Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Grandmaster Woro]

Nah, Luffy has seen naked women more than once and Zoro has been on issue too on certain scenes. Again by that they are all same situation. I am just examples you guys forcing real life into gags and by logic, Zoro would be on suspect for in his position of sleeping next to a prostitute and next to a child. Not insecurity, but just showing you how dumb your trying to force this into real life nature when Oda has use perverted moments on everyone in the crew to be involved in.


If you see that in real life of prostitute and a child sleeping next to someone? What your thoughts on that?

Idk why you keep posting to me most of the time given I already ignored you. Trying to talk with people on canon, but here few you talking like Sanji will harm a woman when we just have situation he will never harm a woman. Either be serious or don't continue debate to go off topic.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

Now let's move onto something else instead of headcannon for once. Do you guys think Sanji can use more moves in combination to new Cipher Pol moves he has? As Idk if Sky Walk is only one he learn as could be certain moves he learn especially on the use of his legs.

When did zoro peek at nude women? You get to stop being bitter over zoro. Just telling you facts that sanji is a creep on women.

 

[M3J]

OK, well. So do you think we could compare Harvey Weinstein ? Would Sanji be the Harvey Weinstein of One Piece ?

no, the worst he's done is peek, but he's never assaulted a woman, even when a woman was an enemy.

 

[King Moe]

no, the worst he's done is peek, but he's never assaulted a woman, even when a woman was an enemy.

Thank you, M3J. Hard to believe we have to discuss on this when we just got shown situation of him not doing anything early with women who are even enemies and yet few think he would 'try' something on them when it goes against character of Sanji as he shown he would not harm a woman no matter what.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

When did zoro peek at nude women? You get to stop being bitter over zoro. Just telling you facts that sanji is a creep on women.

Nami for one and situation with Perona I can bet and he does get call out by Tashigi on his stance on women, so he isn't really someone you should see opposite when he isn't. Sanji is perverse, but he is most harmless compare to perverse character in the series. By your logic it fits on everyone even Zoro. It's dumb to put real life to a gag when they are made to not be serious, not to be.

 

[A$APBog]

Thank you, M3J. Hard to believe we have to discuss on this when we just got shown situation of him not doing anything early with women who are even enemies and yet few think he would 'try' something on them when it goes against character of Sanji as he shown he would not harm a woman no matter what.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

Nami for one and situation with Perona I can bet and he does get call out by Tashigi on his stance on women, so he isn't really someone you should see opposite when he isn't. Sanji is perverse, but he is most harmless compare to perverse character in the series. By your logic it fits on everyone even Zoro. It's dumb to put real life to a gag when they are made to not be serious, not to be.

To be honest, they are right. Sanji is clearly a freak when it comes to women.

And stop comparing him to Zoro in this subject.

Zoro is just deeply sexist, I can't remember a moment where he was peeping Perona or Nami personally. He's not a harasser.

 

[King Moe]

To be honest, they are right. Sanji is clearly a freak when it comes to women.

And stop comparing him to Zoro in this subject.

Zoro is just deeply sexist, I can't remember a moment where he was peeping Perona or Nami personally. He's not a harasser.

Not really. Where has he sexual assault a woman as if you believe Sanji would actually do that then you haven't pay attention to his character since his debut. No matter what, he won't do anything to a woman. He can be pervert, but crossing line to actually 'harm' a woman is not inside of him. You shouldn't believe words of those with biased opinions like those above.

Zoro would be found same reason as he has peak on woman few times like in Alabasta as one of the examples and being with well-known prostitute on his side while kid too doesn't make image look good if we judging on real life perspective. If your stating that on Sanji, you got call it out on everyone if we using real life. Though truth is neither are harasser and you and few are headcannon to think they are when they are not.

 

[Nie Li]

Not really. Where has he sexual assault a woman as if you believe Sanji would actually do that then you haven't pay attention to his character since his debut. No matter what, he won't do anything to a woman. He can be pervert, but crossing line to actually 'harm' a woman is not inside of him. You shouldn't believe words of those with biased opinions like those above.

Zoro would be found same reason as he has peak on woman few times like in Alabasta as one of the examples and being with well-known prostitute on his side while kid too doesn't make image look good if we judging on real life perspective. If your stating that on Sanji, you got call it out on everyone if we using real life. Though truth is neither are harasser and you and few are headcannon to think they are when they are not.

Zoro didn't peek in Arabasta.

You can defend Sanji from these accusations as much as you want, but trying to deflect them onto Zoro, the only one on the crew who wasn't interested in peeping at all even in Arabasta, won't do you any good.

 

[King Moe]

Zoro didn't peek in Arabasta.

You can defend Sanji from these accusations as much as you want, but trying to deflect them onto Zoro, the only one on the crew who wasn't interested in peeping at all even in Arabasta, won't do you any good.

He did. Nami 'Happiness Punch' everyone. Zoro was included. By that logic he on same accusations.

Zoro has his moments and if we adding real life to gags, he still contributed or he just sexist guy on how he see women. Actually defending the characters how not take gags seriously. Using examples, not deflecting. Overall you shouldn't compare real life to the gags or even take them in that tone when it wasn't like that with those characters.

 

[Nie Li]

He did. Nami 'Happiness Punch' everyone. Zoro was included. By that logic he on same accusations.

Read the scene again.

Check the faces:

- The camel.
- Chopper.
- King Cobra.
- Usopp.
- Sanji.
- Igaram.
- Luffy.

Zoro didn't peek.

Zoro has his moments and if we adding real life to gags, he still contributed or he just sexist guy on how he see women. Actually defending the characters how not take gags seriously. Using examples, not deflecting. Overall you shouldn't compare real life to the gags or even take them in that tone when it wasn't like that with those characters.

Zoro is sexist, as demonstrated when he faced Monet. He's just not as much sexist as Sanji.

These are "gags", sure, they are, but they are still gags that make up Sanji's character. A sexist creep.

As I said: do you want to defend Sanji from that accusation? Please, do so, but stop bringing Zoro in randomly to deflect the accusations onto him and actually try to defend Sanji. Mostly because this is the Sanji thread and Zoro doesn't relate to his character in this topic.

 

[A$APBog]

Zoro is sexist, as demonstrated when he faced Monet. He's just not as much sexist as Sanji.

He is actually. Sanji is an harasser and a creep, sure. But he realized that women could be superior to him (and men generally), even in fights (cf. Robin scene)

Zoro actually thinks women are systematically inferior to men when it comes to strenght.

He is at least as sexist as Sanji (if not more) when it comes to the actual definition of "sexism" (considering that one sex is superior to the other)

However, yes. He's not a peeping tom or a pervert. Just a macho.

 

[Nie Li]

He is actually. Sanji is an harasser and a creep, sure. But he realized that women could be superior to him (and men generally), even in fights (cf. Robin scene)

Zoro actually thinks women are systematically inferior to men when it comes to strenght.

He is at least as sexist as Sanji (if not more) when it comes to the actual definition of "sexism" (considering that one sex is superior to the other)

However, yes. He's not a peeping tom or a pervert. Just a macho.

I very much disagree. Zoro is at least capable of fighting and injuring a woman, while Sanji is incapable of such. While both are clearly sexist, Sanji is clearly by far the most.

Leaving the Maria fight to Robin doesn't mean he trusts Robin to be stronger than him or anything similar, just that he trusts a woman to take on another woman. He knows he could have defeated Maria himself if he was not too sexist to engage a woman in a fight.

Compare the two. Zoro is sexist, but as much as Sanji or more, you say? If Sanji was in Zoro's place in the Monet fight what would he have done? He would have died or ran away. He wouldn't have as much as scratched monet's cheek and he would never have intimidated her to submission like Zoro did. Sanji wouldn't dare injuring a woman's mind like that.

Sanji, unlike Zoro, never has acknowledged a woman as a fighter for real. He may praise someone like Robin as strong, but his actions contradict his words, since he treats everywoman as a fragile "thing" that should be protected with care, instead of just humans. Zoro doesn't like hurting women and he gives them a preferential treatment in a fight, but he has no problem acknowledging them as fighters or opponents (Tashigi, the nun from the Baroque Works, Miss Monday, Monet...). He has a tendency of going light on them and on seeking victory without bloodshed against women, but if there's no other way around it he's brutal like he was to Miss Monday.

And that's without adding in the pervert creep elements of Sanji into the comparison.

 

[A$APBog]

I very much disagree. Zoro is at least capable of fighting and injuring a woman, while Sanji is incapable of such. While both are clearly sexist, Sanji is clearly by far the most.

Leaving the Maria fight to Robin doesn't mean he trusts Robin to be stronger than him or anything similar, just that he trusts a woman to take on another woman. He knows he could have defeated Maria himself if he was not too sexist to engage a woman in a fight.

Compare the two. Zoro is sexist, but as much as Sanji or more, you say? If Sanji was in Zoro's place in the Monet fight what would he have done? He would have died or ran away. He wouldn't have as much as scratched monet's cheek and he would never have intimidated her to submission like Zoro did. Sanji wouldn't dare injuring a woman's mind like that.

Sanji, unlike Zoro, never has acknowledged a woman as a fighter for real. He may praise someone like Robin as strong, but his actions contradict his words, since he treats everywoman as a fragile "thing" that should be protected with care, instead of just humans. Zoro doesn't like hurting women and he gives them a preferential treatment in a fight, but he has no problem acknowledging them as fighters or opponents (Tashigi, the nun from the Baroque Works, Miss Monday, Monet...). He has a tendency of going light on them and on seeking victory without bloodshed against women, but if there's no other way around it he's brutal like he was to Miss Monday.

And that's without adding in the pervert creep elements of Sanji into the comparison.

Agree to disagree I guess. I think it's more a question a value than a "Who is right, Who is wrong ?"

Zoro gives them a preferential statement because he considers them as inferior to him.

For Monet, Zoro had his "Fear" (or CoC) which allowed him to not injure her in any way. Sanji does not have something like that. I'm not sure Zoro would have done something similar if he was not able to pull his CoC.

Moreover, Zoro orally said that he considered women as inferior while Sanji just can't hurt them psychologically (we saw that with his CoA and BM punching him).

I don't think reacting to something because you've been conditioned to it during your childhood necessarily reflect your beliefs as an adult (maybe that's the point where we fundamentally disagree)

Moreover, loving somebody to the point you can hurt it/them does not mean you consider it as inferior to you. Or it would mean that Sanji consider himself as superior to BM, which would be quite insane to assume.

 

[King Moe]

Read the scene again.

Check the faces:

- The camel.
- Chopper.
- King Cobra.
- Usopp.
- Sanji.
- Igaram.
- Luffy.

Zoro didn't peek.


Zoro is sexist, as demonstrated when he faced Monet. He's just not as much sexist as Sanji.

These are "gags", sure, they are, but they are still gags that make up Sanji's character. A sexist creep.

As I said: do you want to defend Sanji from that accusation? Please, do so, but stop bringing Zoro in randomly to deflect the accusations onto him and actually try to defend Sanji. Mostly because this is the Sanji thread and Zoro doesn't relate to his character in this topic.

Kinda hard to see given how far they are on images as I can only make out a few looks. I wouldn't be so sure.

Nah, Zoro still accountable especially what he still shown and recent arc doesn't make it look good on character and Sanji is just a pervert, but with morals as he still won't harm a woman and trying to force that when we just got from early chapters him not doing anything to the female enemies doesn't make sense.

I am just using Zoro as example like I brought Luffy into the talk. Don't take everything Z vs S just because these 2 are mention in there.

 

[Nie Li]

I don't think reacting to something because you've been conditioned to it during your childhood necessarily reflect your beliefs as an adult (maybe that's the point where we fundamentally disagree)

We indeed disagree on this point.

In my opinion, it does not matter "why" Sanji is the way he is. I see it as little more than trivia. Most of any adult's actions or beliefs can be explained if we look at their childhood, but said childhood only serves to explain "why" said adult is the way he is, it doesn't serve to excuse what an adult does. Sanji simply is the way he is.

The kind of gentlemen that believe they should always pay in a date and all of that are sexist. Sexism isn't only about being rapists or beating up girlfriends. Sanji is an extreme trope of that kind of gentlemen, which makes him inherently the most sexist character on the crew.

Anyone who will refuse to hit a woman under any kind of circumstances simply because they're women, is sexist. Treating an opponent differently in the same exact situation based only on gender is by definition sexist. Is it the fault of the education he got? Maybe, but that doesn't mean he is not the way he is. In his case, it's pretty extreme since, as you say, he can't even use hardening to block Black Maria (yet he somehow used black armament and even diable jambe immediately to stop Big Mom's punch despite the risk of burning her (which should be painful even if it doesn't "injure" her, like Law's counter shock). It does seem like he's more of a "gentleman" the more beautiful his opponent is). This to me only seems like the sexism he exhibits is very deeply rooted.

Which is why, even though Zoro is pretty sexist (Zoro is kinda like most adults from before the 2000s), I see him as clearly less sexist by comparison. Does he "belittle" women by not fighting them all out? Yes, though this has only been seen so far in the Monet fight in more than 1000 chapters. He didn't fight Tashigi seriously because he didn't even need to do it to defeat her and because she reminded him of Kuina. Other than those two fights he's taken care of swiftly of any female opponent he has encountered.

And even in the Monet fight, the only fight in which he has seriously come out as sexist, he found a way to fight and defeat her. This means that while he may have "belittled" her by not going all out, at least he was capable of considering her an opponent and an enemy. Zoro didn't use CoC on Monet. Zoro slashed Monet's cheek to make her feel:
1- That Zoro could injure her with CoA despite her being a logia.
2- That he could cut up a woman, which he highlighted by his dialogue about being a caged tiger.
Then he just showcased his superior speed and strength to make her scared for her life and faked a cut in which he didn't use CoA but showed her she would have been cleaved in two if he had. Monet didn't faint like CoC victims do: she was so scared for her life she lost her mind and had an anxiety attack.

 

[King Moe]

He is actually. Sanji is an harasser and a creep, sure. But he realized that women could be superior to him (and men generally), even in fights (cf. Robin scene)

Zoro actually thinks women are systematically inferior to men when it comes to strenght.

He is at least as sexist as Sanji (if not more) when it comes to the actual definition of "sexism" (considering that one sex is superior to the other)

However, yes. He's not a peeping tom or a pervert. Just a macho.

I mean Sanji have faith on Nami and Robin fighting on their own, Idk why you few think he is sexist as it be more sexist if he choose to come into protecting them unlike Zoro who have done that. He doesn't even consider Tashigi's rival and ever hurt a woman like he hurt men. You could say same thing on Sanji, but his is more moral code from how he was raise. Nothing should stop Zoro unless we using Kuina having affect on him not harming women out of her, but irony is he never state anything her being a girl for him to hold back, but he oddly does with female enemies.

I would call not so much macho, but more idiot. Not much as Luffy, but idiot though.

 

[Nie Li]

Kinda hard to see given how far they are on images as I can only make out a few looks. I wouldn't be so sure.

Nah, Zoro still accountable especially what he still shown and recent arc doesn't make it look good on character and Sanji is just a pervert, but with morals as he still won't harm a woman and trying to force that when we just got from early chapters him not doing anything to the female enemies doesn't make sense.

I am just using Zoro as example like I brought Luffy into the talk. Don't take everything Z vs S just because these 2 are mention in there.

It is not "kinda hard to see". Make the picture bigger if you need to.

Luffy peeking and being affected by the Happiness Punch was addressed in an SBS where Oda explained that he wasn't even affected and that he only looked and then fell backwards to imitate what everyone else did.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

I mean Sanji have faith on Nami and Robin fighting on their own, Idk why you few think he is sexist as it be more sexist if he choose to come into protecting them unlike Zoro who have done that. He doesn't even consider Tashigi's rival and ever hurt a woman like he hurt men. You could say same thing on Sanji, but his is more moral code from how he was raise. Nothing should stop Zoro unless we using Kuina's having affect on him not harming women out of her, but irony is he never state anything her being a girl for him to hold back, but he oddly does with female enemies.

I would call not so much macho, but more idiot. Not much as Luffy, but idiot though.

Right. In the same comment you justify Sanji never hurting women as a moral code but call Zoro an idiot for not usually going all out against women. Man. Just, man.

 

[King Moe]

We indeed disagree on this point.

In my opinion, it does not matter "why" Sanji is the way he is. I see it as little more than trivia. Most of any adult's actions or beliefs can be explained if we look at their childhood, but said childhood only serves to explain "why" said adult is the way he is, it doesn't serve to excuse what an adult does. Sanji simply is the way he is.

The kind of gentlemen that believe they should always pay in a date and all of that are sexist. Sexism isn't only about being rapists or beating up girlfriends. Sanji is an extreme trope of that kind of gentlemen, which makes him inherently the most sexist character on the crew.

Anyone who will refuse to hit a woman under any kind of circumstances simply because they're women, is sexist. Treating an opponent differently in the same exact situation based only on gender is by definition sexist. Is it the fault of the education he got? Maybe, but that doesn't mean he is not the way he is. In his case, it's pretty extreme since, as you say, he can't even use hardening to block Black Maria (yet he somehow used black armament and even diable jambe immediately to stop Big Mom's punch despite the risk of burning her (which should be painful even if it doesn't "injure" her, like Law's counter shock). It does seem like he's more of a "gentleman" the more beautiful his opponent is). This to me only seems like the sexism he exhibits is very deeply rooted.

Which is why, even though Zoro is pretty sexist (Zoro is kinda like most adults from before the 2000s), I see him as clearly less sexist by comparison. Does he "belittle" women by not fighting them all out? Yes, though this has only been seen so far in the Monet fight in more than 1000 chapters. He didn't fight Tashigi seriously because he didn't even need to do it to defeat her and because she reminded him of Kuina. Other than those two fights he's taken care of swiftly of any female opponent he has encountered.

And even in the Monet fight, the only fight in which he has seriously come out as sexist, he found a way to fight and defeat her. This means that while he may have "belittled" her by not going all out, at least he was capable of considering her an opponent and an enemy. Zoro didn't use CoC on Monet. Zoro slashed Monet's cheek to make her feel:
1- That Zoro could injure her with CoA despite her being a logia.
2- That he could cut up a woman, which he highlighted by his dialogue about being a caged tiger.
Then he just showcased his superior speed and strength to make her scared for her life and faked a cut in which he didn't use CoA but showed her she would have been cleaved in two if he had. Monet didn't faint like CoC victims do: she was so scared for her life she lost her mind and had an anxiety attack.

I mean if we being honest all Strawhats have bad traits especially even women like Nami who wouldn't think twice using her body for money and hold debts over others and Robin is kinda a spy type of woman who do anything to survive if we go on real life aspects and they are all kinda bad traits there.

Zoro has his own, he isn't perfect either and being occasional pervert and sexist adds to his record.

Though then again why are we adding real life to the gags and perspective when they are made for humor, this isn't like serious event Oda is pushing on traits otherwise we can be here all day with many characters on their real life 'bad traits' despite it not shown as a 'bad trait' in the series, but just you with opinion on trying to force something that isn't there.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

It is not "kinda hard to see". Make the picture bigger if you need to.

Luffy peeking and being affected by the Happiness Punch was addressed in an SBS where Oda explained that he wasn't even affected and that he only looked and then fell backwards to imitate what everyone else did.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

Right. In the same comment you justify Sanji never hurting women as a moral code but call Zoro an idiot for not usually going all out against women. Man. Just, man.

Doesn't stop Luffy being label a creep if he just walks into a naked spa with women and they will react him being pervert and creep same way. If we using real life perspective whether he has interest or not, that will happen.

I mean it's character trait we seen on Sanji's debut. What does Zoro has to hold back on women as he never state much on chivalry, but yet never once he harm a woman just like Sanji much. Found hypocrisy you trying to force as Sanji thing when Zoro kinda have similar stuff to him.

 

[Nie Li]

I mean if we being honest all Strawhats have bad traits especially even women like Nami who wouldn't think twice using her body for money and hold debts over others and Robin is kinda a spy type of woman who do anything to survive if we go on real life aspects and they are all kinda bad traits there.

Zoro has his own, he isn't perfect either and being occasional pervert and sexist adds to his record.

Though then again why are we adding real life to the gags and perspective when they are made for humor, this isn't like serious event Oda is pushing on traits otherwise we can be here all day with many characters on their real life 'bad traits' despite it not shown as a 'bad trait' in the series, but just you with opinion on trying to force something that isn't there.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

Doesn't stop Luffy being label a creep if he just walks into a naked spa with women and they will react him being pervert and creep same way. If we using real life perspective whether he has interest or not, that will happen.

I mean it's character trait we seen on Sanji's debut. What does Zoro has to hold back on women as he never state much on chivalry, but yet never once he harm a woman just like Sanji much. Found hypocrisy you trying to force as Sanji thing when Zoro kinda have similar stuff to him.

I noticed that every time I call you something, you try to force a conversation next day to call me the same. I said you were being hypocritical yesterday, so here you are trying to call it back to me.

I have been saying since the beginning Zoro is also sexist, so there's no hypocrisy in my speech. However, no, Zoro has literal 0 scenes in which he's a pervert in the whole manga. No matter how many times you repeat the lie, it won't become true.

Yes, all strawhats have bad traits, but this is Sanji's thread, which is why I'm talking about Sanji's.

 

[King Moe]

I noticed that every time I call you something, you try to force a conversation next day to call me the same. I said you were being hypocritical yesterday, so here you are trying to call it back to me.

I have been saying since the beginning Zoro is also sexist, so there's no hypocrisy in my speech. However, no, Zoro has literal 0 scenes in which he's a pervert in the whole manga. No matter how many times you repeat the lie, it won't become true.

Yes, all strawhats have bad traits, but this is Sanji's thread, which is why I'm talking about Sanji's.

I don't do that when quote you to be honest. Just stating you do the same to me too.

I said 'occasionaly' perverse on Zoro, not always. While he is less perverse, he still more sexist than Sanji at least Sanji develops to let Nami and Robin fight on their own compare to before.

Using examples cause few here want add real life and act the rest don't have bad traits. If we talking about it, we have add crew into discussion too on example and comparison. Like for one even with those traits, Sanji is still wholesome guy who still won't harm a woman or make her uncomfortable especially being serious interaction. The ones you actually got be carefully on their actions are more Franky and Brook who take their action to women in more on offense if we being realistic.

 

[Nie Li]

I said 'occasionaly' perverse on Zoro, not always. While he is less perverse, he still more sexist than Sanji at least Sanji develops to let Nami and Robin fight on their own compare to before.

Alright, bring me a single example, for comparison's sake. One, single, example of Zoro being perverted in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

I'm ignoring everything else on that post because it's pretty much just your usual Sanji>Zoro nonsensical discourse, but since you insist on claiming that about Zoro, go ahead and prove it.

You've gone these days from twisting the manga to making it up. You use "occasionaly" as a way to say "it happens rarely but it happens" about things that simply never happen. I'm also still waiting for you to prove what attack from Kaido Kidd tanked.

 

[King Moe]

Alright, bring me a single example, for comparison's sake. One, single, example of Zoro being perverted in the manga.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2021 ---

I'm ignoring everything else on that post because it's pretty much just your usual Sanji>Zoro nonsensical discourse, but since you insist on claiming that about Zoro, go ahead and prove it.

You've gone these days from twisting the manga to making it up. You use "occasionaly" as a way to say "it happens rarely but it happens" about things that simply never happen. I'm also still waiting for you to prove what attack from Kaido Kidd tanked.

Sure thing. Give me time on that.

Then are you ready to move onto something talking about actual canon, not headcannon about on adding real life to series where you can heal your wounds with milk? Idk why this talk begin, but it got into this when @catagon87 wants to be biased troll on their side, but if your ready to stop it. then let's do that and don't let others like that make it Z vs S thing.

I am still waiting for proof on why other swords of Zoro didn't leave a mark you haven't got back to me either along with many statements your refusing to answer above here. Though again let's move on now.