One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It's a strength feat. The argument you made could be made about any other attack done to Kaido so far on the rooftop.

And it had been made, multiple times. It's not as impressive as halting a combined Yonko attack for a few seconds in my opinion.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

This honestly comes down solely to how you read certain characters.

I've already posted a couple of times that I think Katakuri has ACoC despite it not being explicitly stated. So, personally, I think he'd do much better than any of the Supernova during that round. That said, I don't know how he'd do compared to Yamato. Has to be somewhere between Luffy's first-round performance and Yamato's performance.

And then you have Marco who, despite being choked out by Big Mom, had also received some praise a scene or two later from her as she noted it would be troublesome to deal with him without the rest of her homies. But...that's about it in terms of direct competition with a Yonkou. And, of course, the absence of ACoC on his part is a minus.

King hasn't done much of anything but stand around menacingly, so there's no telling, but I'm going to hazard a guess that he doesn't have ACoC. That said, his Lunerian lineage might end up being a suitable replacement for ACoC, but that's just crack theory territory on my part.

So do I believe Yamato is above YC1? In terms of actual performance, yeah, no doubt. But in the greater context? I'm not actually sure. Everyone just under the Yonkou level is probably in a weird muddled position. Even then, I largely believe that once you reach that level, you can do something against one. Definitely not win, but not be completely outmatched.



I will be exceedingly disappointed if Kaido doesn't have an awakening. I want King and Queen to have it as well, but I can tolerate it if they don't.

There is nothing literally nothing that implies that katakuri has advanced conquerors haki
All he can do was having a more refined and harder COA than luffy
His haki was never had the leaking lightning tinge that comes with coating with COA , neither was he even shown using ryou
I think kata has become a tad overrated based on 2 things , future sight isn’t the end all be all , literally a weaker pre act 1 wano luffy is around his level and a stronger act 1 luffy got one shot by kaido
Yamato durability >
DF mastery kata is higher but I’d say that Yamato got great control and her fruit is just better
Raw speed and strength does point to Yamato
If I was ranking them
I’d say Yamato >= Marco >> katakuri

luffy’s act 1 wano performance against kaido doesn’t do kata Favours ( I do think making luffy get one shot was Probably a mistake in regards to scaling and Oda should have made it a brutal 3-5 combo barrage really )

 

[Nie Li]

And it had been made, multiple times. It's not as impressive as halting a combined Yonko attack for a few seconds in my opinion.

Well, I don't exactly remember you bringing down Luffy's performance because he didn't do anything to Kaido, but okay.

We will just agree to disagree on what feat is more impressive.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well, I don't exactly remember you bringing down Luffy's performance because he didn't do anything to Kaido, but okay.

We will just agree to disagree on what feat is more impressive.

Kaido himself acknowledge Luffy multiple times.

Zoro also never did this to Kaido:

Let's not pretend like we can compare Luffy and Zoro's ability to hurt Kaido.

I agree we just gotta disagree on which feat is more impressive tho I am surprised you disagree with me. I was sure at least you would be on my side on this one. Oh well

 

[M3J]

Honestly, Zoro surviving the attack doesn't feel like a feat to me at all, it feels more like a given amongst the Monster Trio. It'd be disappointing if any of them got killed even by a combo attack from two emperors. It'd be more impressive for someone like Nami to withstand that.

 

[Nie Li]

Kaido himself acknowledge Luffy multiple times.

Zoro also never did this to Kaido:

Let's not pretend like we can compare Luffy and Zoro's ability to hurt Kaido.

Neither did Luffy cut Kaido's chest open.

I wasn't comparing them anyway, I was just using your own argument:

The scarring was absolutely pointless if it didn't even do anything to Kaido.

It's a strength feat. The argument you made could be made about any other attack done to Kaido so far on the rooftop.

"Luffy hitting Kaido was absolutely pointless if it didn't even do anything to Kaido."

That is what I meant, and it's not my opinion, I'm just using the same argument to show you why I don't acknowledge the argument. If we're bringing Zoro's feat down because Kaido only staggered from it and nothing else, then what did Luffy do to Kaido? Guy's doing perfectly fine after having taken Luffy's G4 internal barrage and some advanced CoC hits. Does that mean Luffy did nothing to him? No, that's just how much of a monster Kaido is.

Zoro's feat is historical (in-universe): he's become the second person ever to properly scar Kaido and he already had a foot on the grave when he pulled that attack. That's a fine feat. Luffy has his own feats against Kaido, and they're fine too.

I agree we just gotta disagree on which feat is more impressive tho I am surprised you disagree with me. I was sure at least you would be on my side on this one. Oh well

Of course not. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the blocking feat isn't impressive. I probably think it's more impressive than you do going by how minimal you think it is: I just think the other feat is more impressive.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Honestly, Zoro surviving the attack doesn't feel like a feat to me at all, it feels more like a given amongst the Monster Trio. It'd be disappointing if any of them got killed even by a combo attack from two emperors. It'd be more impressive for someone like Nami to withstand that.

Nah that feels like a downplay
Minus a gura gura attack that maybe is the strongest attack in the series so far
I can see luffy and Yamato doing similar but not sanji

 

[Pirate Queen]

Nah that feels like a downplay
Minus a gura gura attack that maybe is the strongest attack in the series so far
I can see luffy and Yamato doing similar but not sanji

Sanji has thr raid suit now which boasts great defense. He might be able to

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yamato might be stronger than base coc luffy but g4 snakeman luffy? Nah bro

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2021 ---

Idk what ur getting at? I’m saying he took damage from 2 yonkos. Law just teleport him

Zoro scar on kaido is on the lvl of oden. (I’m not saying zoro=oden)

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2021 ---

Yamato will be a strong crew mate for luffy(if she joins) but In the end she will behind zoro and sanji

Luffy had G4 when he got steamrolled by Kaido. Yamato is probably stronger than that version of Luffy period.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Neither did Luffy cut Kaido's chest open.

I wasn't comparing them anyway, I was just using your own argument:


"Luffy hitting Kaido was absolutely pointless if it didn't even do anything to Kaido."

That is what I meant, and it's not my opinion, I'm just using the same argument to show you why I don't acknowledge the argument. If we're bringing Zoro's feat down because Kaido only staggered from it and nothing else, then what did Luffy do to Kaido? Guy's doing perfectly fine after having taken Luffy's G4 internal barrage and some advanced CoC hits. Does that mean Luffy did nothing to him? No, that's just how much of a monster Kaido is.

Zoro's feat is historical (in-universe): he's become the second person ever to properly scar Kaido and he already had a foot on the grave when he pulled that attack. That's a fine feat. Luffy has his own feats against Kaido, and they're fine too.


Of course not. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the blocking feat isn't impressive. I probably think it's more impressive than you do going by how minimal you think it is: I just think the other feat is more impressive.

You don't understand. The scarring itself is pointless. The damage Kaido sustained is all accumulative, that's not even a question. Zoro damaged Kaido.

We are conversing about what's more impressive.

Scarring Kaido

Or

Blocking 2 Yonko for a few seconds

If the scarring of Kaido ACTUALLY did something, I would consider it more impressive. Everyone was damaging Kaido. Amounts differed, but they were all damaging him. Zoro just happened to have done a bit more damage with the finisher.

What was far more unique was blocking a combined attack from 2 Yonko, which no one else was able to do.

I think this is the last I'll talk on it tho because your right, I don't think it's much of a feat in comparison to other things happening right now.

 

[HereNThere]

There is nothing literally nothing that implies that katakuri has advanced conquerors haki
All he can do was having a more refined and harder COA than luffy
His haki was never had the leaking lightning tinge that comes with coating with COA , neither was he even shown using ryou

Argument could be made. The parallels are there.

Spoiler: Chapter 883

Spoiler: Chapter 1009

Highly doubtful that Katakuri would win, but he certainly wouldn't be a slouch.

As I said in the post above, the parallels are there. Oda even has Katakuri state that there are levels to Armament. And ever since that battle, everything Luffy's learned about haki was stuff leading him to realize that everything Hyogoro was teaching him was all leading to ACoC, which is the only thing that's actually a level above Armament.

That was the assumption we all had at the time, but that reaction Oda had Katakuri bring up seems exceedingly purposeful. I mean, think about it. Oda has already been establishing that Armament can be overpowered by other Armaments if it's strong enough, ever since Dressrosa. We saw plenty examples of it. However, with Katakuri, he restates it as he shows Luffy's defense, failing spectacularly and his hands swelling up and it clearly being more painful than usual. Then, fast forward to Kaido, the same thing happens, prior to the chapter Luffy reached his realization that internal destruction was related to CoC.

I imagine that's because Oda was saving the reveal for Wano for both cases. He focused mainly on FS for Katakuri.

I think kata has become a tad overrated based on 2 things , future sight isn’t the end all be all , literally a weaker pre act 1 wano luffy is around his level and a stronger act 1 luffy got one shot by kaido

I think he's becoming more and more underrated as time goes on, honestly. FS isn't the end all be all, that I do agree on, but Luffy's victory over Katakuri was incredibly circumstantial even in the end game. Katakuri gave himself a significant handicap before the two really started going at it. Which gave Luffy enough of a chance to actually power through to the end.

Luffy got stronger, but considering the context of his victory, I highly, highly doubt Act 1 Wano Luffy was instantly stronger than Katakuri at the time.

I'm a general proponent of the idea that in One Piece, victories and power levels aren't permanently binary after a certain point.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Argument could be made. The parallels are there.

Spoiler: Chapter 883

Spoiler: Chapter 1009

Highly doubtful that Katakuri would win, but he certainly wouldn't be a slouch.

As I said in the post above, the parallels are there. Oda even has Katakuri state that there are levels to Armament. And ever since that battle, everything Luffy's learned about haki was stuff leading him to realize that everything Hyogoro was teaching him was all leading to ACoC, which is the only thing that's actually a level above Armament.

That was the assumption we all had at the time, but that reaction Oda had Katakuri bring up seems exceedingly purposeful. I mean, think about it. Oda has already been establishing that Armament can be overpowered by other Armaments if it's strong enough, ever since Dressrosa. We saw plenty examples of it. However, with Katakuri, he restates it as he shows Luffy's defense, failing spectacularly and his hands swelling up and it clearly being more painful than usual. Then, fast forward to Kaido, the same thing happens, prior to the chapter Luffy reached his realization that internal destruction was related to CoC.

I imagine that's because Oda was saving the reveal for Wano for both cases. He focused mainly on FS for Katakuri.



I think he's becoming more and more underrated as time goes on, honestly. FS isn't the end all be all, that I do agree on, but Luffy's victory over Katakuri was incredibly circumstantial even in the end game. Katakuri gave himself a significant handicap before the two really started going at it. Which gave Luffy enough of a chance to actually power through to the end.

Luffy got stronger, but considering the context of his victory, I highly, highly doubt Act 1 Wano Luffy was instantly stronger than Katakuri at the time.

I'm a general proponent of the idea that in One Piece, victories and power levels aren't permanently binary after a certain point.

Nah katakuri’s haki was just tougher and harder
If it’s by that you could imply cracker had it too since luffy said till then his haki was by far the toughest he had ever encountered
KatKuri haki was just tougher and harder he had no leaking black lightning , Oda would have drawn it out
Armament COC has been reserved so far for emperors , roger and Yamato and luffy so far
Katakuri doesn’t have it
The parralels only was luffy needed to improve his haki hardness is all
If kata had COC armament luffy would have lost , it’s a more effective and considerably more damaging technique
Kata -> advanced coo
Kaido -> advanced COC

 

[HereNThere]

Nah katakuri’s haki was just tougher and harder
If it’s by that you could imply cracker had it too since luffy said till then his haki was by far the toughest he had ever encountered

Cracker's haki was the toughest at that point in time, but it was not portrayed as it was with Kaido and Kata. These were the only two moments in the series where that was shown, so I feel that was on purpose on Oda's part.

KatKuri haki was just tougher and harder he had no leaking black lightning , Oda would have drawn it out
Armament COC has been reserved so far for emperors , roger and Yamato and luffy so far
Katakuri doesn’t have it

Oda didn't start making it apparent until after 1010 though. Big Mom clashes with Luffy a few times, yet it was never hinted that she had it until after 1010. Oden scarring on Kaido clearly implies he used it, but he wasn't leaking lightning either.

It wasn't established before, but now it is, so it can actually be shown properly.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I feel like Oda purposefully used the same stinging affect on Luffy to show that the techniques were similar.

The parralels only was luffy needed to improve his haki hardness is all
If kata had COC armament luffy would have lost , it’s a more effective and considerably more damaging technique

That doesn't track for me because, otherwise, Oda wouldn't have had Luffy jump straight to learning how to flow his haki and learn ACoC if that was the case. He's mastered armament hardening. Flowing and ACoC is the next step going by how Oda set it up.

I mean, the series has to progress somehow. Big Mom and Kaido should have been killed the Supernova with their ACoC, but Oda held them back to keep the story going. Kidd's brains should literally be scrambled eggs as Big Mom rocked him straight in the face, but it isn't because of plot. Instead, she throat checked PO with ACoC, despite him not even being remotely a threat to her because he's not plot protected.

 

[XXGenesis]

IMO the 2 feats are heavily interconnected; as they happen shortly after each other and plays up the latter feat to me more in depth impressive(opinionated)

Personally the Block was more hype! For Me!
It was a very clutch play that saved the SN.

The results of the clutchness was also epic.
BM was removed from the roof & Zoro helped while in pain.

Then we get the CoC Ashura feat, Kaido takes damage & shows he is hurt in pain but it doesn’t slow Kaido down, or impede him later on.

So IMO it’s the block now the Ashura attack

 

[LaGOAT]

Luffy had G4 when he got steamrolled by Kaido. Yamato is probably stronger than that version of Luffy period.

Thats before he had advance CoC I’m talking about current G4 luffy with CoC

 

[M3J]

Nah that feels like a downplay
Minus a gura gura attack that maybe is the strongest attack in the series so far
I can see luffy and Yamato doing similar but not sanji

Downplay or not, I haven't seen any reason as to why it's not a given that the Monster Trio or Yamato wouldn't survive the attacks. The three have survived tons of powerful attacks, even when they were damaged and exhausted.

 

[Ellenate]

That moment just gets worse the more I replay it in my head.

If zoro standing still is enough to stall it, them all counter attacking should've been enough to stop it completely- be a callback to the admirals blocking whitebeard.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Lobo and I teaming up to convince people Zoro stopping an attack from 2 Yonko for a few seconds is a feat:

 

[LaGOAT]

Oden did it in his weakest form while zoro did it in his strongest form that why I see both scars as a similar feat. Plus big mom warn kaido in his dragon form to dodge zoro Emma attack which says something IMO. Now I don’t think zoro is stronger than oden yet but I do think that damage output is similar.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 16, 2021 ---

@Lobo and I teaming up to convince people Zoro stopping an attack from 2 Yonko for a few seconds is a feat:

Like how can it now be lol it doesn’t matter it was for a second like the guy held arguably the strongest attack shown on one piece just to save the rest of the SN

 

[Ricko]

Oden did it in his weakest form while zoro did it in his strongest form that why I see both scars as a similar feat. Plus big mom warn kaido in his dragon form to dodge zoro Emma attack which says something IMO. Now I don’t think zoro is stronger than oden yet but I do think that damage output is similar.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 16, 2021 ---

Like how can it now be lol it doesn’t matter it was for a second like the guy held arguably the strongest attack shown on one piece just to save the rest of the SN

It's difficult to judge, Kaido was also weaker than he's now ! He was not yet a Yonko at that time.
Oden even ask Kaido to become stronger !

Would Oden, who was at his prime at that time could do the same feat to Kaido at his prime ? We will never have reply.