One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Are you including lack of the quake fruit in this.

It was Kizaru in chapter 802, and he doesn't specify. But he does unequivocally say that Weevil is as powerful as Whitebeard was "in his youth".

I feel like Weevil is like Big Mom in this way. They both have these caricature designs and are talked about in this vague histrionics by other characters- who are credible- but every time they're shown it's an L or they have to be redirected or restrained somehow. Regardless, they *are* that powerful.

I call it Ace Syndrome in powerscaling. You have to equate them to certain pirates, but they also have to be scaled in absurd ways to accommodate that.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It was Kizaru in chapter 802, and he doesn't specify. But he does unequivocally say that Weevil is as powerful as Whitebeard was "in his youth".

I feel like Weevil is like Big Mom in this way. They both have these caricature designs and are talked about in this vague histrionics by other characters- who are credible- but every time they're shown it's an L or they have to be redirected or restrained somehow. Regardless, they *are* that powerful.

I call it Ace Syndrome in powerscaling. You have to equate them to certain pirates, but they also have to be scaled in absurd ways to accommodate that.

I took it to mean physical strength personally but maybe he has a df copy like the Seraphim

 

[Core D. Roy]

I took it to mean physical strength personally but maybe he has a df copy like the Seraphim

I'm not really in the weeds of "how", we obviously don't know dick about Weevil's abilities. But presumably Kizaru DOES know everything he can do, and thus judges him to be as strong as a young Whitebeard. That said, Borsalino was 20 at the time of God Valley, and Newgate was already in his mid-30's so who knows what point of reference Borsalino was using.

I think the reader is just meant to take an admiral's opinions about a pirate's power level at face value and I see no reason not to that's not nitpicking

 

[XXGenesis]

I'm not really in the weeds of "how", we obviously don't know dick about Weevil's abilities. But presumably Kizaru DOES know everything he can do, and thus judges him to be as strong as a young Whitebeard. That said, Borsalino was 20 at the time of God Valley, and Newgate was already in his mid-30's so who knows what point of reference Borsalino was using.

I think the reader is just meant to take an admiral's opinions about a pirate's power level at face value and I see no reason not to that's not nitpicking

How strong was a Young White beard? Are we talking about God Valley WB…not really young imo kinda a grown man already, No? Like before his recruitment into the Rocks Pirate .

I say we seen him lose against Admirals, which isn’t horrible but I doubt he’s anywhere above YC1…

More interesting to me. Question for everyone?
Rayleigh, Gaban, & presumably Sengoku. Haven’t at least the 1st 2 shown enough to be more than a challenge for Law, Yamato, Zoro…??

 

[Core D. Roy]

ALRIGHT I've moved Whitebeard (Young) and Weevil down past the bottom of S-tier into the top gatekeeping row of A-tier. Which funny enough is where Marco is. Mostly because I can't imagine Young Whitebeard is somehow stronger than Young Linlin, and also I decided no kids should be in S-tier, just doesn't feel right.

I was wrong

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Pirate Queen
But damn! Why you do the old men like that! Tsk tsk, you ain’t right for that lol.

Only because I question their stamina, and Old Gen themselves have said as much so im taken them at face value. That being said, I assume they perform as equally well as old Garp. They just cant sustain the strength very long.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I choose to imagine that Kidd had an awesome adventure and there was just never time to show it. He's like Luigi in Paper Mario: TTYD. I don't think Oda hated him or anything, but the cast was already just so overstuffed that his constant L's contrasted with his personality comes across as insulting to the poor bastard

Yeah that makes sense. We do know about him taking down a few of BMs ships and taking their treasures, he had his own small base and had formed a pirate alliance. He honestly was just super unlucky that Kaido went for him.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Yeah that makes sense. We do know about him taking down a few of BMs ships and taking their treasures, he had his own small base and had formed a pirate alliance. He honestly was just super unlucky that Kaido went for him.

Not just that, he took out Snack and got far enough into her territory to get a poneglyph rubbing IIRC. Also one thing that gets forgotten about is that his alliance was doomed from the beginning, Apoo was a plant the whole time and presumably led Kaidou to their base.

 

[XXGenesis]

As an Otaku, I’ve always loved the Old men in the series;
One Piece we have quite a few left, and all of them pretty much are badasses. I still quite frankly rate them pretty high, I believe them to still hold favorable positioning over other characters…

For me their benchmark is Rayleigh; Let me explain, Rayleigh was able to stall Kizaru back in Shabody, showing mild signs of fatigue & received recognition from Kizaru of his reputation & prowess…to summarize Rayleigh can’t defeat Kizaru, but Kizaru would not walk away unscathed. Then we have Rayleigh again deterring BB on Amazon Lily, with no fight this time. Again to summarize Rayleigh again was not going to be able to defeat BB, & BB being too cautious backed down from a fight he didn’t have an advantage in or have to fight.

So that being said, I do believe Rayleigh is stronger than Gabban. With Sengoku being weaker than them. & of course Garp is ahead of all of em.

So if I had to compare Rayleigh to Garp to the current Admirals…..I have all of the old men under the admirals besides Greenbull’s stupid self only sitting above Sengoku. Because I can see him losing to someone like Gabban, old man stamina/endurance issues or not.

As for Law, Kidd, Zoro, Yamato…I mean I’m confident they can put up a decent fight..I can’t see how Gabban losses to them. I’ll still even give Sengoku the edge. To Rayleigh’s credit, I’m sure he would have preformed better than Law did against BB.

 

[kkck]

If we go by vibe and context the most likely scenario is that garp and sengoku were equals through their careers. With the caveat that odds are that age has caught up faster to sengoku than garp. It's worth remembering that those old timers are almost 80. Nearly a decade older than WB was and 15-20 years older than kaido-big mom. On top of that it's possible sengoku can still fight above what we saw at marineford, which wasn't a small feat even by modern power scalings, by simply unleashing his awakening (if he has one of course). I don't expect garp to make a full recovery from his time in beehive though he will of course remain a monster if he survives.

 

[Core D. Roy]

If we go by vibe and context the most likely scenario is that garp and sengoku were equals through their careers. With the caveat that odds are that age has caught up faster to sengoku than garp. It's worth remembering that those old timers are almost 80. Nearly a decade older than WB was and 15-20 years older than kaido-big mom. On top of that it's possible sengoku can still fight above what we saw at marineford, which wasn't a small feat even by modern power scalings, by simply unleashing his awakening (if he has one of course). I don't expect garp to make a full recovery from his time in beehive though he will of course remain a monster if he survives.

Top List of Characters Who Make Scaling a Nightmare

• Blackbeard: Shanks looked directly into the camera, pointed to his scar and said "there won't no trickery, he's a real motherfucker"; we now know this was about 15(!) years ago, given the bandages when he returns to Mariejoa; if base Blackbeard had been keeping pace with Shanks of all people all this time, then I cannot NOT put him as high as I have after he gained the Yami and Gura fruits
  
  
• Ace: the gordian knot at the center of every bit of scaling, ever since he was a little kid straight up to the moment of death
• Sengoku: Roger said "bring me Garp or Sengoku", ever since then his placement has just been nebulously floating MUCH higher than it would be otherwise
• Ben Beckman: "Oooooh, Ben Be~~ckman~~!!", the trolling that transcended the page and was clearly aimed directly at powerscalers; Borsalino you bastard
• Weevil: the bastard that inspired this list, already litigated in recent pages

Special mentions:

• Sabo: inherited not just Ace's fruit and will, but also the impossibly blurry powerscaling; from a certain angle, it sure does seem like he could've solo'd Doffy lol
• Coby: The Other Protagonist that we just kinda have to assume follows a similar arc as Luffy; every time he appears he's ridiculously stronger than before

 

[Fox666]

• Sengoku: Roger said "bring me Garp or Sengoku", ever since then his placement has just been nebulously floating MUCH higher than it would be otherwise

Huh, I'm sure Roger would think of a fight against any Admiral-level characters entertaining

 

[Core D. Roy]

Huh, I'm sure Roger would think of a fight against any Admiral-level characters entertaining

It's so difficult to imagine Sengoku anywhere near other admirals. Oda just show the man fighting in his prime!! Please, just one panel lmao

 

[Fox666]

It's so difficult to imagine Sengoku anywhere near other admirals. Oda just show the man fighting in his prime!! Please, just one panel lmao

Sengoku did wreck the Blackbeard Pirates

 

[kkck]

Top List of Characters Who Make Scaling a Nightmare

• Blackbeard: Shanks looked directly into the camera, pointed to his scar and said "there won't no trickery, he's a real motherfucker"; we now know this was about 15(!) years ago, given the bandages when he returns to Mariejoa; if base Blackbeard had been keeping pace with Shanks of all people all this time, then I cannot NOT put him as high as I have after he gained the Yami and Gura fruits
  
  
• Ace: the gordian knot at the center of every bit of scaling, ever since he was a little kid straight up to the moment of death
• Sengoku: Roger said "bring me Garp or Sengoku", ever since then his placement has just been nebulously floating MUCH higher than it would be otherwise
• Ben Beckman: "Oooooh, Ben Be~~ckman~~!!", the trolling that transcended the page and was clearly aimed directly at powerscalers; Borsalino you bastard
• Weevil: the bastard that inspired this list, already litigated in recent pages

Special mentions:

• Sabo: inherited not just Ace's fruit and will, but also the impossibly blurry powerscaling; from a certain angle, it sure does seem like he could've solo'd Doffy lol
• Coby: The Other Protagonist that we just kinda have to assume follows a similar arc as Luffy; every time he appears he's ridiculously stronger than before

Yeah, I can't say the bit with BB makes any sense to me. Specially his rather lackluster performance against sengoku at marineford.

What I have come around to is that WB's executives were simply way ahead of the curve among their equivalents in other yonko crews (except maybe shank's). WB's veteran Vista was able to keep mihawk at bay. Not only that but Mihawk took Vista seriously. Which is absurd. At egghead the manga finally placed/confirmed at least the previous admiral lineup to be on par with yonko... And WB's pirates took that head on and survived (with help).

I am not sure of why you are placing sengoku that low. Setting aside that his only fight is against BB's gang I would argue that on vibes and hypes every indication is that he is garp's peer at a minimum.

If the new admiral lineup holds up to the previous one then odds are that sabo is straight up a yonko level fighter. Before his fruit. Which in hindsight makes Burguess' attempt at his life hilarious.

Hmm, I never took that much issue with koby's growth before the timeskip and even what little we saw in the new world checked out until the events at beehive. Koby being able to take on yonko executives in a crew though is... insane. Its clear that there's a wide range of strength across yonko executives in crews (with the tobiropo arguably being the least impressive of the bunch) but in any scenario they were always pirates with long careers and infamy.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Sengoku did wreck the Blackbeard Pirates

Just imagining Blackbeard hanging out nearby before he decides to pounce, Van Augur giving him updates

"Yeah boss are you sure this Sengoku guy is a big deal? Strawhat just took a direct hit and he's a wimp"

"As always your insight is invaluable- CHARGE!!"

*smash cut to the whole crew bloodied and dragging themselves off the floor*

"Y'know it's weird that it happened twice in one day"

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2026, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2026 ---

Yeah, I can't say the bit with BB makes any sense to me. Specially his rather lackluster performance against sengoku at marineford.

What I have come around to is that WB's executives were simply way ahead of the curve among their equivalents in other yonko crews (except maybe shank's). WB's veteran Vista was able to keep mihawk at bay. Not only that but Mihawk took Vista seriously. Which is absurd. At egghead the manga finally placed/confirmed at least the previous admiral lineup to be on par with yonko... And WB's pirates took that head on and survived (with help).

I am not sure of why you are placing sengoku that low. Setting aside that his only fight is against BB's gang I would argue that on vibes and hypes every indication is that he is garp's peer at a minimum.

If the new admiral lineup holds up to the previous one then odds are that sabo is straight up a yonko level fighter. Before his fruit. Which in hindsight makes Burguess' attempt at his life hilarious.

Hmm, I never took that much issue with koby's growth before the timeskip and even what little we saw in the new world checked out until the events at beehive. Koby being able to take on yonko executives in a crew though is... insane. Its clear that there's a wide range of strength across yonko executives in crews (with the tobiropo arguably being the least impressive of the bunch) but in any scenario they were always pirates with long careers and infamy.

I just take Shanks's warnings far more seriously than basically anything involving the massive grain of salt required for scaling anybody based on their performance against Sengoku. Also the Blackbeard Pirates are just serial jobbers, they had just taken a collective L that same day like a few hours before with Magellan.

Mihawk scaling has always been fine for me, it's the Whitebeard executives in general that make no sense. But I give Oda a LOT of grace with them in hindsight because of how crazy it was to establish so much powerscaling in Marineford. Vista goes squarely between Marco and Ace imo- even somebody objectively far weaker than Mihawk is still one of the world's best swordsmen and worthy of Mihawk having a fun spar with. Look at the top 50 dogs in the world, not a lot of "swordsmen" in there lol it's pretty slim pickings for the "WSS".

Hey I have Sengoku (Prime) at the bottom of S (which makes him at least competitive with other S-tiers), and Sengoku (Old) four rows below (Prime), which is consistent with Garp and Whitebeard's degradation. This makes him in parity with other notoriously annoying-to-scale characters Ace and Weevil, coincidentally. Funny enough, Sengoku has a near identical problem to Shiki: a meteoric difference in the story telling the reader "this guy tussles with Roger" and then the modern reality of not even taking out a pre-timeskip Luffy. Sengoku gets a lot of grace here for Marineford being a messy affair, but boy howdy Shiki's fall from grace is easily the largest in the series, even more of a Prime->Failure example than Croco or Moria.

Spoiler

Coby's exponential growth is only wild if you don't consider him the Shonen Protagonist of his own story. It's just that for Luffy we see all these different creative ways he has to get stronger and adapt and for that same exponential growth for rival Coby, it's.... uh.... battleship sandbags? Why did Garp never teach Luffy and Ace this sagely training technique lmao

 

[ShadowHeart]

Sengoku did wreck the Blackbeard Pirates

No he didn't Sengoku did nothing to them outside the 1st Shockeave. Wrecking the Blackbeard Pirates would've be what Magellan did.

 

[kkck]

I just take Shanks's warnings far more seriously than basically anything involving the massive grain of salt required for scaling anybody based on their performance against Sengoku. Also the Blackbeard Pirates are just serial jobbers, they had just taken a collective L that same day like a few hours before with Magellan.

Mihawk scaling has always been fine for me, it's the Whitebeard executives in general that make no sense. But I give Oda a LOT of grace with them in hindsight because of how crazy it was to establish so much powerscaling in Marineford. Vista goes squarely between Marco and Ace imo- even somebody objectively far weaker than Mihawk is still one of the world's best swordsmen and worthy of Mihawk having a fun spar with. Look at the top 50 dogs in the world, not a lot of "swordsmen" in there lol it's pretty slim pickings for the "WSS".

Hey I have Sengoku (Prime) at the bottom of S (which makes him at least competitive with other S-tiers), and Sengoku (Old) four rows below (Prime), which is consistent with Garp and Whitebeard's degradation. This makes him in parity with other notoriously annoying-to-scale characters Ace and Weevil, coincidentally. Funny enough, Sengoku has a near identical problem to Shiki: a meteoric difference in the story telling the reader "this guy tussles with Roger" and then the modern reality of not even taking out a pre-timeskip Luffy. Sengoku gets a lot of grace here for Marineford being a messy affair, but boy howdy Shiki's fall from grace is easily the largest in the series, even more of a Prime->Failure example than Croco or Moria.

Spoiler

Coby's exponential growth is only wild if you don't consider him the Shonen Protagonist of his own story. It's just that for Luffy we see all these different creative ways he has to get stronger and adapt and for that same exponential growth for rival Coby, it's.... uh.... battleship sandbags? Why did Garp never teach Luffy and Ace this sagely training technique lmao

While back then I was generally of the idea that mihawk was likely still a match to shanks (give or take) I did found this problematic in regards to how strong WB's executives were. Basically, for this to make sense to me my answer was to seriously upscale about half of WB's executives compared to at least kaido's and big mom's. I also had to adjust my view a bit based on actual evidence that at least the previous generation of admirals were all capable of going toe to toe with yonko (give or take).

Marco to his credit does get actual respect from yonko and the gorosei however I am a bit skeptical of the idea that mihawk would think a match with someone weaker than marco is worth his time or particularly fun. Mihawk as a rival to shanks is as strong or stronger than, say, kaido. Do you think kaido would find a match with vista to be fun?

I don't have any problem with weevil being of any given strength. He was introduced recently, is acknowledged as mighty by kizaru. He could be anywhere between a yonko executive and a yonko strength wise. I am guessing oda is going to lean towards the stronger side of that range given how many powerful fighters have been introduced recently.

 

[HereNThere]

Sengoku's main issue is that he just isn't super important to the narrative. He's a strong character who just fell through the cracks. Just like Kong and Tsuru who should be within the same realm as him power wise. Kong was literally the former Admiral and Fleet Admiral of the Marines and Tsuru who, at least early on, was often mentioned alongside Sengoku and Garp.

Also, I can't abide by the Blackbeard Pirates libel. They have racked up Ws all through the timeskip. We just see them at their worst. Like if we only popped in on the Strawhats during their mid arc failure sprees and saw nothing of their successes.

 

[Tonix]

Also, I can't abide by the Blackbeard Pirates libel. They have racked up Ws all through the timeskip. We just see them at their worst. Like if we only popped in on the Strawhats during their mid arc failure sprees and saw nothing of their successes.

I mean, Blackbeard Pirates doubters do have a point. They get hyped up for things that happen off screen, but get their asses kicked pretty much every time they are on screen. People like Boa and Garp went through them like a hot knife through butter until Blackbeard and Aokoji stepped in to save them.

They seem be just as top heavy as the Strawhats, which makes sense since they are seemingly being set up to fight each other, but that also means there have to be some members that there are a bunch of members that are more around Franky, Robin, Brook, Chopper, Nami, and Usopp’s level. They can’t all be (and obviously aren’t) a bunch of Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbeis.

The Strawhats have been stacking up Ws too, but not all of them are upper tier either.