Discussion Over-hyped magic

[DemonKing888]

I think you're just being a bit pessimistic about them. Chelia is basically the same as Wendy and Zancrow is basically the same as Natsu except Zeref killed him. I think we'll still have a chance to see how strong Orga is right now, and if you judge by his magic alone (at the GMG), it wouldn't be that disappointing (his attack against Jura had enough energy to bust a small town). The problem is his physical strength though.
Besides, the DS are the main characters of the series and Gray is one of the most important characters too, so it's logical that they'll have more space to develop their strength.

Maybe your right, maybe your wrong, your opinion is a valid one. honestly this arc may just be our only chance to see a Godslayer live up to their name.

 

[Coné]

Thanks for NLF. Sounds about right what I was trying to say.

To me Sema is stronger than Roaring thunder by a fair bit, and I base this on AoE. Sema has OS member (minimum level) DC multiplied by a huge AoE. Roaring thunder is a finisher for Laxus (can take out Jura but definitely not a one shot, Jura had taken a lot of dmg and used a lot of power) with small AoE. The DC for the attacks on wizards seems about the same but AoE is much in Sema's favour (proxy for power can be DC x AoE - loose estimate).

Laxus best attack is Fairy Law. I find in Jellal v Laxus discussions Sema is seen as the trump card but FL is forgotten (like the manga has).

Yeah, Roaring Thunder being stronger than Sema is kinda random, because Sema has a huge explosion in its side of the argument.

Laxus' Fairy Law is featless. Thunder Palace is arguably Laxus' strongest spell after his current nuke and his bolt, but its casting time is kinda... yikes! Adding Fairy Law to my list (it also falls under NLF )

I honestly don't see God Slayers ever being on the level of Dragon and Devil Slayers.

What their name implies is somewhat shaky in the first place. I doubt God Slayers slay Gods.

Ankhseram vs Chelia, Orga and Zancrow confirmed?

Didn't Zancrow consider Hades a god or something? There goes its credibility

Maybe your right, maybe your wrong, your opinion is a valid one. honestly this arc may just be our only chance to see a Godslayer live up to their name.

I pretty much agree with this.

 

[Brandish μ]

Not even going to compare current Laxus to anything before, MP is on a different level. I couldn't call his current nuke stronger than his current Roaring thunder for example.

As for Fairy Law it isn't featless, Makarov has showed what it can do. Laxus activated Fairy Law, we saw the light stretch across Magnolia (intended AoE). He didn't stuff up the casting (no Ankhseram curse). What he didn't do is satisfy the condition that he needs to have enemies for the spell to work. In his heart he didn't view Magnolia/FT as his enemy. There shouldn't be any reason to think Laxus can't use FL on someone he truly sees as the enemy, we might even see it this arc when he protects the guild

 

[Coné]

Not even going to compare current Laxus to anything before, MP is on a different level. I couldn't call his current nuke stronger than his current Roaring thunder for example.

As for Fairy Law it isn't featless, Makarov has showed what it can do. Laxus activated Fairy Law, we saw the light stretch across Magnolia (intended AoE). He didn't stuff up the casting (no Ankhseram curse). What he didn't do is satisfy the condition that he needs to have enemies for the spell to work. In his heart he didn't view Magnolia/FT as his enemy. There shouldn't be any reason to think Laxus can't use FL on someone he truly sees as the enemy, we might even see it this arc when he protects the guild

Yeah, I'm saying as of now.

Laxus' Fairy Tail is indeed featless. Unless you want to scale him with Makarov, that is, but they probably have different profficiency levels. It didn't work, so we can't just say who it's going to work against or whatever.

 

[Brandish μ]

Why would I need to scale him to Makarov? Does someone need to be as strong as Makarov to use it? Mavis was a little girl when she used it. It will come down to skill and MP, something Laxus met the criteria for (it activated as we saw in manga). Like I said the only think he didn't do was meet the enemy condition, and that is how we know the spell didn't work.

What is featless is if the spell can be used on enemies much stronger than you, like Makarov vs Acnologia. Hades thought to stop Makarov casting it, so from that I can assume a Makarov level person can use it on Hades level. This is where you could do some scaling.

 

[Coné]

Why would I need to scale him to Makarov? Does someone need to be as strong as Makarov to use it? Mavis was a little girl when she used it. It will come down to skill and MP, something Laxus met the criteria for (it activated as we saw in manga). Like I said the only think he didn't do was meet the enemy condition, and that is how we know the spell didn't work.

What is featless is if the spell can be used on enemies much stronger than you, like Makarov vs Acnologia. Hades thought to stop Makarov casting it, so from that I can assume a Makarov level person can use it on Hades level. This is where you could do some scaling.

Yeah, that's what I said. You can't scale it because it comes down to skill. Laxus activated Fairy Law, but due to certain circumstances, it didn't work. So, how am I supposed to know exactly who it will affect? Then it's featless.

 

[Brandish μ]

Yeah, that's what I said. You can't scale it because it comes down to skill. Laxus activated Fairy Law, but due to certain circumstances, it didn't work. So, how am I supposed to know exactly who it will affect? Then it's featless.

Ok. What do you mean skill? Laxus cast it, the 'skill' was met. The MP was met. The condition wasn't. It's a special type of spell that has a condition, this should be considered as a requirement separate to that of skill or MP.

@underlined: The circumstance is the people who it will affect. An enemy of Laxus (let's say anyone not vastly more powerful) will be affected.

 

[Coné]

Ok. What do you mean skill? Laxus cast it, the 'skill' was met. The MP was met. The condition wasn't. It's a special type of spell that has a condition, this should be considered as a requirement separate to that of skill or MP.

@underlined: The circumstance is the people who it will affect. An enemy of Laxus (let's say anyone not vastly more powerful) will be affected.

Yeah, but exactly which enemy will it affect? An enemy of which level? This is where Fairy Law's description enters and it's described as "a magic that slays everything the caster sees as evil". And this is where NLF enters. FL clearly falls under NLF because its mechanisms are unknown, so it means that Laxus' Fairy Law will be regarded as featless until its mechanisms are explained or until Laxus uses it effectively.

 

[Brandish μ]

Mashima has probably acknowledged it's OP nature and is not used anymore.

Having feats to scale off is not really my thing particularly for a spell that is special. But I'll entertain you on this. Makarov used it on Jose, a feat that someone comparable can be stopped by it. Hades didn't want it cast on him, so someone Hades level is implied to suffer from someone Makarov level. Makarov said it didn't matter how far GH members would run, this implies the spell can hit multiple targets and has great AoE (Laxus had Magnolia level AoE). Given those assertions I see Makarov comparing to Hades as Laxus would compare to Gildarts in terms of scaling. So anyone with power less than Gildarts could be affected in Magnolia if Laxus indeed had it out to destroy everyone.

That scaling could be filled with errors, Idk. Depending on how things are scaled I don't really like doing it, I prefer simple comparisons.

I'll agree to disagree on Laxus being able to use it or not, I've stated how I interpreted the events in above posts. How did you interpret him not using FL? Do you think he is not competent enough to use it?

 

[Coné]

Mashima has probably acknowledged it's OP nature and is not used anymore.

Having feats to scale off is not really my thing particularly for a spell that is special. But I'll entertain you on this. Makarov used it on Jose, a feat that someone comparable can be stopped by it. Hades didn't want it cast on him, so someone Hades level is implied to suffer from someone Makarov level. Makarov said it didn't matter how far GH members would run, this implies the spell can hit multiple targets and has great AoE (Laxus had Magnolia level AoE). Given those assertions I see Makarov comparing to Hades as Laxus would compare to Gildarts in terms of scaling. So anyone with power less than Gildarts could be affected in Magnolia if Laxus indeed had it out to destroy everyone.

That scaling could be filled with errors, Idk. Depending on how things are scaled I don't really like doing it, I prefer simple comparisons.

I'll agree to disagree on Laxus being able to use it or not, I've stated how I interpreted the events in above posts. How did you interpret him not using FL? Do you think he is not competent enough to use it?

I agree on your first point. It would probably be used as a plot device just to get out of battles, but then we have DF and Benizakura

Ok, so that would mean that Makarov's Fairy Law currently has as a lower limit defeating characters up to Jose's level (includes Current Erza, Gajeel, Gray, Kyouka, Torafuza, etc) and as an upper limit defeating characters up to Hades' level (includes Zero, Bluenote, Gildarts, Jura, Jellal, Mard, etc). Analyzing this: characters below Jose's level have no chance against Makarov, while characters between Jose and Hades' level have a chance depending on whether the upper limit is accepted or not.
I agree with your first part of thought process, but the second part has somewhat faulty logic. First, Current Laxus is actually above Tartaros Gildarts. Second, we can't make that kind of comparison since this is just the analysis of a single spell (depends on skill, not power, as shown) and not of overall capacities, otherwise it would be correct. Third, if Laxus is stated to have the same proficiency in using Fairy Law, then we can scale Makarov's feats to Laxus and no other kind of scaling is required.
As we don't have any statement that indicate anything, we're just speculating and here we don't give the benefit of doubt. Meaning that Laxus' Fairy Law is featless.

I think Laxus was competent enough to use it, but we can't analyze it because it didn't work. Same goes for other spells such as Memento Mori, etc.

 

[Brandish μ]

- Limits used are not correct. Jose can be onshotted, Hades is implied to also get oneshotted. That is not a range, we don't know the upper limit at all. Hades thinking he will get taken out means he believes his power level will get beaten, this does not rule out higher levels being taken out. The reason why I consider Hades and Jose in separate is not for limit purposes but because of information (Hades is implied, Jose is feats; Jose is the better quality of info). I only did this because you wanted to try and scale it, and as I've mentioned it will get messy for this as FL is a special technique (usual aspects such as DC/AoE etc that would be used to infer power do not work here)
- What skill is needed? If a spell is cast, the skills are met, aren't they? Only time I can remember something not really working was FG for Cana on Tenrou, but Bluenote kinda evaded that (the spell worked)
- I was talking about Fantasia Laxus, attempting to scale (Gildarts/Laxus). The difference between them is roughly the same as Makarov and Hades, well maybe not but it's the closest I can think about.
- I disagree on featlessness. Wouldn't use it for a vs thread, but if he is able to use it the effects will be the same as Makarov's. Reasonably speaking it should work the same until feats suggest otherwise, imo.
- WHY do you think FL didn't work?

I think we're disagreeing on how to interpret events more than anything. Simply put I am not trying to scale anything, I don't want to prove how strong something is. Nor do I consider feats as something you can scale with any great accuracy most of the time, no more than interpreting with your eyes and making a quick judgement, because this is not science. Not saying I am right or anything or you're wrong. The idea that feats are needed for everything is not exactly ideal when we're talking about a manga where feats are limited, particularly for minor characters. (Edit: I consider feats the best info though)

It's not like I am trying to prove anything extraordinary (Laxus can use FL as my claim), the account of events and portrayal/statements is that Laxus FL didn't work coz of his heart/feelings. It's even wrong to say 'it didn't work', it's technically right to say 'it didn't affect anyone' or 'there was no enemy in his cast'.

 

[Cosmicstar]

Fairy Glitter:

Mori Mento: Featless spell that people say can beat anyone, although it hasn't done anything to anyone.

Thorns: People have scaled Marde Geer thorns to Cityy+level. LOL. When did that happen?

DeS magic: Not really the magic but Gray himself.

ISD: Iron shadow isn't as powerful as people claim.

Water Body: One of the most overrated things ever in this series.Physical attacks can stop Juvia's water body if applied with enough force. Like when you go to a swimming pool and hit the water, then the water splatters.

I wouldn't call Brandish magic over hyped. I mean people scale it to what it was shown which was island level.

 

[Coné]

- Limits used are not correct. Jose can be onshotted, Hades is implied to also get oneshotted. That is not a range, we don't know the upper limit at all. Hades thinking he will get taken out means he believes his power level will get beaten, this does not rule out higher levels being taken out. The reason why I consider Hades and Jose in separate is not for limit purposes but because of information (Hades is implied, Jose is feats; Jose is the better quality of info). I only did this because you wanted to try and scale it, and as I've mentioned it will get messy for this as FL is a special technique (usual aspects such as DC/AoE etc that would be used to infer power do not work here)
- What skill is needed? If a spell is cast, the skills are met, aren't they? Only time I can remember something not really working was FG for Cana on Tenrou, but Bluenote kinda evaded that (the spell worked)
- I was talking about Fantasia Laxus, attempting to scale (Gildarts/Laxus). The difference between them is roughly the same as Makarov and Hades, well maybe not but it's the closest I can think about.
- I disagree on featlessness. Wouldn't use it for a vs thread, but if he is able to use it the effects will be the same as Makarov's. Reasonably speaking it should work the same until feats suggest otherwise, imo.
- WHY do you think FL didn't work?

I think we're disagreeing on how to interpret events more than anything. Simply put I am not trying to scale anything, I don't want to prove how strong something is. Nor do I consider feats as something you can scale with any great accuracy most of the time, no more than interpreting with your eyes and making a quick judgement, because this is not science. Not saying I am right or anything or you're wrong. The idea that feats are needed for everything is not exactly ideal when we're talking about a manga where feats are limited, particularly for minor characters. (Edit: I consider feats the best info though)

It's not like I am trying to prove anything extraordinary (Laxus can use FL as my claim), the account of events and portrayal/statements is that Laxus FL didn't work coz of his heart/feelings. It's even wrong to say 'it didn't work', it's technically right to say 'it didn't affect anyone' or 'there was no enemy in his cast'.

- It's correct that Jose can be one-shotted by Makarov, but what we're doing with Hades is nothing but speculation, because we can't assure that he would have been beat. I won't rule out the chance that it might beat someone stronger than Hades, but as FL falls under NLF, it's fair that we use Hades as an upper limit for it.
- If a spell is casted, we can't know what effect it would have had on everyone because it didn't work due to certain conditions. Laxus casted it, so what would happen if it had worked? It wouldn't just have one-shotted everyone because it worked. That's why FL falls under NLF and that's why Laxus' Fairy Law is featless.
- Ok, still doesn't apply.
- The effects won't be the same as Makarov's because he's never shown us that he has the same level of proficiency. Fairy Law works just because it works, but this can't be proved until Laxus does use it. That's exactly what NLF is about. Their level of proficiency won't be the same or I could do the same with any other spell with the same name.
- It didn't work because he didn't see anyone as an enemy.

If Fairy Law's mechanisms were explained, then I would say that Laxus can attain the same level as Makarov and I would even say that he could use it on anyone without hax resistance. Are they explained though? No, they're not, so feats are needed to do anything with Fairy Law on versus and powerscaling threads.

 

[iDooom]

In no particular order:
Bluenote's gravity (which base Tenrou Natsu resisted and Gildarts was unaffected by)
Fairy Law (has only defeated Jose, who, like Bluenote, is fodder at this point)
Various slayer techniques (stuff relating to Natsu, Gajeel, Gray, especially)
Gildarts crash (people still think that Gildarts is FT's strongest mage...)

Probably a few more that I'm missing.

 

[Kouichi]

1. Age Seal by Dimaria
2. Bradman's Third seal
3. Jacob's transport since we haven't saw Top Tiers getting caught by that aside from Brandish
4. Macro
5. Fairy Glitter?

 

[Summer]

1.Requip - The Knight.
- this magic is really overhyped even tho it's just simple magic where people change armor to gains certain stats, and erza is possibly the only one that is good with it.
2.Heavenly Body Magic
- I don't really see anything impressive about this magic but has seen many people taking it to another level while it's not that impressive.
3.Devil Slaying Magic
- while I like DeS magic in general, I still see people over hyped this magic. It's cool but not to that absurd level.
4.Dragon Slaying Magic
-apparently if someone is a Dragon Slayer, they will be consider strong even though by feats, some certain DS are not that impressive
5.Enchantment
-People are acting like once someone Is enchanted into animal, they're going to lose. While that is not really true.

 

[Solitrine]

God Slayer magic isn't overrated generally, it' stronger than DS magic from what we know. The users of GS magic will never be anywhere near the level of their respective Dragon Slayers (apart from Chelia) because they have no plot importance in the series.

As for overrated I'd say Fairy Law.

 

[Arjuna]

I will say
Macro
First Seal of Bloodman
Crash Magic

 

[extremebegins123]

seal age
mass manipulation
fairy law
macro
death magic

 

[Demon Hunter]

Sema and DeS magic.