Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[nik87]

Build-up. The cake was a major goal in the arc. You can't say for the rest of the stuff.
The whole arc was leading to that one scene where that obesed old woman could finally taste bliss.

So the result in the end is the same but build up makes Sanji special...
Other things had a build up too, like for example the tamatebako which had build up since Fishman island arc and saved them all and gave them more time for escape than the cake, I dont see anyone praising it like Sanji's cake.
There is just the urge to present Sanji better than he is, because his performance during WCI was unsatisfying. No need for it, he will have a chance to shine in Wano.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If we are talking MVP of WCI, I don't know Brook isnt in the discussion. Am I missing something?

I dont count Luffy because he is supposed to shine, but MVP??? Brook all the way.

While the cake was vital in everyone's survival, it's not even close to the amount of accomplishments Brook performed

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

So the result in the end is the same but build up makes Sanji special...
Other things had a build up too, like for example the tamatebako which had build up since Fishman island arc and saved them all and gave them more time for escape than the cake, I dont see anyone praising it like Sanji's cake.

Neat. Comparing a feat with a random event. (Y)

There is just the urge to present Sanji better than he is, because his performance during WCI was unsatisfying.

It wasn't. He had no problems against Veteran fighter without his DJ and was also shining as a character. We also had a lot of his backstory. His performance was fine.

No need for it, he will have a chance to shine in Wano.

Obviously. He is the 3rd strongest after all.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2018 ---

If we are talking MVP of WCI, I don't know Brook isnt in the discussion. Am I missing something?

I dont count Luffy because he is supposed to shine, but MVP??? Brook all the way.

While the cake was vital in everyone's survival, it's not even close to the amount of accomplishments Brook performed

Yeah, brook did hella good.

Brook: got the pone and destroyed the MotherC. picture.
Sanji: Got Pudding on their side, baked the cake and got luffy out of Cacao island.

 

[nik87]

If we are talking MVP of WCI, I don't know Brook isnt in the discussion. Am I missing something?
I dont count Luffy because he is supposed to shine, but MVP??? Brook all the way.
While the cake was vital in everyone's survival, it's not even close to the amount of accomplishments Brook performed

No one is arguing that. Brook was the best definitelly, we are debating if Sanji is or not. Imo, not since his action saved the crew which did everyone else as well.

Neat. Comparing a feat with a random event.

Well, you value the cake because of the build up, now i give you something with more build up and you still not satisfied, nothing is better than Sanji's cake lol.

It wasn't. He had no problems against Veteran fighter without his DJ and was also shining as a character. We also had a lot of his backstory. His performance was fine.

Hitting them while they are fighting someone else is not an impressive feat.

got luffy out of Cacao island.

He didnt, Niji did.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Don't get me wrong. Sanji was VITAL in WCI, just not the MVP.

Key player? Yes

I think Sanji is unfairly judged by the One Piece community solely because of the overwhelming amount of Zoro fans. It's such a divisive battle (zoro v Sanji) that each side does whatever it can to discredit the other side. Too often you find those pretending to be unbiased towards Sanji having a history of discrediting him.

If your saying Sanji was little more than useless for baking a cake, your going out of your way to deny the context and impact that part of the story for the cook.

I was pleased with the "Year of Sanji" I would have preferred a 1 v 1 against one of BM's elites like Oven... But I can accept WCI wasn't really a battle arc.

-He did well with the few clashes he had: Bobbin, Oven, and Daifuku.
-Sent Big Mom away from the main force of her troops
-Rose above his family and proved he was stronger than them and they only prevailed by doing underhanded tactics against him. Finally stood up to his father.


I am VERY pleased with his character development and feats and if you are discrediting him by saying it's not a big deal to bake a cake then the FACT is you don't understand the fundamental purpose of WCI

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Don't get me wrong. Sanji was VITAL in WCI, just not the MVP.

yeah not exactly the same, but my point is quite like this. Sanji has role in WCI, but he's not MVP.
Eiyuu Yami just doesn't understand this because he hates to admit that his idol sanji is not the dream MVP he thought of.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji is one of the MVP if even Oda discussed without the cake, it would be disaster for everyone in SBS. Not really same amount to others as you guys trying to insert honestly. I do respect that Brook is MVP though as well for his performance even if he didn't win any fights.

 

[nik87]

@Lexusflame The arc was about Sanji, named the year of Sanji. No one is disputing development of his character and interactions with his family.

The result of his cake is being put on a pedestal for saving the crew. There have been tons of events which saved the crew in WCI arc, Pedro even lost his life doing so. Like i mentioned in earlier replies, almost everyone participating in WCI has saved the crew at some point. The arc was mainly about Sanji, yes but the effect of his cake is the same as effect of the actions of everyone else - saving the crew.
Sanji's cake did it's thing, no one is disputing it or belittling but lets not make it look better than it is. The MVP's of the arc are, imo, Brook and Pedro and we could say Luffy but we can also exclude him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sanji is one of the MVP if even Oda discussed without the cake, it would be disaster for everyone in SBS. Not really same amount to others as you guys trying to insert honestly. I do respect that Brook is MVP though as well for his performance even if he didn't win any fights.

I read that SBS, Oda himself acknowledged the cake's importance and when the Author of his own Manga goes out of his way to clarify something, who are we to disregard it?


If we are talking MULTIPLE mvp's it kind of ruins the purpose of even using that acronym. "MOST VALUABLE PLAYER" not PLAYERS.

If we are saying there is more than one, sure Sanji is an MVP

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2018 ---

@Lexusflame The arc was about Sanji, named the year of Sanji. No one is disputing development of his character and interactions with his family.

The result of his cake is being put on a pedestal for saving the crew. There have been tons of events which saved the crew in WCI arc, Pedro even lost his life doing so. Like i mentioned in earlier replies, almost everyone participating in WCI has saved the crew at some point. The arc was mainly about Sanji, yes but the effect of his cake is the same as effect of the actions of everyone else - saving the crew.
Sanji's cake did it's thing, no one is disputing it or belittling but lets not make it look better than it is. The MVP's of the arc are, imo, Brook and Pedro and we could say Luffy but we can also exclude him.

Yes alot of events saved the crew, but those feats could have been dealt with anyone and be made believable. ONLY Sanji could have made that cake so deliciously and quickly. As such he was the only one that could have saved them in that instance.

 

[nik87]

If we are talking MULTIPLE mvp's it kind of ruins the purpose of even using that acronym. "MOST VALUABLE PLAYER" not PLAYERS.
If we are saying there is more than one, sure Sanji is an MVP

Brook it is then. If we list Sanji as well, we can list everyone who saved the crew as well - basically everyone.

I dont think those events could be done by anyone, they are specific. Who else could put Sunny in the mouth and pull it underwater? Who else could rough up the seas like fishmen did to make the escape possible? Who else was expendable like Pedro? Who else had the fleet like Germa66 to stop BM fleet? Who else could save Luffy from poison fish other than Reiju? Who else had the helmsman skills to save Sunny from big wave? ...

 

[Eiyuu Yami]

sanji was the the trigger of WCI arc though, since if he never got married, shp would never need to go to wci. And then the problem of wci happened.
just like how nami triggered arlong park arc and robin triggered enies lobby

pfft haha

>Sanji got in trouble
>He decided to handle it by himself
>Crew ignored him and made their own decision
>They got into trouble
>Sanji warned them this time
>Luffy was being selfish again
>Luffy as the captain decided that they will save the vins and the crew was wholeheartedly backing him up
>Sanji never requested for their help

Your statement was "he was bringing trouble to the shp" which absolutely wrong. The correct statement is "he got into trouble, he wanted to handle himself, the crew denied his request and got caught into trouble"...

baseless claim. Sounds like you got butthurt.

Smh. Your statement was was just wrong.

^ basically Eiyuu Yami admitting that he cannot construct proper arguments for wedding cake and hence why he can't convince me.
You realize this is a discussion topic, right?

You realise that I can't be bothered to explain that the cake was a huge factor for 30+ chapters....

well, did zoro cause trouble to his ally on his fight to mihawk though? Seemed like he was the only being attacked by mihawk.
The issue i brought was if you hold your ego even when you were also troubling your allies......read back my post before you replied.

Not even the point lol. The point is he put his own principles over the crew.

You are actually expecting Sanji to poison the cake, huh? Are you aware that Luffy recruited Sanji because he saw him feeding a criminal? You are making light of how important food for Sanji is.

The goal of the cake was to stop BMs tantrum and not kill her so stop expecting Sanji to go out of character.

Nobody blames Luffy for starting a war with the marines, hitting a tenryubito or starting a fight with Kaido for his friends either.

so why talked about him at the first place then? you contradicted yourself

You tried to make Sanji a scapegoat and i showed you that other SHs are selfish as well.

so his principle is more important than the safety of his ally, then? What a selfish person.......

Yes. Can't wait for you to call luffy and Zoro selfish as well. I mean they clearly put revenge > nakama (luffy hitting tenryubito) and "letting steam of > allies plan to save a whole country" (zoro killing the shogunate officer)...

seemed like you were the one not getting my point though.

Your points:

-Sanji brought trouble to the SH
-Sanji should have gone out of character to needlessly kill BM so he could never face Zeff again and tell his captain that he actually cares shit about principles and luffy got wrong impression when he recruited him back then he feeded gin the criminal.

Eiyuu Yami just doesn't understand this because he hates to admit that his idol sanji is not the dream MVP he thought of.

Sigh... For the record, you failed esper:

Ace
Marco
Whitebeard
Katakuri
Luffy
Zoro
Sanji

Are my favourite characters. In that order. PL-wise I scale the M3 like that...

Luffy 6/6 in strength
Zoro 6/6
Sanji 5/6

Btw, let's agree to disagree. You can see that as me giving up the discussion or whatever.

 

[Shasha23]

pfft haha

>Sanji got in trouble
>He decided to handle it by himself
>Crew ignored him and made their own decision
>They got into trouble
>Sanji warned them this time
>Luffy was being selfish again
>Luffy as the captain decided that they will save the vins and the crew was wholeheartedly backing him up
>Sanji never requested for their help

First off your talking total nonsense,

>Crew ignored him and made their own decision : you cant leave crew without captains approval, this was even agreed upon long ago, when Sanji left without Luffy's approval he was betraying the crew and sabotaging them, Zoro even pointed this out

Like its already being pointed out and was made very clear long ago, what Sanji did has not been forgiven and punished, that is why the whole crew hasn't set down as a whole yet, because this issue will need to be addressed of Sanji's betrayal of the crew

>Sanji never requested for their help : but he did, crying even!

 

[Takuan]

Damn, two pages of discussion. I don't have time to backread everything, i'll just answer the quotes for now and i'll be back in the thread later.

It was SBS Volume 90. One of the questions ask what would happen if Big Mom is get hunger pangs and cravings for wedding cake again since Sanji was the only one to make it and knowledge of it like. Check it out to see it.

We not saying those aren't important but the person who made something to save many lives kinda deserve MVP spot for that whether you like or dislike it.

As for the question, impossible as they would have no knowledge of what its like and design as with the right ingredients. Sanji was the one to give blueprints about it due to a keen sense of smell than average human (Feat that is also overlook).

They didn't have anyone like that by their panicking. So again if Sanji wasn't there, everyone would perish even if they try replicating it, it won't be exactly the same by smell and taste.

Thanks, yeah i'll check it out later. I've only read several SBSs so far, definitely not all of them, so i missed quite a lot of things.

That was hypothetically speaking; or you could imagine Streusen and the rest of Big Mom's chief, or whoever you want. Basically if the original wedding cake had been remade instead of the cake Sanji baked. But that question wasn't important anyway.

You may be right but again, he still saved the lives of his crew and the ship. That makes him one of the MVPs, especially since he was the only one to succeed in driving Big Mom away. He, Jinbei, and Brook each played a key role in the Straw Hats' success.


Basically because, "no shit it's your opinion, no need to say it's our opinions/views." That's obvious.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Until wci his cooking skills were only labelled as tasty and such by normies or the SH.

Satisfying the taste of aa Y character that has access to top class ingredients and cooks for decades... is a huge feat for his Cook aspect...

Personally, i would say yes. Just like Usopp was MVP in DD's eyes.

Ehhhhhh, i don't know if i agree with that tbh. Like, Sanji has already been shown cooking with leftovers and very little ingredients and still managed to cook stuff that would amaze people. It was only expected that he would be able to bake an amazing wedding cake with the top tier cook ingredients he's been provided.
He also did stuff like cooking competitions and won big time against very competent cooks - though it could have been fillers, i don't know if that counts. Anyway, i don't think we can say that Sanji's cooking skills so far were unproven because he only cooked for normies. I think it was fairly obvious for everyone that Sanji was an amazing cook, and baking this wedding cake was most obviously in his range.

I don't think Usopp was MVP in Doffy's eyes; not in the sense that he was the one giving him the most danger or something. More like he was the one who pissed him off the most due to what he had done. But i get your point. I asked that question because i thought that people wouldn't consider CHiffon, or Streusen or whatever, MVP if they were the ones who baked that cake instead of Sanji. But if you'd consider them MVPs, then it's fair.

 

[M3J]

If it weren't for all the things i mentioned above and more, the crew and ship would have been finished several times. Sanji's cake baking actions did the same that everyone else did in the end, lets not present him in better light than he was and no need to point fingers at Bege for trusting in Sanji's cake and going out of his character.

The cake did its part, nothing special, just another thing in the chain of events. Everything was important, it cannot be left out.

Why not point fingers at Bege for not poisoning the cake? He had a choice to make, and he chose not to poison the cake even though that'd be in his character. Sanji not doing it is within his character, and yet he's the one who gets the flak? That's a load of bullshit.

The cake literally saved the crew, just as how Jinbei saved Luffy and Nami. Germa also saved Luffy and Sanji as well, or at least helped them escape. Who else saved the Straw Hats? Pekoms was mostly useless.

If we are talking MVP of WCI, I don't know Brook isnt in the discussion. Am I missing something?

I dont count Luffy because he is supposed to shine, but MVP??? Brook all the way.

While the cake was vital in everyone's survival, it's not even close to the amount of accomplishments Brook performed

We all agree Brook is the top MVP, easily, there's no discussion to be had there other than fanboying over what Brook did. Luffy wasn't really an MVP though, he's taken far more Ls and would have caused his crew to go down as well.

Fair enough, fair enough.

I forgot to state this, but I'm also trying to say that I'm not trying to be aggressive, at least not to you.

 

[nik87]

Why not point fingers at Bege for not poisoning the cake? He had a choice to make, and he chose not to poison the cake even though that'd be in his character. Sanji not doing it is within his character, and yet he's the one who gets the flak? That's a load of bullshit.

The cake literally saved the crew, just as how Jinbei saved Luffy and Nami. Germa also saved Luffy and Sanji as well, or at least helped them escape. Who else saved the Straw Hats? Pekoms was mostly useless.

Because Bege has tasted the cake and put his trust into Sanji as we all did. His panel saying he would make Big Mom faith looked so promising at that time and when we saw what happened, everyone was like: That's it?
Sure we can blame Bege but that wont make Sanji's cake look better as it wasnt a solution that it was hyped up to be. Surely, it has saved the crew, nobody can take that away but like i said several times in previous replies, so many things in WCI arc have saved the crew(since you ask who else, check my previous replies). The arc was about Sanji's character, great but being an MVP because of the cake? Nope.

 

[M3J]

Because Bege has tasted the cake and put his trust into Sanji as we all did. His panel saying he would make Big Mom faith looked so promising at that time and when we saw what happened, everyone was like: That's it?
Sure we can blame Bege but that wont make Sanji's cake look better as it wasnt a solution that it was hyped up to be. Surely, it has saved the crew, nobody can take that away but like i said several times in previous replies, so many things in WCI arc have saved the crew(since you ask who else, check my previous replies). The arc was about Sanji's character, great but being an MVP because of the cake? Nope.

Nevertheless, Bege should be at fault for not poisoning the cake when it's in his character to do so, whereas Sanji's character since Baratie was introduced as a guy who'd feed people and is proud of his cooking. And Big Mom was down and out until Perospero updated her on what happened, so one could argue that Sanji's brag would have been spot on if it weren't for interference.

But, it was a solution, and it did what it was supposed to. Big Mom may not have been knocked out for a day or three but I'm pretty sure no one but some readers are complaining about that, especially since it looks like her crew failed to get Germa or Jinbei, the former who would have been dead without Sanji. So yeah, he is the MVP, and I actually forgot to consider that his saving the Germa did have an effect. Jinbei saved Luffy and Nami while Pedro saved the crew, but as far as I recall, that's about it.

Yep, because his cake saved the crew from destruction, and him saving his family also helped him and Luffy escape the island.

 

[nik87]

Nevertheless, Bege should be at fault for not poisoning the cake

Well, like i said, we can blame Bege but doesnt change the effect of the cake. Sanji's promise of a cake that will make BM faint looked so promising at the time.
I dunno, maybe my expectations from the cake were too big. Big expectations, big disappointment. I thought it would disable BM for the remaining of the arc which it didnt and in the end left Germa66 and Sun Pirates exposed to her wrath.

But, it was a solution, and it did what it was supposed to.

Only a temporary solution, like everything else, thats why I dont think big of it and dont consider Sanji a MVP.
During wedding mayhem, Bege used Big Father and saved the crew temporarily. Then Tamatebako exploded and saved the crew temporarily.
Nami saved them from the hommies army with the vivre card and was crucial in Cracker's downfall.
Jinbe saved Luffy and Nami from prison book and saved the crew and Sunny from the big wave and temporarily stopping BM's rampage on ship.
Carrot saved them by disabling the BM fleet's steering.
Pedro saved them from a desperate situation by sacrificing his life.
Pudding saved them by playing along to bake the cake and lied to BM forces.
Vinsmokes saved them and prevented Luffy and Sanji from getting shot to death.
Judge saved them by temporarily stopping the second wave of BM's fleet.
Wadatsumi saved them by pulling the ship underwater.
Sun Pirates saved them by stopping the BM's fleet from moving and finally by roughing up the sea until Strawhats were out of Totland.

As you can see, there are so many things which saved the day during the WCI arc, Sanji is one of them. All of those were crucial and if you take one out the entire thing crumbles. That's why saving the crew doesnt give you the MVP status but rather exceptional things like what Brook did.

 

[XXGenesis]

Right sanji as a chef did not deliver on his promise of K.O BM with his Cake.....Shr ate it and enjoyed it very much...but it did not stop her rampage...Thats a fail..but it's s fail that is sorta of overshadow'f by the Alliance's triumph in rescuing Damn I and Dis crediting BM...

But Sanji wasnt spectacular in the BM arc. Aside from his cooking not stopping BM.. He also very stupidly beat the crap outta Luffy who didnt even fight back...Idk how Nami doesn't still remind him of that mis step as a crew member and nakama.

 

[nik87]

Idk how Nami doesn't still remind him of that mis step as a crew member and nakama.

The consequences of that fight will probably come to the light when Zoro reunites with the crew, Oda specifically removed him from the picture.

 

[M3J]

Well, like i said, we can blame Bege but doesnt change the effect of the cake. Sanji's promise of a cake that will make BM faint looked so promising at the time.
I dunno, maybe my expectations from the cake were too big. Big expectations, big disappointment. I thought it would disable BM for the remaining of the arc which it didnt and in the end left Germa66 and Sun Pirates exposed to her wrath.

She was down and out until Perospero talked to her. I posted a link few days ago that showed her down and in bliss until Perospero updated her on what was going on. That is a high expectation to have though.

Supposedly, but if she was able to take her wrath out on them or capture them, then why hasn't this been implied or mentioned? Surely the news would at least mention the two well-known groups falling victim to Big Mom. And Big Mom herself also didn't act like she had either of them, and if she did, why not use the Sun Pirates at the least to lure Luffy back? She knows Luffy would come back for his friends, as he did with Sanji, so why not use Jinbei or the Sun Pirates? Or even the Germa 66?

Only a temporary solution, like everything else, thats why I dont think big of it and dont consider Sanji a MVP.
During wedding mayhem, Bege used Big Father and saved the crew temporarily. Then Tamatebako exploded and saved the crew temporarily.
Nami saved them from the hommies army with the vivre card and was crucial in Cracker's downfall.
Jinbe saved Luffy and Nami from prison book and saved the crew and Sunny from the big wave and temporarily stopping BM's rampage on ship.
Carrot saved them by disabling the BM fleet's steering.
Pedro saved them from a desperate situation by sacrificing his life.
Pudding saved them by playing along to bake the cake and lied to BM forces.
Vinsmokes saved them and prevented Luffy and Sanji from getting shot to death.
Judge saved them by temporarily stopping the second wave of BM's fleet.
Wadatsumi saved them by pulling the ship underwater.
Sun Pirates saved them by stopping the BM's fleet from moving and finally by roughing up the sea until Strawhats were out of Totland.

As you can see, there are so many things which saved the day during the WCI arc, Sanji is one of them. All of those were crucial and if you take one out the entire thing crumbles. That's why saving the crew doesnt give you the MVP status but rather exceptional things like what Brook did.

A temporary solution that saved the Straw Hats, including Luffy, and especially Jinbei. Instead of saying Jinbei went down with the ship, we can say he MIGHT be captured by Big Mom.

The Tamatebako saved the crew, but it's not a person. Without that, the entire crew would have likely been dead. While Bege's big Father did save them, he was still unable to get the crew to safety.
if I recall correctly, Nami just saved time with the homies, but she didn't save the Straw Hats in general, just Luffy.
I said Jinbei was one of the MVPs of the arc.
Carrot likely made it easier for the Straw Hats to get away, not saved them. But again, I could be wrong as I'm going by my memory as I don't wanna read chapters again.
Said that about Pedro.
Pudding did that because of Sanji, and she also sped things up. An assumption, but even Big Mom's forces wouldn't have stopped Sanji from making a cake that'd calm Big Mom down.
The Vinsmokes (including the Judge) were able to save Luffy and Sanji because Sanji chose to save them earlier, which would prove why he's one of the MVPs.
And Wadatsumi proceeded to get burned and unable to do anything.
True with Sun Pirates though.


Without Sanji though, the crew would have been dead or lost to Big Mom. From him saving Germa to saving Luffy, his actions were vital. If he didn't choose to save Germa, then they wouldn't have helped Luffy and the others. If it weren't for Perospero, Big Mom likely would not have moved from her spot, she looked too blissful.

Right sanji as a chef did not deliver on his promise of K.O BM with his Cake.....Shr ate it and enjoyed it very much...but it did not stop her rampage...Thats a fail..but it's s fail that is sorta of overshadow'f by the Alliance's triumph in rescuing Damn I and Dis crediting BM...

But Sanji wasnt spectacular in the BM arc. Aside from his cooking not stopping BM.. He also very stupidly beat the crap outta Luffy who didnt even fight back...Idk how Nami doesn't still remind him of that mis step as a crew member and nakama.

How did it not stop her rampage? Wtf