Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Who will be Sanji's main opponent during the Raid on Onigashima?


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Shasha23

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Without RS he is someone who cant even beat Doffy's underlings but with it he can juke it out with a yonko crew's executives and even has potential to beat a commander.
People here seriously underestimate how much the RS boosts Sanji.
 

Nie Li

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Without RS he is someone who cant even beat Doffy's underlings but with it he can juke it out with a yonko crew's executives and even has potential to beat a commander.
People here seriously underestimate how much the RS boosts Sanji.
What did Sanji do during Dressrosa? He didn't beat anybody? The only thing I remember from him was getting his ass kicked by Dofly.
 

HereNThere

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Which is another reason why I said Sanji won't rely on it as sense of power as it was never for that as it came for disguise when facing PO. his is strong his own right, but suit could be training suit for him kinda like wearing weights on your body before taking them off to be much stronger than before, but it won't be something he rely on unless he need stealth missions situations.
That's not how the suit works. It doesn't impede him in any way, it increases his durability and speed.

There is no real training he can do in the suit to increase his base strength. He can only train to increase his proficiency with the suit. Or, in a long shot, he can train himself to replicate the base enhancements of the suit. But that would just be him strengthening his regular strength, without even needing the suit.

What did Sanji do during Dressrosa? He didn't beat anybody? The only thing I remember from him was getting his ass kicked by Dofly.
Not much. He saved Viola, got kidnapped, saved the crew, fought and loss to Doffy, then he was out of the arc with Nami, Brook, Chopper, and Momo.

Doffy was his only fight, but he wasn't the only one who got his ass kicked by Doffy, so he's at least in good company. Hell, Law had intel and still got his ass kicked every time they fought.
 

Shasha23

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What did Sanji do during Dressrosa? He didn't beat anybody? The only thing I remember from him was getting his ass kicked by Dofly.
He couldn't do a thing to Vergo(Doffy's underling) and yes was also powerless vs Doffy, but with RS he low diffs Vergo and has potential to beat Doffy.
Thats why i dont get why people want him to discard the RS cause without it Sanji is pretty powerless and weak!
 

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What did Sanji do during Dressrosa? He didn't beat anybody? The only thing I remember from him was getting his ass kicked by Dofly.
He was able to get Viola on the Straw Hats' side, save the crew from Doflamingo, and help the crew get away from Big Mom's crew. And to be fair, even Law got his ass kicked by Doflamingo, and he's considered a Supernova. Luffy's devil fruit gave him an advantage in that it allowed him to expand with haki so he could break Doflamingo's strings, whereas anyone without that advantage would be in trouble.

On Punk Hazard, despite all the BS claims, Sanji also didn't do badly against Vergo. Fight ended in a draw, with both men being able to run and move without an issue, especially Sanji despite all the damage his body took prior to Vergo. Only reason why Sanji's getting shit for this is because he didn't flat-out beat Vergo, whereas Law was able to thanks to his devil fruit. Plus, for some reason, being tied up by Doflamingo and unable to move means Sanji's weak, even though Doflamingo had to resort to tying him up.

Sanji's been lowkey, but he's been underappreciated as well post-timeskip.
 

King Moe

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But the RS actually heavily boost strength and defense. Sanji taking it off wouldn't be like Rock Lee taking out the weights. Sanji's very strong in his own right but the RS is a weaponized suit that makes him stronger.
Not really as his power still his own as shown with as he still fights with Black Leg style even using RS, no new power or anything on offensive type. RS is more training than him needing for power. PO fight push nature he needs to hide his identity, not for power sake.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Without RS he is someone who cant even beat Doffy's underlings but with it he can juke it out with a yonko crew's executives and even has potential to beat a commander.
People here seriously underestimate how much the RS boosts Sanji.
Nah, you seriously underestimate Sanji and he tied off with Vergo and give him a good fight while nerf and damage even YVs easily without RS. His power is more capable than it looks and your picking and choosing what you want to say like always.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

That's not how the suit works. It doesn't impede him in any way, it increases his durability and speed.

There is no real training he can do in the suit to increase his base strength. He can only train to increase his proficiency with the suit. Or, in a long shot, he can train himself to replicate the base enhancements of the suit. But that would just be him strengthening his regular strength, without even needing the suit.



Not much. He saved Viola, got kidnapped, saved the crew, fought and loss to Doffy, then he was out of the arc with Nami, Brook, Chopper, and Momo.

Doffy was his only fight, but he wasn't the only one who got his ass kicked by Doffy, so he's at least in good company. Hell, Law had intel and still got his ass kicked every time they fought.
Ehh, Idk about speed and durability that much as we saw early his speed is good even without it from tanking Kanjuro's ship destroying attack and come fast to protect the others (Nami), so even without RS, he is not weak at all. Idk why you guys pushing narrative him desperate for suit when he is fine fighting enemies with or without it. There is skill training to it since RS can't be control just by anyone unlike Enma sword that anyone with proficient Haki can harness as it's more for training on his body as it could help him get stronger without it as a training suit.

Doffy had to try to tied him up to stop him from moving and needing to block. Even Doffy acknowledge he is strong one and wouldn't just say that to anybody he just sees. Idk why you guys downplaying Sanji not being helpful around past arcs as he has. Issue just fight history, but even then it's more his fight don't finish, he hasn't really lose to anyone except for Doffy who is reasonable opponent as Law lost to him and Zoro couldn't even stop his Birdcage. He was no one for him to beat except Luffy only. He is shown strong in his fights as NW went on especially getting best of YV lvl characters like Daifuku and Oven and defeating them like Page One who was out for few weeks. He is more capable than he looks as just because he has lack of fights like other Strawhats for a bit (Except Luffy) doesn't mean he isn't getting stronger.
 

Nie Li

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He was able to get Viola on the Straw Hats' side, save the crew from Doflamingo, and help the crew get away from Big Mom's crew. And to be fair, even Law got his ass kicked by Doflamingo, and he's considered a Supernova. Luffy's devil fruit gave him an advantage in that it allowed him to expand with haki so he could break Doflamingo's strings, whereas anyone without that advantage would be in trouble.
I didn't mean to imply losing against Doflamingo makes Sanji a weakling. I hold Dofla in high esteem. It's just I honestly remember few things from Dressrosa by now.

Not really as his power still his own as shown with as he still fights with Black Leg style even using RS, no new power or anything on offensive type. RS is more training than him needing for power. PO fight push nature he needs to hide his identity, not for power sake.
Why would he change his fighting style? It's the only fight style he knows (since he won't use knives if he's not fighting ingredients) so of course he will still use "Black Leg style". RS is known to boost durability and speed by a lot (it literally boosts kicking speed. It has futuristic thrusters on the feet). And Sanji had no concerns using the invisibility function in a fight against P1. The mask was to hide his identity, yes, but not the invisibility. He's willing to incorporate it into his current fightstyle, because it makes him a harder opponent and so a stronger fighter. So why would he not use the RS anymore when he has to fight a strong enemy? He's no fool.

Also, there's no use of the RS "for training only". You can wear handicaps while training, yes, but the suit is the opposite of a handicap in every possible way.

Nah, you seriously underestimate Sanji and he tied off with Vergo and give him a good fight while nerf and damage even YVs easily without RS. His power is more capable than it looks and your picking and choosing what you want to say like always.
The fight with Vergo looked seriously bad for Sanji. He wasn't humiliated nor one-shotted was saved by the bell, as they say, since he was losing a kicking contest, the only real strength of Sanji, before Vergo went full haki or used his weapon or simply tried to shigan him.

Ehh, Idk about speed and durability that much as we saw early his speed is good even without it from tanking Kanjuro's ship destroying attack and come fast to protect the others (Nami), so even without RS, he is not weak at all.
May pre-TS attacks could destroy ships. Sanji isn't a weakling per se, but that doesn't mean he has enough leeway to ignore the RS; an easy way to be much stronger than he already is without it.

Idk why you guys pushing narrative him desperate for suit when he is fine fighting enemies with or without it. There is skill training to it since RS can't be control just by anyone unlike Enma sword that anyone with proficient Haki can harness as it's more for training on his body as it could help him get stronger without it as a training suit.
"You guys pushing narrative". And then you go on about "anyone with proficient Haki can harness Enma" when Enma was explicitly said to be very hard to master, while you claim "not anyone can control a RS", when Sanji is literally "anyone" who just put it on for the first time and had 0 trouble using it in a real fight against a Tobi Roppo.
And, once again, no, the suit making Sanji stronger makes it so he pushes himself less and has it somewhat easier, so while he will obviously continue to get stronger, the suit won't help to that purpose.

Doffy had to try to tied him up to stop him from moving and needing to block. Even Doffy acknowledge he is strong one and wouldn't just say that to anybody he just sees. Idk why you guys downplaying Sanji not being helpful around past arcs as he has. Issue just fight history, but even then it's more his fight don't finish, he hasn't really lose to anyone except for Doffy who is reasonable opponent as Law lost to him and Zoro couldn't even stop his Birdcage. He was no one for him to beat except Luffy only. He is shown strong in his fights as NW went on especially getting best of YV lvl characters like Daifuku and Oven and defeating them like Page One who was out for few weeks. He is more capable than he looks as just because he has lack of fights like other Strawhats for a bit (Except Luffy) doesn't mean he isn't getting stronger.
Yeah, Sanji beat none of them. And no, he didn't beat Page One or we would have seen a single mention about it and we have just learnt how durable prehistoric zoans are. We have literally just seem them take hits from Luffy mucho stronger than Sanji's and just get up even if they're bleeding out or have a broken jaw. Sanji didn't knock him out and "had him out for weeks". It's more obvious the more info we get about P1 and these zoans. And that was despite being boosted by the RS and taking advantage of the invisibility function, so poor choice of fight to claim Sanji's fighting ability is that high.

There's no saying he isn't able to defeat a Tobi Roppo, since that fight was cut short, but he still hasn't.
 

King Moe

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I didn't mean to imply losing against Doflamingo makes Sanji a weakling. I hold Dofla in high esteem. It's just I honestly remember few things from Dressrosa by now.


Why would he change his fighting style? It's the only fight style he knows (since he won't use knives if he's not fighting ingredients) so of course he will still use "Black Leg style". RS is known to boost durability and speed by a lot (it literally boosts kicking speed. It has futuristic thrusters on the feet). And Sanji had no concerns using the invisibility function in a fight against P1. The mask was to hide his identity, yes, but not the invisibility. He's willing to incorporate it into his current fightstyle, because it makes him a harder opponent and so a stronger fighter. So why would he not use the RS anymore when he has to fight a strong enemy? He's no fool.

Also, there's no use of the RS "for training only". You can wear handicaps while training, yes, but the suit is the opposite of a handicap in every possible way.


The fight with Vergo looked seriously bad for Sanji. He wasn't humiliated nor one-shotted was saved by the bell, as they say, since he was losing a kicking contest, the only real strength of Sanji, before Vergo went full haki or used his weapon or simply tried to shigan him.


May pre-TS attacks could destroy ships. Sanji isn't a weakling per se, but that doesn't mean he has enough leeway to ignore the RS; an easy way to be much stronger than he already is without it.


"You guys pushing narrative". And then you go on about "anyone with proficient Haki can harness Enma" when Enma was explicitly said to be very hard to master, while you claim "not anyone can control a RS", when Sanji is literally "anyone" who just put it on for the first time and had 0 trouble using it in a real fight against a Tobi Roppo.
And, once again, no, the suit making Sanji stronger makes it so he pushes himself less and has it somewhat easier, so while he will obviously continue to get stronger, the suit won't help to that purpose.


Yeah, Sanji beat none of them. And no, he didn't beat Page One or we would have seen a single mention about it and we have just learnt how durable prehistoric zoans are. We have literally just seem them take hits from Luffy mucho stronger than Sanji's and just get up even if they're bleeding out or have a broken jaw. Sanji didn't knock him out and "had him out for weeks". It's more obvious the more info we get about P1 and these zoans. And that was despite being boosted by the RS and taking advantage of the invisibility function, so poor choice of fight to claim Sanji's fighting ability is that high.

There's no saying he isn't able to defeat a Tobi Roppo, since that fight was cut short, but he still hasn't.
Talking about difference how Germa fight and how he fights as he still fight using his legs instead fighting like Germa. You missed the point about what I mean. Sanji uses invisibility by accident and after that he keep using his speed to defeat PO in the end as he didn't use it mostly in the fight. He will use RS, I never said he won't anymore, but it's stealth mission stuff, not for sake of power or he is can't fight without it as that isn't case, he doesn't mind either way as again RS won't be case for him need to fight with it like his family as he is fine fighting without it.

Vergo got busted open twice by him and push back. Sanji was fine afterwards as his body act the same as it was before. You also got to take in Sanji was nerf going in given what happen with his body in Nami's hands, but still was able to handle Vergo who couldn't finish his mission at all in the end. If they fight continue, Vergo would eventuality lose as Sanji was gaining his body's strength back the more he continue in the end. It wouldn't be easy, but Vergo would lose in the end.

Kanjuro's power is more than pre-timeskip ones especially he knows Haki and is one of the Scabbards who are no joke in fighting. For Sanji to be fine after blocking that and blitz still is big feat for him. Also RS again not source of his true power as it's still himself end of the day, he not going to be desperate to use it in every moment he wants to fight as again he fights his way of thinking, not his family way. He will use it, but not on dependcy lvl.

RS and Enma are different on how they are use and it's true on Enma. Are you now saying Luffy if he touches it won't be able to handle strain cause that is false as no one credible have felt that in that regard as I doubt Zoro is only one to handle it as give it to any notable and credible character with Haki and they get it down. Not the same case for RS which takes skill on how to work into it and doesn't make you stronger as invisibility doesn't add to your attack power. Also yeah suit will be training type of situation as that is possibility that it's features will be able to transfer to his body greatly or enhanced it more once suit off similar to his Siblings using their abilities even without their respective RSes. So can be use as training purpose for him in the long run than sake of power which it never was for Sanji as he never saw it like need on it.

Now what you talking about? He beaten PO plain as day and he did handle those guys in WCI as Oven got easily damage from his non-named attack and Daifuku was stopped from destroying the ship by Sanji. He is able to handle YVs even without the suit prior. PO didn't come back after 2 weeks from their fight and yes while durable, doesn't mean their undefeatable. He got beaten and recover that is the story unless your now saying Holdem never lost to Luffy since he came back ot Kamazou never tied with Zoro since he came back. He was going to come back, but he still got defeated in the end and was out of it which left only Drake and Hawkins only one to do mission he couldn't continue on.

Sanji's attack power is high man, they going in facing off tough threats and he just ragdoll T6H and All Star candidate with ease without even using any serious move from named attacks, DJ, or Haki to beat him in the end. It's no shame to push credible feat on this as it shows progress of Sanji and crew getting stronger each arc after all. As for getting up from Luffy's attack, that was Luffy not trying and more like using the 2 as training for his own power-up of Adv, COA to test to able to damage them through scale, not that he needed G4 to truly take them both down.
 

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Vergo got busted open twice by him and push back. Sanji was fine afterwards as his body act the same as it was before. You also got to take in Sanji was nerf going in given what happen with his body in Nami's hands, but still was able to handle Vergo who couldn't finish his mission at all in the end. If they fight continue, Vergo would eventuality lose as Sanji was gaining his body's strength back the more he continue in the end. It wouldn't be easy, but Vergo would lose in the end.
It was explicitly shown that Sanji could barely keep standing because of his broken leg after taking just one hit from Vergo, while Vergo was completely unfazed by Sanji's attacks and was only defeated by Law. Sanji had nothing to do with Vergo failing and Vergo running away saved Sanji's life.

Kanjuro's power is more than pre-timeskip ones especially he knows Haki and is one of the Scabbards who are no joke in fighting. For Sanji to be fine after blocking that and blitz still is big feat for him. Also RS again not source of his true power as it's still himself end of the day, he not going to be desperate to use it in every moment he wants to fight as again he fights his way of thinking, not his family way. He will use it, but not on dependcy lvl.
Just look as Luffy spamming every new Gear he gets everywhere he can. Expect to see the raid suit in many fights in the future.

RS and Enma are different on how they are use and it's true on Enma. Are you now saying Luffy if he touches it won't be able to handle strain cause that is false as no one credible have felt that in that regard as I doubt Zoro is only one to handle it as give it to any notable and credible character with Haki and they get it down. Not the same case for RS which takes skill on how to work into it and doesn't make you stronger as invisibility doesn't add to your attack power. Also yeah suit will be training type of situation as that is possibility that it's features will be able to transfer to his body greatly or enhanced it more once suit off similar to his Siblings using their abilities even without their respective RSes. So can be use as training purpose for him in the long run than sake of power which it never was for Sanji as he never saw it like need on it.
Siblings had genetics enhancements and other pieces of technology in their bodies other than just the RS. Using the RS doesn't "improve your abilities when you stop wearing it". RS makes Sanji stronger. He will keep wearing it and it still serves no training purpose.
Enma on the other hand does serve a training purpose, since taming it will make Zoro stronger by achieving greater haki control. So it's still just the other way around than you suggested in your previous post.

RS does make Sanji stronger, because it's similar to wearing haki armor: if you cover yourself in something that drastically upgrades your durability, you'll also hit harder. And yes, the ability to become invisible in a fight also makes Sanji "stronger" in the sense that it's a pretty useful ability even if he can be tracked by haki. It's a nuisance for the opponent.

Now what you talking about? He beaten PO plain as day and he did handle those guys in WCI as Oven got easily damage from his non-named attack and Daifuku was stopped from destroying the ship by Sanji. He is able to handle YVs even without the suit prior. PO didn't come back after 2 weeks from their fight and yes while durable, doesn't mean their undefeatable. He got beaten and recover that is the story unless your now saying Holdem never lost to Luffy since he came back ot Kamazou never tied with Zoro since he came back. He was going to come back, but he still got defeated in the end and was out of it which left only Drake and Hawkins only one to do mission he couldn't continue on.
You always try to push that Zoro was somehow "defeated by Hawkins" yet argue Sanji's little clashes with Oven and the likes makes him "able to handle them".

Sanji's attack power is high man, they going in facing off tough threats and he just ragdoll T6H and All Star candidate with ease without even using any serious move from named attacks, DJ, or Haki to beat him in the end. It's no shame to push credible feat on this as it shows progress of Sanji and crew getting stronger each arc after all. As for getting up from Luffy's attack, that was Luffy not trying and more like using the 2 as training for his own power-up of Adv, COA to test to able to damage them through scale, not that he needed G4 to truly take them both down.
He "ragdolled" P1, that much is true, but he never defeated him nor dealed any lasting or at least visual damage.
I don't mind Sanji getting stronger. I've always loved the monster trio. But arguing things like Sanji was going to beat Vergo? Much less "No-Diff" him? You're extremely biased in how you analyse what the crew members are able to do.

Sanji will eventually become stronger than some of the Tobi Roppo, but he hasn't shown to be on their level so far, especially since his biggest feat is his fight with P1 and that one he had his RS. His RS makes him stronger. There's no shame in that. It's a weapon, don't let pride get in the way of him using his new weapon to be on the level to kick the ass of someone strong this arc.
 

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I didn't mean to imply losing against Doflamingo makes Sanji a weakling. I hold Dofla in high esteem. It's just I honestly remember few things from Dressrosa by now.
I didn't mean to accuse you of that, it's just that people have mistakenly called him weak or accused him of being weak just because he would have lost to Doflamingo, and I was directing that at those who were guilty of that. So far, at least 98% of the arguments against Sanji were nonsense, from what I've seen, and it's been repeated so many times despite being debunked, and it's been annoying. And I say this unbiased.

Sanji also took a beating from Viola and her men prior to winning her trust, as well. Then he, Nami, and few others were told to go find Zou, and their last appearance in the arc was of them confronting Big Mom pirates.
 

King Moe

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It was explicitly shown that Sanji could barely keep standing because of his broken leg after taking just one hit from Vergo, while Vergo was completely unfazed by Sanji's attacks and was only defeated by Law. Sanji had nothing to do with Vergo failing and Vergo running away saved Sanji's life.


Just look as Luffy spamming every new Gear he gets everywhere he can. Expect to see the raid suit in many fights in the future.


Siblings had genetics enhancements and other pieces of technology in their bodies other than just the RS. Using the RS doesn't "improve your abilities when you stop wearing it". RS makes Sanji stronger. He will keep wearing it and it still serves no training purpose.
Enma on the other hand does serve a training purpose, since taming it will make Zoro stronger by achieving greater haki control. So it's still just the other way around than you suggested in your previous post.

RS does make Sanji stronger, because it's similar to wearing haki armor: if you cover yourself in something that drastically upgrades your durability, you'll also hit harder. And yes, the ability to become invisible in a fight also makes Sanji "stronger" in the sense that it's a pretty useful ability even if he can be tracked by haki. It's a nuisance for the opponent.


You always try to push that Zoro was somehow "defeated by Hawkins" yet argue Sanji's little clashes with Oven and the likes makes him "able to handle them".


He "ragdolled" P1, that much is true, but he never defeated him nor dealed any lasting or at least visual damage.
I don't mind Sanji getting stronger. I've always loved the monster trio. But arguing things like Sanji was going to beat Vergo? Much less "No-Diff" him? You're extremely biased in how you analyse what the crew members are able to do.

Sanji will eventually become stronger than some of the Tobi Roppo, but he hasn't shown to be on their level so far, especially since his biggest feat is his fight with P1 and that one he had his RS. His RS makes him stronger. There's no shame in that. It's a weapon, don't let pride get in the way of him using his new weapon to be on the level to kick the ass of someone strong this arc.
Then follow by later running with G5 on his 'broken leg' and pretend whole thing never damage him at all for rest of the arc. I would agree if the injury was him limping all the way into arc until medical needs, but he never does nor needed medical stuff. Leg was fine and your overreacting on it being more damage than arc shows about it later if Sanji was fine and never needed medical for it. Also one-hit was more unprepared as later using same leg he protected against him more and force him to leave in the end. Unfazed? Vergo took two strong hits which send him flying and bleed twice, that's not tanking or unfazed, he was clearly getting damage just the same. Sanji was responsible for Vergo failing his mission and choosing to run away as he couldn't beat him to get to his objective. Your ignoring that clearly about situation on why Vergo was there in first place. To kill G5 and also Tashigi for interfering. Did he do it? No. Who stop him? Sanji. It shows and Vergo was having trouble with him than he realize.

Nah and Luffy just does it for effortlessly, but it's not him using full power or using it more as it's more Base lvl thing for him now, not like he can't handle fodders or something and now RS won't be since we saw early Sanji fighting without it. Again he doesn't have dependent for power, just for disguise only and if he fights with it on, just how it is as he not going to remove it as enemy won't give him time to change clothes, you know.

RS does improve his abilities once he out of it as he see it more training suit and for stealth missions, but not source of all his power going forward. It is being shown like that than being power use unlike Enma who takes Haki of the user for magical purposes as it's a sword anyone can use if they have High Haki. I can list several characters who can tamed Enma than just Zoro who hasn't shown he tamed it actually.

Nah, it does as his power still his power which is why he still fight with his legs even in the suit instead fighting like how his family would fight and invisiblity doesn't increase your at all, just stealth, but he won't use that in head-on fights much given he is more like facing head-on than he looks on facing an enemy and actually want them to see who fighting them in a fight.

Did Zoro beat him to the state like Law did to Hawkins? No, he was left bloodly and needed medical while Law defeated Hawkins in a state Zoro couldn't do. You got understand concept of truly defeating someone than just that. Also yeah Sanji handle them as Oven was pushed back and got hurt from his attack and stop Daifuku from destroying ship as he handle them both from stopping what they doing and couldn't do much against him.

At least you have honesty to admit PO was being destroyed by him in fight easily and yeah, he did took him out. Nothing make sense on why PO was active if he didn't come back. Looks bad writing for Oda if he was still around and never came back or at least choose to rage quit and leave knowing he would get punished for failing the mission. Doesn't make sense at all in hindsight even you want to say he was 'active'. He was defeated and comeback which isn't farefetched if guys like Holdem came back after Luffy beat him. Are we going to say Luffy is not ready given Holdem is still around?

Not being biased, it's called being realistic and truth and you saying the debunked Vergo stuff shows your extremely biased if you can't admit on Vergo on scenes he was damage and pushed back while unable to do his mission because of Sanji. You also couldn't even admit Sanji was nerf going in and was stated and yeah, Sanji would beat him easily at this point. Wano Sanji is on another lvl, if you think he have same issues as before with Vergo even now, then your only one feeling biased on everything here.

He already is stronger than T6H given he beaten their member an they hype as same lvl, not different hierarchy. He shown he is on another lvl and going to face stronger foes and I know RS will be involve, but it won't be RS that gives him power as his power still his own while RS is more of skill/training suit as and of the day, he won't rely on it for power as he rely on it for something else. He made it visible clear it's for disguise and he still hates Germa all the way. He is swallowing his pride about it, but for different uses, not for power as that how it shows. He will do something big and defeating someone, but just saying you shouldn't ignore obvious on him defeating PO and downgrading him thinking he still hasn't shown it. Your not truly being fair on your end on how your talking on the matter.
 
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Nie Li

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Did Zoro beat him to the state like Law did to Hawkins? No, he was left bloodly and needed medical while Law defeated Hawkins in a state Zoro couldn't do. You got understand concept of truly defeating someone than just that. Also yeah Sanji handle them as Oven was pushed back and got hurt from his attack and stop Daifuku from destroying ship as he handle them both from stopping what they doing and couldn't do much against him.
Boy, this paragraph about Zoro alone. "He was left bloodly and needed medical" from Zoro getting struck by a couple nails on the shoulder while he took one of Hawkins lives and just safely left with everyone else (which was their objective. Hawkins objective was to stop them, and he failed).
That to downplay Zoro's performance against Hawkins and claim he's weaker.
From the same man that's claiming "Sanji's leg (his weapon)" getting broken by Vergo with a single hit is no big deal and how it's somehow obvious he would just beat Vergo if the fight had gone on.

Yeah, not biased at all. It's pointless.

Sanji saved the marines, yes, but only because he accidentally stalled Vergo long enough for Law to reach a dangerous room, so Vergo, who was suddenly informed of Vergo, stormed off to stop him as a priority, not to run away from Sanji.
Sanji was lucky. Law accidentaly saved his life because he was in over his head.

The first sucker punch (sucker kick?) on Vergo means nothing after Vergo just silently took the second one without even trying to dodge and just stood up and casually broke his leg.


Last thing on this topic: Sanji has beaten no T6H member. He may do it in the future, but not so far.
 

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Boy, this paragraph about Zoro alone. "He was left bloodly and needed medical" from Zoro getting struck by a couple nails on the shoulder while he took one of Hawkins lives and just safely left with everyone else (which was their objective. Hawkins objective was to stop them, and he failed).
That to downplay Zoro's performance against Hawkins and claim he's weaker.
From the same man that's claiming "Sanji's leg (his weapon)" getting broken by Vergo with a single hit is no big deal and how it's somehow obvious he would just beat Vergo if the fight had gone on.

Yeah, not biased at all. It's pointless.

Sanji saved the marines, yes, but only because he accidentally stalled Vergo long enough for Law to reach a dangerous room, so Vergo, who was suddenly informed of Vergo, stormed off to stop him as a priority, not to run away from Sanji.
Sanji was lucky. Law accidentaly saved his life because he was in over his head.

The first sucker punch (sucker kick?) on Vergo means nothing after Vergo just silently took the second one without even trying to dodge and just stood up and casually broke his leg.


Last thing on this topic: Sanji has beaten no T6H member. He may do it in the future, but not so far.
Hawkins and taking his lives is his thing though. DF powers are tricky and he can gained more lives, so Idk feat on taking his life when it's nothing to him. He even had card that took one of his lives and didn't care. If your counting that as feat worthy, then that's kinda scratching for effort when Law did better in taking out majorly of his lives and beating him fully in the end. Zoro didn't do any of that stuff nor do same as Law as from what we seen from his fights, Zoro getting hype tool is showing to be the case.

Pot calling the kettle black I see what you doing honestly.

Vergo still couldn't take him out though as he prove to be stronger than he looks and go for long fight in the process, not because of Law situation alone. He usually type fo guy who finished his jobs, so for not trying to end it quickly on Sanji and do prior missions, show he face someone stronger than he realize in Sanji. Fight would eventuality end in his victory and Law was one of the reasons, yes, but not the only factor.

Not really cause Vergo heard his voice and turned to the direction and got strike looking onward. If your counting someone speed-blitzing to not keep up, then guess Kizaru is really not much of a threat since he outspeeds everyone xD. Vergo got kick in the face first hit and hold his cheek and second one send him flying and he couldn't resist that moment to get push back.

He already did. Stop with 'Anime is Canon' if your using that as evidence as if that case I guess Batman vs Zoro or Luffy is expected. Sanji beaten him and he didn't come back to heal from injuries and proven himself above them. It's fact man, he facing YC lvl threat for final fight, not T6H no matter you want downplay for your own picky view.
 

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Hawkins and taking his lives is his thing though. DF powers are tricky and he can gained more lives, so Idk feat on taking his life when it's nothing to him. He even had card that took one of his lives and didn't care. If your counting that as feat worthy, then that's kinda scratching for effort when Law did better in taking out majorly of his lives and beating him fully in the end. Zoro didn't do any of that stuff nor do same as Law as from what we seen from his fights, Zoro getting hype tool is showing to be the case.

Pot calling the kettle black I see what you doing honestly.
"Yeah, Sanji survived a couple of kicks from Vergo but Vergo obviously didn't care. If your counting that as feat worthy, then that's kinda scratching for effort when Law did better in beating him fully in the end. Sanji didn't do it that nor do same as Law from what we seen form his fights, Sanji getting hype tool is showing to be the case.

Pot calling the kettle black I see what you doing honestly".

See? I just used the exact same argument you're using against Zoro, word by word, against Sanji.

What's bad is not that you hype Sanji or that you diss Zoro. What's bad is that you interpret similar outcomes and use one to overhype one character while you overundermine the other. And they aren't even that similar since Zoro didn't have trouble walking after his encounter.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

He already did. Stop with 'Anime is Canon' if your using that as evidence as if that case I guess Batman vs Zoro or Luffy is expected. Sanji beaten him and he didn't come back to heal from injuries and proven himself above them. It's fact man, he facing YC lvl threat for final fight, not T6H no matter you want downplay for your own picky view.
I don't even watch the anime. Sanji never beat P1 in the manga, and now that we know about P1's durability from his clash from Luffy it's more evident than it ever was before.
 

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"Yeah, Sanji survived a couple of kicks from Vergo but Vergo obviously didn't care. If your counting that as feat worthy, then that's kinda scratching for effort when Law did better in beating him fully in the end. Sanji didn't do it that nor do same as Law from what we seen form his fights, Sanji getting hype tool is showing to be the case.

Pot calling the kettle black I see what you doing honestly".

See? I just used the exact same argument you're using against Zoro, word by word, against Sanji.

What's bad is not that you hype Sanji or that you diss Zoro. What's bad is that you interpret similar outcomes and use one to overhype one character while you overundermine the other. And they aren't even that similar since Zoro didn't have trouble walking after his encounter.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---


I don't even watch the anime. Sanji never beat P1 in the manga, and now that we know about P1's durability from his clash from Luffy it's more evident than it ever was before.
Vergo did care if he was holding his face from one of his kicks. To say he wasn't taking damage is ignorant when he was bleeding to boot. Yo handle a blow, but doesn't mean your not getting hurt of course. I said Sanji will take longer in beating in the end, didn't say anything about Sanji stronger than Law. What issues your putting now from your views? Law is stronger than Sanji and handle him better, never said anything about that, but don't take offense if I say Law is better than Zoro and your trying to push narrative Zoro is on there when he isn't.

Not similar in anyway at all even if it revolves Law beating the opponents of they had before. Just saying what is true about situation as Sanji and Zoro end of their respective fights, one needed medical treatment while the other was fine rest of the arc without medical treatment.

You don't sound like it from what your pushing and Sanji beat him in the end. Don't need fights to see outcome to know who lose or by your logic, BB never beat Ace since we never seen outcome of that fight nor some BB's feats. Is BB not strong as he looks then? Did he not beat Macro in their fight since we didn't see the outcome of it all? See how hole in your argument there? Luffy wasn't going all out and was testing his power, not interested in beating Ulti or PO down. Sanji ragdoll and defeat him, while Luffy is already above him, but testing his power is hat he doing, not that they push him to the limit.
 

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You don't sound like it from what your pushing and Sanji beat him in the end. Don't need fights to see outcome to know who lose or by your logic, BB never beat Ace since we never seen outcome of that fight nor some BB's feats. Is BB not strong as he looks then? Did he not beat Macro in their fight since we didn't see the outcome of it all? See how hole in your argument there? Luffy wasn't going all out and was testing his power, not interested in beating Ulti or PO down. Sanji ragdoll and defeat him, while Luffy is already above him, but testing his power is hat he doing, not that they push him to the limit.
I don't see a hole in my argument, I only see someone twisting my arguments as hard as he possibly can.

There's literally zero proofs and zero implications of Sanji beating P1, and going by recent chapters, there's implications that he did in fact not beat him. Much less could Sanji possibly "kick him out for weeks" now that we know both the durability and the recovery speed of those zoans.

This has nothing to do with BB, Ace or Marco and mixing that in this topic isn't doing your point any favors.
 

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I don't see a hole in my argument, I only see someone twisting my arguments as hard as he possibly can.

There's literally zero proofs and zero implications of Sanji beating P1, and going by recent chapters, there's implications that he did in fact not beat him. Much less could Sanji possibly "kick him out for weeks" now that we know both the durability and the recovery speed of those zoans.

This has nothing to do with BB, Ace or Marco and mixing that in this topic isn't doing your point any favors.
I am using examples, but sure call it 'twisting' if someone give you another example and you don't see flaw in saying 'if we don't see it, that means it never happen'.

Nah, there are evidence and implications around as PO was defeated and recover later just like that and it is same format like Ace and Macro who defeated off-screen and it pushes more they were defeated, so again same vibe. Just how it is man. If you have something against Sanji, it's fine. Though don't push narrative on your control is all I am saying. Also yeah, but they will be defeated in the end, so that is only extent on how long they can last and their recovery speed won't be instant thing, you know that.
 

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I am using examples, but sure call it 'twisting' if someone give you another example and you don't see flaw in saying 'if we don't see it, that means it never happen'.

Nah, there are evidence and implications around as PO was defeated and recover later just like that and it is same format like Ace and Macro who defeated off-screen and it pushes more they were defeated, so again same vibe. Just how it is man. If you have something against Sanji, it's fine. Though don't push narrative on your control is all I am saying. Also yeah, but they will be defeated in the end, so that is only extent on how long they can last and their recovery speed won't be instant thing, you know that.
I already said I love Sanji. I love the monster trio. But Sanji did not beat PO and it has nothing to do with Marco or Ace. Not the same vibe in the least. You can disagree with that if you want despite the evidence of PO not being defeated, though.

Don't push narrative on your control is all I am saying.
 

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I already said I love Sanji. I love the monster trio. But Sanji did not beat PO and it has nothing to do with Marco or Ace. Not the same vibe in the least. You can disagree with that if you want despite the evidence of PO not being defeated, though.

Don't push narrative on your control is all I am saying.
Then please don't think my defense is something about fanboyism or forcing narrative when it just stating facts. You don't hear me saying Sanji will beat Kaido, stronger than Luffy, etc. like certain others do for a character on here. Just saying on his progress so far and why as M3 member, Luffy who face Yonkos, it make sense why Sanji and Zoro (If he can shape up) face YC lvl threats in the arc so to be close to Luffy's power, but still gap between them.

It's same vibe as off-screen we didn't see how fight end and it shows that BB won on each just same Sanji beat PO off-screen and he never came back. Doesn't make sense where PO is active and he didn't come back. You haven't counter that at all and just pushing just Sanji didn't beat him despite he ragdoll him around the fight. The hints shows, I am not making narrative up, just saying how it's similar stance like BB's fight. BB was dominant and went off-screen to later show he wins with Ace sent to Impel Down and Macro retired temporarily after that. Sanji is dominant in fight and off-screen and we never see PO again for rest of the arc until back at Fire Festival. Not making it up, just same pattern Oda uses when we see how off-screen fights work and hints shows who beat who or outcome is.
 

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Sanji needs haki. Perioid.
P1 wasnt defeated he was stalled successfully.

What's annoying with Oda. Is that he hates Sanji lol.

The P1 fight is exactly like the Vergo fight. Except this time Sanji get more hits in and doesnt take any damage.

Either Way there's still ambiguity of P1 switching combat modes and overpowering Sanji while in his suit. Despite Sanji's many fast & invisible attacks P1 wasnt injured.

So Sanji has a list of ambigious combat prowess and no wins to his name. To concretely say Sanji is ....Strong...We have an idea of his relative level and capabilities....

But it ain't No Commander level stuff. SORRY. Blame Oda.
 
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