Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Nie Li]

Jimbei still strong, never said he wasn't and possible could best Mihawk since Mihawk couldn't beat YC lvl opponents himself, but just saying Sanji already taken on candidates for YC lvl position like PO and Drake, so he is quite above margin. Could say if facing Jimbei would be High-Diff fight for him, so not easily, but due keep factor Sanji still more growth to grow and reach his Prime while Jimebi kinda reach his full potential more or less already given his age.

Until we see Mihawk put some effort into an attack, get injured, defeated or at least have one single serious fight, I wouldn't interpreter Marineford like that. Mihawk has to be at least YC for Zoro to remain interesting as a character and for his character to be have a parallel with Rayleigh.
Mihawk was pretty chill throughout the war.

I've nothing to add about Jimbei, just pointing that out about Brohawk.

 

[kkck]

The way I see it nothing in the story justifies sanji being as strong as mid tier yonko commanders. Maybe not even as strong as low tier yonko commander... Jinbe in turn is probably at around the level of a mid tier yonko commander... Short of Doflamingo who is just short of top 3 yonko commanders.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

He gave up the fight against Judge, that isn't really one you can count a fight nor was going to gore through people to get to judge who cheated to win. By your logic I guess Zoro losing Kamazou is more justified now if we disregarding another being involved of the fight.

Yeah, but you forget YCs are there too and he face them before facing Kanjuro, but Zoro could come in to face him given his lost of direction though.

LMFAO what part of the judge fight you don't get?
Sanji never gives up on the fight. Judge beat him and that's why the skirmish ends. It was not a fight to death, just a short clash. And judge beat sanji.
I would say human wall is part of judge arsenal but i will be generous here and let it be considered as "cheating". However, Judge didn't cheat in the aerial fight. Read back the chapter, kiddo

 

[King Moe]

The way I see it nothing in the story justifies sanji being as strong as mid tier yonko commanders. Maybe not even as strong as low tier yonko commander... Jinbe in turn is probably at around the level of a mid tier yonko commander... Short of Doflamingo who is just short of top 3 yonko commanders.

Sanji got stronger since then, if we going to count to opponent they lost to arcs ago and think they aren't stronger, but that same logic we shouldn't see Law being strong since he lost to him too, but instead Oda push him same level as Kidd and Luffy as main threats to Kaido in the long run. Sanji already took out PO who was in-line to be All-Star Candidate and Drake couldn't do much better in faring with him, so it pushes Sanji more in YC lvl than before after training and preparing for the war. I don't see why he wouldn't since Luffy going to face Kaido despite seeing him get defeated early, but that won't stop him. Make sense his main force have to be YC lvl after the arc is done.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

LMFAO what part of the judge fight you don't get?
Sanji never gives up on the fight. Judge beat him and that's why the skirmish ends. It was not a fight to death, just a short clash. And judge beat sanji.
I would say human wall is part of judge arsenal but i will be generous here and let it be considered as "cheating". However, Judge didn't cheat in the aerial fight. Read back the chapter, kiddo

He did gave up as he talks about disgusting fact of him using human shields like he did. He use them to proect from his hits and thus cheated to win in the end. Heavily implied Judge couldn't take him in overall fight and had to use own of his people to gain a chance in the fight. He cheated and Sanji already superior to him. Not same case with Zoro vs Kamazou who failed because of his incompetence of not being ahead on stopping Kamazou straightforward strike and fainting to him easily for example.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020 ---

Until we see Mihawk put some effort into an attack, get injured, defeated or at least have one single serious fight, I wouldn't interpreter Marineford like that. Mihawk has to be at least YC for Zoro to remain interesting as a character and for his character to be have a parallel with Rayleigh.
Mihawk was pretty chill throughout the war.

I've nothing to add about Jimbei, just pointing that out about Brohawk.

While he hold back, same can be said on YCs he faced as Jozu and especially Vista weren't trying either at all. Marineford push him around their level. At best you could say he is above them all, but can't say he is at level of Yonkos and Admirals who have better feats than he does. So can be either way who wins in a fight between the two as if YC3 and YC5 stop him, Jimbei could have a chance to get around especially with water in his fighting.

 

[kkck]

Sanji got stronger since then, if we going to count to opponent they lost to arcs ago and think they aren't stronger, but that same logic we shouldn't see Law being strong since he lost to him too, but instead Oda push him same level as Kidd and Luffy as main threats to Kaido in the long run. Sanji already took out PO who was in-line to be All-Star Candidate and Drake couldn't do much better in faring with him, so it pushes Sanji more in YC lvl than before after training and preparing for the war. I don't see why he wouldn't since Luffy going to face Kaido despite seeing him get defeated early, but that won't stop him. Make sense his main force have to be YC lvl after the arc is done.

Law performed against doflamingo substantially better than sanji did. Law at least had the capacity to block doflamingo's attacks... contrary to sanji who got owned without being able to put up much of a fight. At a minimum back in dressrosa the difference between law and sanji was more than obvious. And page one is a bit of a joke so far. He recovers quickly from attacks but... that's about it so far. Add to that, the main issue sanji has in fights so far is his sub par haki. Raid suit makes for a shiny crutch but a crutch can only take you so far. Sanji needs a lot more to actually evidence being competitive at even the mid level yonko commander tier.

 

[M3J]

@M3J It looks that Oda is sidelining Sanji combat wise more and more. Depending on how he fares in Wano, he could be pushed down in weaker half of the crew, depending on the performance of Franky and Robin who have potential to easily surpass Sanji and as well if another strong member joins like Yamato.

But he seems to be doing that to most Straw Hats. Not sure why Sanji gets singled out here.

Sanji will also never get pushed down or be made weaker than Franky or Robin. The opportunity for that is long gone, Sanji will always be part of the Monster group.

 

[King Moe]

Law performed against doflamingo substantially better than sanji did. Law at least had the capacity to block doflamingo's attacks... contrary to sanji who got owned without being able to put up much of a fight. At a minimum back in dressrosa the difference between law and sanji was more than obvious. And page one is a bit of a joke so far. He recovers quickly from attacks but... that's about it so far. Add to that, the main issue sanji has in fights so far is his sub par haki. Raid suit makes for a shiny crutch but a crutch can only take you so far. Sanji needs a lot more to actually evidence being competitive at even the mid level yonko commander tier.

Still lost end of the day, but again doesn't mean characters didn't train and get stronger since then. Can't zero out others just for not managing against someone and think they are sane state even now. Not really a joke as he strong guy as much shown he is one of the few to be All Star Candidate. For Sanji to easily waste him shows he stronger than before by beating YV that easily. It shows he improves since then so using Doflamingo thinking he won't fight stronger enemies is kinda redundant as performance in the arc is showing he is apart of main fighting forces overall. Sanji's abilities is pretty high up there without RS as he doesn't rely on suit for fighting just certain uses since end of the day he doesn't want be like Germs who more dependant on fighting with a RS while his is for different uses and his power still more his own.

 

[Nie Li]

While he hold back, same can be said on YCs he faced as Jozu and especially Vista weren't trying either at all. Marineford push him around their level. At best you could say he is above them all, but can't say he is at level of Yonkos and Admirals who have better feats than he does. So can be either way who wins in a fight between the two as if YC3 and YC5 stop him, Jimbei could have a chance to get around especially with water in his fighting.

Well, he needs to be stronger than Vista because he's the world's strongest swordsman, and his interaction with Jozu was just Jozu stopping one random slash that wasn't especifically aimed at trying to cut his diamond body.
It's true Vista must be quite strong and also didn't break a sweat. He might be stronger than he seems, and using my same logic, he could possibly have beaten Mihawk if they had fought all out. We don't really know (although I assume he wouldn't be able to).
My point is just that those encounters can't be used to downplay Mihawk because they were very casual clashes none of them took seriously.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Not same case with Zoro vs Kamazou who failed because of his incompetence of not being ahead on stopping Kamazou straightforward strike and fainting to him easily for example.

This topic is about sanji, not zoro. Please learn to be in topic when discussing something.

 

[HereNThere]

The way I see it nothing in the story justifies sanji being as strong as mid tier yonko commanders.

This is true.

But he seems to be doing that to most Straw Hats. Not sure why Sanji gets singled out here.

Sanji will also never get pushed down or be made weaker than Franky or Robin. The opportunity for that is long gone, Sanji will always be part of the Monster group.

This is also true.

Sanji's going to be fine. He's been given the bare minimum of fights in the timeskip (like the majority of Strawhats as @M3J pointed out) but, as I've said before, Oda has always made it clear that his strength is still a key part of the crew and that he isn't falling behind the other two.

He's not shown any Yonkou Commander feats yet, no one has aside from Luffy except for Jinbe, depending on how you want to read his portrayal against a nerfed Big Mom.

 

[afromarco005]

With momo captured and every major beast pirates on the execution stage, is Oda setting up a big Sanji moment where he appears on the stage in the middle of all the big shots and rescues momo from right under their noses?

Something epic like

 

[kkck]

Momo's rescue is likely to be a big event in the series.... but there is no specific reason for sanji to be the one to do it. If oda is going for emotional points then it makes more sense for the scabbards to handle this. And if not them, luffy. Otherwise pretty much anyone is as much a candidate as sanji.

 

[afromarco005]

Momo's rescue is likely to be a big event in the series.... but there is no specific reason for sanji to be the one to do it. If oda is going for emotional points then it makes more sense for the scabbards to handle this. And if not them, luffy. Otherwise pretty much anyone is as much a candidate as sanji.

sanji suddenly left nami's group its certainly for a reason.
Momo seem to be suffering right now, sanji is a very kind dude and he happens to have great speed and invisibility

I don't see why it'd be impossible for him to at least try to save the kid

 

[goldb]

sanji suddenly left nami's group its certainly for a reason.
Momo seem to be suffering right now, sanji is a very kind dude and he happens to have great speed and invisibility

I don't see why it'd be impossible for him to at least try to save the kid

He's gone to look for women, he said.

It's not impossible for him to try, I think what @kkck is saying that we shouldn't single him out as if it was his mission or written solely for him to rescue Momo. If it was written for anyone other than the Scabbard to rescue him, it'd be Luffy or Nami's group, who've specifically said they would do so.

Using his Raid Suit, he certainly can make his way to that podium and grab Momo easier than most.

 

[afromarco005]

As someone pointed before, when Sanji disappears it's always for an epic moment that's why I thought it'd be cool for him to appear on the big stage.

I just want him to have a cool moment that's all

 

[thedude]

I do believe Sanji will be the one to get to the stage first. He seemed to run off in the direction that Nami and the others are running (away from BM), which BM said is the stage.

But having said that...it's not just queen on stage anymore, so we'll see if Sanji grabs Momo, and then has Kaido send one of his big 3 against.

Really, I'm hoping that the next few chapters start setting up the final matchups.

 

[kkck]

The raid suit alone shouldn't be enough to rescue momo. being invisible doesn't mean you can't be felt with haki... And at the location momo is at there should be plenty people with at least usable observation haki. Whoever rescues momo would still a distraction to pull it off.

 

[King Moe]

He's gone to look for women, he said.

It's not impossible for him to try, I think what @kkck is saying that we shouldn't single him out as if it was his mission or written solely for him to rescue Momo. If it was written for anyone other than the Scabbard to rescue him, it'd be Luffy or Nami's group, who've specifically said they would do so.

Using his Raid Suit, he certainly can make his way to that podium and grab Momo easier than most.

Pretty sure Sanji is lying about women stuff since flashback doesn't shown him like heart eyes and not first time he said he 'off to do something' then come back in twist in major arcs like back in previous arcs like Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, and so on.

I do agree he is playing role to rescue Momo and possibly into fighting either King or Queen in process.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

I do believe Sanji will be the one to get to the stage first. He seemed to run off in the direction that Nami and the others are running (away from BM), which BM said is the stage.

But having said that...it's not just queen on stage anymore, so we'll see if Sanji grabs Momo, and then has Kaido send one of his big 3 against.

Really, I'm hoping that the next few chapters start setting up the final matchups.

Good chance it be King who goes after him given both can fly and could be Sky Fight to happen, but of course Queen won't be far off and be on going after him for spotlight too.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020 ---

Well, he needs to be stronger than Vista because he's the world's strongest swordsman, and his interaction with Jozu was just Jozu stopping one random slash that wasn't especifically aimed at trying to cut his diamond body.
It's true Vista must be quite strong and also didn't break a sweat. He might be stronger than he seems, and using my same logic, he could possibly have beaten Mihawk if they had fought all out. We don't really know (although I assume he wouldn't be able to).
My point is just that those encounters can't be used to downplay Mihawk because they were very casual clashes none of them took seriously.

That was one of his more powerful slashes that Jozu took care of made for WB and he easily block it as well Vista stopping his attacks as well. Also Idk about that as Crocodile even stop him from going after Luffy who is fellow Warlord, so if so then Jimbei has more to stop him the same way if not more. Not downplaying him as of course he still strong, but see him like in-between of Admirals and YCs from how portrayal shown about him.

 

[thedude]

Pretty sure Sanji is lying about women stuff since flashback doesn't shown him like heart eyes and not first time he said he 'off to do something' then come back in twist in major arcs like back in previous arcs like Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, and so on.

I do agree he is playing role to rescue Momo and possibly into fighting either King or Queen in process.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 7, 2020 ---

Good chance it be King who goes after him given both can fly and could be Sky Fight to happen, but of course Queen won't be far off and be on going after him for spotlight too.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 7, 2020 ---

That was one of his more powerful slashes that Jozu took care of made for WB and he easily block it as well Vista stopping his attacks as well. Also Idk about that as Crocodile even stop him from going after Luffy who is fellow Warlord, so if so then Jimbei has more to stop him the same way if not more. Not downplaying him as of course he still strong, but see him like in-between of Admirals and YCs from how portrayal shown about him.

I would see Queen being the one since in the end, he's the one doing the entertainment, and the stage was his. Either way, I hope this comes to pass, just because it would shift us to the real battles we've been waiting for.

 

[HereNThere]

Eh, it's up in the air as to whether or not he's going to save Momo.

He's a prime candidate given his current repitoire, but I'm not sure. There are a few things I'm considering...

Would Oda use this moment to reveal Sanji's new Raid Suit design? And if he doesn't, will he just have Momo disappear mid panel without anyone, including the All Stars, noticing?

Why would he have Sanji lie about the ladies if the crew already know that saving Momo is a priority mission? Why hide it?

Sanji is the only Strawhat who's current location and objective is completely unknown. Everyone else should be in the castle, in the way towards the stage, or at the back of the castle as per their plan. Why have him split when he could've easily stuck with Kine'mon and, presumably, have still sensed Momo?

It feels like Oda is building up to something else for Sanji. Then again, who knows, maybe he could do his Mr. Prince thing then come in to save Momo after.

Really, I'm hoping that the next few chapters start setting up the final matchups.

You ain't lying. It's bad enough we have a crap ton of individuals already, but if the pattern holds, we'll still have to wait awhile for Sanji's he's usually the third from last fight.