Not just Kuroobi, but Jabra technically as he had DF Mastery over Kaku since he just ate is which made him lethal and dangerous combine with his CP9 and Haki lvl too.
Let's not get into technicalities, Kaku's doroki was shown to be higher than Jabra, albeit just slightly. If you're wanting to use this as an indication to gauge Zoro's physical strength to Sanji, then that's at least something.
There was also Vergo, Daifuku, Oven, Page One, and Drake so far being stronger opposition compare to Zoro throughout NW. He actually been facing serious threats more than people realize.
I might give you Vergo if we're looking at PH as an extension to Dressrosa, but in my opinion Vergo was a bad match up for Sanji because of his amerment proficiency. He would not have been a tougher opponent for Zoro (considering his fight with Pica, which was ridiculous in itself but let's not go there).
None of the others will count as what we're currently discussing is the crew fighting groups/crews where strength level is clearly shown. As I said above. So none opponents from WCI are then eligible in the discussion.
If you're wanting to talk about Sanji fighting strong opponents in the NW itself then I'd agree that by large his opponents have been higher calibre to Zoro's. The latter hasn't faced any real challenges in the NW or anyone I'd consider of note besides Pica (who was not a difficult fight at all and would've been much easier if he stopped hiding from Zoro) and Kamazou/Killer. The Latter if we're to gauge by how quickly he was taken out, wasn't much of an issue besides Zoro's stupidity.
Forget about Sanji vs Shiryu. It's never happening.
You think Oda would simply do the fight for the sake of being unpredictable? And disregard the fact this potential matchup would be highly unrealistic?
Sanji's not fighting King either. Unless Zoro fights someone who's clearly above King power level wise.
It's been a pattern that Oda never ever diverged from.
In an arc where SH have to take on a group of people Luffy always fights the strongest in that group. Zoro takes on the second strongest whereas Sanji fights the third strongest.
As for the whole Sanji/Jabra/Zoro/Kaku debate. One could argue that Kaku had less experience with his fruit... However, Kaku has shown so much more versatility and creativity with his DF ability compared to Jabra's straightforward, lackluster and unimaginative usage of his respective DF, that it's almost undeniable that Kaku was ultimately an overall better fighter than Jabra.
Forget about Sanji vs Shiryu. It's never happening.
You think Oda would simply do the fight for the sake of being unpredictable? And disregard the fact this potential matchup would be highly unrealistic?
Sanji's not fighting King either. Unless Zoro fights someone who's clearly above King power level wise.
It's been a pattern that Oda never ever diverged from.
In an arc where SH have to take on a group of people Luffy always fights the strongest in that group. Zoro takes on the second strongest whereas Sanji fights the third strongest.
As for the whole Sanji/Jabra/Zoro/Kaku debate. One could argue that Kaku had less experience with his fruit... However, Kaku has shown so much more versatility and creativity with his DF ability compared to Jabra's straightforward, lackluster and unimaginative usage of his respective DF, that it's almost undeniable that Kaku was ultimately an overall better fighter than Jabra.
That said, I still hope Sanji faces Queen as his major/final opponent this arc. And this alone will be huge.
I don't know what else people could wish for in this arc. To take down someone of Queen's caliber is an insanely great feat that not many characters can accomplish.
It would put Sanji above Vergo, Doflamingo, Jack, possibly even Katakuri (debatable).
And it's not like he'll stop getting stronger... I can see Sanji reaching admiral level by the end of the series.
Let's not get into technicalities, Kaku's doroki was shown to be higher than Jabra, albeit just slightly. If you're wanting to use this as an indication to gauge Zoro's physical strength to Sanji, then that's at least something.
I might give you Vergo if we're looking at PH as an extension to Dressrosa, but in my opinion Vergo was a bad match up for Sanji because of his amerment proficiency. He would not have been a tougher opponent for Zoro (considering his fight with Pica, which was ridiculous in itself but let's not go there).
None of the others will count as what we're currently discussing is the crew fighting groups/crews where strength level is clearly shown. As I said above. So none opponents from WCI are then eligible in the discussion.
If you're wanting to talk about Sanji fighting strong opponents in the NW itself then I'd agree that by large his opponents have been higher calibre to Zoro's. The latter hasn't faced any real challenges in the NW or anyone I'd consider of note besides Pica (who was not a difficult fight at all and would've been much easier if he stopped hiding from Zoro) and Kamazou/Killer. The Latter if we're to gauge by how quickly he was taken out, wasn't much of an issue besides Zoro's stupidity.
Wasn't that in human form than their Zoan forms more. Could be difference in having their Doroki gotten higher. Plus was it before Kaku ate the fruit as well?
Not really. Sanji was clearly nerf. It was shown early and call out by Usopp. He needed readjust his body. 100% Sanji probably beat Vergo, but high-Extreme difficulty. Vergo wasn't able take out nerf Sanji and kept fighting before he left in the end.
Pica not really great comparison and example. He scared of close combat and hide and seeker within his Stone. Breaking stones were child's play and pre-timeskip feats. The issue was finding his main body of his. Don't count Pica as major threat honestly and plus Zoro needed help to in the fight to capture him and destroy his body by Orlumbus and Elizabetho.
Kamazou was nerf on his end by psychological torture and different weapons. Doesn't help Zoro tied with him after the fight in the end. So yeah Zoro doesn't have serious opponent in NW much. Could get one finally in Wano arc he can finally beat, but have to see.
Though it's clear if we comparing who face higher caliber enemies, only Sanji got more challenges than he did. So not farfetch if Sanji takes on 2nd strongest at time even in same arc.
Forget about Sanji vs Shiryu. It's never happening.
You think Oda would simply do the fight for the sake of being unpredictable? And disregard the fact this potential matchup would be highly unrealistic?
Sanji's not fighting King either. Unless Zoro fights someone who's clearly above King power level wise.
It's been a pattern that Oda never ever diverged from.
In an arc where SH have to take on a group of people Luffy always fights the strongest in that group. Zoro takes on the second strongest whereas Sanji fights the third strongest.
As for the whole Sanji/Jabra/Zoro/Kaku debate. One could argue that Kaku had less experience with his fruit... However, Kaku has shown so much more versatility and creativity with his DF ability compared to Jabra's straightforward, lackluster and unimaginative usage of his respective DF, that it's almost undeniable that Kaku was ultimately an overall better fighter than Jabra.
Agree to Disagree, Pea. He can and has be unpredictable in fights. Sanji can potentially face King and Shiryu given similar traits on the most part after all. I still don't see how Zoro can face King not just because how bad he was hype tool in Wano, but also he can fly away as well. Don't want Pica 2.0 (Funny enough his silhouette before his reveal looks like him) where King is like same 'fighting style' where it's hit and run and Zoro need help again to beat him. Need fights like his pre-timeskip ones. Face to face and challenging. Sanji is only few who can fight him in the sky and get around him. Idk Zoro can do something to someone flying high speeds in the sky.
Plus he has his hands full facing Orochi or Kyoshiro first since he wants to face Orochi for revenge.
As for Shiryu, invisible fight is interesting and Sanji is the best of COO to find him before he strikes with his speed. Zoro looking to be bad match up if he doesn't retrain his COO more and Haki flexibility as if his 4 past fights in Wano show, he won't stand much to powerful opponent who can turn invisible. Again not out of realm of possibility.
Idk about that. Kaku was weird and slowish in certain instances. He didn't manage as good as Jabra who had his DF for longer time and use it efficiently and blend with his power. Jabra knew how to keep you guessing and on your feet with his speed and power while Kaku had take a bit before attacking, but you sometimes guess his moveset.
Not just Kuroobi, but Jabra technically as he had DF Mastery over Kaku since he just ate is which made him lethal and dangerous combine with his CP9 and Haki lvl too. There was also Vergo, Daifuku, Oven, Page One, and Drake so far being stronger opposition compare to Zoro throughout NW. He actually been facing serious threats more than people realize.
Now has potential to face Queen or King depending how it goes on YC lvl opponent face.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
To be unpredictable for Oda and not first time them facing weapon user and fighter user on their respective side. Can happen again in this arc and later.
No, why the fuck would Oda be unpredictable and have Sanji fight a swordsman if Sanji isn't going to use knives or swords or has superior CoA to deal with swords coated in CoA? Luffy is a possibility because he has high level CoA, but even then it's an unsure thing. Why would Sanji be an exception?
I also disagree with Zoro fighting the second strongest. He usually fights the strongest swordsman, who could be the third strongest for all we know. Matchups matter, and neither Luffy or Sanji are suited to fight swordsmen, while Zoro has to fight powerful swordsmen.
Wasn't that in human form than their Zoan forms more. Could be difference in having their Doroki gotten higher. Plus was it before Kaku ate the fruit as well?
Sanji VS Shiryu in my opinion is impossible to happen.
But Sanji VS King can be insanely good if happen!!! A blazing black flying dinosaur fighting a blazing black power rang...er, a blazing black prince in a shy battle. Only the best fight of Sanji of all time for me! But if Sanji fight Queen, I won’t be sad, he deserves to fight a monster like Queen and won fair and square
Oda have his way as otherwise he wouldn't give them invisiblity in same arc if that be boring. Probably see things in an 'invisible world' to watch them fight while it be more boring to see Zoro take him on as feel kinda Pica-like situation where Zoro dealing with another tricky opponent on his end and need help for it.
I am fine him facing Queen or King as both has potential to face him in the arc.
No, why the fuck would Oda be unpredictable and have Sanji fight a swordsman if Sanji isn't going to use knives or swords or has superior CoA to deal with swords coated in CoA? Luffy is a possibility because he has high level CoA, but even then it's an unsure thing. Why would Sanji be an exception?
I also disagree with Zoro fighting the second strongest. He usually fights the strongest swordsman, who could be the third strongest for all we know. Matchups matter, and neither Luffy or Sanji are suited to fight swordsmen, while Zoro has to fight powerful swordsmen.
Sanji's Haki is strong and shown to handle those with weapons. What do you mean? He can beat someone with weapons and it isn't the first time it happens to him. Why you think it's impossible to face someone with weapon? That's kinda illogical especially in Wano a lot of enemies have weapons. I don't see Sanji being afraid or impossible to beat someone with weapon. Oda evolved his characters so Sanji be able to take care of it the same no problem. His history help show he beat anyone weapon or no weapon.
I agree on what you said on Zoro side though, but not everytime he fights swordsman character from what we seen.
Sanji VS Shiryu in my opinion is impossible to happen.
But Sanji VS King can be insanely good if happen!!! A blazing black flying dinosaur fighting a blazing black power rang...er, a blazing black prince in a shy battle. Only the best fight of Sanji of all time for me! But if Sanji fight Queen, I won’t be sad, he deserves to fight a monster like Queen and won fair and square
Sanji's Haki is strong and shown to handle those with weapons. What do you mean? He can beat someone with weapons and it isn't the first time it happens to him. Why you think it's impossible to face someone with weapon? That's kinda illogical especially in Wano a lot of enemies have weapons. I don't see Sanji being afraid or impossible to beat someone with weapon. Oda evolved his characters so Sanji be able to take care of it the same no problem. His history help show he beat anyone weapon or no weapon.
I agree on what you said on Zoro side though, but not everytime he fights swordsman character from what we seen.
If Shiryuu is an excellent swordsman, then Sanji's haki would have to be strong enough to deal with Shiryuu's sword combined with haki, otherwise, Sanji's getting sliced and cut.
how many people did Sanji and Luffy fight that have weapons? Not all of them do or are strong or fast enough to give either a challenge with weapons.
when has Zoro's own final opponent of the arc not been a swordsman?
If Shiryuu is an excellent swordsman, then Sanji's haki would have to be strong enough to deal with Shiryuu's sword combined with haki, otherwise, Sanji's getting sliced and cut.
how many people did Sanji and Luffy fight that have weapons? Not all of them do or are strong or fast enough to give either a challenge with weapons.
when has Zoro's own final opponent of the arc not been a swordsman?
Sanji stop Giant Haki Armor Genie from cutting the ship. He won't have troubke fighting bladed opponents.
Are talking about weapons in general or swords as they face on both sides.
Many times. Nyan Brothers, Kaku technically as he fought more his body than weapons, Daz Bones is technically DF user than weapon user. Just his DF make him as sharp as weapon, Kuma, Pacifists, and so on. Timeskip opponents are sure not swordsmen either except for few, but more DF users and fighters.
Sanji stop Giant Haki Armor Genie from cutting the ship. He won't have troubke fighting bladed opponents.
Are talking about weapons in general or swords as they face on both sides.
Many times. Nyan Brothers, Kaku technically as he fought more his body than weapons, Daz Bones is technically DF user than weapon user. Just his DF make him as sharp as weapon, Kuma, Pacifists, and so on. Timeskip opponents are sure not swordsmen either except for few, but more DF users and fighters.
Sanji stop Giant Haki Armor Genie from cutting the ship. He won't have troubke fighting bladed opponents.
Are talking about weapons in general or swords as they face on both sides.
Many times. Nyan Brothers, Kaku technically as he fought more his body than weapons, Daz Bones is technically DF user than weapon user. Just his DF make him as sharp as weapon, Kuma, Pacifists, and so on. Timeskip opponents are sure not swordsmen either except for few, but more DF users and fighters.
Sanji was overpowered and thrown away by daifuku at the wedding
In the next encounter at sunny, sanji blocked a regular swing and he seemed to be in distressed, while daifuku genie laughed and doesnt seem to have any problems
Sanji can take on swordsman, but he wont fight the strong swordsman in an arc coz usually that will be given for zoro
Since Genie was covered in Haki, it presume he was using Haki in his attacks on his blade, but not Armament one. He stop it by blade easily and Daifuku was struggling to try to cut the ship when tries to strike again. Sanji fine facing swordsman or weapon user. We are in Wano. Stupid to say he be helpless as well Luffy fighting samurai when we all know it never matter to them if their enemies have weapons or not.
Not really. Just DFs that made their bodies more durable and dangerous than actual sword techniques. Not truly true swordsman on how they fight with just their body.
Zoro vs Kuma was a big fight and he lost badly and Pacifists he struggle a lot to damage one on his own and needed help on it. He has history fight non-swordsman opponents. @Lexusflame is right about him not facing true Elite Swordsman during his course of fights.
I never said Zoro doesnt have the capacity to fight Elite Swordsmen only that it's odd that despite aiming to be WSS Oda doesnt give master elite swordsmen as opponents and when Oda finally did, Kyoshiro straight toyed with him. (Que Zoro fans screeching that Zoro only had 2 swords)
Since Genie was covered in Haki, it presume he was using Haki in his attacks on his blade, but not Armament one. He stop it by blade easily and Daifuku was struggling to try to cut the ship when tries to strike again. Sanji fine facing swordsman or weapon user. We are in Wano. Stupid to say he be helpless as well Luffy fighting samurai when we all know it never matter to them if their enemies have weapons or not.
Not really. Just DFs that made their bodies more durable and dangerous than actual sword techniques. Not truly true swordsman on how they fight with just their body.
Zoro vs Kuma was a big fight and he lost badly and Pacifists he struggle a lot to damage one on his own and needed help on it. He has history fight non-swordsman opponents. @Lexusflame is right about him not facing true Elite Swordsman during his course of fights.
Doesn't look like the blade had haki, and Sanji kicked the flat side, apparently, and it kinda looks like he used haki or the black version of CoA.
It does matter. If Luffy or Sanji fought Daz Bones, they'd have lost. If either fights a fast swordsman with hardening, they'll likely lose. It's not stupid, otherwise why haven't Sanji or Luffy's enemies been swordsmen?
Kaku carries swords, so he's still a swordsman. He recently became a devil fruit user, so he opted to fight with that rather than use swords all the way.
It wasn't even much of a fight, much less a big one, Zoro was exhausted and hurt and coming off a fight against Ryuuma and Oars. Highly doubt most characters could take on one undead giant and a shichibukai in a span of few hours. Even if you consider the Pacifista and Kuma, that's still probably two out of twelve or thirteen arcs.
I never said Zoro doesnt have the capacity to fight Elite Swordsmen only that it's odd that despite aiming to be WSS Oda doesnt give master elite swordsmen as opponents and when Oda finally did, Kyoshiro straight toyed with him. (Que Zoro fans screeching that Zoro only had 2 swords)
