One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Typical response from you as expected.

You cant beat anyone at a factual argument so you would rather attack the person and use strawman arguments, you have truly turned into a disappointment as a debater here in the forums

I'm a pretty likable debater by all but you and nik, don't forget I'm the Pirate Queen of Mangahelpers yo, show some repekkkkk!

 

[jaymizzo]

Are we now really having a discussion about Pica being stronger than Queen? I'm giving up. This threat is lost long time ago already?

Next, the Gorillas/Monkeys at Mihawks Island are actually Mihawks YCs.

 

[Shasha23]

I'm a pretty likable debater by all but you and nik, don't forget I'm the Pirate Queen of Mangahelpers yo, show some repekkkkk!

What you think is not reality

 

[Pirate Queen]

What you think is not reality

I think if someone thinks Pica can dolo the Flying Six they are poor judges of powerscaling. That is reality.

 

[Shasha23]

Are we now really having a discussion about Pica being stronger than Queen? I'm giving up. This threat is lost long time ago already?

No, the discussion is that Queen doesnt have the ability to force Pica out, not that Pica is stronger!
Obviously Queen is stronger but that means nothing if he cant tag Pica

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

I think if someone thinks Pica can dolo the Flying Six they are poor judges of powerscaling. That is reality.

Quoting me and replying to things i never said, i wonder how your brain works seriously

 

[Pirate Queen]

No, the discussion is that Queen doesnt have the ability to force Pica out, not that Pica is stronger!
Obviously Queen is stronger but that means nothing if he cant tag Pica

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

Quoting me and replying to things i never said, i wonder how your brain works seriously

I'm not talking about you. You don't understand the argument that you just walked into which leads you to say nonsense like this. I never said you said that.

There are 2 sides here.

One side is saying Pica is YC level and can solo the F6 easily

The other side is saying Pica is strong but can be defeated by strong enough people.

You just jumped in and claim we are using headcannon when your defending someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

Stay out of it if you can't form a coherent thought on the matter. Please and thank you.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't want to talk about Pica anymore since I don't think we will get anywhere else, but I will say this about Cracker:

- Cracker is a swordsman and a YC, yes.
- He fought against Luffy "the Rubber Man", whose main weak point is how vulnerable he is to slashing attacks compared to blunt hits.
- He didn't really show any impressive feat with his sword.
- He showed how he's very capable using his biscuit DF. He had a long fight against Gear 4 Luffy using only his DF.

There's no reason to think that he's more skillful than say Zoro or Vista with his sword when he chose to not show it off against someone like Luffy. If he was really skillful he would have showered Luffy with slashes while his biscuits attacked from close quarters. With his DF alone and medium prowess with a legendary sword he was already able to fight Luffy.
This doesn't mean he's not stronger than Zoro or Vista. He's stronger than Zoro for sure for now, but not with his sword. That's not what he's shown. He's stronger with his biscuits.

So to sum it up, he's a swordsman just because he carries a sword, but it's not his swordsmanship that makes him a YC, it's just a useful addon, but since he didn't show he was able of that much with it, we really can't just assume he's able to slice up mountains or whatever. He was more about his DF and that was already enough for him to be a YC, but that doesn't mean he's just that good with skills he didn't show.

 

[nik87]

I don't want to talk about Pica anymore since I don't think we will get anywhere else, but I will say this about Cracker:

- Cracker is a swordsman and a YC, yes.
- He fought against Luffy "the Rubber Man", whose main weak point is how vulnerable he is to slashing attacks compared to blunt hits.
- He didn't really show any impressive feat with his sword.
- He showed how he's very capable using his biscuit DF. He had a long fight against Gear 4 Luffy using only his DF.

There's no reason to think that he's more skillful than say Zoro or Vista with his sword when he chose to not show it off against someone like Luffy. If he was really skillful he would have showered Luffy with slashes while his biscuits attacked from close quarters. With his DF alone and medium prowess with a legendary sword he was already able to fight Luffy.
This doesn't mean he's not stronger than Zoro or Vista. He's stronger than Zoro for sure for now, but not with his sword. That's not what he's shown. He's stronger with his biscuits.

So to sum it up, he's a swordsman just because he carries a sword, but it's not his swordsmanship that makes him a YC, it's just a useful addon, but since he didn't show he was able of that much with it, we really can't just assume he's able to slice up mountains or whatever. He was more about his DF and that was already enough for him to be a YC, but that doesn't mean he's just that good with skills he didn't show.

You were doing great until Cracker>Zoro. Why do you think that?

 

[Nie Li]

You were doing great until Cracker>Zoro. Why do you think that?

Because G4 Luffy had some trouble fighting the biscuits in the beginning despite G4 Luffy effortlessly tanking the piercing haki attacks of Doflamingo awakened fruit, while Zoro wasn't able to slice up the cage.

 

[Nie Li]

I think Zoro is destined to become Rayleigh 2.0 and kick serious ass. And I believe Mihawk does so already. But I also believe Zoro is still far from there.

Careful what you say, the imbeciles here will say "Luffy is not weak or vulnerable to slashing since everyone is vulnerable to it"

Well, my answer to that would be:
"That's right, but Luffy has higher invulnerability towards blunt attacks so in comparison it's smarter to attack him with slashing or piercing, to which he's more vulnerable".

Let's not call names, though. I don't share the opinions of some about how to powerscale characters but we are all just talking about a manga we all like.

 

[jaymizzo]

This is another dead horse. Is Luffy any more weaker to slash attacks than another human being?

 

[thedude]

This is another dead horse. Is Luffy any more weaker to slash attacks than another human being?

Right, we just saw Zoro pass out due to a slash. For like the 20th time.

Moving on...I'm surprised people are down on Law. He lost to Doflamingo, who Luffy barely beat (with help from Law and others). He just beat Hawkins (although who can say what happened there).

I can't see him being much weaker than Luffy. He probably relies on his DF more though, and has less physcial strength.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Right, we just saw Zoro pass out due to a slash. For like the 20th time.

Moving on...I'm surprised people are down on Law. He lost to Doflamingo, who Luffy barely beat (with help from Law and others). He just beat Hawkins (although who can say what happened there).

I can't see him being much weaker than Luffy. He probably relies on his DF more though, and has less physcial strength.

Do you want to rank the top alliance members? Let's say top ten?
Here's my list:
We now have:

Luffy/Marco
Yamato
Kidd/Law
Kyoshiro?
Jinbei
Izo/Zoro/Sanji

I think in that order. I might be missing someone obvious tho... I'm half drunk lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2020 ---

I like this! Rank your top 10 alliance fighters, go!

 

[Aki1991]

I would add the two minks, if we will have full moon. They gave Jack a challenge.

 

[Nie Li]

I'll say this upfront:
I'm not trying to start an endless argument about this, but if the topic is brought up and I'm questioned, I'll answer. If you want to ignore this post and stick to the topic of the Alliance's top ten, please feel free to do so.

This is another dead horse. Is Luffy any more weaker to slash attacks than another human being?

I made a post about Cracker not being a real swordsman and this was your take? Despite me already answering to that fallacy one post before?

Damn, this is like reading about Troy and then saying:
"Achilles isn't vulnerable in his heel. Is Achilles any more weaker to attacks to his heel than another human being?"

Since you felt the need to make it about Luffy and his weakness, I'll answer your question: Of course the answer to such a fallacy is "no, he is not", but his heel, or in Luffy's case, slashing and stabbing, was his weakness already back in chapter 1 and it will always be when there is no haki involved, because normal hits cannot hurt him, no matter how strong they are:

And it was made a plotpoint post-timeskip, by his own words, that now that his defense revolves about haki, he still has a harder time with those kind of attacks:

He's weaker to them, hence they are his weak point, hence he's vulnerable to them.

Of course, his haki has gotten stronger since then, but it's a plotpoint that his defense towards stabbing and slashing goes up slower and is always a tad behind.

Hence, the only reason I mentioned Luffy at all: If I had a strong DF but I was also a top tier swordsman, I'd try my best to cut him to pieces with my swordsmanship skills instead of leaving everything to my DF and only using my sword in selfdefense and not showing any showy technique that could at least try to finish him off. Cracker did that. He didn't show any top tier swordsmanship against Luffy. It's then more than safe to say that he's not a top tier swordsman despite his haki being strong and he relies on his DF and staying back, rather than being a contending swordsman.

Nothing wrong with the MC having a weakness. It doesn't mean he's weak, it just means he's "not as strong against that than against other things" and he'll be damaged easier by a sword. If you still feel the need to compare that to how other characters are also "hurt easier by a blade than by a fist": yes, that'd also be true. Humans tend to be weak against being cut to pieces, that just mean they're all vulnerable to it and all the more reason why Cracker would have tried harder to cut a weaponless Luffy despite not knowing about his high defense against blunt hits. Let's not make up what he's capable of with a sword if he hasn't shown it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Damn, this is like reading about Troy and then saying:
"Achilles isn't vulnerable in his heel. Is Achilles any more weaker to attacks to his heel than another human being?"

The only problem with this is simple. Look back on the 323 pages of this thread when it was mentioned and the argument is usually that Luffy is MORE susceptible to slashes than everyone else. Which is the issue.

Your point being made is an accurate one. But because it warped by swordboi's is the issue. It's not an issue that Luffy can get slashed, it is an issue when people say Luffy is at a disadvantage when faced with slashing type weapons which is inaccurate. He's not disadvantaged. He's just able to get hurt like everyone else in that instance.

In a situation where Luffy faces a swordsman, he not at a disadvantage he's just more likely to get injured like anyone would when faced with a sharp weapon.

Hopefully you can understand the difference

 

[M3J]

People who cant power scale only mock Pica and say that this or that character would beat him easily without actually saying how they would do that. Looks like a pretty good amount of users on this forum as well as in other forums. A shame...

The passive aggressiveness is even sillier when you still don't have an argument or refuse to understand explanations.

This is another dead horse. Is Luffy any more weaker to slash attacks than another human being?

I have no idea what this is in response to, but his weakness is slash attacks and sharp objects as that's one thing his rubber body cannot deal with. He may not be weaker than another character, but while his rubber body helps him tank blunt attacks, it doesn't help him with anything sharp. Most humans wouldn't be happy with getting hit with blunt objects, but Luffy usually doesn't care because he can't feel weak attacks.

 

[Nie Li]

The only problem with this is simple. Look back on the 323 pages of this thread when it was mentioned and the argument is usually that Luffy is MORE susceptible to slashes than everyone else. Which is the issue.

Your point being made is an accurate one. But because it warped by swordboi's is the issue. It's not an issue that Luffy can get slashed, it is an issue when people say Luffy is at a disadvantage when faced with slashing type weapons which is inaccurate. He's not disadvantaged. He's just able to get hurt like everyone else in that instance.

In a situation where Luffy faces a swordsman, he not at a disadvantage he's just more likely to get injured like anyone would when faced with a sharp weapon.

Hopefully you can understand the difference

I guess I'm too new on this thread.

 

[nik87]

Luffy, as a rubberman, is weaker to slashes than anyone else because nobody else is stretching while Luffy is.
Make a cut on rubber and stretch it, observe what happens. Pure logic, common sense and laws of physics.
Will Oda make Luffy's limbs be torn off to cement that point in the eyes of the deniers? No, of course not...

The passive aggressiveness is even sillier when you still don't have an argument or refuse to understand explanations.

What argument do I not have? What explanation do I refuse to understand?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I guess I'm too new on this thread.

You make excellent points. And they are damn near irrefutable, but when certain people make comments there are often many layers to the argument that go back 10 - 20 arguments ago.

For instance we have got to go through phases where Mr.1 was considered stronger than Crocodile for the sake of Zoro > Luffy or Pica > Doflamingo for the same reason.

Or even better Kaku being stronger than Lucci.

Each time arguements are made for Zoro's sake its often coupled with ridiculous claims. It's why the main arguer of Pica being a YC is a zoro fan.

The arguments are exhausting. This is what I ask myself. " If Sanji was in Zoro's place and the exact same thin happened... would it be discussed to such lengths?"

For example, if Sanji has defeated Pica... But Zoro defeat someone proven stronger... would Pica be discussed as much? The odds are, no. Because the bottom line it proving Zoro is the strongest, which is inaccurate. It goes all the waY up to even arguements that don't even mention Zoro, like Mihwak vs threads.

Often its mods who let the arguements get out of hand and let forum members resort to insulting other forum members or allowing arguements to go on far past what should be considered acceptable.

It's usually boils down to two forum members causing discourse.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2020 ---

if your using real word logic in a fictional manga... thats the issue.

Like claiming Luffy stretching somehow makes his sword injuries worse when there is no proof of this. Lufy's injuries have NEVER gotten bigger when he's stretched in a combat situation. Not a single instance.