One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

i really hate the logic of "if not for this person having this power that makes them strong then they would be weak" especially when you can't exactly take the power away from them.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy was fighting Katakuri in base a good chunk of the fight thanks to G4 time limit. If Katakuri didn't have FS, Luffy would have won outright.

FS was the deciding factor in that fight.

Luffy certainly had the Attack Power, Speed, and Endurance of a YC1 coming out of the timeskip.

Rebuttal: Luffy Ran away with Brûlée a good chunk of the fight, G4 can’t be used twice if it’s not a game finisher because of the no Haki time limit, will definitely be taken advantage of….

FS Was not the deciding factor. FS made Katakuri seem invincible & untouchable. Can’t defeat someone you can’t hit. Katakuri still was stronger, faster & more mastery of DF & CoA Haki.

No Luffy did not. That’s why he couldn’t defeat Doflamingo or Cracker without help, he wasn’t that strong. Katakuri wouldn’t have been in such a high level above him if he was on that level.

Luffy with ACoO was able to have an almost even fight in Base with Katakuri, able to dodge & counter. Katakuri was still so much better overall. As to why he was whipping G4 ass, both Boundman & Snakeman….You yourself has stated Katakuri let Luffy win…Or did you forgot?

Better? Sure... but not to the degree in which a certain person is claiming.

Katakuri definitely had better CoA, Luffy was doing enough to give him an extreme diff fight.

Katakuri only did as good as he did because of FS. Without it Luffy would have won cleanly. Even with better stats than Luffy he couldn't keep him down. Luffy just kept coming for him

Intangible battle attributes can’t be held against the character, when it’s designed into the plot. Luffy’s Will was Iron clad, to get back up on his feet and fight and opponents that was kicking his ass all over Mirror World. Katakuri with FS & better stats was frustrated that he couldn’t land a critical hit on Luffy, he dodged his spear, & endured a beating, so he rushed with the Mochi suffocation…..Luffy is able to land a hit and go G4 for the follow up, Katakuri easily calms down & beats up Boundman….Most of the fight is now base Luffy taking a beating, evading a few attacks barely fighting back..We get Flampe scene then, Luffy puts up his best fight, to still not defeat Katakuri, Katakuri was just impressed Luffy could go toe to toe with him and even level up during the fight. So he just falls on his back….

G4 out the time skip ain’t YC1; If it can’t secure a win against Doffy w/o help. Or Cracker. Both these non YC1 made it pass G4 time limit & would have merged Luffy if not for PLOT. Snakeman still had nothing on FS, & Boundman’s CoA wasn’t stronger than Block Mochi.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Didn't the initial exchange between Kata and Luffy show that Katakuri was better at everything? Overpowered Luffy's kicks, gattling gun, elephant gun using the same attacks. CoA hurt Luffy's hands. Isn't that why the community even joked about Katakuri to be the replacement of Luffy?

As for why Luffy got up after being a punching bag for 11 hours? Plot armour

And what's with the "if Katakuri didn't have FS" discussion?

 

[Fox666]

Katakuri was overpowered by Gear 4 however.

 

[Idkwhatanameis]

Gear 4 luffy didn’t fodderzie cracked
Even after he learnt the secret to softening up and eating , he spent the entire night running and recovering to fight cracker
Plus cracker swordsmanship and haki were elite as confirmed by luffy , doffy couldn’t harm luffy in g4 and cracker sliced him with near ease
Cracker weakness is his durability is cheeks

I said their tricks prevented him from one shotting had it been a brawl he loses taking g4 head on either way you put it

 

[Pirate Queen]

Katakuri was overpowered by Gear 4 however.

There was a reason Katakuri blocked Luffy from going G4 multiple times

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2021 ---

And what's with the "if Katakuri didn't have FS" discussion?

The point was that each YC1 has something that allows them to stay in a fight long enough to be overwhelming, where as Luffy was missing that. Hence Luffy would have never been able to beat one without a special twist. His just happens to be all 3 forms of Advanced Haki and overwhelming willpower

Marco has Regen
King has indestructible wings(apparently)
Katakuri had Future Sight

Each of those abilities allows them to be overwhelming powerhouses against opposition that doesn't have something similar and prolong fights until said opposition has nothing left in the tank. Unfortunately Luffy can run on E indefinitely (what some would call Plot Armor)

 

[AmitDS]

Aww, a reply to my post was deleted xD

Anyway, we Katakuri downplaying now?

No, he's not YC1 just because of his FS.

Spoiler

Is this a new way to trivialize Luffy's feats in WCI? lol I see you

I think we're forgetting that his CoA was actually pretty tough just because we got introduced to AdCoA, etc. in Wano; he dominated Luffy until he started using G4 and even then it took FS/Snakeman to overcome him. The argument that he's not durable is also a false narrative spread. No-one's saying he has Ancient Zoan/Kaido levels of durability, but have we seen any other characters take as much hits from G4 and still fight to a draw? Endurance is another point that should be mentioned here. He did fight with Luffy for ~11 hours so I really don't see how any part of his "kit" is lacking. He also conveniently has CoC too. While he hasn't shown advanced CoC or even advanced CoA (let's be real, it hadn't been invented yet lol), it's not a stretch to assume if we see him again he'll have them (especially if BM goes down and he in fact becomes the BMP's new leader).

Basically:
His Observation Haki is broken
His CoA was broken at the time
His Durability was impressive
His DF Mastery is phenomenal

Spoiler

It should also be noted that his armament had the flame pattern that only G4 Luffy and BM has been seen using (we don't know what that means exactly tho lol).

On a related note, I'm interested to see what's Benn Beckman's and Shiryu's abilities as the YC1s. We've seen that the YC1s we know all have a broken ability that let's them stay in fights (FS, Regen, Durability/Lunarian I guess?). Or is it just sword? xD

 

[Pirate Queen]

Aww, a reply to my post was deleted xD

Anyway, we Katakuri downplaying now?

No, he's not YC1 just because of his FS. I think we're forgetting that his CoA was actually pretty tough just because we got introduced to AdCoA, etc. in Wano; he dominated Luffy until he started using G4 and even then it took FS/Snakeman to overcome him. The argument that he's not durable is also a false narrative spread. No-one's saying he has Ancient Zoan/Kaido levels of durability, but have we seen any other characters take as much hits from G4 and still fight to a draw? Endurance is another point that should be mentioned here. He did fight with Luffy for ~11 hours so I really don't see how any part of his "kit" is lacking. He also conveniently has CoC too. While he hasn't shown advanced CoC or even advanced CoA (let's be real, it hadn't been invented yet lol), it's not a stretch to assume if we see him again he'll have them (especially if BM goes down and he in fact becomes the BMP's new leader).

Basically:
His Observation Haki is broken
His CoA was broken at the time
His Durability was impressive
His DF Mastery is phenomenal

Spoiler

It should also be noted that his armament had the flame pattern that only G4 Luffy and BM has been seen using (we don't know what that means exactly tho lol).

I didn't mean to downplay Katakuri at all. But I can see how what I wrote could be misconstrued into thinking that. My bad

 

[kkck]

Realistically speaking katakuri is the only YC1 so far that has evidenced the highest level of mastery of any type of haki. Marco is obviously insanely strong but he hasn't evidenced foresight or internal damage haki (or projection). King has not evidenced them either. Maybe there is a case to be made for projection but to an extent that is relatively common. Beckham presumably has at least projection given his apparent ability to imbue haki into bullets but otherwise we have no information. We don't know who is BB's YC1 so... Hard to say how katakuri and king compare though. King is handling zoro's slashes like its nothing... Sounds like you'd need to hit king with at least a G4 level attack or internal damage haki to get anything done.

 

[AmitDS]

I didn't mean to downplay Katakuri at all. But I can see how what I wrote could be misconstrued into thinking that. My bad

lol I didn't mean you, I was typing this up while you posted xD A post that got deleted (I think) had said that he's YC3 level

 

[Pirate Queen]

Realistically speaking katakuri is the only YC1 so far that has evidenced the highest level of mastery of any type of haki. Marco is obviously insanely strong but he hasn't evidenced foresight or internal damage haki (or projection). King has not evidenced them either. Maybe there is a case to be made for projection but to an extent that is relatively common. Beckham presumably has at least projection given his apparent ability to imbue haki into bullets but otherwise we have no information. We don't know who is BB's YC1 so... Hard to say how katakuri and king compare though. King is handling zoro's slashes like its nothing... Sounds like you'd need to hit king with at least a G4 level attack or internal damage haki to get anything done.

Someone that can handle Zoro's slashes like nothing, without haki, probably doesn't think he ever needs to guard with haki.

Imagine Kaido using full body haki on top of his Dragon scales

 

[grey matter]

We don't know who is BB's YC1

Burgess commands the first ship of the BB pirates.

But if we're going by status, Shiryu is BB pirate's second in command. By this, I mean he's the BB pirate's equivalent of King, Katakuri, Marco, Zoro etc
It was hinted at earlier in the series, and confirmed with the recent color page

Spoiler

 

[I Am Atomic]

Katakuri was overpowered by Gear 4 however.

I still thought Katakuri was better than Luffy G4. Yes he received the most damage while he raged when his true nature was found out. But after he was calm, he punched Luffy so hard he actually took damage from it. Afterwards, Katakuri dominated again.

Even Snakeman, reread the chapter and count the exchanges (check the colour on Katakuri's cheek: it's covered in CoA everytime he got punched, even the first Snakeman punch he got to his face was covered in CoA). Katakuri dominated Luffy even in that form. Katakuri even landed his finishing blow twice on Luffy, while Luffy only landed King Cobra once.

But Kata can only do that because of future sight. So I am not discussing Luffy vs FS-less Kata

 

[albertwv]

@Pirate Queen I think you're looking at it wrong. Katakuri overwhelmed Luffy even in G4, even with Snakeman even with FS. Luffy was not on Kata's level, not until Wano.

Take away Kata his FS, he still has his DF awakening, extremely hard CoA, better than Luffy's and speed.
G4 Luffy only temporarily knocked down Kata because he wasnt calm, but even without the FS, once Kata calmed down and he used Donut Mochi attack, he took G4 Luffys breath away with one punch.
The whole fight Kata was dominating Luffy in every aspect.

Kata let Luffy win the fight. The amount of damage Kata laid on Luffy compared to Luffy on Kata, shows us how strong Kata is.

Luffy was not YC1 until Udon training.
I usually agree with you on discussions, but not this time. You are fighting so hard for Luffy to be YC1 before Wano and seem to be downplaying Kata. Idk why.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Pirate Queen I think you're looking at it wrong. Katakuri overwhelmed Luffy even in G4, even with Snakeman even with FS. Luffy was not on Kata's level, not until Wano.

Take away Kata his FS, he still has his DF awakening, extremely hard CoA, better than Luffy's and speed.
G4 Luffy only temporarily knocked down Kata because he wasnt calm, but even without the FS, once Kata calmed down and he used Donut Mochi attack, he took G4 Luffys breath away with one punch.
The whole fight Kata was dominating Luffy in every aspect.

Kata let Luffy win the fight. The amount of damage Kata laid on Luffy compared to Luffy on Kata, shows us how strong Kata is.

Luffy was not YC1 until Udon training.
I usually agree with you on discussions, but not this time. You are fighting so hard for Luffy to be YC1 before Wano and seem to be downplaying Kata. Idk why.

I'm not downplaying Katakuri at all. Again, I am address how YC1's each have a special ability that kept them apart from other YC's and Luffy was missing that. An ability to keep them in a fight longer than run of the mill fighters.

Marco has regen
King got his wings
Katakuri has FS

To address that Luffy was barely a YC1 at Udon just isn't right.

Despite Katakuri winning, if you placed Luffy with the skills he developed throughout the fight, at 100% and Katakuri at 100% Luffy would have won outright. Their fight was very, very, close despite there being a clear winner.

If you disagree overall we are just going to have to agree to disagree. All good

 

[AmitDS]

King got his wings

So um... what if the theory that Sanji has some form of Lunarian DNA in him turns out to be true? Does he get awarded all the hype that King's been getting recently?

 

[Pirate Queen]

So um... what if the theory that Sanji has some form of Lunarian DNA in him turns out to be true? Does he get awarded all the hype that King's been getting recently?

Imagine the outrage

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2021 ---

Sanji with black wings



"Black Wing Sanji"

 

[Idkwhatanameis]

Katakuri may have been more versatile with future sight during the fight but by the time it was done luffy was clearly stronger. Luffy with any future sight beats katakuri which he had by the end of the fight.

 

[baditz]

I'm not downplaying Katakuri at all. Again, I am address how YC1's each have a special ability that kept them apart from other YC's and Luffy was missing that. An ability to keep them in a fight longer than run of the mill fighters.

Marco has regen
King got his wings
Katakuri has FS

To address that Luffy was barely a YC1 at Udon just isn't right.

Despite Katakuri winning, if you placed Luffy with the skills he developed throughout the fight, at 100% and Katakuri at 100% Luffy would have won outright. Their fight was very, very, close despite there being a clear winner.

If you disagree overall we are just going to have to agree to disagree. All good

Well, for king i say his fire n tough skin?
But all YC 1 sure can adabt the fight,,
Katakuri can fight with his spear n w/o it,,
Sama as king he have sword but he not depend on,,
Beckmen sewmnuse gun, but he also use that gun for slam people,,
Morco he is a doctor n a brawler,,

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well, for king i say his fire n tough skin?
But all YC 1 sure can adabt the fight,,
Katakuri can fight with his spear n w/o it,,
Sama as king he have sword but he not depend on,,
Beckmen sewmnuse gun, but he also use that gun for slam people,,
Morco he is a doctor n a brawler,,

True, I was focusing more on the abilities that specifically allow then to fight for longer periods of time and essentially tire out their opponents