One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

VC rankings have to have Katakuri over both King and Queen after this arc. Already tired and injured Zoro and Sanji are about to beat them here. Neither are at Luffy in WCI level from what we've seen. Zoro comes closest with his new sword, but in terms of awareness haki and armament haki, they are both behind where Luffy was.

Meaning from the people we know, Katakuri > King >= Queen. Don't know where Smoothie slots in. Cracker would be below all of those I think. Shanks crew would be above, or maybe at Katakuri level, but I think Beckman is above for sure. and it's likel Shilew is above Katakuri level as well when all is said and done.

Spoiler: Chapter 1017 Spoiler

I think it's too soon to say this.

Zoro's apparently getting fully healed for his King fight so King might not be that much weaker than Katakuri, if weaker at all. Katakuri was very special with his CoO but every YC1 is supposed to have their unique strengths and weakness so they can be at his level even without the foresight CoO.

There's also the absurd way in which Zoro and Sanji just levelup between arcs from just offscreen training. Featwise, we know Zoro has now at least better CoO and CoA than some of the scabbards even before the Enma-exclusive feats, on top of being a strength-based blitzer. With Enma he's undoubtedly above WCI Luffy (but peaking in CoA instead of in CoO).

I agree on Beckman and Shilew likely being a cut above the rest, but the others probably rank around the same place, even Marco. Marco is a hard opponent with his unique regeneration ability and is "playing around" with Queen and King, but hasn't really managed to hurt King other than push him around and barely made Queen split some blood (which is nothing for an ancient zoan). His regeneration has a limit and he's having to regenerate from King's attacks, so a drawn all-out battle could very well in Marco losing.

Let's wait and see what King and Queen have in store before setting their strength in stone. I'm defending them but they could always disappoint me too.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Spoiler: Chapter 1017 Spoiler

I think it's too soon to say this.

Zoro's apparently getting fully healed for his King fight so King might not be that much weaker than Katakuri, if weaker at all. Katakuri was very special with his CoO but every YC1 is supposed to have their unique strengths and weakness so they can be at his level even without the foresight CoO.

There's also the absurd way in which Zoro and Sanji just levelup between arcs from just offscreen training. Featwise, we know Zoro has now at least better CoO and CoA than some of the scabbards even before the Enma-exclusive feats, on top of being a strength-based blitzer. With Enma he's undoubtedly above WCI Luffy (but peaking in CoA instead of in CoO).

I agree on Beckman and Shilew likely being a cut above the rest, but the others probably rank around the same place, even Marco. Marco is a hard opponent with his unique regeneration ability and is "playing around" with Queen and King, but hasn't really managed to hurt King other than push him around and barely made Queen split some blood (which is nothing for an ancient zoan). His regeneration has a limit and he's having to regenerate from King's attacks, so a drawn all-out battle could very well in Marco losing.

Let's wait and see what King and Queen have in store before setting their strength in stone. I'm defending them but they could always disappoint me too.

I don’t think anything indicates that shillew is a cut above the other first mates or YC1 , Magellan contained and that’s not to say Magellan isn’t very poweful but not sure how that places him above Marco katakuri and king , he might end up being but I don’t see it for him


Notning implies that katakuri is stronger than king , one piece has power development and growth , Luffy went from yc3 to yc1 to fighting yonkou
It’s what happens , they get much stronger very fast

 

[Nie Li]

I don’t think anything indicates that shillew is a cut above the other first mates or YC1 , Magellan contained and that’s not to say Magellan isn’t very poweful but not sure how that places him above Marco katakuri and king , he might end up being but I don’t see it for him


Notning implies that katakuri is stronger than king , one piece has power development and growth , Luffy went from yc3 to yc1 to fighting yonkou
It’s what happens , they get much stronger very fast

I only expect that from Shiliew due to hype. If Blackbeard is Luffy's ultimate pirate opponent, Shiliew should be a very tough fight for Zoro. If Shiliew is at King's level, either Zoro won't grow stronger from now until then, or he will demolish Shiliew.

I think Shiliew was just incredibly badass as a swordsman to be considered to be as strong as Magellan. If we consider that he could have grown in strength like his captain has and now his deadly swordsmanship is also invisible, I think Oda can justify him being a cut above most YC1.

But yes, if we only strictly consider shown feats, Shiliew isn't even on Katakuri's level.

 

[thedude]

I only expect that from Shiliew due to hype. If Blackbeard is Luffy's ultimate pirate opponent, Shiliew should be a very tough fight for Zoro. If Shiliew is at King's level, either Zoro won't grow stronger from now until then, or he will demolish Shiliew.

I think Shiliew was just incredibly badass as a swordsman to be considered to be as strong as Magellan. If we consider that he could have grown in strength like his captain has and now his deadly swordsmanship is also invisible, I think Oda can justify him being a cut above most YC1.

But yes, if we only strictly consider shown feats, Shiliew isn't even on Katakuri's level.

Right, that's my logic as well:

This is a shonen manga, and BB will be a tougher opponent for Luffy to beat that anyone he has beaten before, and his crew will likewise be the strongest/toughest matches for his crew, ergo, they are stronger than Kaido's crew.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I only expect that from Shiliew due to hype. If Blackbeard is Luffy's ultimate pirate opponent, Shiliew should be a very tough fight for Zoro. If Shiliew is at King's level, either Zoro won't grow stronger from now until then, or he will demolish Shiliew.

I think Shiliew was just incredibly badass as a swordsman to be considered to be as strong as Magellan. If we consider that he could have grown in strength like his captain has and now his deadly swordsmanship is also invisible, I think Oda can justify him being a cut above most YC1.

But yes, if we only strictly consider shown feats, Shiliew isn't even on Katakuri's level.

Right, that's my logic as well:

This is a shonen manga, and BB will be a tougher opponent for Luffy to beat that anyone he has beaten before, and his crew will likewise be the strongest/toughest matches for his crew, ergo, they are stronger than Kaido's crew.

Not even 100% sure of that, where’s the growth supposed to come from ? He’s an old dude and he got an okay DF fruit
There’s only so much stronger than he get
He didn’t get some OP DF fruit
He’s gonna be just okay
He isn’t a young supernova or what not
Only so much growth

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah I'm not convinced King>Queen, let alot King>Katakuri

 

[Nie Li]

Not even 100% sure of that, where’s the growth supposed to come from ? He’s an old dude and he got an okay DF fruit
There’s only so much stronger than he get
He didn’t get some OP DF fruit
He’s gonna be just okay
He isn’t a young supernova or what not
Only so much growth

Tbh the efficiency of his DF depends on how Oda plays the CoO card. His invisibility is a huge upgrade as a very strong swordsman (his slashes should already be hard to follow when he's visible), but if Oda makes it so he can be seen with CoO then it's suddenly the most useless DF in the manga. lol

About getting stronger... no idea, we'll see. Perhaps he could not grow physically stronger because of his age but he could always develop forms of haki that he missed before?

Yeah I'm not convinced King>Queen, let alot King>Katakuri

Oda could always reveal the contrary (regarding King and Queen) but that's what he at least intends us to expect (going by the Poker card theme of the crew with Numbers, Jack, Queen, King (and as originally intended "Joker" (Doflamingo)).

The theme could always be a red herring, but so far I see no reason to doubt it other than that Queen showed off a lot more powers and techniques against Marco while King just slashed once or twice.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Tbh the efficiency of his DF depends on how Oda plays the CoO card. His invisibility is a huge upgrade as a very strong swordsman (his slashes should already be hard to follow when he's visible), but if Oda makes it so he can be seen with CoO then it's suddenly the most useless DF in the manga. lol

About getting stronger... no idea, we'll see. Perhaps he could not grow physically stronger because of his age but he could always develop forms of haki that he missed before?


Oda could always reveal the contrary (regarding King and Queen) but that's what he at least intends us to expect (going by the Poker card theme of the crew with Numbers, Jack, Queen, King (and as originally intended "Joker" (Doflamingo)).

The theme could always be a red herring, but so far I see no reason to doubt it other than that Queen showed off a lot more powers and techniques against Marco while King just slashed once or twice.

I'm thinking more towards Queen's ability to infect King over the course of any fight the 2 have. We have the Mummy and Ice Oni Virus. Both insanely effective. Also cybernetic enhancements.

King I doubt will have something outside of insane durability and strength as he is being saved for Zoro(my personal opinion)

I think they could just be insanely close in overall combat ability.

 

[Nie Li]

I'm thinking more towards Queen's ability to infect King over the course of any fight the 2 have. We have the Mummy and Ice Oni Virus. Both insanely effective. Also cybernetic enhancements.

King I doubt will have something outside of insane durability and strength as he is being saved for Zoro(my personal opinion)

I think they could just be insanely close in overall combat ability.

I was thinking more as fighters, even taking into account the cyborg upgrades I think King should be superior thematically (since he's named as a more powerful figure card in a crew that values strength over anything). If we counted them, say, as generals in a warfare setting, then no doubt Queen will get much more kills than King could and he probably would kill King as well.

However, to be fair, if we take into account Queen's biological weapons he may be able to defeat even the Yonkous in the right setting unless we're now told that Haki can cleanse the body of illnesses.

Except Luffy, who developed high resistances to that kind of stuff on the Impel Down arc.

 

[M3J]

Has any character other than Enel (possibly) shown Future Sight? I feel Katakuri has the potential to become an Emperor if he can go toe-to-toe with an Emperor, if he can damage them somehow, since his Future Sight is very dangerous. I'm actually interested in seeing where he goes from here, unless other Emperors have Future Sight like Whitebeard did if One Piece Wiki is correct.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Has any character other than Enel (possibly) shown Future Sight? I feel Katakuri has the potential to become an Emperor if he can go toe-to-toe with an Emperor, if he can damage them somehow, since his Future Sight is very dangerous. I'm actually interested in seeing where he goes from here, unless other Emperors have Future Sight like Whitebeard did if One Piece Wiki is correct.

He doesn’t have the tank , speed or strength in comparison to any emperor. They are a world apart from him
I dunno katakuri is wholly overrated to me
WC luffy could at least somewhat hang with him and a stronger wano luffy got lol stomped by kaido
He’s not anywhere close to an emperor in strength in except maybe how good his observation haki is

 

[M3J]

Yeah, I'm saying IF he had/has the ability to hurt an emperor, otherwise it's basically his Future Sight that gives him an advantage, and why I don't like people using equation since Katakuri could be inferior and still win just by peeking into the future and countering. However, it'd be useless if he can't deal any damage.

 

[Nie Li]

Yeah, I'm saying IF he had/has the ability to hurt an emperor, otherwise it's basically his Future Sight that gives him an advantage, and why I don't like people using equation since Katakuri could be inferior and still win just by peeking into the future and countering. However, it'd be useless if he can't deal any damage.

I'll say Katakuri can't injure the likes of Kaido. He had great piercing power but he didn't show anything above what the standard supernova and G4 Luffy himself can do.

He could probably injure Whitebeard and Shanks, but those two probably had good CoO as well.

On regards of other characters possibly having future sight I think the Aokiji and Akainu may have it since they used the same kind of tricks as Katakuri to dodge haki-imbued attacks casually even from the likes of Marco and Vista, who are seasoned fighters and haki users.

 

[AmitDS]

I think they could just be insanely close in overall combat ability.

It's pretty much what portrayal is screaming at us. People, mostly guys on here, can't fathom characters being close to or equal in power or people with 'strongest' titles getting rivals or equals without. They also don't pay attention to portrayal, art style, symbolism etc. in a series for children. Character A must always be significantly superior to character B.

Spoiler

People conveniently ignore this while they latch on to King and Queen in card games or even Katakuri being stronger than the other commanders in his group. Unlike Katakuri King was never stated to be the strongest and Queen doesn't admit inferiority or back down.


Even if King was stronger it would be MARGINALLY and, as such, NEGLIGIBLE. Just another Kaku and Jabra situation where Jabra was 20 pts weaker and was beaten by Sanji with less difficulty than Kaku was by Zoro. So really, King being stronger makes no actual difference in anything. It's just another requirement for people due to their biases. If King is stronger even if it isn't enough to put him above Queen or on another tier, they'd take it for bragging rights and to shit on characters like Sanji and Jinbei for fighting 'weaker' people.

On the topic of Jinbei, he seems to have gotten his own King/Queen leveled opponent now since this guy is a rival to Lucci pre time skip and is now giving Jinbei trouble post time skip and was someone who targeted Queen and thought he could beat Queen. Luffy may really get that trio commander leveled or close to it at the end of this arc to pave the way for his emperor and then PK status.

 

[M3J]

I'll say Katakuri can't injure the likes of Kaido. He had great piercing power but he didn't show anything above what the standard supernova and G4 Luffy himself can do.

He could probably injure Whitebeard and Shanks, but those two probably had good CoO as well.

On regards of other characters possibly having future sight I think the Aokiji and Akainu may have it since they used the same kind of tricks as Katakuri to dodge haki-imbued attacks casually even from the likes of Marco and Vista, who are seasoned fighters and haki users.

I don't think he could get past Whitebeard's defense too, or at least younger Whitebeard. His CoO also seemed to be Future Sight, based on how he could tell when he was being attacked and when someone (Luffy) would protect him. Wonder if it was basic CoO during the war or if Oda did think of Future Sight at that time.

 

[HereNThere]

I think Katakuri could injure Kaido. Even ignoring the possibility that Katakuri has ACoC, I feel that his haki should have been developed enough for his Trident to do some damage.

I doubt he'd push Kaido to any major level of difficulty, but I think he'd last a little longer than Luffy did due to his fruit and experience.

And I think if he'd been a part of the RT5, they're performance would've been improved by a decent amount.

 

[M3J]

He'd definitely last longer unless Kaidou's too fast, given Katakuri's near-mastery over Future SIght.

 

[Ramen]

He'd definitely last longer unless Kaidou's too fast, given Katakuri's near-mastery over Future SIght.

Luffy has FS and Kaido still blitzed. Mind you, this is a much stronger, much faster, and overall a better version of Luffy than the one who fought Katakuri.

Spoiler

 

[M3J]

THat doesn't mean he's better than Katakuri at Future Sight though.

 

[Ramen]

THat doesn't mean he's better than Katakuri at Future Sight though.

No it means that Katakuri's FS is useless when the stat gap between him and Kaido is massive.