Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[King Moe]

I think your points pale to the fact that Page 1 was calling out Sanji in the first place. It's not like P1 was minding his own business.


Page 1 courted a fight and Sanji speed blitzed him.

That too. He was expecting a fight, so he is prepared for one. He just can't handle Sanji's speed and power as he original thought as its showcased.

 

[nik87]

And that is an excuse for P1 to be failing? Oh come on nik lol. Cheap shots? Because Sanji can speed blitz him? Why take away from Sanji when P1 is trash at observation?

P1 is the antagonist in this scenario, he attacked the Soba carts... Your telling me he wasn't expecting Sanji? He was literally calling out the Soba owner when Sanji first attacked him.... The second kick came after he thought Sanji was dead. How is that Sanji's fault?

Sanji speed is always highlighted but it always gets downgraded to cheap shots and it's a bad excuse...

First hit when he calls out Soba owner and last hit when he hits him from the sky are cheap shots in my book. We dont know if P1 has Observation haki at all, it's Sanji who sneaks up and hit when they are unaware of him. That doesnt fit a manly face to face combat. If the situation was reversed everyone would be like - oh but Sanji wasnt looking...
Sanji didnt speed blitz P1 even once, there is no instance of him beating P1 in speed so far. He only landed hits when P1 didnt realize the threat.
Sanji's feats are downgraded because it's so often that he has to resort to hitting opponents when they arent expecting it. WCI is proof of it.

Tell that Luffy vs Katakuri fight as Luffy needed to be faster to hit him before he can be aware. Which is why Snakeman was used against him.

There are no cheap shots in Luffy vs Katakuri fight. You lost the argument and now bring something irrelevant to the table...

A some/lot of Zoro fans apparently. They even try to justify the situation as a "win or feat" of Zoro against Hawkins from their brief fight despite outcome of how both look compare.

Yep, we are back to your usual troll replies mode, no proof or facts whatsoever. Dont bother, we know how you argue.

Only in last hit, most of it was Zoro slicing him in stone form as he ran away before catching up due to help to attack Pica who attention was on King Riku. That would take away cutting the large form since Pica was not aware of him and a cheap shot, but many still put it as feat.

The last hit is the only that matters and it was head-on. Slicing the stone statue has no effect on Pica. You fail to downplay Zoro even when you try lol.

Again, anything goes on one on one fights and doing attacks faster than your oppponemt can be aware of are not cheap. Your stretching on that too much.

Doing attacks faster than an opponent who isn't doing an attack at all? Moe please, get your facts straight.

 

[King Moe]

@Lexusflame you jump in to defend moe and accuse me of downplaying but you don't seem to have read my posts.


Is what I said exactly.

My point all along was that both fighters are on par, not downplaying anyone.

You are nitpicking the words I chosed, I said no damage for either of them, and I mean none of them was left with something broken, cut or a bloody pulp on the floor, all the damage was very light onpannel which I keep repeating since this post.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2019 ---

He blitzed Oven too, but his kicks didn't do much damage here too. I see a pattern there.

Page was screaming in pain AMD being push back while Sanji wasn't and hardly using more of his abilities and power. Not the same between them.

Also are you serious?....Oven was visibly shaken and push back by Sanji when he blitz him. The same with Page One as well. Sanji packs a lot if impact without RS. We never seen him 100%, but even him not going all out, he has shown to still do heavy damage to others.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019 ---

There are no cheap shots in Luffy vs Katakuri fight. You lost the argument and now bring something irrelevant to the table...

Yep, we are back to your usual troll replies mode, no proof or facts whatsoever. Dont bother, we know how you argue.


The last hit is the only that matters and it was head-on. Slicing the stone statue has no effect on Pica. You fail to downplay Zoro even when you try lol.

Doing attacks faster than an opponent who isn't doing an attack at all? Moe please, get your facts straight.

Nah, just you denying when it's a obvious example and fight. Dude, learn to understand facts than denied them when Oda puts them out like in that fight. Don't call others troll just because you don't like being countered in the end. Your only trolling here each time your the one saying it when we debate.

No it wasn't cause he got Pica into that position by a 'cheap shot' first from behind when he was attacking King Riku. By your logic, we can downplay that feat since he wasn't facing him head-on and Pica could have do something different if he notice him. Nice try, your not getting around this one.

'Doing attacks faster than an opponent isn't doing an attack at all?'.....Nik, please stop....Just stop....Your biased is showing so bad that me and Lexus are calling you out on it as well on Afro. Go read the fight and look at Page One on his ''attacks' and try to persuade us on how Page One 'isn't prepared' or not putting more 'action'. The reason he is losing is because Sanji is faster than him as well packing more power (Since we never seen 100% out of him) if Page One can't learn to keep up, it's like the same with Luffy vs Katakuri as a fight is a fight, no such thing as a cheap shots. If you want to add it, alright then, but then we going to have to take away cheap shots on Luffy's and Zoro's end when they were too fast for their opponents to 'predict' them now .

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Lexusflame you jump in to defend moe and accuse me of downplaying but you don't seem to have read my posts.


Is what I said exactly.

My point all along was that both fighters are on par, not downplaying anyone.

You are nitpicking the words I chosed, I said no damage for either of them, and I mean none of them was left with something broken, cut or a bloody pulp on the floor, all the damage was very light onpannel which I keep repeating since this post.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2019 ---

He blitzed Oven too, but his kicks didn't do much damage here too. I see a pattern there.

I'm not defending Moe just because we are on the same side of an arguement. He can make his own points.

My main point is that you made several points, none of which are excuse enough to take away that Sanji is so far dominating this fight.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019 ---

First hit when he calls out Soba owner and last hit when he hits him from the sky are cheap shots in my book. We dont know if P1 has Observation haki at all, it's Sanji who sneaks up and hit when they are unaware of him. That doesnt fit a manly face to face combat. If the situation was reversed everyone would be like - oh but Sanji wasnt looking...

If this is how your really feel nik we gotta end this particular debate about speed "agree to disagree"

 

[nik87]

Nah, just you denying when it's a obvious example and fight. Dude, learn to understand facts than denied them when Oda puts them out like in that fight. Don't call others troll just because you don't like being countered in the end. Your only trolling here each time your the one saying it when we debate.

You are welcome to present proof of a cheap shot in Luffy vs Katakuri fight and then we can see who is trolling. I'm waiting.

No it wasn't cause he got Pica into that position by a 'cheap shot' first from behind when he was attacking King Riku. By your logic, we can downplay that feat since he wasn't facing him head-on and Pica could have do something different if he notice him. Nice try, your not getting around this one.

Zoro defeated Pica head-on. You can call it cheap shot all you want.

'Doing attacks faster than an opponent isn't doing an attack at all?.....Nik, please stop....Just stop....Your biased is showing so bad that me and Lexus are calling you out on it as well on Afro. Go read the fight and look at Page One on his ''attacks' and try to persuade us on how Page One 'isn't prepared' or not putting more 'action'. The reason he is losing is because Sanji is faster than him as well packing more power (Since we never seen 100% out of him) if Page One can't learn to keep up, it's like the same with Luffy vs Katakuri as a fight is a fight, no such thing as a cheap shots. If you want to add it, alright then, but then we going to have to take away cheap shots on Luffy's and Zoro's end when they were too fast for their opponents to 'predict' them now .

You dont beat someone in speed who isnt speeding at all.
Manga facts show that all 3 hits which Sanji landed on P1 were when P1 wasnt aware of his presence. You can deny it but it's a fact.
You dont know if Sanji is faster than P1 because they never competed in speed, fact.
Sanji doesnt pack more power because he was the one who was sent flying through the city from an unnamed attack which he kicked, fact.
So, what arguments are there Moe-kun?

If this is how your really feel nik we gotta end this particular debate about speed "agree to disagree"

Fair enough.

 

[afromarco005]

Page was screaming in pain AMD being push back while Sanji wasn't and hardly using more of his abilities and power. Not the same between them.

Also are you serious?....Oven was visibly shaken and push back by Sanji when he blitz him. The same with Page One as well. Sanji packs a lot if impact without RS. We never seen him 100%, but even him not going all out, he has shown to still do heavy damage to others.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2019 ---

Nah, just you denying when it's a obvious example and fight. Dude, learn to understand facts than denied them when Oda puts them out like in that fight. Don't call others troll just because you don't like being countered in the end. Your only trolling here each time your the one saying it when we debate.

No it wasn't cause he got Pica into that position by a 'cheap shot' first from behind when he was attacking King Riku. By your logic, we can downplay that feat since he wasn't facing him head-on and Pica could have do something different if he notice him. Nice try, your not getting around this one.

'Doing attacks faster than an opponent isn't doing an attack at all?'.....Nik, please stop....Just stop....Your biased is showing so bad that me and Lexus are calling you out on it as well on Afro. Go read the fight and look at Page One on his ''attacks' and try to persuade us on how Page One 'isn't prepared' or not putting more 'action'. The reason he is losing is because Sanji is faster than him as well packing more power (Since we never seen 100% out of him) if Page One can't learn to keep up, it's like the same with Luffy vs Katakuri as a fight is a fight, no such thing as a cheap shots. If you want to add it, alright then, but then we going to have to take away cheap shots on Luffy's and Zoro's end when they were too fast for their opponents to 'predict' them now .

What even is "pushed back" for you guys?
I mean when sanji kicks a guy away he is pushing him back, but when the same guy retaliates and sends Sanji flying through the city it is not pushing back?

My point is that Sanji blitzed both page one and Oven and both came out without major damage.

How is Page one using more of his arsenal than Sanji?
Sanji is using his super hyped raid suit and neither of them used any named attack unless you can show me where page one used one.

And I am not even talking about the fact that we know nothing about page one's techniques, the dude showed nothing yet, if anything you guys are downplaying him.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'm just going to make a general point outside of any debates going on right now.

Saying P1 wasnt aware of Sanji so Sanji's hits shouldn't count is so ridiculous when its P1's own fault he provoked an attack. Either he can't react fast enough or has no CoO.

Page 1 is a NW Veteran who has no excuse for not being able to even sense or react to Sanji.

 

[nik87]

Saying P1 wasnt aware of Sanji so Sanji's hits shouldn't count is so ridiculous when its P1's own fault he provoked an attack. Either he can't react fast enough or has no CoO.

Page 1 is a NW Veteran who has no excuse for not being able to even sense or react to Sanji.

My bet is lack of CoO which is totally legit.
It's us who expect CoO from everyone. Has any of BM veterans shown CoO?

 

[King Moe]

What even is "pushed back" for you guys?
I mean when sanji kicks a guy away he is pushing him back, but when the same guy retaliates and sends Sanji flying through the city it is not pushing back?

My point is that Sanji blitzed both page one and Oven and both came out without major damage.

How is Page one using more of his arsenal than Sanji?
Sanji is using his super hyped raid suit and neither of them used any named attack unless you can show me where page one used one.

And I am not even talking about the fact that we know nothing about page one's techniques, the dude showed nothing yet, if anything you guys are downplaying him.

Well as Law said "As expected of a Ancient Zoan" on Page One, you would think it he wouldn't get push down to the ground with a no-name attack if he is that durable, but still did and took damage. So it shows that Sanji even when he isn't trying is doing damage on his opponents. It shows more as they continue fighting as he still isn't trying much as we have yet to see him go out still.

"No Major Damage"....Uhhh....Might want to reread the chapters Sanji hits them as with Page One screaming in pain and being push back as well a very visible Oven having a pain expression, feeling his body (especially his neck) shaken, and bleeding out of Sanji blitzing him, doesn't show that they took 'no damage at all'. Again your proving what Lexus said on you downplaying anything he does and it's hard to take you seriously as your trying to make a point in this discussion. Got to give dues when dues do as we all do it even to characters we don't like or not into much.

More using the suit as disguise than needed power as he stated before he never had problem or felt helpless on fighting him. The concern is being like Luffy and Zoro on being found out if he fights how he is. While true we haven't seen name attack from Page One, but so far looking how Drake X fought in his form, he never stated an attack in his Zoan form when attacking as shown in pre-timeskip, but still get taken down and you see effort of him trying. Same can be said for Page One as he is visibly trying if he was resort to Hybrid Mode.

Again, maybe so, but also possibilities they don't use name attacks in their modes and it doesn't mean Page One 'Isn't serious' if he is trying to kill him in the end.

 

[Pirate Queen]

My bet is lack of CoO which is totally legit.
It's us who expect CoO from everyone. Has any of BM veterans shown CoO?

I understand that but just because he doesnt have a means to counter Sanji's speed isn't valid enough to downplay Sanji's accomplishment.

It just means P1 isnt good enough or doesnt have the means to counter an all out assault from Sanji.

If Sanji does win this, the excuse is just going to be "well P1 clearly didnt have CoO and that's why he lost" and that is troll logic at best.

You could literally use that logic to disregard every notable feat in this manga and that's ridicuouls.

If P1 loses it will be because he wasnt good enough. It's really that simple

 

[King Moe]

You are welcome to present proof of a cheap shot in Luffy vs Katakuri fight and then we can see who is trolling. I'm waiting.


Zoro defeated Pica head-on. You can call it cheap shot all you want.


You dont beat someone in speed who isnt speeding at all.
Manga facts show that all 3 hits which Sanji landed on P1 were when P1 wasnt aware of his presence. You can deny it but it's a fact.
You dont know if Sanji is faster than P1 because they never competed in speed, fact.
Sanji doesnt pack more power because he was the one who was sent flying through the city from an unnamed attack which he kicked, fact.
So, what arguments are there Moe-kun?

Proof? Dude, have you not seen manga/anime? Don't even try to denied this as your making yourself look more unreasonable by each post.

Nah, 'cheap shots' majorly like in their first encounter, then second encounter, and then how he cut down his giant form with help. He only got face to face when he corner him, but the fight was just him chasing around cutting rocks and taking surprise attacks at him to be quicker on hitting him before he gets away. So again by your logic, we can now detract this being a feat until Zoro have a fight where it's a true face to face without running away from both sides.

Page One is speeding, didn't you see his first attack in Zoan Mode charging at Sanji before Sanji speed away faster than him? Dude, your not winning this debate on it. Fight is a fight as he call Sanji out and was expecting him. Doesn't matter if his body was turn the other away about it. Also 2nd hit, he notice a presence as you look at his eye before getting hit down. So your argument saying he not noticing is falling apart man. Also you do realize Sanji was talking about the suit and checking it out as well still giving no name kicks, right? Your acting as if Sanji is at full power right now, when he isn't. So pushing him back is nothing, but whats more is that he is pushing Page One back who is clearly trying a lot more than Sanji is.

Idk, you tell me as you can't seem to understand even when Lexus is also posting at your response too. We are just saying what is true.

 

[nik87]

I understand that but just because he doesnt have a means to counter Sanji's speed isn't valid enough to downplay Sanji's accomplishment.

That's the thing. Sanji's speed is not the issue here at all. The problem is that P1 was unaware of him for all 3 hits. Not a speed issue.

It just means P1 isnt good enough or doesnt have the means to counter an all out assault from Sanji.

It's not an all-out assault...

If Sanji lands one head-on devastating hit that P1 saw coming I'll gladly acknowledge it. Hitting him when he isnt aware of him I cant acknowledge...

 

[afromarco005]

Well as Law said "As expected of a Ancient Zoan" on Page One, you would think it he wouldn't get push down to the ground with a no-name attack if he is that durable, but still did and took damage. So it shows that Sanji even when he isn't trying is doing damage on his opponents. It shows more as they continue fighting as he still isn't trying much as we have yet to see him go out still.

"No Major Damage"....Uhhh....Might want to reread the chapters Sanji hits them as with Page One screaming in pain and being push back as well a very visible Oven having a pain expression, feeling his body (especially his neck) shaken, and bleeding out of Sanji blitzing him, doesn't show that they took 'no damage at all'. Again your proving what Lexus said on you downplaying anything he does and it's hard to take you seriously as your trying to make a point in this discussion. Got to give dues when dues do as we all do it even to characters we don't like or not into much.

More using the suit as disguise than needed power as he stated before he never had problem or felt helpless on fighting him. The concern is being like Luffy and Zoro on being found out if he fights how he is. While true we haven't seen name attack from Page One, but so far looking how Drake X fought in his form, he never stated an attack in his Zoan form when attacking as shown in pre-timeskip, but still get taken down and you see effort of him trying. Same can be said for Page One as he is visibly trying if he was resort to Hybrid Mode.

Again, maybe so, but also possibilities they don't use name attacks in their modes and it doesn't mean Page One 'Isn't serious' if he is trying to kill him in the end.

Sigh you didn't answer my question, what is "pushing back" to you? It seems that two characters doing the exact same thing (sending the other flying) is considered pushing back when it's done by one of them and not when its the other?

Page one is visibly trying what? he tried to bite then swing his arm once to hit sanji how is that trying?
Common guys lets be real now, neither Sanji or Savage tried in this fight and unless you are downplaying Savage's feats you must admit that he is much closer to sanji than what you imply.

 

[nik87]

Proof? Dude, have you not seen manga/anime? Don't even try to denied this as your making yourself look more unreasonable by each post.

Yes, proof. Give me a single one cheap shot. And stick to Manga. Either present a proof of a cheap shot or acknowledge yourself as a troll.

Nah, 'cheap shots' majorly like in their first encounter, then second encounter, and then how he cut down his giant form with help. He only got face to face when he corner him, but the fight was just him chasing around cutting rocks and taking surprise attacks at him to be quicker on hitting him before he gets away. So again by your logic, we can now detract this being a feat until Zoro have a fight where it's a true face to face without running away from both sides.

Cornering him can be argued as a cheap shot, sure. Landing a single strike on his real body and taking him out is not a cheap shot. Pica even prepared and fully coated into CoA and took a swing at Zoro.

Page One is speeding, didn't you see his first attack in Zoan Mode charging at Sanji before Sanji speed away faster than him? Dude, your not winning this debate on it. Fight is a fight as he call Sanji out and was expecting him. Doesn't matter if his body was turn the other away about it. Also 2nd hit, he notice a presence as you look at his eye before getting hit down. So your argument saying he not noticing is falling apart man. Also you do realize Sanji was talking about the suit and checking it out as well still giving no name kicks, right? Your acting as if Sanji is at full power right now, when he isn't. So pushing him back is nothing, but whats more is that he is pushing Page One back who is clearly trying a lot more than Sanji is.

His first attack isnt charging at Sanji, it's bitting. And it's a matter of invisibility, not a speed. How often do they encounter an invisible human to count on that? Dont be ridiculous.
He called out a soba stand owner, he didnt call out Vinsmoke Sanji.
Sanji is not at full power but that goes the same for P1. It's you who's mixing stuff up. None of them used a named attack so far. Pushing him back with an unnamed attack while being kicked by an unnamed attack means P1 strength > Sanji strength. From what we see P1 is barely trying as well.

 

[King Moe]

Sigh you didn't answer my question, what is "pushing back" to you? It seems that two characters doing the exact same thing (sending the other flying) is considered pushing back when it's done by one of them and not when its the other?

Page one is visibly trying what? he tried to bite then swing his arm once to hit sanji how is that trying?
Common guys lets be real now, neither Sanji or Savage tried in this fight and unless you are downplaying Savage's feats you must admit that he is much closer to sanji than what you imply.

Depends on the situation, but I majorly see pushing back as a way of being physical stronger than the person your pushing back and able to damage possibly through it. Not really the same as you see Page each time he send flying, he hollows in pain and shown visible in pain from his face, Sanji hasn't shown that at all so it's not the same at all.

He was order to 'kill' his target. He is assassin, so yeah, he is trying against Sanji especially as shown as he went into Hybrid Mode, show him being more serious. You saying he 'isn't serious or not trying' is illogical still, Afro. Not downplaying him as he is a tough threat, but it doesn't push away the fact he is trying more compare to Sanji who having a easier time still.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 15, 2019 ---

Yes, proof. Give me a single one cheap shot. And stick to Manga. Either present a proof of a cheap shot or acknowledge yourself as a troll.

Cornering him can be argued as a cheap shot, sure. Landing a single strike on his real body and taking him out is not a cheap shot. Pica even prepared and fully coated into CoA and took a swing at Zoro.

His first attack isnt charging at Sanji, it's bitting. And it's a matter of invisibility, not a speed. How often do they encounter an invisible human to count on that? Dont be ridiculous.
He called out a soba stand owner, he didnt call out Vinsmoke Sanji.
Sanji is not at full power but that goes the same for P1. It's you who's mixing stuff up. None of them used a named attack so far. Pushing him back with an unnamed attack while being kicked by an unnamed attack means P1 strength > Sanji strength. From what we see P1 is barely trying as well.

Just you acting the troll when me, Lexus, and dude are against you on your claims, nice try. Look back at the fight in both anime and manga and see the attacks Luffy hit him with especially in Snakeman that you classify as 'cheap shots' since it's not to his face ward.

Only as last hit, majorly of the fight was sneak attacks and Zoro having to be faster to catch him and be unpredictable and his biggest moment is the biggest 'cheap shot' as again while Pica was going to kill Riku, he slice him from behind. Say what you will, but by your logic, we can now dmimished that feat of Zoro since he didn't face Pica when he did that. So either you accept it as that since now 'cheap shots' are 'bad' in a fight to your mind or be a hypocrite despite what you said before. Just saying as your not making more sense on your side.

Being invisible doesn't mean anything if you stay at once place. So Sanji dodge and turn invisible so not get hit. Pretty sure since they are Zoan, there could be animals they based on that can turn invisible or take appearance of background like a Chameleon for one. Animals do have advantage for camouflage for some, so not really first time as we can't say when there is a diverse group of Zoans on Kaido's side.

That argument means nothing as he still expected the fight. It's clear many wouldn't challenge Kaido's and Orochi's reign over them, so for someone to go against them, that person need to be strong to get Top 6 Headliner. He still should be more prepare for anything as he is a veteran fighter after all in the crew. While true both haven't hit their full power, Page One is hitting his closer compare to Sanji as he still effortless handling him still. "Barely trying" yet he changes to Hybrid Mode and we all have experience once Zoans go into that mode, it's usually their more diverse and serious mode as remember Enies Lobby?

Your argument saying he isn't trying is falling apart still. As well saying P1 strength is stronger when Sanji still isn't trying and is more focus on testing the suits as clearly shown. You guys can't seem to give dues when dues matter and it's sad, but can't be surprise when you guys are longtime 'detractors' if he even does anything good and you let many slide for a certain 'sword' character no matter the issue. Denied all you want, but Oda is still going to prove you guys wrong if you can't learn to accept it on your end.

 

[nik87]

Just you acting the troll when me, Lexus, and dude are against you on your claims, nice try. Look back at the fight in both anime and manga and see the attacks Luffy hit him with especially in Snakeman that you classify as 'cheap shots' since it's not to his face ward.

2 things Moe-kun :
1. You don't even know what a cheap shot is. There are no cheap shots in Luffy vs Katakuri fight.
2. Whether Lexus and thedude disagree with my opinion it doesn't make your arguments look better.

Only as last hit, majorly of the fight was sneak attacks and Zoro having to be faster to catch him and be unpredictable and his biggest moment is the biggest 'cheap shot' as again while Pica was going to kill Riku, he slice him from behind. Say what you will, but by your logic, we can now dmimished that feat of Zoro since he didn't face Pica when he did that. So either you accept it as that since now 'cheap shots' are 'bad' in a fight to your mind or be a hypocrite despite what you said before. Just saying as your not making more sense on your side.

Again, you don't know what a cheap shot is. Only the first hit on the giant statue was a cheap shot. Yes, cheap shots are bad and it's only diminishing Sanji's results since he uses cheap shots all the time.

Being invisible doesn't mean anything if you stay at once place. So Sanji dodge and turn invisible so not get hit. Pretty sure since they are Zoan, there could be animals they based on that can turn invisible or take appearance of background like a Chameleon for one. Animals do have advantage for camouflage for some, so not really first time as we can't say when there is a diverse group of Zoans on Kaido's side.

Soba stand owner is not an animal from who he could have expected camouflage or anything similar. Moe-kun what nonsense are you talking?

That argument means nothing as he still expected the fight. It's clear many wouldn't challenge Kaido's and Orochi's reign over them, so for someone to go against them, that person need to be strong to get Top 6 Headliner. He still should be more prepare for anything as he is a veteran fighter after all in the crew. While true both haven't hit their full power, Page One is hitting his closer compare to Sanji as he still effortless handling him still. "Barely trying" yet he changes to Hybrid Mode and we all have experience once Zoans go into that mode, it's usually their more diverse and serious mode as remember Enies Lobby?

It means a lot Moe-kun. It's not the same to call out Buggy for a fight and to call out Kaido for a fight.
P1 tried once to bite Sanji and once he sent him flying through the city while Sanji attacked 4 times. 4 vs 2, it's obvious whos trying harder.

Your argument saying he isn't trying is falling apart still. As well saying P1 strength is stronger when Sanji still isn't trying and is more focus on testing the suits as clearly shown. You guys can't seem to give dues when dues matter and it's sad, but can't be surprise when you guys are longtime 'detractors' if he even does anything good and you let many slide for a certain 'sword' character no matter the issue. Denied all you want, but Oda is still going to prove you guys wrong if you can't learn to accept it on your end.

The only argument that is falling apart is yours, as usual. You are claiming that Sanji is physically stronger than legit combatant whose Devil Fruit boosts his physical strength even after seeing that he sent Sanji flying effortlessly through the city with a single swing of unnamed attack.

 

[afromarco005]

Depends on the situation, but I majorly see pushing back as a way of being physical stronger than the person your pushing back and able to damage possibly through it. Not really the same as you see Page each time he send flying, he hollows in pain and shown visible in pain from his face, Sanji hasn't shown that at all so it's not the same at all.

He was order to 'kill' his target. He is assassin, so yeah, he is trying against Sanji especially as shown as he went into Hybrid Mode, show him being more serious. You saying he 'isn't serious or not trying' is illogical still, Afro. Not downplaying him as he is a tough threat, but it doesn't push away the fact he is trying more compare to Sanji who having a easier time still.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 15, 2019 ---

Just you acting the troll when me, Lexus, and dude are against you on your claims, nice try. Look back at the fight in both anime and manga and see the attacks Luffy hit him with especially in Snakeman that you classify as 'cheap shots' since it's not to his face ward.

Only as last hit, majorly of the fight was sneak attacks and Zoro having to be faster to catch him and be unpredictable and his biggest moment is the biggest 'cheap shot' as again while Pica was going to kill Riku, he slice him from behind. Say what you will, but by your logic, we can now dmimished that feat of Zoro since he didn't face Pica when he did that. So either you accept it as that since now 'cheap shots' are 'bad' in a fight to your mind or be a hypocrite despite what you said before. Just saying as your not making more sense on your side.

Being invisible doesn't mean anything if you stay at once place. So Sanji dodge and turn invisible so not get hit. Pretty sure since they are Zoan, there could be animals they based on that can turn invisible or take appearance of background like a Chameleon for one. Animals do have advantage for camouflage for some, so not really first time as we can't say when there is a diverse group of Zoans on Kaido's side.

That argument means nothing as he still expected the fight. It's clear many wouldn't challenge Kaido's and Orochi's reign over them, so for someone to go against them, that person need to be strong to get Top 6 Headliner. He still should be more prepare for anything as he is a veteran fighter after all in the crew. While true both haven't hit their full power, Page One is hitting his closer compare to Sanji as he still effortless handling him still. "Barely trying" yet he changes to Hybrid Mode and we all have experience once Zoans go into that mode, it's usually their more diverse and serious mode as remember Enies Lobby?

Your argument saying he isn't trying is falling apart still. As well saying P1 strength is stronger when Sanji still isn't trying and is more focus on testing the suits as clearly shown. You guys can't seem to give dues when dues matter and it's sad, but can't be surprise when you guys are longtime 'detractors' if he even does anything good and you let many slide for a certain 'sword' character no matter the issue. Denied all you want, but Oda is still going to prove you guys wrong if you can't learn to accept it on your end.

Try to forget that he is fighting sanji for a minute, and think about it, Page one was sent to kill some dude who is causing trouble for kyoshiro's mobs.
He doesn't know who he is going up against and he probably thought that he would be fighting the usual thugs that he is used to dispose of quickly with no efforts.

So when he shows up, he calls out for his target but is not taking this seriously (he eats fruits and shit) then he is kicked by sanji and gets up like nothing happened, at this point he is still not one bit serious and keep asking stuff like "who is this guy" cause he has no clue.

Then Sanji puts the suit on and Savage tries to bite him another proof that he aint trying... gets sent flying and finally starts to warm up and turns into his hybrid form and sends him flying too with just one mighty swing of his dino arms, a no name attack.
Now Savage thinks he killed Sanji and drops his guard trying to see where the body ended up, little did he know that Sanji was ok thanks to his raid suit and the dude strikes him from the sky with a surprise attack.

Thats all we saw from the fight, so as I keep repeating they seemed on par to me, Sanji with an edge in the speed department, and Savage in the strenght department, it was not an overwhelming beat up from sanji as you imply.
Page showed us that he is no joke and able to hold his own pretty well definitly deserves a spot in the top 10 of Kaido's boys, so please stop underestimating him and making light of his feats.

Respecting one character doesnt mean you automatically have to put down another, nor does it mean that said character is beyond criticizm I am just calling them as I see them.

 

[Aizen]

Moderator Notice:
Tone down on the Power level discussions guys. There is a thread for that, this is for more generalized Sanji discussion. Also, keep in mind to stay respectful of each other's views.~ Aizen

 

[nik87]

@afromarco005 Well said.

Try to forget that he is fighting sanji for a minute, and think about it, Page one was sent to kill some dude who is causing trouble for kyoshiro's mobs.
He doesn't know who he is going up against and he probably thought that he would be fighting the usual thugs that he is used to dispose of quickly with no efforts.

This exactly. Even when Dinosaur army appeared, Drake asked why did we have to come all the way here/why did they ask for us specifically and P1's answer was For show of course/to set an example.
They had no clue who the soba stand owner is and still don't know thus not taking him serious one bit. Only when P1 went into the hybrid form he saw that it's not just some random soba stand owner and said "Invisible human? This is getting weirder and weirder."
And like you said, even in hybrid form, he drops his guard since he still underestimated soba stand owner and thought he was dead...

 

[afromarco005]

@King Moe being the majority does not mean that you are right, far from it, heck the majority thought that the earth was flat and made fun of the few erudites who claimed it was spherical.
So please let's drop the "majority" argument Moe .