One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Shasha23]

That's just a baseless accusation.

Sanji might've failed when it came to Nami but that is irrelevent when taking into account the outcome of battle of strengths which is the relevant part for us.

How many "actual 1v1 fights" did Jinbei even have? As far as I know he didn't even have as many Franky did. Does that mean Jinbei is weaker than Franky? While Franky may have had more panel time, Jinbei is more known than Franky. Over all, Jinbei should be weaker than Franky since he didn't have as many fights or panel time but is that really the case though? Panel time doesn't say anything about actual powerlevels but I do not disagree that infamy potentially can. Characters having more fights helps us in deducing their power levels since we get to see more about their power but the number of fights (or wins) they've had itself doesn't say anything about their power levels.

Luffy and Zoro have had more opportunities to fight "an actual 1v1" since the story allowed for it and therefore could rack up more wins. The number of wins themselves don't mean a thing again anyway.

Ok then think what you will but we can all see what you are doing.

Sanji didn't beat Absalom, the guy ran away with Nami and Sanji said he failed, you thinking otherwise is irrelevent.

Like i said Jinbe has 0*, he has not won 1 fight since joining the crew, your off the wall argument won't work since we won't calculate fights that happened before 1 became part of the SHP, if you refuse to look at every SHP fight before anyone joining then we can look at Wano, Luffy and Zoro fighting Kaido and Big Mum the weaker members dealing with the other weaker enemies, fights matter when calculating power levels, the very fact that Sanji rarely fights and when he does he fights joke character or people who arent even famous to begin with should tell you that Sanji is and will never be viewed as equal to Luffy and Zoro in Oda's eyes.

As a matter of fact the number of fights do matter, its a way for Oda to showcase the level of the crew, and no matter how you try to refute this the FACT still doesn't change that Luffy and Zoro have had more fights and are clearly far stronger than the rest of the SHP.

The number of wins are a part of the fact, its stupid to completely discard 1 part of evidence because it does not click with your logic.
Fight count, infamy, portrayal, and story relevance are all factors to be included in power scaling, discarding 1 just because you don't like it is foolish.

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

Ok then think what you will but we can all see what you are doing.

This is just useless and unnecessary rhetoric.

Sanji didn't beat Absalom, the guy ran away with Nami and Sanji said he failed, you thinking otherwise is irrelevent.

Sanji may have said that he failed at rescuing Nami not that he failed by being weaker in power than Absalom.

Like i said Jinbe has 0*, he has not won 1 fight since joining the crew, your off the wall argument won't work since we won't calculate fights that happened before 1 became part of the SHP

This is a problem, now? Earlier when you counted the wins Luffy and Zoro had before Sanji joined the Strawhats and I said that the information is biased you said I was spinning it by not counting the wins.

As a matter of fact the number of fights do matter, its a way for Oda to showcase the level of the crew, and no matter how you try to refute this the FACT still doesn't change that Luffy and Zoro have had more fights and are clearly far stronger than the rest of the SHP.

The number of wins are a part of the fact, its stupid to completely discard 1 part of evidence because it does not click with your logic.
Fight count, infamy, portrayal, and story relevance are all factors to be included in power scaling, discarding 1 just because you don't like it is foolish.

It's a way for Oda to showcase the level of a crew true. It's a fact, true. But powerlevels are based off on what is being showcased in the fights one may have and not the number themselves.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2021 ---

if you refuse to look at every SHP fight before anyone joining then we can look at Wano, Luffy and Zoro fighting Kaido and Big Mum the weaker members dealing with the other weaker enemies, fights matter when calculating power levels, the very fact that Sanji rarely fights and when he does he fights joke character or people who arent even famous to begin with should tell you that Sanji is and will never be viewed as equal to Luffy and Zoro in Oda's eyes.

The correct conclusion should be that we don't know where he exactly stands in terms of power since he hasn't had a chance to fight an actual opponent where there wasn't a huge difference in power. Drawing a conclusion that he's definitely weak because we haven't seen much from him in comparision to Zoro or Luffy is faulty.

 

[Shasha23]

This is just useless and unnecessary rhetoric.

As you wish

Sanji may have said that he failed at rescuing Nami not that he failed by being weaker in power than Absalom.

No one said Sanji was weaker than Absalom, your biased nature is just blocking you from accepting or rather understanding what I'm saying

This is a problem, now? Earlier when you counted the wins Luffy and Zoro had before Sanji joined the Strawhats and I said that the information is biased you said I was spinning it by not counting the wins.

Like I said before it doesn't matter when one joined the very fact they don't have as many fights shows they are not as relevant as those with a lot of fight,
Jinbe joining now or if he joined from chapter 1 wouldn't change the fact that Luffy and Zoro will always have more fights and better portrayals than him.
You keep coming to the fact Sanji joined later but yet again before Sanji joining Luffy had 3 wins and Zoro 2 if you exclude those Luffy would still have 11 and Zoro 10 with Sanji still on 4, same number as Franky and 1 less than Chopper.

It's a way for Oda to showcase the level of a crew true. It's a fact, true. But powerlevels are based off on what is being showcased in the fights one may have and not the number themselves.

Yes those fights are a part of what one needs to take into account, I have never said the fights themselves are the only relevance in power scaling but a part of it, and since Sanji like the rest of the crew never fights, his overall level will always be low until he fights again, that is why Luffy and Zoro are always shown to be stronger than them all since Oda always has them showcase new feats pushing them closer to the top since that is their dream, the rest of the crew will never have the same portrayal since Oda has never intended for them being at the top of the world, their role is to be strong enough to not fail and that's what they have been doing and will keep doing.

The correct conclusion should be that we don't know where he exactly stands in terms of power since he hasn't had a chance to fight an actual opponent where there wasn't a huge difference in power. Drawing a conclusion that he's definitely weak because we haven't seen much from him in comparision to Zoro or Luffy is faulty.

You are again ignoring the fights because Luffy and Zoro keep fighting stronger and stronger opponents they themselves improve rapidly, while those who never fight have a steady increase, the fights are a way for Oda to show who will reach the top and who wont, it would be pointless for Oda to show fights of the crew since they arent as relevant.

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

No one said Sanji was weaker than Absalom, your biased nature is just blocking you from accepting or rather understanding what I'm saying

Okay. By "weaker", I meant that Sanji didn't say that he failed at saving Nami because he couldn't defeat Absalom. I posted the page where Absalom was clearly overpowered by Sanji and that was the end of that fight, and it was a few chapters after that Oars or whatever that giant was caused a commotion and that was where Sanji lost Nami. Sanji losing Nami had nothing to do with Sanji's strength. If Absalom could clearly still fight then why didn't he do so and why did he just take Nami and run away?

The other factors like portrayal, infamy are just weak as factors to conclude that Sanji is far weaker than Zoro and Luffy.

Yes those fights are a part of what one needs to take into account, I have never said the fights themselves are the only relevance in power scaling but a part of it, and since Sanji like the rest of the crew never fights, his overall level will always be low until he fights again, that is why Luffy and Zoro are always shown to be stronger than them all since Oda always has them showcase new feats pushing them closer to the top since that is their dream, the rest of the crew will never have the same portrayal since Oda has never intended for them being at the top of the world, their role is to be strong enough to not fail and that's what they have been doing and will keep doing.

Growth happens when characters are pushed towards the edge. Almost all of Zoro's fights post timeskip, if not all, have been easy for him.

Zoro : Cabaji, Buchi and Shan, Hachi, Mr.1, Braham, Orm, T-Bone, Kaku, Ryuma, Hyouzou, Pica, Killer

Sanji has fought plenty enough pre timeskip. He hasn't fought enough post time skip. But, from the ones you have listed here, his fights against Hyouzou, Pica and Killer (which are post timeskip) didn't push him towards the edge and he wasn't in a position where he had extreme difficulty overcoming the adversary. I admit I'm not sure about his fight versus Killer but there probably wouldn't have been much growth anyway.

We just don't know how close or distant Sanji and Zoro are now since we are still yet to see Sanji having "an actual 1v1". And, as a reminder, drawing a conclusion that he's definitely weak because we haven't seen much from him in comparision to Zoro or Luffy is faulty.

 

[Shasha23]

Okay. By "weaker", I meant that Sanji didn't say that he failed at saving Nami because he couldn't defeat Absalom. I posted the page where Absalom was clearly overpowered by Sanji and that was the end of that fight, and it was a few chapters after that Oars or whatever that giant was caused a commotion and that was where Sanji lost Nami. Sanji losing Nami had nothing to do with Sanji's strength. If Absalom could clearly still fight then why didn't he do so and why did he just take Nami and run away?

I specifically said fights that ended in wins no?
Sanji never beat Absalom, the fact that he was stronger doesn't matter the point is he never beat him.

The other factors like portrayal, infamy are just weak as factors to conclude that Sanji is far weaker than Zoro and Luffy.

How so since the story is blatantly obvious to the fact that Luffy and Zoro are far stronger than Sanji

Growth happens when characters are pushed towards the edge. Almost all of Zoro's fights post timeskip, if not all, have been easy for him.
Zoro : Cabaji, Buchi and Shan, Hachi, Mr.1, Braham, Orm, T-Bone, Kaku, Ryuma, Hyouzou, Pica, Killer

Yes but during those fights he was polishing his skills, to the point that now he is able to fight 2 yonkos

Sanji has fought plenty enough pre timeskip. He hasn't fought enough post time skip. But, from the ones you have listed here, his fights against Hyouzou, Pica and Killer (which are post timeskip) didn't push him towards the edge and he wasn't in a position where he had extreme difficulty overcoming the adversary. I admit I'm not sure about his fight versus Killer but there probably wouldn't have been much growth anyway.

Sanji only fought and beat 4 people pretimeskip which is not plenty!
The very fact that after beating pica Zoro commented on how there was still room for improvement means during the fight he learned something which he was lacking, during his fight with Killer he learned not to drop his guard, but ill agree vs Hyouzu he probably didn't learn a thing from that fight.

We just don't know how close or distant Sanji and Zoro are now since we are still yet to see Sanji having "an actual 1v1". And, as a reminder, drawing a conclusion that he's definitely weak because we haven't seen much from him in comparision to Zoro or Luffy is faulty.

That is a weak argument, the very fact that Sanji was struggling against Vergo and Zoro pretty much OHKO Pica is evidence enough that at that point Zoro was far stronger than Sanji, for me from what I have seen from the story after the 2 years Zoro and Luffy came back far stronger than everyone to the point that Oda felt that Sanji needed the Raid Suit in order to boost him but even with that its still pretty clear that Sanji is still lacking compared to those 2 and not by a bit.
There are other examples I can give like how Sanji was helpless vs Doffy but Zoro was able to fight back against an admiral, even said admiral told the other vice admirals with him to stand back since Zoro was far off their level

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

I specifically said fights that ended in wins no?
Sanji never beat Absalom, the fact that he was stronger doesn't matter the point is he never beat him.

Absalom ran away. He lost. If he didn't, he would've continued to fight Sanji. It's a win in my book.

How so since the story is blatantly obvious to the fact that Luffy and Zoro are far stronger than Sanji

Where do you see Sanji being blatantly being portrayed as far weaker than Zoro and Luffy? I mean, you don't have to show it for Luffy since it's very much obvious to us readers but Zoro though? And even if there's a great difference, these things are just perceptions and might not match reality.

Yes but during those fights he was polishing his skills, to the point that now he is able to fight 2 yonkos

Sanji only fought and beat 4 people pretimeskip which is not plenty!
The very fact that after beating pica Zoro commented on how there was still room for improvement means during the fight he learned something which he was lacking, during his fight with Killer he learned not to drop his guard, but ill agree vs Hyouzu he probably didn't learn a thing from that fight.

That is a weak argument, the very fact that Sanji was struggling against Vergo and Zoro pretty much OHKO Pica is evidence enough that at that point Zoro was far stronger than Sanji, for me from what I have seen from the story after the 2 years Zoro and Luffy came back far stronger than everyone to the point that Oda felt that Sanji needed the Raid Suit in order to boost him but even with that its still pretty clear that Sanji is still lacking compared to those 2 and not by a bit.
There are other examples I can give like how Sanji was helpless vs Doffy but Zoro was able to fight back against an admiral, even said admiral told the other vice admirals with him to stand back since Zoro was far off their level

Polishing his skills is different from learning something entirely new and the "new" should actually make a noticeable difference. I'm not sure what exactly he learned with Pica but Zoro should already know that he isn't supposed to drop his guard. He is not a novice. I don't think he really learned anything against Killer there.

For all we know, Vergo's defenses could just be tougher than Pica's. Has Zoro cut something that was as tough as Vergo's defenses? Also, IIRC Sanji wasn't at this best when he fought Vergo.

From what you say, what we get is that Zoro is definitely stronger than a Vice Admiral. But I'm sure he isn't as strong as an Admiral. He lies somewhere between those two ends. And I would also say Doflamingo also lies between an Admiral and Vice admiral. Also, from what we have seen the gap between an admiral and a vice-admiral is pretty big. So it's entirely possible that Sanji and Zoro lie closer to each other in that space or maybe distant from each other. Can't really say anything concrete from this information.

 

[Shasha23]

Absalom ran away. He lost. If he didn't, he would've continued to fight Sanji. It's a win in my book.

Well in my count I didn't include such outcomes since if I did then Luffy would have 20 wins and Zoro would have 17, it really doesn't matter to me since I will only count clear win and Sanji never archived what he wanted.

Where do you see Sanji being blatantly being portrayed as far weaker than Zoro and Luffy? I mean, you don't have to show it for Luffy since it's very much obvious to us readers but Zoro though? And even if there's a great difference, these things are just perceptions and might not match reality.

He is equal to a weaker vice admiral while Zoro said to be above a stronger vice-admiral than the one who gave Sanji a hard time, it cant be spelt out more obvious than that.
One can only reach such perceptions from what is being depicted, and so far Oda has been clear in his message that Luffy and Zoro are far above Sanji.

Polishing his skills is different from learning something entirely new and the "new" should actually make a noticeable difference. I'm not sure what exactly he learned with Pica but Zoro should already know that he isn't supposed to drop his guard. He is not a novice. I don't think he really learned anything against Killer there.

Polishing should improve the skill, there is no much difference the fact is power is being improved.
The fact that he fought someone strong was probably enough for him, even if he didn't learn a thing does it really matter that much given he had just beaten someone capable to fight 2 yonko?

For all we know, Vergo's defenses could just be tougher than Pica's. Has Zoro cut something that was as tough as Vergo's defenses? Also, IIRC Sanji wasn't at this best when he fought Vergo.

There is no basis for such a conclusion other than biase.
Zoro cut Pica someone who is a level above Vergo, so yes Zoro has cut someone with higher defence than Vergo not to forget that he gave Kaido a huge scar to the side.

From what you say, what we get is that Zoro is definitely stronger than a Vice Admiral. But I'm sure he isn't as strong as an Admiral. He lies somewhere between those two ends. And I would also say Doflamingo also lies between an Admiral and Vice admiral. Also, from what we have seen the gap between an admiral and a vice-admiral is pretty big. So it's entirely possible that Sanji and Zoro lie closer to each other in that space or maybe distant from each other. Can't really say anything concrete from this information.

Sanji couldn't do much vs Vergo while ill agree with his Raid Suit Sanji should be able to drop Vergo, but Zoro at the time easily beat someone above Vergo and even Fujitora knew that other than him no one there was a match for Zoro, so now you cant go saying just because Zoro can do 1;2;3 that means Sanji can, that's not how it works, for you to say Sanji can do something he actually needs to do it first which he hasn't, so until then Sanji is at the same level as an average vice admiral, veteran NW captain and commanding officer in a yonko crew a level Zoro has shown to be far above more so at this point since he is about to beat not 1 but 2 yonko.

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

Well in my count I didn't include such outcomes since if I did then Luffy would have 20 wins and Zoro would have 17, it really doesn't matter to me since I will only count clear win and Sanji never archived what he wanted.

I really doubt Luffy and Zoro would get the number of wins you're saying they'd get.

He is equal to a weaker vice admiral while Zoro said to be above a stronger vice-admiral than the one who gave Sanji a hard time, it cant be spelt out more obvious than that.
One can only reach such perceptions from what is being depicted, and so far Oda has been clear in his message that Luffy and Zoro are far above Sanji.

Who are these weaker vice admiral and stronger vice admiral here?

Polishing should improve the skill, there is no much difference the fact is power is being improved.
The fact that he fought someone strong was probably enough for him, even if he didn't learn a thing does it really matter that much given he had just beaten someone capable to fight 2 yonko?

But by how much did his power actually improve? And what exactly is "power" here? Killer is working in a team with others to defeat Yonko. He isn't someone like Nami or Usopp obviously. But how strong do you think one has to be to say that they can go against two yonko while not being a burden?

There is no basis for such a conclusion other than biase.
Zoro cut Pica someone who is a level above Vergo, so yes Zoro has cut someone with higher defence than Vergo not to forget that he gave Kaido a huge scar to the side.

Sanji couldn't do much vs Vergo while ill agree with his Raid Suit Sanji should be able to drop Vergo, but Zoro at the time easily beat someone above Vergo and even Fujitora knew that other than him no one there was a match for Zoro, so now you cant go saying just because Zoro can do 1;2;3 that means Sanji can, that's not how it works, for you to say Sanji can do something he actually needs to do it first which he hasn't, so until then Sanji is at the same level as an average vice admiral, veteran NW captain and commanding officer in a yonko crew a level Zoro has shown to be far above more so at this point since he is about to beat not 1 but 2 yonko.

I haven't reached a conclusion here at all. I was covering all bases when I said Vergo's defence could be tougher than Pica's and when I asked if Zoro had cut anyone tougher than Vergo. But, it's true that Zoro would've grown stronger because of Enma now. But then again Sanji has his Raid Suit.

You're saying Vergo is weaker than Pica. I ask, how?

It's safe to say that those people who were besides Fujitora there were weak and that doesn't say much at all.

I never said that Sanji could do everything Zoro can, but for you to say that he cannot do it should be shown that he cannot as well. It goes both ways especially now that since he has Raid Suit.

And here again, Zoro is working in a team with others. How far away from a commanding officer do you think Zoro is?

 

[LaGOAT]

luffy
zoro
jimbei
sanji
franky
brook
robin
chopper
nami
usopp

 

[Ellenate]

i'm so ahead of the curve-

the only thing i'd change about my SH rankings is maybe putting "raid suit" sanji below franky (i think i gave sanji too much credit).

 

[kkck]

So... a beat up sanji is on collision course with a half dead jack. So.. Feats incoming? I suppose it's technically an improvement over baking a cake. It's almost probably a step forward in regards to how sanji is handled... or mishandled? I suppose jack has not shown his hybrid for yet. Can't say i like sanji's odds at least. Maybe the clutch suit has something like an overclock mode that further multiplies sanji's beat up strength to further level the playing field.

 

[cubetro]

I really doubt Luffy and Zoro would get the number of wins you're saying they'd get.




Who are these weaker vice admiral and stronger vice admiral here?




But by how much did his power actually improve? And what exactly is "power" here? Killer is working in a team with others to defeat Yonko. He isn't someone like Nami or Usopp obviously. But how strong do you think one has to be to say that they can go against two yonko while not being a burden?



I haven't reached a conclusion here at all. I was covering all bases when I said Vergo's defence could be tougher than Pica's and when I asked if Zoro had cut anyone tougher than Vergo. But, it's true that Zoro would've grown stronger because of Enma now. But then again Sanji has his Raid Suit.

You're saying Vergo is weaker than Pica. I ask, how?

It's safe to say that those people who were besides Fujitora there were weak and that doesn't say much at all.

I never said that Sanji could do everything Zoro can, but for you to say that he cannot do it should be shown that he cannot as well. It goes both ways especially now that since he has Raid Suit.

And here again, Zoro is working in a team with others. How far away from a commanding officer do you think Zoro is?

LOL you know what he said in the other thread?

I asked him who’s consider top fighters in their crew, and he said all the commanders (kaido big mom whitebeard) are only above average

He expect Sanji to stay and handle the commander, because that’s all he can handle, hence Sanji is only above average, and so is someone the likes of king, queen, Marco, cracker....

He said the only second in command who is consider a top fighter would be Zoro and Rayleigh... yet neglect the fact that rogers called Rayleigh and gaban as his best 2 subordinate .....

don’t let his avatar fool you, I think he’s actually a hardcore Zoro fan

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2021 ---

Luffy pretty much OHKO Alvida and that doesn't really count as fight. Besides, more importantly, Sanji did not even join the crew when Luffy fought Alvida, Mohji and Richie and Kuro IIRC, so, this places Sanji at a disadvantage and this is biased since we're talking about win count here. That leaves us with 11 battles of Luffy.

In Zoro's case, him fighting Cabaji, and Buchi and Shan doesn't count since Sanji wasn't part of the crew yet when he fought them.

Zoro's fight with T-Bone, Hyouzou shouldn't count either since they were OHKO. And I'm not sure if the fight with Killer would count as a real fight as well.

If you want to count them then you should also count Sanji winning against Sheepshead, Absalom as well.

That leaves us with 10 or 7 battles of Zoro depending on whether you want to count the fights with T-Bone, Hyozou and Killer.

And Sanji has either 6 or 3 real fights depending on whether you count Wanze, Absalom and Sheepshead.

That means that the final count is either [Luffy - 11,Zoro - 10,Sanji - 6] or [11,7,3].

But then again, you cannot guage where Sanji stands based on how many wins he has had since it would tell us nothing about his power. If Sanji had more opportunities to fight opponents that match his power level and rack up more wins (and those wins are something you count as fights) than Luffy then that would mean he's strongest of the crew and that's wrong.




I don't watch Basketball but if you're saying that the number of battles one has nothing to do with their actual power level then I agree with it.

Yes! That’s exactly what I mean. Thompson doesn’t get as much basketball touches as curry and Durant, but that doesn’t he’s a slouch.

obviously curry (Luffy) and durant (Zoro) are more talented than Thompson (Sanji), but Thompson (Sanji) is still major part of their frontline offense.

 

[M3J]

So... a beat up sanji is on collision course with a half dead jack. So.. Feats incoming? I suppose it's technically an improvement over baking a cake. It's almost probably a step forward in regards to how sanji is handled... or mishandled? I suppose jack has not shown his hybrid for yet. Can't say i like sanji's odds at least. Maybe the clutch suit has something like an overclock mode that further multiplies sanji's beat up strength to further level the playing field.

Sanji will likely win, especially given it's not the first time he's had a fight injured against a strong opponent and still won. Assuming Jack is his arc boss opponent. I don't get how people still underestimate the STraw Hats when they've continuously proven how determined they are in winning no matter how hurt they are.

 

[slavkovski]

He said the only second in command who is consider a top fighter would be Zoro and Rayleigh... yet neglect the fact that rogers called Rayleigh and gaban as his best 2 subordinate .....

Can you showed where does roger ever say this? I didn't think i ever see it and this is one of the things that i question some times ago when scopper gaban name suddenly become popular.

 

[cubetro]

Can you showed where does roger ever say this? I didn't think i ever see it and this is one of the things that i question some times ago when scopper gaban name suddenly become popular.

Chapter 966, I believe it was when they met Oden.
Then again, for the sake of argument, someone could say that wasn’t at Rogers final journey, so maybe Rayleigh became a lot more stronger than gaban

 

[slavkovski]

Chapter 966, I believe it was when they met Oden.
Then again, for the sake of argument, someone could say that wasn’t at Rogers final journey, so maybe Rayleigh became a lot more stronger than gaban

Oh that's what you mean, but the scopper gaban name for me just suddenly appear out of nowhere quite some time ago and not because of that chapter i believe..

 

[cubetro]

Oh that's what you mean, but the scopper gaban name for me just suddenly appear out of nowhere quite some time ago and not because of that chapter i believe..

Yeah, his name actually popped up a while ago, I forgot when, and it led to speculation he was the 3rd in command based on his name (GOL D. Rogers, SILVERs Rayleigh, sCOOPER Gaban)

I guess it was confirmed in that chapter that he is indeed another one of Roger's best men. So when people keep bringing up how Luffy mirrors Rogers, but doesn't acknowledge that Sanji is one of the powerhouse fighters as well.

I mean, it's been said multiple times, amongst more sensible fan, that Zoro > Sanji, definitely not marginally, but not that big of a gap that Sanji is still one of the feature fighters.

I mean if you want to use the mirror argument, then for sure there has to be a capable 3rd in command, which would be a toss of between Sanji and Jimbei. I would imagine that would be Sanji just based on story progression.

 

[M3J]

THe funny thing about Sanji is that in his intro arc, he literally let himself get beaten up by Pearl despite doing well against him simply because Zeff's life was on the line, which made him unable to beat Gin. And yet despite all that, Gin couldn't kill Sanji because of Sanji's kindness, and he saved Sanji or Luffy when Krieg tried to poison them.

And while Sanji took a mild beating from Khalifa, he was still able to take on Jabura and win. Dude disappeared near the end but he thought ahead and got the gates closed so the crew could make it out safely.

He also took a lot of damage against Absalom and still fought Oars, and even stood up at the end despite taking even more damage. He probably took more damage than Zoro, which is why Zoro's hit knocked him out, but Sanji was one of the few still standing.

Sanji's severely underestimated and trolled. Dude's still a part of the Monster Trio, if not Quartet now, and he's still an extremely formidable fighter, especially for someone whose main role isn't a fighter.

 

[I Am Atomic]

He probably took more damage than Zoro, which is why Zoro's hit knocked him out

You were doing so well until this. Let facts speak for themselves, clearly didn't need an assumption and spark more useless debates.

You can't measure damage like that. Especially, when its different opponents and also Zoro being a Tank!

 

[M3J]

You were doing so well until this. Let facts speak for themselves, clearly didn't need an assumption and spark more useless debates.

You can't measure damage like that. Especially, when its different opponents and also Zoro being a Tank!

People like to forget facts. but prove me wrong here, did Zoro take damage from Ryuuma? From anyone else?

But it's also about taking damage. Sanji is a tank too, I don't get why we're ignoring tha.t