One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

Well when something comes up to debunk the vivre card calling WB the strongest since Roger's time I'll accept it. And as I understand it, it's not actually clear either way that he's the strongest for 1 reason since he was both Roger's equal AND someone with the DF ability that gave him tremendous destructive potential. If he lost to Roger in a fight in their prime but had his same DF abilities would he still be called the strongest pirate/man? Based on the vivre card, I'd say no?

My point is that it was already debunked in the manga.

In Oden's flashback, we have seen Roger and Whitebeard fighting, and they were absolute equals. By that point Whitebeard already had his ability.

Once Roger died, there was no one left who could match Whitebeard, so he became "the strongest man in the world".

This is in line with what Buggy said in the manga. There's no reason to interpret it as something else.

 

[M3J]

No need, one post below that one Pirate Queen told me the number and I answered.

It's definitely CoA.


In that post I had been asked to rank Weevil in a power scale, after he was suggested to be very, very, strong. My point was that the only thing he may have at "young WBs level" is his brute strength, so of course I mentioned him not having the gura as one of the things that make him weaker to his father, but as I also said, I consider him being just a dumb brute a bigger flaw than his lack of DF.

For future reference though.

Ya, I'm just being pedantic. Even if he did have gura though, he'd probably still be weaker according to whoever compared him to his dad.

Well if Mihawk isn’t WSS then Zoro isn’t achieving his dream.

That is incorrect.

Zoro's dream isn't to beat Mihawk, it's to become the World's Strongest Swordsman. If Mihawk loses to Vista, then Vista would be Zoro's target.

And Kaido's called the strongest and his immortality is also an ability he has that's special while he's shown to be on par with other emperors in combat. That's my point. With these titles there are many factors and ways in which Oda plays with it. We have the strongest pirate having a hax ability but also equaling the pirate king. We have the strongest creature being seemingly immortal but drawing with Big Mom and probably Shanks, already.

This is why the whole Mihawk is stronger than anyone who uses a sword or Kaido is the strongest emperor and would beat the others, imo, aren't actually confirmed as people say.

What if drawing with Big Mom is like, The Irresistible Force meets the Immovable Object or whatever Hogan vs. Warrior or Andre was titled as? Big Mom's defense is a match for Kaidou's strength, while Whitebeard may not have used his hax ability against Roger or gone all out. I mean, what we've seen is the opposite of what people have said - Roger and Whitebeard did not have a winner but after fighting the two crews partied together. Who's to say Whitebeard wasn't the more superior fighter and pirate, but his ambition and Roger's did not pit them against each other?

Ya I've said that, but also, it's hard to argue that Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. It is not that hard to argue though he'd lose against an Emperor like Big Mom, who seems to be invulnerable.

 

[HereNThere]

So you agree Mihawk > Shanks and BM ? Good to know

If you don't want to have a legitimate discussion with someone, you don't have to post. You and @Pirate Queen were discussing the dreams of the crew and now you're bringing in Mihawk>Shanks for no reason at all.

 

[Fox666]

In that post I had been asked to rank Weevil in a power scale, after he was suggested to be very, very, strong. My point was that the only thing he may have at "young WBs level" is his brute strength, so of course I mentioned him not having the gura as one of the things that make him weaker to his father, but as I also said, I consider him being just a dumb brute a bigger flaw than his lack of DF.

Indeed. During the Marineford arc, Whitebeard proved to be a master strategist. That's a huge advantage.

 

[LadyVados]

If you don't want to have a legitimate discussion with someone, you don't have to post. You and @Pirate Queen were discussing the dreams of the crew and now you're bringing in Mihawk>Shanks for no reason at all.

She said that Mihawk was the strongest swordsman.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2020 ---

The official translation was not good for Kaido at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2020 ---

Ya I've said that, but also, it's hard to argue that Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. It is not that hard to argue though he'd lose against an Emperor like Big Mom, who seems to be invulnerable.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, unless you’re trying to say that Mihawk is stronger than her but will lose to her in a fight because of her invulnerability.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The official translation was not good for Kaido at all.

When Killer called Kaido the Strongest, you threw a fit because it was an in story character saying it.

Now that Zoro calls Kaido the toughest, your saying its "Not good for Kaido" as if it only took Zoro's comment to destroy his standing. Yet Zoro is the same in story character.

Your such a hypocrite.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2020 ---

She said that Mihawk was the strongest swordsman.

Because he is the WSS. But his title has to do with the skill of his swordsmanship not overall combat ability. Your just firing off random statements too... What? Somehow throw me off?

 

[Nie Li]

I think we should, once again, all stop talking about Mihawk. We all know that not everyone thinks the same characters count or don't count as "swordsmen", so we won't all ever be of the same opinion, and everybody has made their opinions clear enough.

 

[AmitDS]

My point is that it was already debunked in the manga.

In Oden's flashback, we have seen Roger and Whitebeard fighting, and they were absolute equals. By that point Whitebeard already had his ability.

Once Roger died, there was no one left who could match Whitebeard, so he became "the strongest man in the world".

This is in line with what Buggy said in the manga. There's no reason to interpret it as something else.

He had that title when Roger was alive. What you think is debunking that isn't actually debunking. He can be called the strongest and tie with Roger in combat. That's what the vivre card points to and even the narrative/manga, You are saying he's only the strongest after Roger died? Even though we know he was in his prime, and he was called the strongest before Roger died? All Buggy said was that WB was the strongest living pirate and the only man who fought equally with Roger. And this was before we found out about Garp. That doesn't mean that he failed to have the strongest pirate title when Roger was alive. Also the vivre card is newer, canon information so any way you look at it, it's not proven that he only has the title because he's Roger's equal. In fact it's the opposite. And with Big Mom, Shanks and Kaido we see something similar. Kaido is called the strongest creature and pirate likely because he's on the same level as people like Big Mom in combat and because he also has a weird immortality ability, similar to WB having a hax ability.

What if drawing with Big Mom is like, The Irresistible Force meets the Immovable Object or whatever Hogan vs. Warrior or Andre was titled as? Big Mom's defense is a match for Kaidou's strength, while Whitebeard may not have used his hax ability against Roger or gone all out. I mean, what we've seen is the opposite of what people have said - Roger and Whitebeard did not have a winner but after fighting the two crews partied together. Who's to say Whitebeard wasn't the more superior fighter and pirate, but his ambition and Roger's did not pit them against each other?

Ya I've said that, but also, it's hard to argue that Mihawk isn't the strongest swordsman. It is not that hard to argue though he'd lose against an Emperor like Big Mom, who seems to be invulnerable.

Well for these things to be true and not conjecture or headcanon I guess we'll have to wait for Oda to make it so in his manga/interviews/vivre cards etc. Right now all we know is that Kaido tied with Big Mom, Roger tied with Whitebeard and Kaido + crew had a 'skirmish' with Shanks + crew that seemingly did nothing to Shanks who got what he wanted in the end (to go to Marineford).

 

[LadyVados]

IMO

Doffy- YC2 level

Pica-YC3 level

Vergo- YC3.5 level

 

[M3J]

Well for these things to be true and not conjecture or headcanon I guess we'll have to wait for Oda to make it so in his manga/interviews/vivre cards etc. Right now all we know is that Kaido tied with Big Mom, Roger tied with Whitebeard and Kaido + crew had a 'skirmish' with Shanks + crew that seemingly did nothing to Shanks who got what he wanted in the end (to go to Marineford).

I'm not sure if we should ever consider interviews fact until the manga is over. Same with vivre cards and character statements unless backed or proven.

 

[McNuss]

I'm not sure if we should ever consider interviews fact until the manga is over. Same with vivre cards and character statements unless backed or proven.

The databooks have Eiichiro Oda listed as the author, and the interviews are the closest thing we get from him.

Both are canon.

I don't get this communities obsession with titles.

Is Christiano Ronaldo the best football (soccer) player or is it Messi? Or was it Pelle? Right now, there are likely many people that claim it was Maradona...

In sports you have thousands of these examples. Xy is the best <insert sport> and there is no definite way to measure it.

Anyways I proclaim that as long as she is in the right state of mind*, Big Mom is the strongest. And that's true both for the post Xebec Roger era and the present time.

*No craving, amnesia or Carmel trauma.

 

[LadyVados]

Is Christiano Ronaldo the best football (soccer) player or is it Messi? Or was it Pelle? Right now, there are likely many people that claim it was Maradona...

In sports you have thousands of these examples. Xy is the best <insert sport> and there is no definite way to measure it.

The difference is that this is a fictional world and Oda probably does intend for a certain character or characters to be undisputed strongest. Most verses have clear power hierarchies (at least taking extremely haxed characters out of the equation)

 

[Pirate Queen]

We all know Blackbeard is going to be the undisputed strongest by the end of the Manga. This is shounene afterall

 

[LadyVados]

Do you guys think Sanji will be as strong as a Yonko by EOS ? I personally think he will be roughly on that level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2020 ---

We all know Blackbeard is going to be the undisputed strongest by the end of the Manga. This is shounene afterall

You don’t think Luffy will be equal to or stronger than BB ?

 

[Nie Li]

I wouldn't mind if Kaido stays cemented as the strongest that was brought down through team effort. If he dies this arc, no matter how much stronger Blackbeard or Luffy get, or how strong Mihawk turns out to be, no one will be able to deny that "Kaido was stronger", since there will be no way to compare their power for sure after he's dead.

And it won't really matter since the rest of the Yonko are likely to go down 1 on 1.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do you guys think Sanji will be as strong as a Yonko by EOS ? I personally think he will be roughly on that level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2020 ---

You don’t think Luffy will be equal to or stronger than BB ?

No. Shonen is usually like this. Final Villans are always too much for the MC.

MC almost NEVER faces a final Villan solo.

Finishing hit? Sure? Does the majority of the damage? Yes... Solo? No.

That's not how shounen works.

 

[LadyVados]

I wouldn't mind if Kaido stays cemented as the strongest that was brought down through team effort. If he dies this arc, no matter how much stronger Blackbeard or Luffy get, or how strong Mihawk turns out to be, no one will be able to deny that "Kaido was stronger", since there will be no way to compare their power for sure after he's dead.

And it won't really matter since the rest of the Yonko are likely to go down 1 on 1.

We know Kaido couldn’t beat BM within 3 days, so if someone beats BM and the battle lasts less than 3 days, you could argue that person is definitively stronger than Kaido.

 

[Pirate Queen]

We know Kaido couldn’t beat BM within 3 days, so if someone beats BM and the battle lasts less than 3 days, you could argue that person is definitively stronger than Kaido.

Thats not accurate at all. Your missing so much context in such a short comment

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

We know Kaido couldn’t beat BM within 3 days, so if someone beats BM and the battle lasts less than 3 days, you could argue that person is definitively stronger than Kaido.

Thats not accurate at all. Your missing so much context in such a short comment

so so tired of this, kaido and big mum were not going serious at it, it's similar to roger vs whitebeard , it was more like a serious sparring session then they partied after

it's actually the exact same thing, neither injured each other at all, they weren't truly going at it, plus wasn't it just 12 hours
kaido vs big mum

rooger vs whitebeard

 

[Nie Li]

We know Kaido couldn’t beat BM within 3 days, so if someone beats BM and the battle lasts less than 3 days, you could argue that person is definitively stronger than Kaido.

I have to disagree since that, to me, was just a "friendly" encounter in which none of them seemed to neither go all out nor at least use most of their skills. Kaido didn't even transform as far as we saw.