Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[desin24]

It's a story written by an author with specific intent and a vision behind it. He lets us see what he wants and when he wants us to see it. If Oda wanted to make a point about Sanii's powerscaling he would have done so.
Sanji's kick against Drake is absolutely irrelevant in regards to the story Oda wants to tell. It's just not the focus. If you want to draw this conclusion then so be it but let's leave it at that. That panel is clearly not a sufficient basis for any kind of assessment except Sanji and Drake are probably around the same powerlevel where none can easily curbstomp the other.

 

[Shasha23]

It's a story written by an author with specific intent and a vision behind it. He lets us see what he wants and when he wants us to see it. If Oda wanted to make a point about Sanii's powerscaling he would have done so.
Sanji's kick against Drake is absolutely irrelevant in regards to the story Oda wants to tell. It's just not the focus. If you want to draw this conclusion then so be it but let's leave it at that. That panel is clearly not a sufficient basis for any kind of assessment except Sanji and Drake are probably around the same powerlevel where none can easily curbstomp the other.

It is not irrelevant in anyway, and also your drawing conclusions by incorrectly assuming they are in the same power level when Oda has made it quite clear out of all the worst generation excluding Luffy and Zoro we should all expect great things from Kid, Drake and Blackbeard. You cant take a high tone with someone and then turn around and draw wild inaccurate claims about Sanji being as strong as Drake.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2019 ---

Reply to that other guy :

The panel clearly shows contact was made with the drawn effects and that after the attack Sanji has moved away a bit from Drakes head, maybe you didnt understand why Sanji attacked Drake but it was to stop him from doing a follow up attack on him which worked but has shown base Sanji to be unable to damage Drake, which is to be expected given Drake is a top tier supernova

 

[M3J]

It's a story written by an author with specific intent and a vision behind it. He lets us see what he wants and when he wants us to see it. If Oda wanted to make a point about Sanii's powerscaling he would have done so.
Sanji's kick against Drake is absolutely irrelevant in regards to the story Oda wants to tell. It's just not the focus. If you want to draw this conclusion then so be it but let's leave it at that. That panel is clearly not a sufficient basis for any kind of assessment except Sanji and Drake are probably around the same powerlevel where none can easily curbstomp the other.

Exactly. One panel showing contact and nothing else has no conclusion other than Sanji attacked Drake. I hope we see or learn what happened in that particular encounter this week.

 

[thedude]

it's weird for people to be saying Sanji is weak when he easily dispatched one of Kaido's top 9 fighters. This is the equivalent of him easily beating someone like Oven (who he hurt and hit so fast Oven didn't even know where it came from). Using one panel of one kick to try to now put him down as "weak" is beyond dumb. We already know from a few chapters back he is a threat to the flying 6, Kaidos 6 strongest (non-commander) fighters. That is the level of Sanji and Zoro right now. Soon enough they'll be on the level of a Yonko commander, because Luffy will be a Yonko (or above, I don't think he'll ever really be one of them, it's not something he cares about).


(and i can't believe there is still debate if he uses Haki. Luffy said he did. Judge said he did. He uses it, it's in the damn manga!)

 

[Pirate Queen]

it's weird for people to be saying Sanji is weak when he easily dispatched one of Kaido's top 9 fighters. This is the equivalent of him easily beating someone like Oven (who he hurt and hit so fast Oven didn't even know where it came from). Using one panel of one kick to try to now put him down as "weak" is beyond dumb. We already know from a few chapters back he is a threat to the flying 6, Kaidos 6 strongest (non-commander) fighters. That is the level of Sanji and Zoro right now. Soon enough they'll be on the level of a Yonko commander, because Luffy will be a Yonko (or above, I don't think he'll ever really be one of them, it's not something he cares about).


(and i can't believe there is still debate if he uses Haki. Luffy said he did. Judge said he did. He uses it, it's in the damn manga!)

We know he can use haki. It's not concrete than he knows CoA:Hardening (Black haki)

 

[thedude]

We know he can use haki. It's not concrete than he knows CoA:Hardening (Black haki)

I mean...isn't that one of the only 2 ways Haki has been shown? Hardening or the new one Luffy is trying. Is there a third that everyone is arguing to be the one he knows?

 

[King Moe]

We know he can use haki. It's not concrete than he knows CoA:Hardening (Black haki)

All I am saying It's same shading as with Zoro's when fighting with Kyoshiro. Don't think Oda will mess it up like that especially didn't he deflect bullets? Don't you need to harden his skin for that?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I mean...isn't that one of the only 2 ways Haki has been shown? Hardening or the new one Luffy is trying. Is there a third that everyone is arguing to be the one he knows?

No apparently there are 3

1.When you utilize CoA, it places an invisible armor around you

2. CoA can develop further into "Black" visible haki that is harder than basic utilization of CoA

3. The invisible "explosive" burst of CoA that Luffy is currently learning



There are 2 arguements going on apparently

Can Sanji use CoA? Yes he can

Can Sanji use CoA:Hardening? Still debatable. Oda has not colored Sanji's leg like he usually does when clarifying someone uses CoA:Hardening (that black shine/glazed look) what we've seen it can easily be shading, which I am personally leaning on.

There is NOTHING stopping Oda from showing Sanji up close using Hardening, yet he doesnt....

 

[Brandish μ]

How did we interpret the scene with Vergo vs Sanji? I took that situation as Sanji can only use hardening at a basic level or not at all.

In any case, it's something he has to have, either now or soon, and be one of the best users of it. It just makes sense for 'Black' leg Sanji to be highly skilled with this type of Haki, imo.

The feats themselves should come whenever Oda decides to give the whole crew some all-out fights. Until then I kind of agree with those saying we haven't seen him do it.

 

[thedude]

No apparently there are 3

1.When you utilize CoA, it places an invisible armor around you

2. CoA can develop further into "Black" visible haki that is harder than basic utilization of CoA

3. The invisible "explosive" burst of CoA that Luffy is currently learning



There are 2 arguements going on apparently

Can Sanji use CoA? Yes he can

Can Sanji use CoA:Hardening? Still debatable. Oda has not colored Sanji's leg like he usually does when clarifying someone uses CoA:Hardening (that black shine/glazed look) what we've seen it can easily be shading, which I am personally leaning on.

There is NOTHING stopping Oda from showing Sanji up close using Hardening, yet he doesnt....

Hm....I think there being 3 forms is more a theory and not in the manga itself. I think it's just the two, the forcefield and invisible armor is the same thing. To date, Luffy never showed that one. The hardening is the second. That is the one that allows you to touch a logia. Pre-timeskip things were just drawn different, oda didn't start doing the black hardening until the timeskip, likely because he wanted to be able to distinguish how haki looked.

That's what I think anyway. There is nothing to contradict that in the actual manga, so until proven otherwise, I think it's obvious that Sanji is using the same haki as everyone else has shown.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How did we interpret the scene with Vergo vs Sanji? I took that situation as Sanji can only use hardening at a basic level or not at all.

In any case, it's something he has to have, either now or soon, and be one of the best users of it. It just makes sense for 'Black' leg Sanji to be highly skilled with this type of Haki, imo.

The feats themselves should come whenever Oda decides to give the whole crew some all-out fights. Until then I kind of agree with those saying we haven't seen him do it.

With Sanji, it SHOULD be hard to see if he is using BLACK haki, because his pants are black.

But Oda shows a shine to BLACK HAKI even on black surfaces. He has not done so with Sanji yet.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 5, 2019 ---

Hm....I think there being 3 forms is more a theory and not in the manga itself. I think it's just the two, the forcefield and invisible armor is the same thing. To date, Luffy never showed that one. The hardening is the second. That is the one that allows you to touch a logia. Pre-timeskip things were just drawn different, oda didn't start doing the black hardening until the timeskip, likely because he wanted to be able to distinguish how haki looked.

That's what I think anyway. There is nothing to contradict that in the actual manga, so until proven otherwise, I think it's obvious that Sanji is using the same haki as everyone else has shown.

I think this "bursting" CoA that Luffy is learning is Advanced regular CoA and BLACK CoA is just a hardened version of regular CoA

 

[M3J]

No apparently there are 3

1.When you utilize CoA, it places an invisible armor around you

2. CoA can develop further into "Black" visible haki that is harder than basic utilization of CoA

3. The invisible "explosive" burst of CoA that Luffy is currently learning



There are 2 arguements going on apparently

Can Sanji use CoA? Yes he can

Can Sanji use CoA:Hardening? Still debatable. Oda has not colored Sanji's leg like he usually does when clarifying someone uses CoA:Hardening (that black shine/glazed look) what we've seen it can easily be shading, which I am personally leaning on.

There is NOTHING stopping Oda from showing Sanji up close using Hardening, yet he doesnt....

Did Judge use black haki on his bento sword or whatever it's called when Sanji blocked it and was praised for knowing haki?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Did Judge use black haki on his bento sword or whatever it's called when Sanji blocked it and was praised for knowing haki?

I would have to reread the chapter. Cant say from memory, but if i recall correctly... Sanji used CoA(non black version) and Jujdge praised him for just simply knowing Haki

The Germa 66 have a low opinion of Sanji lol

 

[TitaniumOxide]

If you think about it, the way Sanji performed as opposed to his siblings when they were younger, I'd not have high opinions of Sanji either if I was Judge. Later Sanji proved himself to Judge and straight up grabbed all his deserved respect out of thin air all the while looking down at his bullies. The way Sanji shows his smarts is a quality even beyond his capabilties with CoA. All the way back in Alabasta he was shown to be calculative and cunning, not just your average chef making creme brulee or steaks. In fact, if he wasn't smart, there would be absolutely no way for him to make a cake like that.

It is Judge's miscalculations that he did not see the true quality behind his son. Yeah Sanji can fight but his backstory shows that his compassion and cleverness is a force to be reckoned with. I think that is what Oda wants by no explicitly showing Sanji with better Haki, making us debate and whatnot. He wants us to debate so we can see how dumb it is that we spend so much time on if he has black CoA that we eventually go oh right, Sanji made big mom hallucinate. The truth is, he does things that to us may seem trivial like making food but what the hell would you do if no one made you food and you cannot make good food yourself? Remember that shit Luffy threw together? The crew was at a loss for words. It may be funny but it goes to show how important each and every person is on the crew. There is a old chinese proverb that goes something like this: a single chopstick is easy to snap. But if you have a bundle, the strength will multiply. Something like that lol. This crew needs Sanji to be apart of the bundle and show his strength. And show it he consistently have by cooking, cunning, and compassionate. The triple Cs!

But take it how you will, I found 2 pages that show Sanji's leg go from diable jambe to just black when...it should have stayed glowy and white if it was just regular CoA + Diable Jambe. The only good observation I can make here is that the foot is no longer on fire when his kick lands on Judge's spear as if Diable Jambe turned off. Take it how you will. The pages are below, I cannot post snippets at the moments
https://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece---833?id=320613#19
https://kissmanga.com/Manga/One-Piece/One-Piece---833?id=320613#20

 

[hokageji]

Did not know ice was related to Brook's devil fruit though, I thought it was part of his skill.

I think it was confirmed in SBS or something like that.

Between Brook and Zoro, I wonder who the better swordsman is. Not strength wise, skill wise.

If Brook and Zoro were equally strong, who would win?

You also made a point somewhere that Oda should show us more swordship styles.. Brooks style is actually a bit unique in that, but its mostly fencing while Zoro's is samuraish.
Regarding who's better, I think Zoro is. He beat Brooks shadow which brook couldnt but he also has exhibited way more swordsmenship skills.

Can Sanji use CoA:Hardening? Still debatable. Oda has not colored Sanji's leg like he usually does when clarifying someone uses CoA:Hardening (that black shine/glazed look) what we've seen it can easily be shading, which I am personally leaning on.

The last two chapters have shown him to be using hardening....

 

[M3J]

I would have to reread the chapter. Cant say from memory, but if i recall correctly... Sanji used CoA(non black version) and Jujdge praised him for just simply knowing Haki

The Germa 66 have a low opinion of Sanji lol

If Judge used blackening then there's a very high chance Sanji did as well.

If you think about it, the way Sanji performed as opposed to his siblings when they were younger, I'd not have high opinions of Sanji either if I was Judge. Later Sanji proved himself to Judge and straight up grabbed all his deserved respect out of thin air all the while looking down at his bullies. The way Sanji shows his smarts is a quality even beyond his capabilties with CoA. All the way back in Alabasta he was shown to be calculative and cunning, not just your average chef making creme brulee or steaks. In fact, if he wasn't smart, there would be absolutely no way for him to make a cake like that.

Without Sanji's intelligence, the Straw Hats would have been in huge trouble or done for in Alabasta or even Enies Lobby already. He's underrated, severely underrated.

 

[King Moe]

If Judge used blackening then there's a very high chance Sanji did as well.


Without Sanji's intelligence, the Straw Hats would have been in huge trouble or done for in Alabasta or even Enies Lobby already. He's underrated, severely underrated.

Looking at the spoilers, it also prove that Sanji is still one of the most durable fighters and RS doesn't really add more to his stats as he took an Full Zoan Dinosaur's Tail Slam and Sanji got right back up like it was nothing. Many even without using Haki, his natural defense his harder than some think.

Don't think his is underrated as much anymore especially lately since WCI, he been shining in combat more and from how Sanji vs Drake X, it is getting better and good.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Looking at the spoilers, it also prove that Sanji is still one of the most durable fighters and RS doesn't really add more to his stats as he took an Full Zoan Dinosaur's Tail Slam and Sanji got right back up like it was nothing. Many even without using Haki, his natural defense his harder than some think.

Don't think his is underrated as much anymore especially lately since WCI, he been shining in combat more and from how Sanji vs Drake X, it is getting better and good.

I'm really excited about this.

Hope Sanji lives up to the hype

 

[TitaniumOxide]

I gotta admit, Zoro has to be my favorite character but the truth is he is no better than Sanji and Sanji is no better than him. They all have their respective roles to fill like legs of a table. I just happen to be more partial to Zoro.

 

[hokageji]

i think Zoro would be stronger cos the story expects him to be. I like Sanji and would accept him only lightly behind.