Then are you ready to move onto something talking about actual canon, not headcannon about on adding real life to series where you can heal your wounds with milk? Idk why this talk begin, but it got into this when @catagon87 wants to be biased troll on their side, but if your ready to stop it. then let's do that and don't let others like that make it Z vs S thing.
I am still waiting for proof on why other swords of Zoro didn't leave a mark you haven't got back to me either along with many statements your refusing to answer above here. Though again let's move on now.
This is not something I have to "prove". Don't be such a sore loser. You make an unfactual claim about the manga, you prove it. What you mention here aren't claims I made and there's nothing I have to "prove" from the manga about that topic. Also: stop deflecting.
Moving on to something actually into series, Do you all think Sanji knows more Cipher Pol moves than Sky Walk? I feel he will know more than just that especially ones that require action with his legs.
Moving on to something actually into series, Do you all think Sanji knows more Cipher Pol moves than Sky Walk? I feel he will know more than just that especially ones that require action with his legs.
Sanji should have already been using Rankyaku since pre-TS. It's very inconsistent that rankyaku is created by the speed of a kick and even Kalifa and Blueno were capable of performing it. There's no way any of the CP9 as they were pre-TS are stronger than current Sanji, yet his kicking speed is slower than theirs? No way, either he has rankyaku or it's just an inconsistency from Oda.
Other than that he already moves at soru-like speeds sometimes. And the rest of the rokushiki he probably won't get them because they aren't leg-related.
Sanji should have already been using Rankyaku since pre-TS. It's very inconsistent that rankyaku is created by the speed of a kick and even Kalifa and Blueno were capable of performing it. There's no way any of the CP9 as they were pre-TS are stronger than current Sanji, yet his kicking speed is slower than theirs? No way, either he has rankyaku or it's just an inconsistency from Oda.
Other than that he already moves at soru-like speeds sometimes. And the rest of the rokushiki he probably won't get them because they aren't leg-related.
I could see that. He could infuse his DJ and could make like varies of fire projectiles on different sizes and speed if he work it into his fighting with legs.
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Actually could be possible Sanji can do an Rankyaku by now given I think there was an attack give hints he might know, but trying to remember which one that one is.
I'd prefer to not bring Harvey Weinstein into the OP world. Sanji is more like the coworker women have to deal with who can't look them in the eyes, and only ever looks at their breasts, and makes inappropriate comments all the time and tests his boundaries.
Yes, the other crews were being creep too at alabasta. But unlike sanji, they only did it once, while sanji keeps doing it.
What does zoro have to do here? You need to stop being insecure over zoro
Nah, Luffy has seen naked women more than once and Zoro has been on issue too on certain scenes. Again by that they are all same situation. I am just examples you guys forcing real life into gags and by logic, Zoro would be on suspect for in his position of sleeping next to a prostitute and next to a child. Not insecurity, but just showing you how dumb your trying to force this into real life nature when Oda has use perverted moments on everyone in the crew to be involved in.
If you see that in real life of prostitute and a child sleeping next to someone? What your thoughts on that?
You're like a bible quoter. Pull a single thing out, out of context. Zoro was bleeding to death and was saved by them. I don't get your weird insecurity in wanting to compare literally everything to Zoro. Is it because Zoro also surpasses Sanji in his ability to charm the opposite sex?
Not to mention Sanji in the same situation would have bled all over them out of his nose and it would have been super gross.
Then are you ready to move onto something talking about actual canon, not headcannon about on adding real life to series where you can heal your wounds with milk? Idk why this talk begin, but it got into this when @catagon87 wants to be biased troll on their side, but if your ready to stop it. then let's do that and don't let others like that make it Z vs S thing.
I am still waiting for proof on why other swords of Zoro didn't leave a mark you haven't got back to me either along with many statements your refusing to answer above here. Though again let's move on now.
You calling me biased, or a troll, is pretty funny. You're the only one who's accused me of trolling on this forum. Me thinking that peeping on women, sniffing them, and being all around weird / creepy around them is despicable behavior, is not anti-Sanji bias. It's me expressing my thoughts about a character in his own thread. I have clearly stated my thoughts about Sanji, including that I don't hate the guy. He's just not a character I relate to well in the crew. I (along with MANY others on this very forum) have been disappointed with his lack of show in the New World. I have created lists detailing why, things he's done that are disappointing to me, and gone above and beyond to convey that. We are allowed to feel how we do about Sanji, and you're allowed to think he's the best thing since sliced bread.
You refuse to offer anything counter to what I say beyond (at your best) anecdotal evidence with zero reference, and at worst using your "vibe" from the anime as an argument. If you are happy with Sanji's performance then leave it at that. I don't get why you feel it's your duty to make everyone else on the forum your Sanji-fan-equal. If you want to defend him then stop getting so riled up at people who simply point out what actually happened in the manga. You know what I do when someone talks bad about a character that I like? I move onto the next post. It works wonders.
Also, I didn't bring Zoro into this, you did. I suspect if you want to find me bringing up Zoro on a whim you'd have to go back several pages, except I think the mods deleted that. So.. yeah.
I'd prefer to not bring Harvey Weinstein into the OP world. Sanji is more like the coworker women have to deal with who can't look them in the eyes, and only ever looks at their breasts, and makes inappropriate comments all the time and tests his boundaries.
It's weird to say he can't look them in the eyes after his scene with Pudding tbh.
Even more saying he's only interested in their bodies despite the fact that he has proven being really able to deeply understand women (again Pudding) and being mentioned as one of the people who are too nice and caring for his own good.
It's weird to say he can't look them in the eyes after his scene with Pudding tbh.
Even more saying he's only interested in their bodies despite the fact that he has proven being really able to deeply understand women (again Pudding) and being mentioned as one of the people who are too nice and caring for his own good.
So what you are saying is that Pudding is the only exception ? The only woman who is treated rightly by Sanji ?
Plus, objectifying a whole gender would mean he's considering women as object and not subjects right ? So there is no scene in One Piece where he treats a girl as an actual human being ?
Moreover, it's quite weird because Sanji seems to be a very perceptive guy, and as I say, the kind of guy who would know when he's hurting others (described as too nice to hurt feelings of his allies and even some of his opponents). Do you think this description is deceptive or that he know that he's harming women ?
I'd prefer to not bring Harvey Weinstein into the OP world. Sanji is more like the coworker women have to deal with who can't look them in the eyes, and only ever looks at their breasts, and makes inappropriate comments all the time and tests his boundaries.
Not to mention even Chopper "peeked" in Alabasta. He was both a child and another species.
You're like a bible quoter. Pull a single thing out, out of context. Zoro was bleeding to death and was saved by them. I don't get your weird insecurity in wanting to compare literally everything to Zoro. Is it because Zoro also surpasses Sanji in his ability to charm the opposite sex?
Not to mention Sanji in the same situation would have bled all over them out of his nose and it would have been super gross.
You calling me biased, or a troll, is pretty funny. You're the only one who's accused me of trolling on this forum. Me thinking that peeping on women, sniffing them, and being all around weird / creepy around them is despicable behavior, is not anti-Sanji bias. It's me expressing my thoughts about a character in his own thread. I have clearly stated my thoughts about Sanji, including that I don't hate the guy. He's just not a character I relate to well in the crew. I (along with MANY others on this very forum) have been disappointed with his lack of show in the New World. I have created lists detailing why, things he's done that are disappointing to me, and gone above and beyond to convey that. We are allowed to feel how we do about Sanji, and you're allowed to think he's the best thing since sliced bread.
You refuse to offer anything counter to what I say beyond (at your best) anecdotal evidence with zero reference, and at worst using your "vibe" from the anime as an argument. If you are happy with Sanji's performance then leave it at that. I don't get why you feel it's your duty to make everyone else on the forum your Sanji-fan-equal. If you want to defend him then stop getting so riled up at people who simply point out what actually happened in the manga. You know what I do when someone talks bad about a character that I like? I move onto the next post. It works wonders.
Also, I didn't bring Zoro into this, you did. I suspect if you want to find me bringing up Zoro on a whim you'd have to go back several pages, except I think the mods deleted that. So.. yeah.
Not really, Sanji shown been charmer of women, so he wouldn't think that when looking at women as times he shown more as romantic more than a pervert. Stop bringing your headcannon into this after we choose to move on.
Your only one with insecurity. I brought whole Strawhats as example, not just Zoro. Why you single out him each time when I bring in examples? You sound like your on an agenda on forcing something that isn't there especially you brought no proof about Sanji wanting to 'harm' a woman in anyway and forcing to say he go 'far' on doing something to them when we saw he won't do that. If your talking on objectifying, not really as he shown he seen women doing their own thing and doesn't try to stop them or say anything 'it's a man job' so your bringing into him seeing them less when it's actually Zoro who think more like that logic.
That won't stop people calling Chopper a pervert and creep even young given he can transform to the size of human adult or larger, that won't be simple seen if your forcing real life narrative.
In what way Zoro is a ladies men? As he shown not much on doing anything with them even with Hiyori as example? He mostly fear them which is worse given emotionally scaring a woman is shown more on sexist side than actually treating them equal like he did with Monet who he refuse to harm like a male enemy. Tashigi even called him out about him on his 'stance' in that fight and beat her like equal in fighting. Like your picking and choosing stuff to make Zoro look good when in case if your using real life logic, Zoro has his issues especially sexism over than compare to Sanji we seen who treat women equals in how they fight and can take care of themselves.
You are one if you keep bringing back subjects that are debunked and headcannon. Either get back on series point than bringing headcannon to force situaiton when in reality we could go on everyone on their cases for their 'traits' if you want be serious about this especially talking about attitudes on Nami and Robin since hope your not thinking they are 'fine' because they are women, when they have real life traits to go on.
Also from a guy who was getting harass and stuck on island for 2 years with those trying to change him when he wasn't interested and have to run away 24/7, it understandable him appreciate women more than ever, but doesn't mean he go on harming them like your forcing. His attraction of women doesn't mean he is objectifying them. I highly doubt on your words and your only one of the few who have issues on him while I talk to those who see issue is more on fighting than character themselves which I agree on that aspect and your list been debunked on my side. I am not taking your biased hate into account on that list.
There is a thing of having opinion and being biased troll. Just like that user who 'enjoys' Vergo and talking in another thread if you know who I mean. Just because you have like for character or not, doesn't mean your point is there. Thinking everyone have issues on Sanji is headcannon as they aren't shallow like you and few are if your not seeing the picture on situation and just looking only on 'bad points' which aren't that big your trying to make on.
Mine side come with facts, not trying to now force real life saying 'Oh Sanji will harm a woman even though he didn't harm enemy side' and making up headcannon to fit agenda when you know it isn't true.' There is difference of actual critic and hate, and you have hate on character if you refuse to move onto different subject and bringing back into this. We can't move onto talking something else if you making several posts on situation and now trying to move on yourself. It takes more than one person to move to different subject. Try educate yourself on that before you try to lecture someone.
Actually you did bring in Zoro as you brought him in during talk how they treat women. I am just saying on my side if you think Zoro is 'fine' then your truly on biased like those few here. You making into the situation from your talk, so if you don't want that then you have to fixed your own. Idk why your trying to force everyone to see your point as your not forcing everyone on subject your on especially again real life has nothing to do with gags when they aren't issue in OP to be taken seriously otherwise we be here all day on each point on different characters on their gags and 'real issues'.
Not saying you can't convey how you feel, but you have to be accurate, not on headcannon biased and to be taken seriously when your not even serious in talk your trying to critic Sanji on that isn't there. It's dumb this comes from scene of him not fighting women early and you stop this biased agenda thinking he hasn't done anything when he has. You got open your eyes on everything then picking and choosing on your side.
So what you are saying is that Pudding is the only exception ? The only woman who is treated rightly by Sanji ?
Plus, objectifying a whole gender would mean he's considering women as object and not subjects right ? So there is no scene in One Piece where he treats a girl as an actual human being ?
Moreover, it's quite weird because Sanji seems to be a very perceptive guy, and as I say, the kind of guy who would know when he's hurting others (described as too nice to hurt feelings of his allies and even some of his opponents). Do you think this description is deceptive or that he know that he's harming women ?
I like how he is ignoring Pudding scene and yet he think Sanji treat her like a 'object' when he never once did on Pudding. He actually treated her with respect and take care of herself. Heck even after temporary betrayal, he still treat her well given she suffers from issues stem from her childhood to how he is and it lead to Pudding respecting Sanji given point he was first to respect her. It's similar case to how he treats to Viola in Dressrosa, but somehow him showing to them means he is 'objectifying' when reality is it's not there. How he is pervert and actual objectifying isn't there and @catagon87 is not trying to see true narrative and forcing something not there.
This might seem a bit offtopic but there's a great manga that I'd like to recommend to you. It's called One Piece. You should read it someday, I think you'd love it.
Plus, objectifying a whole gender would mean he's considering women as object and not subjects right ? So there is no scene in One Piece where he treats a girl as an actual human being ?
Moreover, it's quite weird because Sanji seems to be a very perceptive guy, and as I say, the kind of guy who would know when he's hurting others (described as too nice to hurt feelings of his allies and even some of his opponents). Do you think this description is deceptive or that he know that he's harming women ?
A lot of people who objectify a whole group don't realize they're being harmful. As @Elessar said, a lot of people are unknowingly sexist, because they rationalize things internally. You seem to want to play the devil's advocate with straw-man arguments (a tactic leveraged often in politics, e.g "there was one cheater in the welfare system thus the whole thing is corrupt!!!", or "If we allow transgenders to use bathrooms, every little girl is going to be sexually assaulted!"). I'll just give you some data and you do what you will with it.
Sanji has shown that he:
Will not respect a woman's privacy (peeping in the bathhouse)
Will not respect a woman's personal space (sniffing Perona)
Fetishizes by species / race (mermaids)
Treats women vastly different than he treats men (won't defend himself against a woman, for example)
Conveyed that his second-biggest dream is to find and consume the Suke Suke no Mi, a dream motivated 100% by lust
These are just a few things that some of which, when transposed into reality, would land the perpetrator in prison as a sex criminal (I realize OP is not reality, and anime often considers these behaviors humorous).
That said; How Sanji treats an individual in light of his overall view of the female gender is irrelevant to my feelings about him. I don't care if some guy is a good husband / treats their few random female friends "right" when their general behavior towards woman are so abhorrent.
This might seem a bit offtopic but there's a great manga that I'd like to recommend to you. It's called One Piece. You should read it someday, I think you'd love it.
It is. You see Nami and Robin fighting their own enemies? It's amazing to see especially trust of the crew between one another to trust handling themselves in a fight. Don't you agree unless you don't think they can and actual seem a bit 'sexist' to not think they can't fight for themselves.
A lot of people who objectify a whole group don't realize they're being harmful. As @Elessar said, a lot of people are unknowingly sexist, because they rationalize things internally. You seem to want to play the devil's advocate with straw-man arguments (a tactic leveraged often in politics, e.g "there was one cheater in the welfare system thus the whole thing is corrupt!!!", or "If we allow transgenders to use bathrooms, every little girl is going to be sexually assaulted!"). I'll just give you some data and you do what you will with it.
Sanji has shown that he:
Will not respect a woman's privacy (peeping in the bathhouse)
Will not respect a woman's personal space (sniffing Perona)
Fetishizes by species / race (mermaids)
Treats women vastly different than he treats men (won't defend himself against a woman, for example)
Conveyed that his second-biggest dream is to find and consume the Suke Suke no Mi, a dream motivated 100% by lust
These are just a few things that some of which, when transposed into reality, would land the perpetrator in prison as a sex criminal (I realize OP is not reality, and anime often considers these behaviors humorous).
That said; How Sanji treats an individual in light of his overall view of the female gender is irrelevant to my feelings about him. I don't care if some guy is a good husband / treats their few random female friends "right" when their general behavior towards woman are so abhorrent.
Objectifying is the fact he doesn't seem them as equal and think they are 'object' not take their feelings or anything in account when Sanji has shown he put women more over male side, so your definition on that is more force by you then not really there.
Like I said being a pervert and actual 'objectifying isn't one and the same as pervert especially we seen he doesn't harm women and actually put them first than put them last like example with Zoro who don't harm them and rather fear them. Also few your points...You do realize he did that given he spent 2 years on a island without female and being chase 24/7 and Perona was first woman he scene since that experience. Make sense on that and he didn't sniff anyone else since. Doesn't make sense there and not getting on 'Fetishizes'. You mean him dreaming about women? That hardly on field on objecting for attraction to them and think your stretching there. I already debated this point here.
Not really on those stances I counter and debated as he still won't physical harm them and again your ignoring reality on characters than just Sanji on who do more actions than him on actually on women being like Zoro, Franky, Brook, etc.. Also forgetting about Usopp's tendecies especially not doing anythign at first when Nami got assaulted by Abasolm and instead take in sight of her body and Chopper too even if he wasn't interested. Whether they knew situation or not, still doesn't make that look good on their side on not reacting fast.
It is. You see Nami and Robin fighting their own enemies? It's amazing to see especially trust of the crew between one another to trust handling themselves in a fight. Don't you agree unless you don't think they can and actual seem a bit 'sexist' to not think they can't fight for themselves.
Oh, yes, Sanji "allowed the woman (who was already there to begin with yet somehow needed his permission?) to fight". The scene in which he trusted Robin was "cool" and all but it doesn't deny everything else about his character. His sexism was deeply showcased during the Black Maria "fight", once again, for the nth time this manga.
Do you want to ignore everything bad about Sanji because "he trusted his female crewmate to fight another female"? Cool, but all this "never harm a woman under any circumstance, no matter how extreme," is objectively sexist and actually patronizing to women.
Oh, yes, Sanji "allowed the woman (who was already there to begin with yet somehow needed his permission?) to fight". The scene in which he trusted Robin was "cool" and all but it doesn't deny everything else about his character. His sexism was deeply showcased during the Black Maria "fight", once again, for the nth time this manga.
Do you want to ignore everything bad about Sanji because "he trusted his female crewmate to fight another female"? Cool, but all this "never harm a woman under any circumstance, no matter how extreme," is objectively sexist and actually patronizing to women.
Nah, sexism would be he can't let them fight at all and have to be on their side constantly, but your showing they are equals if you let them fight their own battles.
Your ignoring true on his character especially development of Sanji who on debut would be on more protect them, but allow them to fight them. Also irony in talk you guys foricng he will do harm to a female when in reality he will not. So your kinda hurting your point point to call it 'sexist' if he seen women to not harm them and be gentleman even to the enemies. Your making subject confusing here more and more. Not saying Sanji doesn't have flaws, but stating he will 'objectify' a woman doesn't fit on being a pervert as shown in different situations on matter.
Not really, Sanji shown been charmer of women, so he wouldn't think that when looking at women as times he shown more as romantic more than a pervert. Stop bringing your headcannon into this after we choose to move on.
Your only one with insecurity. I brought whole Strawhats as example, not just Zoro. Why you single out him each time when I bring in examples? You sound like your on an agenda on forcing something that isn't there especially you brought no proof about Sanji wanting to 'harm' a woman in anyway and forcing to say he go 'far' on doing something to them when we saw he won't do that. If your talking on objectifying, not really as he shown he seen women doing their own thing and doesn't try to stop them or say anything 'it's a man job' so your bringing into him seeing them less when it's actually Zoro who think more like that logic.
That won't stop people calling Chopper a pervert and creep even young given he can transform to the size of human adult or larger, that won't be simple seen if your forcing real life narrative.
In what way Zoro is a ladies men? As he shown not much on doing anything with them even with Hiyori as example? He mostly fear them which is worse given emotionally scaring a woman is shown more on sexist side than actually treating them equal like he did with Monet who he refuse to harm like a male enemy. Tashigi even called him out about him on his 'stance' in that fight and beat her like equal in fighting. Like your picking and choosing stuff to make Zoro look good when in case if your using real life logic, Zoro has his issues especially sexism over than compare to Sanji we seen who treat women equals in how they fight and can take care of themselves.
You are one if you keep bringing back subjects that are debunked and headcannon. Either get back on series point than bringing headcannon to force situaiton when in reality we could go on everyone on their cases for their 'traits' if you want be serious about this especially talking about attitudes on Nami and Robin since hope your not thinking they are 'fine' because they are women, when they have real life traits to go on.
Also from a guy who was getting harass and stuck on island for 2 years with those trying to change him when he wasn't interested and have to run away 24/7, it understandable him appreciate women more than ever, but doesn't mean he go on harming them like your forcing. His attraction of women doesn't mean he is objectifying them. I highly doubt on your words and your only one of the few who have issues on him while I talk to those who see issue is more on fighting than character themselves which I agree on that aspect and your list been debunked on my side. I am not taking your biased hate into account on that list.
There is a thing of having opinion and being biased troll. Just like that user who 'enjoys' Vergo and talking in another thread if you know who I mean. Just because you have like for character or not, doesn't mean your point is there. Thinking everyone have issues on Sanji is headcannon as they aren't shallow like you and few are if your not seeing the picture on situation and just looking only on 'bad points' which aren't that big your trying to make on.
Mine side come with facts, not trying to now force real life saying 'Oh Sanji will harm a woman even though he didn't harm enemy side' and making up headcannon to fit agenda when you know it isn't true.' There is difference of actual critic and hate, and you have hate on character if you refuse to move onto different subject and bringing back into this. We can't move onto talking something else if you making several posts on situation and now trying to move on yourself. It takes more than one person to move to different subject. Try educate yourself on that before you try to lecture someone.
Actually you did bring in Zoro as you brought him in during talk how they treat women. I am just saying on my side if you think Zoro is 'fine' then your truly on biased like those few here. You making into the situation from your talk, so if you don't want that then you have to fixed your own. Idk why your trying to force everyone to see your point as your not forcing everyone on subject your on especially again real life has nothing to do with gags when they aren't issue in OP to be taken seriously otherwise we be here all day on each point on different characters on their gags and 'real issues'.
Not saying you can't convey how you feel, but you have to be accurate, not on headcannon biased and to be taken seriously when your not even serious in talk your trying to critic Sanji on that isn't there. It's dumb this comes from scene of him not fighting women early and you stop this biased agenda thinking he hasn't done anything when he has. You got open your eyes on everything then picking and choosing on your side.
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I like how he is ignoring Pudding scene and yet he think Sanji treat her like a 'object' when he never once did on Pudding. He actually treated her with respect and take care of herself. Heck even after temporary betrayal, he still treat her well given she suffers from issues stem from her childhood to how he is and it lead to Pudding respecting Sanji given point he was first to respect her. It's similar case to how he treats to Viola in Dressrosa, but somehow him showing to them means he is 'objectifying' when reality is it's not there. How he is pervert and actual objectifying isn't there and @catagon87 is not trying to see true narrative and forcing something not there.
So I thought about how much you project; Calling other people trolls, biased, and "headcanon". I had this excellent idea of throwing your past 2-3 pages worth of text into a word-cloud generator. You know, since I'm the one who's obsessed and biased.
Here's the result in case you're interested. Note: I generated this using only your posts as text input.
Isn't it cute how Zoro is right there in the middle? You aren't fooling anyone @King Moe. You've got the world's biggest hard-on for hating Zoro and loving Sanji. Let's not turn you-problems into us-problems.
The problem with Sanji's moral code is that it was pretty standard chivalry (but to the extreme) in the 90s, back when this manga was starting. Even I found Sanji's code to be very cool and the first person to point out to me how that was actually sexist back then was my mother. I hadn't even realized it until then (I was a kid, and it was a different society).
Now, I still believe Sanji is pretty cool, and I take into account where he comes from as a character, but being objective about him, his character is based entirely around a sexist attitude. Does this mean he will physically assault a woman or that he's a bad guy? Not necessarily, though he is a big, creepy voyeur, he's still a nice guy deep down, and the kind of sexist that thinks women should be protected at all costs. Sexist and discriminatory, but not at all evil. I also don't believe he would sexually assault a woman even though peeping is already pretty disgusting IRL.
I don't personally have an issue with his moral code since I'm more than used to it, but unlike when I was a kid, I don't admire that part of him anymore and I do believe it's somewhat problematic. I simply accept him as he is.
As a fighter and as a comic relief I still love the character, though.
That's exactly what's sexist about the character. If you believe it's what excuses him from being sexist, then I'm afraid the problem is with your comprehension of what sexism is or is not. Either way, I have already said everything I had to say on this topic on my previous post.
The problem with Sanji's moral code is that it was pretty standard chivalry (but to the extreme) in the 90s, back when this manga was starting. Even I found Sanji's code to be very cool and the first person to point out to me how that was actually sexist back then was my mother. I hadn't even realized it until then (I was a kid, and it was a different society).
Now, I still believe Sanji is pretty cool, and I take into account where he comes from as a character, but being objective about him, his character is based entirely around a sexist attitude. Does this mean he will physically assault a woman or that he's a bad guy? Not necessarily, though he is a big, creepy voyeur, he's still a nice guy deep down, and the kind of sexist that thinks women should be protected at all costs. Sexist and discriminatory, but not at all evil. I also don't believe he would sexually assault a woman even though peeping is already pretty disgusting IRL.
I don't personally have an issue with his moral code since I'm more than used to it, but unlike when I was a kid, I don't admire that part of him anymore and I do believe it's somewhat problematic. I simply accept him as he is.
As a fighter and as a comic relief I still love the character, though.
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That's exactly what's sexist about the character. If you believe it's what excuses him from being sexist, then I'm afraid the problem is with your comprehension of what sexism is or is not. Either way, I have already said everything I had to say on this topic on my previous post.
I mean again being pervert and actual trying to 'objectify' or 'assault' a woman still big difference your forcing something there. Also again we can talk all day on traits on everyone who have issues around here. I wouldn't called him sexist or at least not much anymore if how he shown seeing Nami and Robin how they are and they don't deem him to be guy sexist from how they talk on him, just a pervert. Sexist is like Kinemon when they first met him or Zoro.
Again your going be here all day if we go about those who are 'perverts' in the series even ones who don't pervert as much do action as peeping on women. Everyone will have bad traits if we going on real life perspective. Though I do understand what you mean how our minds change as we got older and perspective on things now, but the attention was never to force him on level you and catagon are stating him to be on.
Also everyone is kinda gag to them, so not really comic relief, but having fun moment on certain times with it like everyone else.
I mean again being pervert and actual trying to 'objectify' or 'assault' a woman still big difference your forcing something there. Also again we can talk all day on traits on everyone who have issues around here. I wouldn't called him sexist or at least not much anymore if how he shown seeing Nami and Robin how they are and they don't deem him to be guy sexist from how they talk on him, just a pervert. Sexist is like Kinemon when they first met him or Zoro.
So I thought about how much you project; Calling other people trolls, biased, and "headcanon". I had this excellent idea of throwing your past 2-3 pages worth of text into a word-cloud generator. You know, since I'm the one who's obsessed and biased.
Here's the result in case you're interested. Note: I generated this using only your posts as text input.
Isn't it cute how Zoro is right there in the middle? You aren't fooling anyone @King Moe. You've got the world's biggest hard-on for hating Zoro and loving Sanji. Let's not turn you-problems into us-problems.
What a conversation...for someone not trying to counter any of my claims and go about insulting and making fun of a post. Classic Troll 101. If your not going to be serious, then mind we move to talking something else or is your biased for Sanji so strong your talking on him on every format even bringing real life?
Also your picture not proving counter, so going on taking you have nothing to work on here.
You bring in Zoro first place, so again just adding him into conversatio since we now talking about traits of Strawhats and how we have to discuss 'real life' in a series when you can heal yourself with 'milk'. Truly classic on how far you want to push this. No hating or biased here, just stating what your stating on you.
Irony is his charm got helpful side of Viola and Pudding though who were important in their respective arc, so can't say his character doesn't help with women when it actually does shown with Oda.
Not really, but point you two are making kinda hurt your own point when countering your own. Nah let's stay on topic here given you two wanted make case despite refusing to move on, so guess we back on this subject, but be prepare to talk on different characters on their situation though.
A lot of people who objectify a whole group don't realize they're being harmful. As @Elessar said, a lot of people are unknowingly sexist, because they rationalize things internally. You seem to want to play the devil's advocate with straw-man arguments (a tactic leveraged often in politics, e.g "there was one cheater in the welfare system thus the whole thing is corrupt!!!", or "If we allow transgenders to use bathrooms, every little girl is going to be sexually assaulted!"). I'll just give you some data and you do what you will with it.
Sanji has shown that he:
Will not respect a woman's privacy (peeping in the bathhouse)
Will not respect a woman's personal space (sniffing Perona)
Fetishizes by species / race (mermaids)
Treats women vastly different than he treats men (won't defend himself against a woman, for example)
Conveyed that his second-biggest dream is to find and consume the Suke Suke no Mi, a dream motivated 100% by lust
These are just a few things that some of which, when transposed into reality, would land the perpetrator in prison as a sex criminal (I realize OP is not reality, and anime often considers these behaviors humorous).
That said; How Sanji treats an individual in light of his overall view of the female gender is irrelevant to my feelings about him. I don't care if some guy is a good husband / treats their few random female friends "right" when their general behavior towards woman are so abhorrent.
OK, I don't want to be rude in any way (and you are more or less agreeing with me to a certain point according to this message) and I don't know if it's really systematic with people coming the U.S but...
I wanted to come to the point where you were realizing that you were imposing your values and your vision of the world to a world which is not ours, with its own code. It's kind of imperialistic in a way. You are defining sexism without and talking about objectification to a world which seems to be very close to ours but which is fundamentally different.
You are classing the behavior of Sanji as sexism without knowing his actual internal thoughts, taking into account the sociological environment or the diegese of OP.
It's not really wrong, I mean according to your definition, all the cases are checked and it could be accurately considered as sexism according to the elements constructed in our world.
However, I don't know if it's really pertinent, fair and totally accurate to impose this vision to another world without taking the fact that it is not built like our.
. In our world, peeping women can be seen as an objectified act, sure. It can harm them because it can be a real intrusion to their intimacy and serious issues could happen following that. Is it the case in OP ? Is peeping in One Piece actually the same thing than peeping in the real world, will it have the same impact ?
. Is it the same for all the following thing ?
We are appreciating this action through our extra-diegetic point of view and assuming that it's working the same, with the same values, the same social constructions, the same reactional behaviours.
You are transposing things into reality without transposing the intra-diegetic rules
My following question was something like : How can somebody which is supposedly more or less one of the nicest person in the series, very perceptive and knowingly smart could not get that he's systematically hurting the thing he loves the most in the world ? I got two answers but maybe you got a third. Mine are:
- He's not that perceptive (it's weird for me because he has been showed multiple time as not.)
- He's not (but it's also weird because real world studies showed that harassing could really hurt women. And he did that an incalculable number of time. He's either really lucky or something is off with our reasoning).
(Sorry for "imperialistic" but I don't know any other terms less agressive designating this type of behaviour)
To be honest, I don't genuinely know the answer of my little tirade. You seems to have yours but I'm not quite convinced by your arguments.
(actually I also think I'm slowly taking this tread in my off-topic reflexion. I don't know if I should keep talking on this matter)
