One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

LOL what, everytime haki is used there is black coloring and Oda clearly shows Katakuri using it on that same panel but Luffy is not, its clearly shown his foor is not black indicating he isnt using haki

No, the black coloring is a specific haki technique, hardening. It is not however a visual representation of all armor haki being used. Invisible armor haki is a thing and we should assume it is being used in high level fights involving confirmed haki users unless specified otherwise.

 

[thedude]

Not only is his leg black, but the kick produces the black lightning bolts that Oda has taken to using to show haki clashes.

 

[Shasha23]

No, the black coloring is a specific haki technique, hardening. It is not however a visual representation of all armor haki being used. Invisible armor haki is a thing and we should assume it is being used in high level fights involving confirmed haki users unless specified otherwise.

Haki is colored black as an indicator, even now in pre timeskip flashbacks its colored black, there is no such thing as black haki or colorless haki, there is just HAKI!
Oda indicates when its being used by shading it black, you are just refusing to accept it cause it does not support your narrative.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

Not only is his leg black, but the kick produces the black lightning bolts that Oda has taken to using to show haki clashes.

His thigh is black and its not colored like the Katakuri fists, the part of the leg his foot which he used to kick Katakuri is not colored black like every other time he uses haki, also the black lightning is coming from Katakuri's fists not Luffy's leg

 

[Fox666]

It looked like that before but it doesn't make sense for the part that hits Katakuri doesn't have CoA while his thigh does, for me the darkened part its just a way to project speed.

There's a white circle to indicate reflection, Luffy was using Haki.

But does it even matter? Logias can be hit without Haki if they are careless.

 

[kkck]

Haki is colored black as an indicator, even now in pre timeskip flashbacks its colored black, there is no such thing as black haki or colorless haki, there is just HAKI!
Oda indicates when its being used by shading it black, you are just refusing to accept it cause it does not support your narrative.

As I said, that's plain wrong. Black haki is an actual armor haki technique, distinct from the standard invisible armor (as rayleigh described it). It's not a visual aid that haki is being used, it's a literal change in the color of what it is being used for. The manga even made a plot point out of that in how blades turn black in some cases.

 

[Shasha23]

There's a white circle to indicate reflection, Luffy was using Haki.

But does it even matter? Logias can be hit without Haki if they are careless.

there is no such thing on his foot and yes logias can be hit without haki but Katakuri is not a logia hence why he can be hit regardless

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

As I said, that's plain wrong. Black haki is an actual armor haki technique, distinct from the standard invisible armor (as rayleigh described it). It's not a visual aid that haki is being used, it's a literal change in the color of what it is being used for. The manga even made a plot point out of that in how blades turn black in some cases.

prove it, cause black coloring has been used to indicate haki usage, even in pre timeskip flashback Oda is now coloring it black, you saying otherwise is a lie and your own headcanon!
Rayleigh's flashback of him using it is black while the same panel pre timeskip was not! there is not such thing as invisible haki, Oda is coloring it as a way for us to see when its being used thats it, blackness is not some special this its just haki.

 

[kkck]

there is no such thing on his foot and yes logias can be hit without haki but Katakuri is not a logia hence why he can be hit regardless

Katakuri is mochi so a normal physical attack on him would be as or less effective than a normal attack on luffy. It would take exceptional techniques alongside extreme force to get anything done under the assumption that he is a paramecia and lacks instangibility. Even in this scenario haki would be crucial to make normal attacks meaningful against katakuri..

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

prove it, cause black coloring has been used to indicate haki usage, even in pre timeskip flashback Oda is now coloring it black, you saying otherwise is a lie and your own headcanon!
Rayleigh's flashback of him using it is black while the same panel pre timeskip was not! there is not such thing as invisible haki, Oda is coloring it as a way for us to see when its being used thats it, blackness is not some special this its just haki.

As prove, I present literally every chapter and every frame where hardening has been used. I mean, this is just you having a very basic misunderstanding (yet strangely common) regarding combat mechanics in this series. Black armor haki is literally called hardening... And we see blades literally turning black. Add to that plenty of instances where various versions of haki are used. Luffy used invisible haki against a pacifista, sanji being incapable of hardening (up to this point in the story) in spite of being an armor haki user, swords literally turning black permanently under certain circumstances... Dunno how much prove you want of how wrong you are on this.

 

[thedude]

Haki is colored black as an indicator, even now in pre timeskip flashbacks its colored black, there is no such thing as black haki or colorless haki, there is just HAKI!
Oda indicates when its being used by shading it black, you are just refusing to accept it cause it does not support your narrative.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

His thigh is black and its not colored like the Katakuri fists, the part of the leg his foot which he used to kick Katakuri is not colored black like every other time he uses haki, also the black lightning is coming from Katakuri's fists not Luffy's leg

The black lightning is caused by Katakuri punching...air...sure.

 

[King Moe]

I am gonna move on from your delusions, I never said that Zoro would solo Kaido.
He never asked Luffy to fight anyone, another delusion of yours. Sanji needs permission to attack, Zoro doesnt.
You confused Zoro with Sanji. Again, we are talking about Zoro, not Sanji. Focus.
Sadly for you Zoro will participate in Kaido fight and most likely be the one to kill him since Luffy cant kill with his close to 0 lethality.

Oh, now you have gone to struggling while before it was bested. Which one is it, struggling or bested?
Katakuri and Zoro are imaginary fight, nobody has anything concrete so Katakuri isnt helping you in any way.
What I say about past events is factual while talk about future events or imaginary fights is guessing for whoever takes part in the discussion.
The losing argument is part of your delusions, get rid of those, try meditation.

Yes, Enma was out when he was fighting, just like his other sword. Was there supposed to be some magic happening when swords are out?
So what if he "ran away"? Are you telling Oda what he should do? Seems like you got your own version of One Piece where characters should do what you want them to do. That's what people call Two Piece reader. Your grammar is bad, period, stop complaining about it and improve.
You got no proof on Apoo will beat Zoro either so your point is moot. He could have handled him, easily, just as easily as he handled another Supernova.
You arent reading One Piece, you got Two Piece fantasies and I wont entertain those.

You are delusional, he didnt faint for few days, go read the manga instead of repeating headcanons. Apoo killed your fragile trolling.
Momma's boy like Katakuri would be eaten by Zoro for breakfast. Zoro is already a top tier, Katakuri is small fry.
You will see when he kills Kaido that Katakuri is just an ant for Zoro.

Why would I admit something from your fantasies?
Sadly for you, Zoro is in the front row of major players of this war. You will have to watch a lot of Zoro.
Yes, you like him so much that he lives rent-free in your head.
The story has always been about Luffy and Zoro, from chapter 2 and in chapter 5 the title is: King of the Pirates and Master Swordsman.
Enjoy their adventures.

So far you haven't said anything about your arguments and more attacking someone grammar and claiming they are wrong by via of your headcannon fantasy. Series will always be about Luffy from Start to EOS whether you denied it or not. Zoro won't be able to beat major villains Luffy can handle in same arcs and that is a fact. When you can give performance where Zoro have defeated enemies compare to Luffy or he ever needed his help on beating major antagonist when facing his own fights with them, we can talk, but using imagination isn't going to help you anywhere lol. Last time I check Luffy actually met Coby and Nami in very first chapter, so Zoro wasn't apart of this until few chapters later. So by your logical, it's more about them than Zoro on who appear with him on his adventures starting out on first chapter.

Come back when your ready to admit fault when your counter instead on the train of make-believe on your 'claims'.

 

[Fox666]

there is no such thing on his foot

Here's the reflection:

And of course his leg was colored as such in the anime:

 

[Ramen]

Zoro has proven to be one of the strongest characters on the alliance side. I'd go ahead and call him the third or fourth strongest supernova.

Zoro getting some major spotlight this arc wouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro has proven to be one of the strongest characters on the alliance side. I'd go ahead and call him the third or fourth strongest supernova.

Zoro getting some major spotlight this arc wouldn't be a surprise.

I have the Top Alliance members like this

Luffy = Marco
Kidd = Law = Izo
Denjiro = Jinbei = Ashura = Yamato
Zoro = Sanji
Killer

 

[Ramen]

I have the Top Alliance members like this

Luffy = Marco
Kidd = Law = Izo
Denjiro = Jinbei = Ashura = Yamato
Zoro = Sanji
Killer

Zoro > Sanji IMO.

In terms of Supernovas:

1) Luffy
2) Kidd
3) Law/Zoro
4) Zoro/Law
5) Urouge
6) Apoo
7) X-Drake
8) Hawkins
9) Killer
10) Bege
11) Bonney


I don't see how we can scale Yamato yet. Hype wise I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

I have the Top Alliance members like this

Luffy = Marco
Kidd = Law = Izo
Denjiro = Jinbei = Ashura = Yamato
Zoro = Sanji
Killer

I don't know if Luffy surpassed Marco yet either.

 

[nik87]

Zoro is a top tier so all other alliance fighters are after him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro > Sanji IMO.

In terms of Supernovas:

1) Luffy
2) Kidd
3) Law/Zoro
4) Zoro/Law
5) Urouge
6) Apoo
7) X-Drake
8) Hawkins
9) Killer
10) Bege
11) Bonney


I don't see how we can scale Yamato yet. Hype wise I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

I don't know if Luffy surpassed Marco yet either.

I didn't rank the other SN because I'm just not sure Hawkins and XDrake are huge ???

 

[Ramen]

I didn't rank the other SN because I'm just not sure Hawkins and XDrake are huge ???

Hawkins is a decent swordsman with a formidable DF. Same with X-Drake. Nothing too extraordinary.

 

[King Moe]

Zoro > Sanji IMO.

In terms of Supernovas:

1) Luffy
2) Kidd
3) Law/Zoro
4) Zoro/Law
5) Urouge
6) Apoo
7) X-Drake
8) Hawkins
9) Killer
10) Bege
11) Bonney


I don't see how we can scale Yamato yet. Hype wise I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2020 ---

I don't know if Luffy surpassed Marco yet either.

Actually Sanji over Zoro especially performance. Also where is Zoro on same level as Law? Law has gotten better performance than him and plus Apoo AND Hawkins kinda trounce him when they fight. He also definitely not better than Urouge who have beaten YC lvl threat already, so at best you can say Zoro better or equal with Killer, Bege, and Bonney (Unless her powers are hax on how it works, if so then she stronger than him too).

It like this right now:

1. Luffy
2. Kidd
3. Law
4. Apoo
5. Urouge
6. Drake
7. Hawkins
8. Killer
9. Zoro
10. Bege
11. Bonney

Judging by their portrayal and performance on them.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2020 ---

I have the Top Alliance members like this

Luffy = Marco
Kidd = Law = Izo
Denjiro = Jinbei = Ashura = Yamato
Zoro = Sanji
Killer

I wouldn't put Sanji, Zoro (Maybe), and Killer low that they can't keep up with those above, but definitely Luffy, Kidd, Law, and Macro are above them.

 

[Ramen]

Actually Sanji over Zoro especially performance. Also where is Zoro on same level as Law? Law has gotten better performance than him and plus Apoo AND Hawkins kinda trounce him when they fight. He also definitely not better than Urouge who have beaten YC lvl threat already, so at best you can say Zoro better or equal with Killer, Bege, and Bonney (Unless her powers are hax on how it works, if so then she stronger than him too).

It like this right now:

1. Luffy
2. Kidd
3. Law
4. Apoo
5. Urouge
6. Drake
7. Hawkins
8. Killer
9. Zoro
10. Bege
11. Bonney

Judging by their portrayal and performance on them.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2020 ---

I wouldn't put Sanji, Zoro (Maybe), and Killer low that they can't keep up with those above, but definitely Luffy, Kidd, Law, and Macro are above them.

Wow......you really do like to downplay lol.

 

[King Moe]

Wow......you really do like to downplay lol.

Nah, just saying performance doesn't match, but you seem like to overhype despite Zoro has nothing to say why he is above others like Law and those he didn't have good performance with especially Hawkins and Apoo. Too soon to say he is Top 5 like that. He will down the line, but not right now given how others been presented in better fashion.

 

[nik87]

Nah, just saying performance doesn't match, but you seem like to overhype despite Zoro has nothing to say why he is above others like Law and those he didn't have good performance with especially Hawkins and Apoo. Too soon to say he is Top 5 like that. He will down the line, but not right now given how others been presented in better fashion.

If you would think logically you would realize that Zoro is a top tier.