage. Specially if it's someone fast like Kizaru or Lucci, since even Mr.3 was fast enough to run away from Magellan, Lucci or the likes could just outrun him to maintain a safe distance while throwing some rankyakus, right?

 

[HereNThere]

Not only Magellan, but his Chief Guards should be significantly stronger than their initial portrayal as well. I mean, Sadi is supposedly stronger than the 4 Awakened Zoans. If the power granted to them by Awakening is as great as Doffy claims, then she's a freaking monster.

Speaking of Awakened Zoans, I'm fairly sure Oda is going to walk back that the Awakened Zoans in Impel Down were Awakened. We are probably going to learn, most likely soon with the Beast Pirates, that Zoans can have "false" Awakenings.

 

[hokageji]

Strong armament haki and superhuman willpower could arguably protect one enough to damage Magellan, but whoever does should still be poisoned and die sooner or later (and I'd say sooner, given just how strong Magellan's poison was showed to be).

However, some long ranged attacks, be it rankyaku, Zoro's slashes or Kizaru's lasers, should go through the poison without a problem and put Magellan at a disadvantage. Specially if it's someone fast like Kizaru or Lucci, since even Mr.3 was fast enough to run away from Magellan, Lucci or the likes could just outrun him to maintain a safe distance while throwing some rankyakus, right?

yea, thats a valid point. Long range can work but he can use venom road and attempt an escape... he should be capable of haki too, right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 2, 2020 ---

Speaking of Awakened Zoans, I'm fairly sure Oda is going to walk back that the Awakened Zoans in Impel Down were Awakened. We are probably going to learn, most likely soon with the Beast Pirates, that Zoans can have "false" Awakenings.

I think those were mixed with artificial DF... we know both Vegapunk and Judge worked on synthetic human research before they were forcibly split... So now Vegapunk's research may be using cloens with artificial DF and forcibly awakening them to act as obidient creatures...

 

[Nie Li]

yea, thats a valid point. Long range can work but he can use venom road and attempt an escape... he should be capable of haki too, right?

I want to think that he is capable of haki if he's supposedly "just as strong as Shiryu", who's now a Yonkou Commander, and he has under his custody prisoners who are confirmed haki users, but I don't remember the manga ever explicitly telling us Magellan uses haki neither in dialogue or feats so I can't take it for granted either.

I think those were mixed with artificial DF... we know both Vegapunk and Judge worked on synthetic human research before they were forcibly split... So now Vegapunk's research may be using cloens with artificial DF and forcibly awakening them to act as obidient creatures...

That's pretty dark but also pretty in line with Vegapunk's various lines of research, and it would also explain how little personality/individuability those zoans showed despite being very strong and the first awekened to appear in the series.