Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Who will be Sanji's main opponent during the Raid on Onigashima?


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So.. overhyping zoro = shat on Sanji? LOL
For me overhyping zoro = overhyping zoro.. no more no less..
Okay since I need to simplify this for you here goes: Oda pre time skip showed them as more or less equals(arguably close in strength). Post time skip, zoro seems to have pulled ahead. So when zoro fans say shit like Zoro coulda beaten Mingo, and don’t wanna hear the idea that Sanji has the chance of being strong enough to go up against Jack/Katakuri(personally believe he’ll lose, but it’s a good match up). They tend to shut down that discussion by shutting on sanji.

Do I need to break it down further for you??
 

nik87

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I see no chance for Sanji against the captains' Supernovas and non-captains alike.

Zoro and Killer are swordsmen and first mates of their crews and I see no chance for Sanji to beat someone who specializes in armed combat at that tier.
Against Luffy he has no chance and its not needed to be explained.
Against Blackbeard...no chance.
Bege's devil fruit has all kinds of tricks, he has defense and firepower plus his DF allows him to use his crew within himself.
Bonney turns Sanji into little kid and he stands no chance even if he decides to fight her.
Urogue, the man who amplifies physical strength and uses a huge weapon to fight gives Sanji 0 chances.
Kidd the bloodthirsty psycho with metal arm and metal items flying around him gives no chance to Sanji.
Law's devil fruit is way too hax for Sanji to be even debated having a chance plus he uses a sword.
Hawkins can die 10 times until he has to even take any damage himself and we saw his doll's strength complimented by Zoro and also uses sword manipulation.
Apoo's techniques were able to cut admiral and they explode as well and long arm combat style is to be expected judging from Ideo, no chance for Sanji.
X-Drake strength as a Zoan cannot be disputed and he uses two sharp weapons, no chance for Sanji.

I wont even bring Haki into play here as it only supports the captains and non-captains alike, current Sanji has shown no feats able to beat anyone from the Worst Generation. In the future, Sanji will grow but all Supernovas will as well and that is too much assuming so comparing current feats gives a better representation of how they stand against each other.
 

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Merry christmas everyone!
Merry Christmas bro
Before the WCI arc I was under the impression that he could maybe beat or at least have a draw against Capone but now that we have seen his big faether form tank several enraged Big Mom's hits, I don't think so anymore.
Nah, Big Father is good at defending but it's not good offense wise considering it fires cannon balls (something a fighter on Sanji's calliber should have no issues with). He also barely endured two attacks from Big Mom so I wouldn't overestimate it's durability anyway.
Maybe Killer but he is on zoros level imo and Zoro is above Sanji, Killer using sharp weapons as well I don't see the fight going any differently.
Killer being on Zoro's level is an assumption that has no proof my guy. There's not even any guarantee that Kidd himself can beat Zoro (no, Kidd being portrayed as Luffy’s rival is not a good excuse, Zoro has been assumed to be One Piece’s Vegeta for waaaaay longer).
He loses against Bonney by default.
Putting a character up against another character isn't the same as comparing them power wise. Sanji would lose to any woman in One Piece but he's still stronger than the majority of them, including Bonney
XDrake is looking like a beast probably beyond even Luffy right now.
Considering he's only a headliner, I really doubt he would last 10 minutes against a serious Luffy.
Apoo and Hawkins no idea but seeing how they were able to injure Zoro and their hax DF I'd give them the edge over sanji.
Apoo never injured Zoro. Zoro would have destroyed Hawkins if the fight was prolonged.
Urouge the Ma.D Monk strongest supernova reigns supreme so no luck here.
My man lmao.
Kidd is shaping up to be Luffys rival so again way beyond Sanji, plus his metal defenses would be a problem for sanji or if he gets caught by it.
“Way beyond sanji” is likely an overstatement lol. 'Probably' beyond Sanji is more accurate. On the Luffy rival point I just wanna point out that what Luffy's accomplished in the little time he's been in the new world and what Kidd has accomplished in the 2 years he's been in the new world are insurmountably different. Kidd is likely gonna be a beast when he gets out of jail, but I'd still have Luffy comfortably over him.
So imo Sanji<Supernova atm. Everything could change with the upcoming arc and the raid Suit (maybe)
“Sanji<Supernova” is too broad of a conclusion considering the level of supernova spans from Bonney level to Luffy level. There are certain supernova that are too featless or not impressive enough to place over Sanji.
 

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I see no chance for Sanji against the captains' Supernovas and non-captains alike.

Zoro and Killer are swordsmen and first mates of their crews and I see no chance for Sanji to beat someone who specializes in armed combat at that tier.
Against Luffy he has no chance and its not needed to be explained.
Against Blackbeard...no chance.
Bege's devil fruit has all kinds of tricks, he has defense and firepower plus his DF allows him to use his crew within himself.
Bonney turns Sanji into little kid and he stands no chance even if he decides to fight her.
Urogue, the man who amplifies physical strength and uses a huge weapon to fight gives Sanji 0 chances.
Kidd the bloodthirsty psycho with metal arm and metal items flying around him gives no chance to Sanji.
Law's devil fruit is way too hax for Sanji to be even debated having a chance plus he uses a sword.
Hawkins can die 10 times until he has to even take any damage himself and we saw his doll's strength complimented by Zoro and also uses sword manipulation.
Apoo's techniques were able to cut admiral and they explode as well and long arm combat style is to be expected judging from Ideo, no chance for Sanji.
X-Drake strength as a Zoan cannot be disputed and he uses two sharp weapons, no chance for Sanji.

I wont even bring Haki into play here as it only supports the captains and non-captains alike, current Sanji has shown no feats able to beat anyone from the Worst Generation. In the future, Sanji will grow but all Supernovas will as well and that is too much assuming so comparing current feats gives a better representation of how they stand against each other.
Since when armed people been a issue for Sanji? Sanji fight with anyone, doesn't matter their weapon or what they have. With his fights with Zoro comical or not, it shows and same with Killer who if he is made to be Zoro equal, is the same, but again he has no feats to talk on other than fighting fodder. He doesn't match right now until we see more.

Bege is no problem to him and tricks are nothing new as Sanji is a smart and strategist, so he will know how to combat it unlike Zoro who tricky appoints take him longer and disadvantage with more. Bege all got defense which might help him not get defeated right away, but he is not on any good offense level and doesn't know Haki from how it looks. He won't survive in a fight with Sanji even in a long-term and that being nice about it.

Bonney is not stronger than Sanji, don't insert that. Even if they were to fight, he won't as it would be a Kalifia situation where he can block a women's attack, but no hurt her. That doesn't mean isn't stronger as Sanji would go on to defeat Jabra who has more Dokori than Kalifia. Just his pride for not hitting women, not the strength.

Urouge while again I could put him as one of the ones he can't beat, though Sanji being prep up to face Queen who is far stronger and powerful than Snack, put him ahead of Urouge, so if that's the case, then he is stronger than him as a result.

Kidd hasn't so much feats though and attracting metal is the issue. What if they are fighting somewhere without it and also it takes a bit for them to come to him, which with Sanji's speed he dashes at him and knocks him down hard with no problem. Kidd seems to relies a bit on his DF than using other methods so if that the case, Sanji would blitz him and he won't be fast enough to defend for long at all.

Hawkins won't last much longer with Sanji unlike Zoro. Fire burns straws and disintegrate them, thus doing more damage and hurting him more and his lives while Zoro just slices and Hawkins have time to replenish and regenerate straws. As I said, cutting them compare to burning them is not same attirubte and the latter is more affected as there is a saying with burning straws anyway.

Apoo have to sing and dance for it to work. In the fight Kizaru just stood there and let him do all that until that attack goes and happen. Sanji would blitz him and won't give him attention on his performance over that at all.

X-Drake...So? He is a Zoan. Sanji faces Zoans before as Jabra is one of them. That doesn't mean anything and again weaponry means nothing as he face others with weapons before and it won't stop him fighting them (Plus don't T-Rex have short and stubby arms? How would he use the axes :teehee?). Would be a interesting encounter, but again nothing he can't handle as he cook and fight wild beasts before and not first time facing Zoan users.

As of right now, the ones who he can't beat are Luffy, Blackbeard, Law, and Bonney. Still need see more feats for Kidd and Killer before we can put them on record and Zoro is his equal so he would change nothing between them. Right now, Sanji has a lot of things to show and he can show more as we have not seen all his kicking techniques, Haki, Diamble Jamble techniques, and RS. All that together, he is actually probably the more potential and powers out of majority, if not all of them. He has the feats and power to showcased against them for sure.
 
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M3J

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I actually wanna see Sanji fight with knives again, that'd be cool and probably necessary in the land of samurais.
 

King Moe

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I actually wanna see Sanji fight with knives again, that'd be cool and probably necessary in the land of samurais.
He can and with this arc, might be possibly. We can expect a lot if Sanji since this arc us fight dominated more.
 

nik87

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Since when armed people been a issue for Sanji?
Its an issue for everyone, not just for Sanji. We saw it with Luffy vs Cracker/Katakuri. We saw that an admiral chose to use weapon against a swordsman isntead of going barehanded, we saw Croc parrying Mihawk while Jinbe was hopeless... It's not for debate. If you dont understand that his brawls with Zoro are a joke then why do you even bother? He stands no chance against Zoro and Killer.
Bege has lots of tricks nullifying Sanji's combat, everything in his close area gets reduced in size so Sanji's micro kicks cant put a scratch on Bege.
Bonney has the ability to turn people into kids. What is baby Sanji gonna do lol...
Urogue is probably top when it comes to raw power, second only maybe to Luffy, just maybe since its his DF that allows him to power up and metal pole to swing.
If no other metal is around Kidd will take Sanji's lighter and shoot him full of holes with his own lighter? And assuming no metal available is a big stretch.
Sanji's fire wont burn base form Hawkins so its useless and that big doll with giant sword will force Sanji on defense. Even if Hawkins goes into straw form Sanji has to kill him 10 times first before doing anything to him, same like everyone else.
Just because we saw one attack from Apoo doesnt mean all of his attacks like that. If that was true he wouldnt have made it into New World at all.
X-Drake like all Zoans has amplified strength and unlike Jabra he is a captain pirate from NW and he should have more forms, not just t-rex. Weapons only put him ahead of Sanji.

Just because we didnt see feats from some characters doesnt mean that they are weaker than Sanji, we have their ranking to assume their power. We didnt see any feats from Dragon either but we are all sure that he is a top dog, same for Gorosei.
 

King Moe

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Its an issue for everyone, not just for Sanji. We saw it with Luffy vs Cracker/Katakuri. We saw that an admiral chose to use weapon against a swordsman isntead of going barehanded, we saw Croc parrying Mihawk while Jinbe was hopeless... It's not for debate. If you dont understand that his brawls with Zoro are a joke then why do you even bother? He stands no chance against Zoro and Killer.
Bege has lots of tricks nullifying Sanji's combat, everything in his close area gets reduced in size so Sanji's micro kicks cant put a scratch on Bege.
Bonney has the ability to turn people into kids. What is baby Sanji gonna do lol...
Urogue is probably top when it comes to raw power, second only maybe to Luffy, just maybe since its his DF that allows him to power up and metal pole to swing.
If no other metal is around Kidd will take Sanji's lighter and shoot him full of holes with his own lighter? And assuming no metal available is a big stretch.
Sanji's fire wont burn base form Hawkins so its useless and that big doll with giant sword will force Sanji on defense. Even if Hawkins goes into straw form Sanji has to kill him 10 times first before doing anything to him, same like everyone else.
Just because we saw one attack from Apoo doesnt mean all of his attacks like that. If that was true he wouldnt have made it into New World at all.
X-Drake like all Zoans has amplified strength and unlike Jabra he is a captain pirate from NW and he should have more forms, not just t-rex. Weapons only put him ahead of Sanji.

Just because we didnt see feats from some characters doesnt mean that they are weaker than Sanji, we have their ranking to assume their power. We didnt see any feats from Dragon either but we are all sure that he is a top dog, same for Gorosei.
Luffy have defeated those with blades before like Kuro, Arlong, Crocodile, etc.. Saying that it's a 'weakness' is bad logic and also your argument with Jimbei vs Mihawk is countered since Jimbei fought Moria and other fighters with blades and guns. That's Mihawk, he won't go down easy and not because he has a sword. Saying blades and guns are weaknesses to those who fight bare-handed is not a good enough argument when fighters have prove to defeat opponents. It's the characters, not the weapons they have. Especially at this point everyone has Haki, so it destroy everything you said blades and such. He is equal with Zoro and Killer yet to be seen, but still beat him as well.

Sanji already know inside of Bege and outside (literally), if you think he gonna fall for his tricks then you haven't been watching how he fights and how smart he is when figuring out on countering and getting the best of someone when he fought with them like Bon-Clay Jabra, Abasolem, and so on. His tirkcs won't work and especially speed feat and strength feat, Capone won't last even for a short fight.

Bonney is a woman. Using this to say she stronger is very poor argument when we all know he can't hit women. Not because he isn't stronger. He dodge her attack and probably leave her alone since again the fight wouldn't get started at all due to him not wanting to fight a woman.

Urouge is also slow moving and while yes, he beat Snack, but not on same lvl at Luffy though and again if we going off by who he face and beat, Sanji will face Queen, who is equal to King who only succeed by Kaido. Snack wasn't the strongest of the Sweet Commanders as there were Katakuri, Smoothie, and Cracker. Going by this logic, Sanji is automatically stronger by facing Queen.

Sanji's fire can burn him down since Straws aren't that resistant to it and can get him more. Also even if Hawkins summons his dolls, Sanji won't go much after them and go for Hawkins since he can keep making them. Plus like I said, we haven't seen full power or more moves in Diamble Jamble and Haki powered and I know some moves he has that can handle his dolls if need be and still damage Hawkins greatly.

That's why until we see more, we are judging from how Apoo when he fought with Kirazu and power work and so far, it takes a bit before he hits them, so again if we going in a fight, Sanji has speed and the power to knock him around more. While yes he got stronger in 2 years, but the same argument can be made to Sanji who has a lot to still show since we never seen 100% of him.

Doesn't take away X-Drake is Zoan and Sanji face his kind before and know what to do against them. Also so far judging how he fights, in Zoan form, he is very slow and only attacks by biting or swiping his tail and with his size, Sanji can easily blitz him in that form. In his regular state, might be a bit challenging, but again nothing Sanji can't handle and bad logic to say "Oh he has axes, he will hurt Sanji with it" when I already said how weapons means nothing in a fight. We seen him break weapons with his own feet in the series. The only thing he has is the possibility of more forms, but even then it would be a stretch until we can say more. Right now, Sanji still above him in many stats.

Not saying they are very weak, they are probably strong, but Sanji is stronger which your undermining and by what you said, since we haven't seen full power of Sanji, we can't say he is weaker than them either. If Oda is going trouble with him facing with Queen potentially, we can't doubt and say he is weaker than them or won't get stronger. Just saying from my side and how we should go about judging this.
 
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you haven't been watching how he fights and how smart he is when figuring out on countering
you mean like when sanji's plan to save luffy after his win over katakuri was just........grab-and-run?
Seemed like he's not smart at all.
 

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Merry Christmas bro

Nah, Big Father is good at defending but it's not good offense wise considering it fires cannon balls (something a fighter on Sanji's calliber should have no issues with). He also barely endured two attacks from Big Mom so I wouldn't overestimate it's durability anyway.

Killer being on Zoro's level is an assumption that has no proof my guy. There's not even any guarantee that Kidd himself can beat Zoro (no, Kidd being portrayed as Luffy’s rival is not a good excuse, Zoro has been assumed to be One Piece’s Vegeta for waaaaay longer).

Putting a character up against another character isn't the same as comparing them power wise. Sanji would lose to any woman in One Piece but he's still stronger than the majority of them, including Bonney

Considering he's only a headliner, I really doubt he would last 10 minutes against a serious Luffy.

Apoo never injured Zoro. Zoro would have destroyed Hawkins if the fight was prolonged.

My man lmao.

“Way beyond sanji” is likely an overstatement lol. 'Probably' beyond Sanji is more accurate. On the Luffy rival point I just wanna point out that what Luffy's accomplished in the little time he's been in the new world and what Kidd has accomplished in the 2 years he's been in the new world are insurmountably different. Kidd is likely gonna be a beast when he gets out of jail, but I'd still have Luffy comfortably over him.

“Sanji<Supernova” is too broad of a conclusion considering the level of supernova spans from Bonney level to Luffy level. There are certain supernova that are too featless or not impressive enough to place over Sanji.
About Bege
  • He tanked more than two hits from big mom, I have the volume next to me.
  • Big mom is a yonko capable of killing an experienced giant warrior at age 5
  • If anything this feat is very positive for Bege, and Big mom punches are way stronger than anything Sanji has, this is a fact.
  • You say that bege would lose because sanji can deflect canon balls but who says that its bege's only weapons? he may have kairoseki bullets and canonballs, poison gases etc etc
  • we dont know how strong big fathers attack were because katakuri put mochi in the canons
  • People keep hyping sanji by saying that we havent seen all of his moves but the same goes for Supernova heck many were shocked at bege's performance during WCI because they percieved him as weak. dont underestimate the worst generation.
about Killer
  • The reason I put him on Zoro's level is that the supernova were portrayed as beeing the worst generation of rookies who will shake the one piece world as we know it. Simply beeing a part of the supernova warrants a minimum of strenght.
  • Seeing as both killer and zoro are the only ones under a captain yet are supernova is a testament of their strenght. Also both using sharp swords like weapon even if that doesnt mean much.
Bonney
  • Are you saying that Sanji would win against Bonney a captain of the worst generation just because they happen to be a woman?
  • Are you going to ignore Bonney's hax devil fruit?
Apoo and Hawkins
  • As a captain of the supernova Apoo ought to be very strong
  • the fact that kidd made an alliance with both of them shows that they are roughly on the same level otherwise what would be the point of making an alliance?
  • Hawkins would very probably lose against zoro in a prolonged battle, with all of his tricks he would be a pica 2.0 just way stronger (better haki and able to hurt zoro) and way smarter. I don't think that Sanji would win here and no I dont believe in the fire beats straw thing, it's been a while since sanji's diable jambe really burned anything, its become a basic spammed power up much like luffy's gear second.
about Urouge
  • nothing much to discuss here really, the almighty Ma.D Monk is already waiting for luffy at Raftel.
about Kidd
  • Once again I think that you are underestimating the worst generation no.3 (after Urouge and Luffy)
  • Kidd is weaker than Luffy i agree on that but not by as much as you imply
  • @King Moe Even with no metal Kidd has better haki and is way more durable imo so I dont see Sanji blitzing him.
 

nik87

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Luffy have defeated those with blades before like Kuro, Arlong, Crocodile, etc..
Kuro and Arlong were far weaker than Luffy. Blades are only not an issue if there is a huge gap in strength (ex. Vergo and Tashigi) otherwise weaponless combat style is at disadvantage against combat style using weapons.
Jimbei fought Moria
Like i mentioned above, huge difference in strength, Jinbe took Moriah out in a single hit, same scenario like Vergo and Tashigi.
Especially at this point everyone has Haki, so it destroy everything you said blades and such. He is equal with Zoro and Killer yet to be seen, but still beat him as well.
If you think Haki neutralizes weapon combat style you dont know what you are talking about. Sanji equal to Zoro and beating both him and Killer? Pure imagination, nothing else.
Capone won't last even for a short fight.
If you think that Supernova captain wont last against Sanji not sure if you are looking at things objectively. Bege has sphere around his body and everything that enters that sphere is reduced in size to a nail size, everything that Sanji throws at him ends up being nail size, no chance for Sanji.
He dodge her attack and probably leave her alone since again the fight wouldn't get started at all due to him not wanting to fight a woman.
Bonney turned an entire marine squad into children and you think Sanji will dodge that forever? Baby Sanji stands no chance.
if we going off by who he face and beat,
If we going by who is Sanji going to face at the end of story he might be one of the strongest characters but that doesnt mean that he is nowhere that strong currently. You are automatically assuming Sanji will win against Queen alone, headcanon. Sanji will never beat Urogue whose DF powers him up.
Sanji's fire can burn him down since Straws aren't that resistant to it and can get him more.
No matter what he does he can only take 1 life away from Hawkins at the time. Kizaru's explosion took only 1 life, so would Sanji's fire as well. If Hawkins uses the mighty nails Sanji stands no chance.
and I know some moves he has that can handle his dolls if need be and still damage Hawkins greatly.
Yeah, only you know some moves and others dont. Typical.
That's why until we see more, we are judging from how Apoo when he fought with Kirazu and power work and so far, it takes a bit before he hits them, so again if we going in a fight, Sanji has speed and the power to knock him around more. While yes he got stronger in 2 years, but the same argument can be made to Sanji who has a lot to still show since we never seen 100% of him.
Apoo never showed 100% either and I am gonna bet that he would beat Sanji even without using his DF. You seriously underestimate SN captains.
Doesn't take away X-Drake is Zoan and Sanji face his kind before and know what to do against them.
Just because Sanji faces a Zoan once he knows what to do against them all? Incredible headcanon. There is nothing to know, they are extremely powerful and X-Drake uses a sword and an axe, high potential to chop Sanji's leg off.
Right now, Sanji still above him in many stats.
Sanji's stats are ridiculous in NW, only thing good was speed and it was beaten in WCI. Sanji needs a special throne so you can put him on there.
since we haven't seen full power of Sanji, we can't say he is weaker than them either.
We ddint see anyone at 100% except Luffy. Sanji being above the tier of Supernova captains is your imagination for now.
him facing with Queen potentially
Potentially he can lose as well, potentially he can get help in that fight as well, potentially he may not fight Queen at all.
 

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Bonney is a woman. Using this to say she stronger is very poor argument when we all know he can't hit women. Not because he isn't stronger. He dodge her attack and probably leave her alone since again the fight wouldn't get started at all due to him not wanting to fight a woman.
Bonney: "What a handsome man, here have a kiss!"
Sanji: "Bonney-swaaaaaaaan"

Done. Srsly that isnt even a contest.

Sanji will face Queen, who is equal to King who only succeed by Kaido. Snack wasn't the strongest of the Sweet Commanders as there were Katakuri, Smoothie, and Cracker. Going by this logic, Sanji is automatically stronger by facing Queen.
Will face? Is there a Spoiler for that one? All afterwards is just speculation from this where we dont even have a single proof.

Sanji's fire can burn him down since Straws aren't that resistant to it and can get him more. Also even if Hawkins summons his dolls, Sanji won't go much after them and go for Hawkins since he can keep making them. Plus like I said, we haven't seen full power or more moves in Diamble Jamble and Haki powered and I know some moves he has that can handle his dolls if need be and still damage Hawkins greatly.
U see that one makes atleast a little bit sense.

But Hawkins is right now the only one i would agree that Sanji could take him.
 

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About Bege
  • He tanked more than two hits from big mom, I have the volume next to me.
  • Big mom is a yonko capable of killing an experienced giant warrior at age 5
  • If anything this feat is very positive for Bege, and Big mom punches are way stronger than anything Sanji has, this is a fact.
  • You say that bege would lose because sanji can deflect canon balls but who says that its bege's only weapons? he may have kairoseki bullets and canonballs, poison gases etc etc
  • we dont know how strong big fathers attack were because katakuri put mochi in the canons
  • People keep hyping sanji by saying that we havent seen all of his moves but the same goes for Supernova heck many were shocked at bege's performance during WCI because they percieved him as weak. dont underestimate the worst generation.
I only recall Big Mom hitting him on screen only twice. I might be wrong so might have to check that one out. Nvm, just double checked. Big Mom did land more than 2 hits on Bege. That's my bad. I'm not doubting Big Mom's strength, Big Father's durability is insanely impressive I'll give you that, I just doubt the offensive nature of it considering when it was in a desperate situation all it did was run and shoot cannonballs. If it had more to offer then that would have been the ideal situation to show it considering their lives were on the line. Just wanna point out that way more people underestimate Sanji than the supernovas.
about Killer
  • The reason I put him on Zoro's level is that the supernova were portrayed as beeing the worst generation of rookies who will shake the one piece world as we know it. Simply beeing a part of the supernova warrants a minimum of strenght.
  • Seeing as both killer and zoro are the only ones under a captain yet are supernova is a testament of their strenght. Also both using sharp swords like weapon even if that doesnt mean much.
Roger and Whitebeard both ruled their era and were the biggest rivals. But Whitebeard didn't have a second in command or anyone on his crew that was anywhere near as strong as prime Rayleigh, Roger's vice captain. Being rivals in the same era doesn't mean your crew power structure has to copy your rival crew's power structure. The straw hats dedicated their two years to training, it only makes sense that they would be a much stronger crew than the Kidd pirates.
Bonney
  • Are you saying that Sanji would win against Bonney a captain of the worst generation just because they happen to be a woman?
  • Are you going to ignore Bonney's hax devil fruit?
Lol no, I'm not saying Sanji would win because she's a woman (that's sexist). I'm saying that despite the fact that he would lose to all of them he is still stronger than most of them that we've seen and that includes Bonney. The reason I point this out is because instead of comparing Sanji's power to Bonney's power you put them in a fictional battle where obv Sanji would lose due to his woman weakness. If Bonney were a man then I would still say Sanji is stronger just based on what's been shown from both. Bonney's hax DF obviously doesn't allow her to beat all her opponents. The fact that she got rekt by BB means there's a limit to how hax her DF is. It's been shown to be effective against fodder marines, we need to see her in action more before concluding she can beat Sanji level fighters.
Apoo and Hawkins
  • As a captain of the supernova Apoo ought to be very strong
  • the fact that kidd made an alliance with both of them shows that they are roughly on the same level otherwise what would be the point of making an alliance?
  • Hawkins would very probably lose against zoro in a prolonged battle, with all of his tricks he would be a pica 2.0 just way stronger (better haki and able to hurt zoro) and way smarter. I don't think that Sanji would win here and no I dont believe in the fire beats straw thing, it's been a while since sanji's diable jambe really burned anything, its become a basic spammed power up much like luffy's gear second.
I'm not doubting that Apoo ought to be strong, but being a captain's a poor excuse for why he would beat Sanji. With that logic I could say Sanji being a member of the monster trio with Luffy and Zoro makes him automatically beat anyone that can't beat Luffy or Zoro. I doubt Apoo is exactly Kidd level just because they made an alliance. Making an alliance with someone weaker than you still has benefits. "Been a while since Sanji's fire burned anything" uhhh, last arc did he not save his overpowered family's ass just by standing on a table and burning away their restraints? Straw isn't exactly the best weapon against fire. Plus Sanji's fire isn't his only weapon, he can still beat the shit out of Hawkins until he's down to his last life. Sanji's diable jiambe being spammed actually makes me hope that he'll finally show something new.
about Urouge
  • nothing much to discuss here really, the almighty Ma.D Monk is already waiting for luffy at Raftel.
Was under the assumption that our boy Zoro would reach Raftel first after he got separated from the crew and lost.
about Kidd
  • Once again I think that you are underestimating the worst generation no.3 (after Urouge and Luffy)
  • Kidd is weaker than Luffy i agree on that but not by as much as you imply
All I did was state the facts man. Kidd accomplished next to nothing with his strength in the New World for 2 whole years while Luffy's become the 5th emperor with a massive fleet in like what, under a month? Like I said, when Kidd comes out of prison he'll likely be way stronger, but as of rn he is not impressive enough to be called Luffy's equal.
 
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People keep hyping sanji by saying that we havent seen all of his moves but the same goes for Supernova heck many were shocked at bege's performance during WCI because they percieved him as weak. dont underestimate the worst generation.
Problem is, virtually everyone but Luffy gets underestimated, especially when it comes to Luffy. Big Mom was underestimated until Luffy had difficulty against her two soldiers. The Worst Generation will be underestimated because fans want Luffy to be stronger and win even when it makes no sense, even though Kidd and Law haven't really been inferior. I'm also sure Luffy is part of why readers keep criticizing Sanji for everything and anything.

In any case, it's not fair to pit Sanji against Supernovas that we haven't seen fight yet just to claim Sanji would win or the opponent would win.
 

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Having a weapon puts you at an advantage?? Then I see why a weakened BM obliterated Jimbei then. Oh wait, he survived and was fully intact the. Countered the F*ck out of her.
Sanji defended well against judges spear too, but the technology surprised him. Just like Zoro defended well vs Hawkings but the nail ability surprised him. Simply coulda avoided that with a tornado slash if he knew
Oh wait judge’s spear didn’t put him at advantage vs BM tho lol
MFW, Akainu fought vista, not at a disadvantage in any way.

But when it comes to sanji taking on opponents of high calibre with weapons he automatically loses??
You people need to chill with your slander.

The way I see it tho. If sanji can floor oven with a nameless kick, then He’s strong enough to *challenege*[see how I didn’t say beat, so you lot don’t lose the plot] stronger opponents.
 

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Main Character should be exempt from power level discussions. They are always going to prevail and even when they lose they bounce back stronger than ever. manga logic doesnt apply to them, almost lol. It's not reasonable to compare Zoro or Sanji to Luffy.

Not that we should take away from an MC's accomplishment, but this IS their story so to expect less is your fault.

Mainly Mc's are hated on because there is a strong following from side characters and readers would feel better if another character took center stage; not realizing their character as the MC would get the same benefits as the MC they are replacing.
 

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I've not seen Luffy hated on, other than his behavior, on this forum. Problem is, as I mentioned, that his fans overestimate him too much and underestimate others constantly despite common sense/logic. If Luffy could beat Big Mom or Kaidou, then the Marines would have taken either Emperor out by now. Right now, Luffy has no accomplishment that'd put him on an Emperor level, much less be an actual fifth emperor.

In any case, Sanji is being underestimated as well. I don't know if he'd have beaten Vergo, but he wasn't in as much trouble as some claim. And against Doflamingo, we saw Luffy in the same situation who would have been killed if he didn't have Gear 4, where he could expand his body clad in haki and break the strings as result.
 

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sanji can be considered as supernova-tier , but not the top-tier supernova like Law or possibly Kidd.
 

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sanji can be considered as supernova-tier , but not the top-tier supernova like Law or possibly Kidd.
we don't know enough about the Supernova to classify them in tiers and we have no idea how to place Sanji compared to the low-mid tier ones if indeed Luffy Law and Kid are high tier

How would you break down the Supernova if Sanji was indeed a Supernova? For arguements sake...

High: Law, Kidd, Luffy, X Drake
Mid-High: Zoro, Hawkins, Urouge, Apoo, Killer
Mid-Low: Sanji, Bege
Low: Bonney



I'm guessing on alot, but they are educated guesses at best
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I've not seen Luffy hated on, other than his behavior, on this forum. Problem is, as I mentioned, that his fans over
Problem is, virtually everyone but Luffy gets underestimated, especially when it comes to Luffy. Big Mom was underestimated until Luffy had difficulty against her two soldiers. The Worst Generation will be underestimated because fans want Luffy to be stronger and win even when it makes no sense, even though Kidd and Law haven't really been inferior. I'm also sure Luffy is part of why readers keep criticizing Sanji for everything and anything.

In any case, it's not fair to pit Sanji against Supernovas that we haven't seen fight yet just to claim Sanji would win or the opponent would win.
estimate him too much and underestimate others constantly despite common sense/logic. If Luffy could beat Big Mom or Kaidou, then the Marines would have taken either Emperor out by now. Right now, Luffy has no accomplishment that'd put him on an Emperor level, much less be an actual fifth emperor.

In any case, Sanji is being underestimated as well. I don't know if he'd have beaten Vergo, but he wasn't in as much trouble as some claim. And against Doflamingo, we saw Luffy in the same situation who would have been killed if he didn't have Gear 4, where he could expand his body clad in haki and break the strings as result.
I'm also sure Luffy is part of why readers keep criticizing Sanji for everything and anything.

This is just bad analysis or whining on their part.

Valid criticisms of Luffy has nothing to do with valid criticisms of Sanji.

I haven't seen a single post using Luffy as the reason Sanji is being cast in a bad light.
 

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we don't know enough about the Supernova to classify them in tiers and we have no idea how to place Sanji compared to the low-mid tier ones if indeed Luffy Law and Kid are high tier

How would you break down the Supernova if Sanji was indeed a Supernova? For arguements sake...

High: Law, Kidd, Luffy, X Drake
Mid-High: Zoro, Hawkins, Urouge, Apoo, Killer
Mid-Low: Sanji, Bege
Low: Bonney



I'm guessing on alot, but they are educated guesses at best
Hmmm not a bad list imo... I'd probably say:

Top tier: Luffy
High tier: Law, Kidd, Urouge, Zoro (possibly Sanji depending on how well he does this arc)
Mid High tier: Sanji, Hawkins, Killer, X Drake
Mid Low tier: Bege, Apoo,
Low tier: Bonney

I'm not gonna buy into false hype, but I'm also not arrogant enough to pretend that this list is 100 percent factual and proven.
 
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