Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[M3J]

Is that how you see it? That's interesting. I never saw it from that angle @M3J

This is how I took it.

Katakuri HAD to be defeated if they had any chance to escape BM's territory. He was far more dangerous than an emaciated Big Mom because he would have foreseen every attempt to evade the full forces of Big Mom.

This option presented itself... Luffy could have thrown Katakuri in the Mirror world and just knocked out Brulee to ensure Katakuri was trapped.

Now here's the problem with that, what if at any time Brulee woke up and faked still being passed out? Katakuri could have found a way to escape through another mirror? Nothing guaranteed Luffy would have had enough focus to KEEP Brulee passed with trying to stop Big Mom from attacking them and they were being chased for HOURS. Brulee could have woken up at any time.

No, I'm sure Katakuri had to be stopped before they could escape.

Just imagine a crazed Big Mom chasing them with a future seeing Sweet Commander walking beside her... Chances of escape 0%

That why the story had to go that way.

Excuse my off topic-ness, I just thought your thought process was interesting.

Luffy did the right thing in taking Katakuri to the Mirror World, otherwise they would not have been able to escape. Problem is, he didn't need to beat Katakuri, just keep him trapped there long enough that he couldn't stop the Straw Hats from escaping. as you mentioned, keep Katakuri in the Mirror World If not throw him and take out Brulee and tie her up. She couldn't do anything while bound, all she could do was whine. Luffy and others could have made sure Brulee stayed bound and even if they couldn't, break all the mirrors on the ship.

The story had no reason to go towards Luffy beating Katakuri. As you said, keep Katakuri out of the way. Plus, it's not like Brulee was able to do anything while she was Chopper's prisoner and then Luffy's. Remember when Luffy got out of the Mirror World while fighting Katakuri? he had Brulee bound, and neither she nor Katakuri could do anything. He could have outran the enemies or gone back into the Mirror World and outrun Katakuri to find the Straw Hats.

Ultimately, point is that it's bullshit to blame Sanji. Luffy even knows how Sanji is like, when Sanji said he couldn't let his siblings and dad die so he couldn't go back with the Straw Hats yet.

HELLO all those events are his fault, if he trusted more and believed in his crew none of that would have happened!!!

Nope. If you read the manga, you'll see that had Big Mom would have wrecked Luffy and the others if she decided to join, on top of taking out the Baratie. I don't know about you, but I"m pretty sure the crew did not have an ability that could teleport them instantly to the Baratie restaraunt.

Bege should have poisoned it without telling Sanji this way:

• respects sanji's character, he would never kill someone who starves evenless so with food
• respect Bege's character cunning and ready to use all means possible to achieve his goals
• Kills or at leasts incapacitates Big mom for way longer than the taste alone = Jimbe, Alladin and germa able to get away from whole cake

Exactly, so technically it's Bege's fault, not Sanji's. He had faith in Sanji, which was justified as Big Mom was out long enough to stay out of the Straw Hats' way.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Bege should have poisoned it without telling Sanji this way:

• respects sanji's character, he would never kill someone who starves evenless so with food
• respect Bege's character cunning and ready to use all means possible to achieve his goals
• Kills or at leasts incapacitates Big mom for way longer than the taste alone = Jimbe, Alladin and germa able to get away from whole cake

Yes. It was well within Bege's character to poison the cake, but not Sanji's

There was 0 reason for bege to respect Sanji's wishes and not

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2018 ---

since sanji doesn't use his black pants or black shoes in Wano, it seemed like this would be a good chance to see if sanji also can use hardened haki

my biggest gripe with "Black Leg" Sanji in the entire manga.

More with Oda than Sanji.


How does he not have hardening and if he does than Oda needs to clarify

 

[Shasha23]

Nope. If you read the manga, you'll see that had Big Mom would have wrecked Luffy and the others if she decided to join, on top of taking out the Baratie. I don't know about you, but I"m pretty sure the crew did not have an ability that could teleport them instantly to the Baratie restaraunt.

Nope if you didn't just read but actually understood you would see how foolish you sound, so Linlin would reck Luffy as bad as she did when he stormed into her island and defeated her 2 top commanders LOL ok, why would Luffy let Linlin threaten people Sanji cared about without him doing anything to stop it, dont you know what type of guy Luffy is?
Why would they go to Baraties and not to Linlin herself?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Nope if you didn't just read but actually understood you would see how foolish you sound, so Linlin would reck Luffy as bad as she did when he stormed into her island and defeated her 2 top commanders LOL ok, why would Luffy let Linlin threaten people Sanji cared about without him doing anything to stop it, dont you know what type of guy Luffy is?
Why would they go to Baraties and not to Linlin herself?

What manga are your reading where you think Luffy can storm WCI and Attack Big Mom directly without any of her Commanders or thousands of troops interfering?


At this point your trolling

 

[M3J]

no point in trying to discuss anything with him, you're better off saving your energy looking at Franky's ******.

In any case, Sanji was one of the MVPs of the arc. Jinbei saved Luffy and Nami, Brook got the Poneglyph rubbing, and Sanji saved the crew. Luffy also helped the crew escape by getting Katakuri out of the way, but he wasn't an MVP.

 

[afromarco005]

Probably would have ruined that cakes taste and made big mom angrier than before leading to a major disaster.

Many poisons are tasteless

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2018 ---

no point in trying to discuss anything with him, you're better off saving your energy looking at Franky's ******.

In any case, Sanji was one of the MVPs of the arc. Jinbei saved Luffy and Nami, Brook got the Poneglyph rubbing, and Sanji saved the crew. Luffy also helped the crew escape by getting Katakuri out of the way, but he wasn't an MVP.

Imo Brooke was the MVP

• soloed big mom soul soldiers
• stole ponegliph like a boss
• fought and injured big mom homies
• slept with yonko big mom
• smashed mother carmel portrait
• saved carrot after su long
• didn't get to see nami's panties but deserved it

 

[M3J]

Many poisons are tasteless

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2018 ---

Imo Brooke was the MVP

• soloed big mom soul soldiers
• stole ponegliph like a boss
• fought and injured big mom homies
• slept with yonko big mom
• smashed mother carmel portrait
• saved carrot after su long
• didn't get to see nami's panties but deserved it

He was the top MVP, but he wasn't the only MVP of the arc.

 

[Takuan]

Sanji wasn't one of the MVPs. All he did was bake a cake, and yes it stopped Big Mom, but i mean... Sanji has been a god at cooking since the very beginning. Feeding and pleasing Big Mom with his cooking is nothing particularly impressive from him, this was expected. Like, if he couldn't even do it, it would have been extremely disappointing. Him not being disappointing isn't what i would call impressive.

 

[afromarco005]

Adding a component with no taste to a mixture of components with taste changes the palet of the mixture.

no offense but you dont seem very knowlegable about chemistry

 

[hokageji]

While I am disappointed Oda didnt give Sanji enough screen time, the cake was the main incident of WCI. It not only saved the strawhats, it also saved the entire archipelago of totoland. Imagine Big Mama in her hunger pangs otherwise, she'd have destroyed everything with noone able to stop her.

If you like Zoro, why do you have to hate Sanji? He is such a cool character to being with. Oda will always keep Zoro stronger than Sanji, although i am sure he will maintain the narrative that the gap is extremely small.

 

[M3J]

Sanji wasn't one of the MVPs. All he did was bake a cake, and yes it stopped Big Mom, but i mean... Sanji has been a god at cooking since the very beginning. Feeding and pleasing Big Mom with his cooking is nothing particularly impressive from him, this was expected. Like, if he couldn't even do it, it would have been extremely disappointing. Him not being disappointing isn't what i would call impressive.

Yes he was. HIs cake saved the crew that would have otherwise either been killed or lost their ship. He chose to make a cake, and he made a cake that distracted and calmed down even Big Mom, who was said to never give up he rampage until she got what she wanted.

He didn't even have to bake a cake.

 

[Takuan]

Yes he was. HIs cake saved the crew that would have otherwise either been killed or lost their ship. He chose to make a cake, and he made a cake that distracted and calmed down even Big Mom, who was said to never give up he rampage until she got what she wanted.

He didn't even have to bake a cake.

Calming "even Big Mom" isn't a feat though. It's not like she needs to eat something absolutely amazing in order to calm down, she needed a wedding cake. Sanji was able to guess all the ingredients from the wedding cake (impressive sure) and with a short amount of time and short amount of manpower, he was able to bake a cake, even more delicious than the original wedding cake. Yes, it is impressive in terms of cooking skills, but that was nothing unusual coming from Sanji, he's been a top tier chief from the very beginning. It has nothing to do with Big Mom being a Yonko so "he stopped a Yonko damn how impressive". All he had to do was bake a great cake, which again is nothing impressive at all...

I should have worded my sentence differently i guess, should have been "i don't think Sanji was an MVP". I don't think my word is absolute, and i only gave my view on the matter. Feel free to think Sanji was MVP because he baked a cake; to me this cake had an impact on the plot but wasn't anything impressive all things considered. So not enough to make Sanji an MVP. Just a matter of opinion.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

What things are deemed impressive that does not include violence ?

Shanks stopping the war with words

 

[Takuan]

That were backed with promise of violence and words itself were used to threaten with violence. So that differs from the question as it includes or resolves around violence.

This forum makes me think violence is the reason why people like this manga and that people are using it to channel their innermost violent impulses.

This manga is violent in itself, there wasn't a single arc where we didn't get some kind of fight.
Woro gave you Shanks' example during Marineford, when Marineford was an arc entirely based of fights. Shanks promised violence, but that scene was one of the least violent in the whole arc. Yes violence and fights in general are omnipresent in this manga, but that doesn't mean a character can't be impressive without using violence.

 

[M3J]

Calming "even Big Mom" isn't a feat though. It's not like she needs to eat something absolutely amazing in order to calm down, she needed a wedding cake. Sanji was able to guess all the ingredients from the wedding cake (impressive sure) and with a short amount of time and short amount of manpower, he was able to bake a cake, even more delicious than the original wedding cake. Yes, it is impressive in terms of cooking skills, but that was nothing unusual coming from Sanji, he's been a top tier chief from the very beginning. It has nothing to do with Big Mom being a Yonko so "he stopped a Yonko damn how impressive". All he had to do was bake a great cake, which again is nothing impressive at all...

I should have worded my sentence differently i guess, should have been "i don't think Sanji was an MVP". I don't think my word is absolute, and i only gave my view on the matter. Feel free to think Sanji was MVP because he baked a cake; to me this cake had an impact on the plot but wasn't anything impressive all things considered. So not enough to make Sanji an MVP. Just a matter of opinion.

It is if she's said to stop her rampage only if she gets what she's been craving for, and the cake's smell from a distance away was enough to lure her away. The wedding cake had to be amazing enough to keep her down long enough, and it did that. Sanji managed to stop someone who loves food, and that in itself is impressive. If it was Luffy, then it'd be nothing as he gets appeased by food, but Big Mom was literally introduced as someone who wouldn't stop rampaging until she got what she wanted.

This is a forum, we're supposed to share views and opinions and debate on it. If you can't handle the tone, then I would suggest not responding to people.

That were backed with promise of violence and words itself were used to threaten with violence. So that differs from the question as it includes or resolves around violence.

This forum makes me think violence is the reason why people like this manga and that people are using it to channel their innermost violent impulses.

what

 

[Takuan]

It is if she's said to stop her rampage only if she gets what she's been craving for, and the cake's smell from a distance away was enough to lure her away. The wedding cake had to be amazing enough to keep her down long enough, and it did that. Sanji managed to stop someone who loves food, and that in itself is impressive. If it was Luffy, then it'd be nothing as he gets appeased by food, but Big Mom was literally introduced as someone who wouldn't stop rampaging until she got what she wanted.

Exactly, and she stopped because she got what she wanted: a wedding cake. Sanji was able to bake as amazing a cake as the Big Mom's chiefs were able to bake, which is impressive. I've said all of this, so i don't disagree. But i'm just not as amazed as you are, since Sanji's cooking skills have been proven time and time again and baking a wedding cake is nothing special at this point.

This is a forum, we're supposed to share views and opinions and debate on it. If you can't handle the tone, then I would suggest not responding to people.

Uh? What's that all about? I've been sharing my view and opinion, and never disrespected your opinion. I don't know where this agressiveness is coming from. I don't even get the "handle the tone", where is that coming from. We basically have different opinions on the matter, if i can't have a different opinion than yours without you saying such sentences, then you're probably the one who should stop responding.
Heck, i even corrected myself and said that it was only my opinion and that i didnt think my word was absolute. That's all i've been giving, my opinion. Like, what the fuck dude.

Basically what i'm saying is this: yes, Sanji baked an amazing cake. It saved the crew. It was impressive, and i agree with what you said.
But that alone doesn't make him an MVP in my eyes. If it was, then i could also consider Bege an MVP, because he was the only one able to tank several hits from bloodlusted Big Mom and that castle form also saved everyone. I could consider Nami an MVP for making the homies her slaves and getting her hands on Zeus, which takes away a good amount of Big Mom's firepower forever (we'll see about the forever later though). I could consider a lot of characters MVPs because they all had shining moments. Sanji was able to shine with the cake, but that alone wasn't enough to make him one of the MVPs of the arc IN MY EYES.

 

[King Moe]

Oda mention more on SBS how important the cake is as it really saved everyone lives. He is MVP whether others agree or not especially if Oda goes the trouble to talk about it more in SBS than anyone else did in WCI. Just saying the importance of it as few dismissed it as "unmanly" despite Sanji always been a cook in beginning and fighter as well. His training shown it more on both categories.

Plus we others need to take in account the arc was meant to be like Impel Down situation where your retrieving someone and something, but the purpose is not to dominate everyone as shown Oda put out how using physical stuff is ineffective with Big Mom right now and the cake especially her food cravings are the best way to keep her at bay.

I think others rely too much on fighting as sole solution when their other manners you can deal a situation than just fighting just because the series has fighting in it. Just way about the situation and what it meant on Oda writing it like that to express more his character well rounded.

 

[Takuan]

Oda mention more on SBS how important the cake is as it really saved everyone lives. He is MVP whether others agree or not especially if Oda goes the trouble to talk about it more in SBS than anyone else did in WCI. Just saying the importance of it as few dismissed it as "unmanly" despite Sanji always been a cook in beginning and fighter as well. His training shown it more on both categories.

Plus we others need to take in account the arc was meant to be like Impel Down situation where your retrieving someone and something, but the purpose is not to dominate everyone as shown Oda put out how using physical stuff is ineffective with Big Mom right now and the cake especially her food cravings are the best way to keep her at bay.

I think others rely too much on fighting as sole solution when their other manners you can deal a situation than just fighting just because the series has fighting in it. Just way about the situation and what it meant on Oda writing it like that to express more his character well rounded.

Which SBS? I haven't seen it.

But yes, of course the cake was important, i never pretended otherwise. Just like Luffy beating two commanders was important. Just like Brook stealing the poneglysh was important. Just like Pedro sacrificing to save everyone was important.
Just like the Vinsmoke's help and sacrifice to save Sanji and Luffy was important, just like the Fishman Pirates' rescue operation was important.
Or Bege's castle, anyway you get my drift. A lot of things were important and invaluable for the saving of everybody. Sanji's cake was one of these very important elements of the arc, for sure.
Just a side question, if Sanji hadn't been involved in the making of the cake, if, say, Chiffon was the one baking it with the ther chief's help, would you say Chiffon was MVP of the arc?

 

[King Moe]

Which SBS? I haven't seen it.

But yes, of course the cake was important, i never pretended otherwise. Just like Luffy beating two commanders was important. Just like Brook stealing the poneglysh was important. Just like Pedro sacrificing to save everyone was important.
Just like the Vinsmoke's help and sacrifice to save Sanji and Luffy was important, just like the Fishman Pirates' rescue operation was important.
Or Bege's castle, anyway you get my drift. A lot of things were important and invaluable for the saving of everybody. Sanji's cake was one of these very important elements of the arc, for sure.
Just a side question, if Sanji hadn't been involved in the making of the cake, if, say, Chiffon was the one baking it with the ther chief's help, would you say Chiffon was MVP of the arc?

It was SBS Volume 90. One of the questions ask what would happen if Big Mom is get hunger pangs and cravings for wedding cake again since Sanji was the only one to make it and knowledge of it like. Check it out to see it.

We not saying those aren't important but the person who made something to save many lives kinda deserve MVP spot for that whether you like or dislike it.

As for the question, impossible as they would have no knowledge of what its like and design as with the right ingredients. Sanji was the one to give blueprints about it due to a keen sense of smell than average human (Feat that is also overlook).

They didn't have anyone like that by their panicking. So again if Sanji wasn't there, everyone would perish even if they try replicating it, it won't be exactly the same by smell and taste.

 

[M3J]

Exactly, and she stopped because she got what she wanted: a wedding cake. Sanji was able to bake as amazing a cake as the Big Mom's chiefs were able to bake, which is impressive. I've said all of this, so i don't disagree. But i'm just not as amazed as you are, since Sanji's cooking skills have been proven time and time again and baking a wedding cake is nothing special at this point.

You may be right but again, he still saved the lives of his crew and the ship. That makes him one of the MVPs, especially since he was the only one to succeed in driving Big Mom away. He, Jinbei, and Brook each played a key role in the Straw Hats' success.

Uh? What's that all about? I've been sharing my view and opinion, and never disrespected your opinion. I don't know where this agressiveness is coming from. I don't even get the "handle the tone", where is that coming from. We basically have different opinions on the matter, if i can't have a different opinion than yours without you saying such sentences, then you're probably the one who should stop responding.
Heck, i even corrected myself and said that it was only my opinion and that i didnt think my word was absolute. That's all i've been giving, my opinion. Like, what the fuck dude.

Basically because, "no shit it's your opinion, no need to say it's our opinions/views." That's obvious.