Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[nik87]

@Eiyuu Yami
Hell Memories(took me a while to find out what HM is) was cool but the opponent was just a giant ballon waiting to be served aka fodder.
He did best Vergo in speed and landed more kicks on him but all had 0 effect on Vergo.
Law was nerfed since Vergo had his heart.
Well, from what i remember Luffy's G2 did more damage to Doffy than Sanji's DJ which didnt leave even a scratch.
Some headliners are simply fodder, its not an accomplishment.
I think Sanji is far stronger than Judge but he gave up in their fight since he despised what Judge did in final attack. Judge never fought Snack, Anime is not real representation of what happened in Manga.
He didnt handle Daifuku, he clashed with him twice. First time on wedding and got sent flying into the ground and second time when Daifuku was attacking carrot he stopped his attack.
He never fought Over, except hitting him while he was fighting Pound. Anime portrayed Sanji in far better light than he was in Manga.
All accomplishments of Sanji is attacking someone who is not looking and who was busy with another opponent - Oven fought Pound, Raisin fought Luffy, Sheepshead fought Brook.

I think Franky's, Chopper's, Nami's, Jinbe's ultimate attacks pack more destruction than what Sanji has to offer so far. Only inferior could be Robin, Brook and Usopp but if they fought against Sanji I would bet my money on Robin and Brook.

I hope raid suit is amazing to cement his spot among top combatants of the crew.

 

[M3J]

Law was nerfed since Vergo had his heart.

Sanji was also nerfed because his body got battered and bruised from when Nami was using it. Doflamingo was the only fight we've seen where Sanji definitely would have lost, but again so would have most characters if they were bound like that. Luffy had the benefit of expanding his body with haki to escape.

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

Hell Memories(took me a while to find out what HM is) was cool but the opponent was just a giant ballon waiting to be served aka fodder.

It's not about Wada, it's about the DC HM can pull. Wada was hillsize+ and HM covered and roasted him in mere moments.

It is also about portrayal. Sanji's HM was used as finisher and not Jinbei's Secret Technique.

He did best Vergo in speed and landed more kicks on him but all had 0 effect on Vergo.

Read it again. He made Vergo bleed.

Law was nerfed since Vergo had his heart.

Even if Vergo das his heart it doesn't change the fact that he was too slow to react/dodge.

Spoiler

Sanji objectively showed better speed and both were in a similar condition.

Well, from what i remember Luffy's G2 did more damage to Doffy than Sanji's DJ which didnt leave even a scratch.

Read it again. DD laughed off his G2 attacks bar the one Red Hawk.

Some headliners are simply fodder, its not an accomplishment.

Ofc, some are fodder but wasn't Brook unable to finish of this Headliner that Sanji one shotted? The portrayal is clear again. Sanji could easily beat a headliner, brook can't.

I think Sanji is far stronger than Judge but he gave up in their fight since he despised what Judge did in final attack. Judge never fought Snack, Anime is not real representation of what happened in Manga.

Sanji is by no means far stronger than Judge.

-They both clased equally in CqC
-Judge tanked his DJ easily
-Sanji blocked Judge's attack without major harm

I don't watch the anime so please don't imply that my sources are the anime instead of the manga.

Judge did stalled Snack for several hours. Read 898-902 again and pay attention to Judge's opponent and Judge's condition the moment BM appears.

He didnt handle Daifuku, he clashed with him twice. First time on wedding and got sent flying into the ground and second time when Daifuku was attacking carrot he stopped his attack.

Maybe we our definitions of "handling something" are off here? Let me rephrase myself then. He had no major problems against Daifuku.

He never fought Over, except hitting him while he was fighting Pound. Anime portrayed Sanji in far better light than he was in Manga.

Again, I don't watch the anime so please don't imply it.

Even if Oven was "fighting" Pound, he was literally trashed by Sanji.

-Oven failed to react, even with CoO
-Oven was bleeding and had bruises from a no named non DJ kick
-He wasn't even aware who did him in...

All accomplishments of Sanji is attacking someone who is not looking and who was busy with another opponent - Oven fought Pound, Raisin fought Luffy, Sheepshead fought Brook.

Do you see the mid trio pulling off similar feats when the opponents are distracted?

Franky struggled against Senor Pink.
Brook was humiliated by Perospero.
Robin has nothing going for her except for her hax, which is nearly useless against CoA user.

Only inferior could be Robin, Brook and Usopp but if they fought against Sanji I would bet my money on Robin and Brook.

I won't reply back to you. Your opinion is way to off compared to mine, there's no merit in arguing.

You fail to see that Sanji is still part of the M3 and vastly above the the rest bar Luffy and Zoro.

First thing we get power level wise after the timeskip is putting Luffy, Zoro and Sanji on similar terms of overall strength with their portrayal against the Pacifista and the Kraken and you are actually believing that Brook could beat Sanji.

 

[nik87]

It's not about Wada, it's about the DC HM can pull. Wada was hillsize+ and HM covered and roasted him in mere moments.
It is also about portrayal. Sanji's HM was used as finisher and not Jinbei's Secret Technique.

We have yet to see what Hell Memories can do against a proper opponent. You cant deny that Wadatsumi was rather a fodder character, impressive only by his size.

Read it again. He made Vergo bleed.

Bleed yes, correct, still no effect on Vergo.

Even if Vergo das his heart it doesn't change the fact that he was too slow to react/dodge. Sanji objectively showed better speed and both were in a similar condition.

Law was teleporting his heart at that location so dodging from that situation would result in not getting his heart. Still, Sanji may as well be faster character than Law, not debating it.

Read it again. DD laughed off his G2 attacks bar the one Red Hawk.

You said it yourself, Red Hawk did something. Sanji's attacks did nothing.

Ofc, some are fodder but wasn't Brook unable to finish of this Headliner that Sanji one shotted? The portrayal is clear again. Sanji could easily beat a headliner, brook can't.

Brook was only blocking Sheepshead attack, Sanji jumped in and landed a cheap shot.

Sanji is by no means far stronger than Judge.
-They both clased equally in CqC
-Judge tanked his DJ easily
-Sanji blocked Judge's attack without major harm
I don't watch the anime so please don't imply that my sources are the anime instead of the manga.
Judge did stalled Snack for several hours. Read 898-902 again and pay attention to Judge's opponent and Judge's condition the moment BM appears.

I do see Sanji above Judge. Judge stalling Snack for several hours? Where do you get such info from? There is no evidence that they ever fought and certainly not for several hours. Only Snack's silhouette is seen approaching and last time we see Judge is when BM was arriving and he had blood on his face.

Maybe we our definitions of "handling something" are off here? Let me rephrase myself then. He had no major problems against Daifuku.

Like i said, he clashed with him only twice. First clash he lost and was sent flying and from second clash we only know he stopped him while attacking Carrot.

Again, I don't watch the anime so please don't imply it.
Even if Oven was "fighting" Pound, he was literally trashed by Sanji.
-Oven failed to react, even with CoO
-Oven was bleeding and had bruises from a no named non DJ kick
-He wasn't even aware who did him in...

You implying that Sanji actually fought Oven sounds like your source is anime instead of manga.
It's not for debate whether he fought Pound or not, he was, read the scene. Sanji landed a cheap shot on his neck and Oven after that had bruises on his face which is from the impact into the rubble not from kick to the neck. Oven stood up without trouble, took a clean hit to his face from Bege's cannon and still went on like nothing happened and you say Sanji trashed him... Do you have proof he even used CoO?

Do you see the mid trio pulling off similar feats when the opponents are distracted?
Franky struggled against Senor Pink.
Brook was humiliated by Perospero.
Robin has nothing going for her except for her hax, which is nearly useless against CoA user.

Franky only struggled because he decided to use only his fists in fight with Senor Pink and avoiding hits was not an option. All his cyborg arsenal was not used. Did you actually expect from Brook to beat the eldest son of BM worth 700mil? Robin's DF is extremely useful against someone like Sanji, he stands 0 chance against her.

I won't reply back to you. Your opinion is way to off compared to mine, there's no merit in arguing.
You fail to see that Sanji is still part of the M3 and vastly above the the rest bar Luffy and Zoro.
First thing we get power level wise after the timeskip is putting Luffy, Zoro and Sanji on similar terms of overall strength with their portrayal against the Pacifista and the Kraken and you are actually believing that Brook could beat Sanji.

Sanji totally could still be part of monster trio but judging from what we saw so far he cant hold a candle to almost all Strawhat members.
I wont bother to compare him to Luffy and Zoro. What can Sanji do to outperform Jinbe punching a Yonko away or tanking Yonko's sword slash? What can he do to outperform Franky's laser beams? How can he outdo Chopper's Monster point? Or Nami's thunder that struck Big Mom in WCI? How will he beat speedster Brook with ice-based cutting techniques? Robin's effectiveness is far better on characters who are not immune to her abilities(brokenly powerful to ignore her ability). Usopp is the only one i dont see more effective than Sanji but he has his specialty as a sniper which no one other in crew can match.
All other crew members are either more effective or have more destructive abilities than what Sanji has shown so far.

 

[M3J]

Sanji totally could still be part of monster trio but judging from what we saw so far he cant hold a candle to almost all Strawhat members.
I wont bother to compare him to Luffy and Zoro. What can Sanji do to outperform Jinbe punching a Yonko away or tanking Yonko's sword slash? What can he do to outperform Franky's laser beams? How can he outdo Chopper's Monster point? Or Nami's thunder that struck Big Mom in WCI? How will he beat speedster Brook with ice-based cutting techniques? Robin's effectiveness is far better on characters who are not immune to her abilities(brokenly powerful to ignore her ability). Usopp is the only one i dont see more effective than Sanji but he has his specialty as a sniper which no one other in crew can match.
All other crew members are either more effective or have

If you wanna play it like that then let's remember that even Luffy's Gear 4 punch didn't do anything to Big Mom, so does that mean Jinbei and Nami are superior, and that Luffy can't hold a candle to them? They both did more damage to her than Luffy. Or how can Luffy stay awake when Brook plays his lullaby?

If Nami and the others fought Big Mom, they'd get wrecked in one or two hits. If Sanji fought Big Mom, it'd take more hits to keep him down, he'd last longer in a fight and deal more damage. Also, didn't Nami's thunder get a boost from Zeus?

 

[Pirate Queen]

With Jinbe officially being a member of the Straw Hat Pirates, does this mean Sanji is no long a member of the Monster Trio?

Or

Is it just that Jinbe, Zoro, and Sanji are the Monster Trio. Equivalent to Kaido's Disasters or Big Mom's Sweet Commanders?


I would like to think the latter.

Straw Hat Luffy's Monster Trio... Has a nice ring to it.

 

[nik87]

If you wanna play it like that then let's remember that even Luffy's Gear 4 punch didn't do anything to Big Mom, so does that mean Jinbei and Nami are superior, and that Luffy can't hold a candle to them? They both did more damage to her than Luffy. Or how can Luffy stay awake when Brook plays his lullaby?

If Nami and the others fought Big Mom, they'd get wrecked in one or two hits. If Sanji fought Big Mom, it'd take more hits to keep him down, he'd last longer in a fight and deal more damage. Also, didn't Nami's thunder get a boost from Zeus?

Well, not, since Luffy clashed with fresh BM while Jinbe clashed with weakened BM, its still an impressive feat for both his offense and defense.
A fresh BM would most likely trash every Strawhat in one attack, the way Kaido did to Luffy. I dont think Kaido and BM are that different.

Yes, Nami's thunder got boosted from Zeus but we can consider it her power-up at this point same way we consider raid suit for Sanji, only difference is we havent seen it yet with Sanji.

That's my point, with everything that we saw so far, other members got far more impressive abilities than Sanji.

@Lexusflame Probably the latter as Luffy is being pushed into Yonko title.

 

[M3J]

With Jinbe officially being a member of the Straw Hat Pirates, does this mean Sanji is no long a member of the Monster Trio?

Or

Is it just that Jinbe, Zoro, and Sanji are the Monster Trio. Equivalent to Kaido's Disasters or Big Mom's Sweet Commanders?


I would like to think the latter.

Straw Hat Luffy's Monster Trio... Has a nice ring to it.

Well, not, since Luffy clashed with fresh BM while Jinbe clashed with weakened BM, its still an impressive feat for both his offense and defense.
A fresh BM would most likely trash every Strawhat in one attack, the way Kaido did to Luffy. I dont think Kaido and BM are that different.

Yes, Nami's thunder got boosted from Zeus but we can consider it her power-up at this point same way we consider raid suit for Sanji, only difference is we havent seen it yet with Sanji.

That's my point, with everything that we saw so far, other members got far more impressive abilities than Sanji.

@Lexusflame Probably the latter as Luffy is being pushed into Yonko title.

We don't know how weakened Big Mom was because she was still fighting and attacking like she was in almost perfect health, from what I recall anyway.

I disagree, we don't know how much strength Big Mom has compared to Kaidou, especially without her weapon.

But again, she had help from a different source to boost her attack. Zeus wasn't part of her power yet, and probably won't be since something about him and Big Mom. And I'm saying, from what we've seen, they have more impressive feats than Luffy against Big Mom.


I think Jinbei will turn the trio into Monster Quartet. Luffy's crew isn't more than 8 or 9, so there won't be commander sort of stuff. If there is, those are the captains of the crews that joined Luffy, like Barto, Sai, and etc. Luffy looks to be running his whole shit differently, but then again I don't know if Whiteeard's division commanders went to places without him.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

nah sanji is just getting kicked out of current monster trio

EoS sanji might make it back to monster trio though

 

[nik87]

We don't know how weakened Big Mom was because she was still fighting and attacking like she was in almost perfect health, from what I recall anyway.

We dont know precisely yeah but we do know that she went from taking 0 damage from Nami's thunder on the island to getting roasted from Zeus discharge on the sea so that's quite a difference.

 

[Pirate Queen]

nah sanji is just getting kicked out of current monster trio

EoS sanji might make it back to monster trio though

OR the a Monster Trio is based off of the 3 highest bounties on the crew and That's
Luffy 1500000000
Jinbei 438000000
Sanji 330000000

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

OR the a Monster Trio is based off of the 3 highest bounties on the crew and That's
Luffy 1500000000
Jinbei 438000000
Sanji 330000000

only in your headcanon

 

[Pirate Queen]

only in your headcanon

lol dont get triggered. It was obviously a joke

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2018 ---

 

[afromarco005]

-HM got better portrayal than Jinbei's Secret Technique
-He outspeeded Vergo in head-on clash.
-Dodged his his attacks point blank-range, something Law failed to do.
-His DJ got complimented by DD while G2 attacks were labelled as weak by DD.
-One-shotted a Headliner
-Fought equally against Judge, same Judge that stalled Snack, a former sweetcommander, for several hours.
-Handled Daifuku while being massively distracted at the Tea Party
-Owned Oven on Cacao Island with DJ
-His no named non-DJ move easily blocked the slash of the oversized Genie

Overall, he was shown to be above the likes of Raisin, Sheepshead, Yonji, and the likes and around the same Ballpark as the Veterans/Elite Officers.

Nothing, really nothing changed in the PL of the SH.

Luffy and Zoro have still a 6/6 in strength, Sanji a 5/6, Chopper a 2/6, and Nami and Usopp a 1/6.

There's also countless portrayal that still puts him in the M3 despite you claiming/assuming the other SH are close to him.

In chopper's defense he blocked a hit from big mom by himself and came out unscathed.

What do you guys think about the 99 okama recepies? Please don't ignore me this time

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

In chopper's defense he blocked a hit from big mom by himself and came out unscathed.

To be more precise, BM was merely trying to grab the cake and wasn't trying to throw a punch or something like that.

What do you guys think about the 99 okama recepies? Please don't ignore me this time

There's not much to think about it. They represent the training for his cook aspect and are useful for support in-between fights and that's it.

 

[afromarco005]

With Jinbe officially being a member of the Straw Hat Pirates, does this mean Sanji is no long a member of the Monster Trio?
"Monster trio"
Or

Is it just that Jinbe, Zoro, and Sanji are the Monster Trio. Equivalent to Kaido's Disasters or Big Mom's Sweet Commanders?


I would like to think the latter.

Straw Hat Luffy's Monster Trio... Has a nice ring to it.

the "monster trio" thing was a one time joke way back in the grand line saga. This is not an official designation and no one in the manga refers to luffy zoro or sanji as part of the monster trio outside of this one joke. I never understood why the fandom thought that the monster trio was ever a thing

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2018 ---

To be more precise, BM was merely trying to grab the cake and wasn't trying to throw a punch or something like that.

There's not much to think about it. They represent the training for his cook aspect and are useful for support in-between fights and that's it.

this looks more like big mom was trying to smash them all then rip the sunny open to find the cake like she has tried afterwards

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

the "monster trio" thing was a one time joke way back in the grand line saga. This is not an official designation and no one in the manga refers to luffy zoro or sanji as part of the monster trio outside of this one joke. I never understood why the fandom thought that the monster trio was ever a thing

Nonesense. The term "Monster Trio" might be fanmade but the group that is made out of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji, which is often portrayed to be above the others, was created by Oda himself.

It is also not limited to pre TS only. Caribou referred to the 3 as Monster Trio. I could find more examples if I look for it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2018 ---

@afromarco005 NVM my first statement about the term M3 being fanmade.

AOHIGE AP:
This is a common misconception. The term "Monster Trio" is canon, not fanmade.
It's been used quite a few times in the manga, most recently in chapter 606.

Same goes for weakling trio, Usopp actually used the term in the manga as well.



Like I said, that's a common misconception.
Oda does use the term "怪物三人組 (Monster Trio)" in the very manga itself.

 

[afromarco005]

Nonesense. The term "Monster Trio" might be fanmade but the group that is made out of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji, which is often portrayed to be above the others, was created by Oda himself.

It is also not limited to pre TS only. Caribou referred to the 3 as Monster Trio. I could find more examples if I look for it.

Pls proof or it never happened.

Its true that sanji zoro and their captain were always portrayed as the top fighters in the straw hat until the time skip but it is not set in stone that there is a "monster trio" this is just fans and their desire to classify every single thing same goes for power level discussion people talk about va level or yonko level or yonko commander level which are not a thing really, two members of the same category can be worlds apart in power

I still demand for canon proof to be certain

 

[Pirate Queen]

Pls proof or it never happened.

Its true that sanji zoro and their captain were always portrayed as the top fighters in the straw hat until the time skip but it is not set in stone that there is a "monster trio" this is just fans and their desire to classify every single thing same goes for power level discussion people talk about va level or yonko level or yonko commander level which are not a thing really, two members of the same category can be worlds apart in power

I still demand for canon proof to be certain

Proof or it never happened?

You clearly haven't read the manga if you think Monster Trio was fan made lol

You just look ridiculous when you spout off things as if they are "Fact"

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2018 ---

the "monster trio" thing was a one time joke way back in the grand line saga. This is not an official designation and no one in the manga refers to luffy zoro or sanji as part of the monster trio outside of this one joke. I never understood why the fandom thought that the monster trio was ever a thing

*sigh* go reread the manga

 

[afromarco005]

Proof or it never happened?

You clearly haven't read the manga if you think Monster Trio was fan made lol

You just look ridiculous when you spout off things as if they are "Fact"

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2018 ---

*sigh* go reread the manga

Talk is cheap, you have no canon proof that the "monster trio" exists.

You claim that it exists the burden of the proof falls on you