Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[HereNThere]

Somehow we're back on this topic...

 

[M3J]

You guys really need to learn to ignore posts, because it's annoying seeing pages after pages of same or circular arguments with at least one side doing horribly. Gotten so bad that I don't even come into threads like this anymore or just skip to the last page.

Sanji gets a boost from Raid Suit, he himself admitted it. Manga fact, end of, no need to continue when there's no new point for or against. If the other side still argues against it, then you won't be convincing them otherwise. He's going to rely on the raid suit more, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's not a knock. It just means he's going to go up against stronger opponents, as the others will, and will need more power, as the others will.

 

[Nie Li]

Somehow we're back on this topic...

You guys really need to learn to ignore posts, because it's annoying seeing pages after pages of same or circular arguments with at least one side doing horribly. Gotten so bad that I don't even come into threads like this anymore or just skip to the last page.

Sanji gets a boost from Raid Suit, he himself admitted it. Manga fact, end of, no need to continue when there's no new point for or against. If the other side still argues against it, then you won't be convincing them otherwise. He's going to rely on the raid suit more, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's not a knock. It just means he's going to go up against stronger opponents, as the others will, and will need more power, as the others will.

I should apologize for playing along with that discussion. I need to work on what M3J very appropriately suggested.

This topic is really finding its way back each time Sanji moves in a weekly chapter.

 

[King Moe]

1. If Drake beat or didn't beat Sanji is besides the point. You bring up his encounter with Drake as if it proved that a Tobi Roppo is below him without the RS, yet their encounter didn't provide any conclusive prove about that.


2. This does not answer my point nor my question. At all.

However Sanji's siblings fight has nothing to do with the RS boosting Sanji's usual style and being perfectly complementary to it.


3. Yes, you did say many times that Sanji will "never use his RS for fighting", so you're straight up lying about what you have said.
Sanji's power using the RS will be his own power boosted by the RS, because the RS boosts his durability and, by extension, the strength of his kicks. Not to mention his speed. It's a fact that it boosts his power, so stop talking about invisibility while denying and undermining everything else it does.

He's durable without the RS? Yes. But he's not durable enough. He would have died last week without the RS. What you say goes against what Sanji himself has recently said in the manga. If you love Sanji so much you should believe what he says.


4. Nobody's called him a helpless person, but he would have died to King last week without it. Sanji is a strong person, but he's likely not YC1 level, so what problem do you have to him boosting his power through the RS to be able to beat down stronger opponents? It's just a tool; of course Sanji wearing the RS will be worlds stronger than me myself wearing the RS, but the RS still boosts his power and his overall fighting capabilities, and you can't deny it. I, however, have already proven you many times with panels from the manga that the RS does boost Sanji.


Oops.

Nobody's said he will wear it 24/7. Nobody but you, putting words in my mouth, is saying that Sanji can't defeat fodder without the RS.

The RS is now like Zoro's bandana. Of course Sanji can beat weaker people without it or hold his own against certain strong people without it, but when he wants to face a stronger opponent than himself, like King, he will wear the RS because the RS gives him a boost of power to his usual fighting style.

I was going to post on this and counter your points again, but since everyone stating to go onto something else, agree to disagree for now. Should not have escalate back to this after I agree on RS usage, just not what you see.

Now let's talk about something else. What new techniques you guys Sanji using and do you think Anime is hinting something Oda will show later like CP-similar technique that looks like Rankyaku, but more Advanced to it? Would have to see skills he brings out from his body along even wearing RS too.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

What new techniques you guys Sanji using and do you think Anime is hinting something Oda will show later like CP-similar technique that looks like Rankyaku, but more Advanced to it? Would have to see skills he brings out from his body along even wearing RS too.

Don't see any new techniques from his body, but i can see new moves from RS, since RS enhances his attacks

 

[Fox666]

Cause he never state the 'need of power'

Oops.

Hmm, I don't think Sanji is implying that he need more power. I think he's questioning if the Raid Suit is not useless.

Think of Zoro picking a random sword in the battlefield, and asking himself if that sword is strong enough.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

So who has seen the anime today.
Even tho Oda said he lets the anime expand on things, what do you think about the interaction between them (Drake clarifying he’s not as weak as P1) and how Sanji reacted when he saw him in this weeks chapter?

if Zoro fans didn’t know better they’d say Moe directed this episode.

 

[Nie Li]

So who has seen the anime today.
Even tho Oda said he lets the anime expand on things, what do you think about the interaction between them (Drake clarifying he’s not as weak as P1) and how Sanji reacted when he saw him in this weeks chapter?

if Zoro fans didn’t know better they’d say Moe directed this episode.

I don't watch the anime so I've gotta ask. What did Sanji do?

(Either way, no matter what Oda said about letting the anime expand some things, I don't think anything other than the manga should be considered canon, even if it happens to be good content.)

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

if Zoro fans didn’t know better they’d say Moe directed this episode.

lmao

I don't watch the anime so I've gotta ask. What did Sanji do?

(Either way, no matter what Oda said about letting the anime expand some things, I don't think anything other than the manga should be considered canon, even if it happens to be good content.)

sanji landed a hit on drake, anime only content

 

[Fox666]

I don't watch the anime so I've gotta ask. What did Sanji do?

Sanji landed multiple hits on Drake, which had no effect (like the manga). Then he decided his hits would have effect, and he defeated Drake.

 

[Nie Li]

Sanji landed multiple hits on Drake, which had no effect (like the manga). Then he decided his hits would have effect, and he defeated Drake.

WTF.

Okay.

1- I understand that to extend the fight they had to make up Drake's fighting style, but I think they messed up even that. I doubt that he fights with his front claws in full transformation form. Just imagine an allosaurus or a T-Rex fighting with his tiny claws.

2- Going from not being able to put a dent on Drake with a front kick to the face to just easily defeating him and Drake just remaining still taking x50 kicks to the face without reacting for no reason?

The HUGE disrespect to Drake, a Supernova. Going from being superior in the part that comes from the manga, to being fodder and not even put up a fight a minute of filler later. Yeah, I've been reminded of why I stopped watching it.

 

[King Moe]

lmao

sanji landed a hit on drake, anime only content

Seems more canon to me especially fight did happen in the manga and does explain why Drake never follow him afterwards.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

Sanji landed multiple hits on Drake, which had no effect (like the manga). Then he decided his hits would have effect, and he defeated Drake.

Actually, we didn't see a direct hit of his attack in the manga as they were still fighting. It was inbetween when Sanji wasn't taking him seriously and checking around area. If they did this, then Oda gave them the word about Sanji clearing out Drake like that as I am sure Oda wouldn't like character beating another if he knew they couldn't do that. Though with recent manga chapters with how Sanji is confident that Usopp and Nami can beat Page One and Ulti to beat them, this goes along showing Sanji is indeed above T6H lvl and more in YC lvl which make sense all around about it.

 

[Nie Li]

Seems more canon to me especially fight did happen in the manga and does explain why Drake never follow him afterwards.

Of course, this doesn't even surprise me.

Page 1 getting up after his fight with Sanji is an unspeakable filler to you and never possibly all canon. You went around telling people to stop taking the anime as canon.

But Sanji going from "I can't hurt this Ancient Zoan Worst Generation Supernova even with a direct diable jambe kick to the face" to "I demolish his ass" in under a minute feels "more canon than the manga" to you.

Go figure.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

Actually, we didn't see a direct hit of his attack in the manga as they were still fighting. It was inbetween when Sanji wasn't taking him seriously and checking around area. If they did this, then Oda gave them the word about Sanji clearing out Drake like that as I am sure Oda wouldn't like character beating another if he knew they couldn't do that. Though with recent manga chapters with how Sanji is confident that Usopp and Nami can beat Page One and Ulti to beat them, this goes along showing Sanji is indeed above T6H lvl and more in YC lvl which make sense all around about it.

If this is true, then Sanji failed to defeat Page 1. To defend one argument you must abandon the other since they exclude each other.

I love this.

 

[King Moe]

WTF.

Okay.

1- I understand that to extend the fight they had to make up Drake's fighting style, but I think they messed up even that. I doubt that he fights with his front claws in full transformation form. Just imagine an allosaurus or a T-Rex fighting with his tiny claws.

2- Going from not being able to put a dent on Drake with a front kick to the face to just easily defeating him and Drake just remaining still taking x50 kicks to the face without reacting for no reason?

The HUGE disrespect to Drake, a Supernova. Going from being superior in the part that comes from the manga, to being fodder and not even put up a fight a minute of filler later. Yeah, I've been reminded of why I stopped watching it.

Losing to Sanji doesn't make you a fodder, just that Sanji gotten stronger as you thin he can't beat anyone no more and need RS for every fight? Sanji is capable fighter without and with RS from what I stated. I see no surprise in this especially they wouldn't do this scene if Oda would not like a character defeating someone he thinks couldn't do that, so he had to know before hand about the situation.

I mean he in Full Zoan, he is kinda slow moving dinosaur, he won't keep up with speed in that state and won't react when getting pummel down. It's same why he didn't doge Pacifista's laser blast to his body in that state too. I don't see is disrespect as he still strong in his own right as losing one fight doesn't make you instant fodder ot credible threat.

 

[Takuan]

Lol Moe, you're cracking me up.

Anyway, damn. I heard some criticism about the anime, they way they animated the Zoro vs Killler fight for instance... But witnessing the drop of quality with my own eyes, it hurts. I was planning to get back to the anime (i stopped at Zou), now i don't know if i really want to.

 

[King Moe]

Of course, this doesn't even surprise me.

Page 1 getting up after his fight with Sanji is an unspeakable filler to you and never possibly all canon. You went around telling people to stop taking the anime as canon.

But Sanji going from "I can't hurt this Ancient Zoan Worst Generation Supernova even with a direct diable jambe kick to the face" to "I demolish his ass" in under a minute feels "more canon than the manga" to you.

Go figure.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

If this is true, then Sanji failed to defeat Page 1. To defend one argument you must abandon the other since they exclude each other.

I love this.

Saying not canon doesn't really help your point as if we go by that logic, it still shows PO never return in manga and was defeated off-screen since it doesn't make sense him being active if he never came back to Drake and Hawkins, but if we go by anime canon, PO was overpowered and knock down like ragdoll and Drake was defeated down as well.

So which one you want abandon yourself and that will also mean you going to have drop Anime-inclusions of all characters like Zoro in his extended fights. You can't have one way and not another.

Also how does that prove anything? You guys were saying if Sanji see PO again, it will push he must face him again since he never beat him, but in reality he did beat him and push Usopp and Nami to be strong enough to beat him. He is known to help those two out when facing trouble, but seeing PO never give him vibe of that which explains he did beat him overall and now going to face someone much stronger like with King who more of challenging threat than PO.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020 ---

Lol Moe, you're cracking me up.

Anyway, damn. I heard some criticism about the anime, they way they animated the Zoro vs Killler fight for instance... But witnessing the drop of quality with my own eyes, it hurts. I was planning to get back to the anime (i stopped at Zou), now i don't know if i really want to.

I am just following you guys on how you saw Anime when it came to scenes like this, so don't blame me for following crowd .

Is it really 'quality' or you just don't like character getting shine by Anime? As they give it equal to both Zoro and Sanji as well shine to rest of Strawhats too.

 

[Takuan]

I am just following you guys on how you saw Anime when it came to scenes like this, so don't blame me for following crowd .

What do you mean?
I don't think anyone ever considered something from the anime canon when it's opposite of what the manga material shows.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

Is it really 'quality' or you just don't like character getting shine by Anime? As they give it equal to both Zoro and Sanji as well shine to rest of Strawhats too.

If the anime decided to have Zoro defeat Kyoshiro when they briefly clash, when the canon material never showed anything of the sort, you would have screamed not canon. And with good reason, because that would have been ridiculous, just like that scene with Sanji is ridiculous.
The anime just shows Sanji defeat one of the strongest Supernova with little effort, when the manga didn't show he was capable of anything of the sort.

 

[M3J]

Anime should never be counted as canon pls, there should be no argument on this.

 

[King Moe]

What do you mean?
I don't think anyone ever considered something from the anime canon when it's opposite of what the manga material shows.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

If the anime decided to have Zoro defeat Kyoshiro when they briefly clash, when the canon material never showed anything of the sort, you would have screamed not canon. And with good reason, because that would have been ridiculous, just like that scene with Sanji is ridiculous.
The anime just shows Sanji defeat one of the strongest Supernova with little effort, when the manga didn't show he was capable of anything of the sort.

Some users actually did or at least during Kamazou vs Zoro fight they push notion of hunger as canon more given sound they heard while still ignoring Zoro was bleeding heavily from his wound, so if we doing 'Anime is Canon' then we got take this scene same way.

Not really, I wouldn't mind much, but that won't happen given Kyoshiro is Scabbard and needed later at full force unlike Drake in their different portrayals.

Sanji is strong fighter and Drake isn't Top 5 of Supernovas though as more in mid area and equal with T6H who Sanji already shown even in manga above off. Make sense about it especially if Oda gave word on this, then it's possible especially on current chapter he left Usopp and Nami to defeat Page One and Ulti who he didn't see much threat to himself or to them.

Not going "100%" as it's debatable on what is canon or not, but it's clear Anime and Oda sees Sanji above T6H like PO and Drake, so he is much stronger without and with RS.

 

[Nie Li]

Saying not canon doesn't really help your point as if we go by that logic, it still shows PO never return in manga and was defeated off-screen since it doesn't make sense him being active if he never came back to Drake and Hawkins, but if we go by anime canon, PO was overpowered and knock down like ragdoll and Drake was defeated down as well.

PO being defeated in the manga is your subjective interpretation, not something that can actually be proven, so that's not a valid point. You spent weeks complaining about PO getting up in the anime, which is why I'm calling you out now that you suddenly love the anime so much and want to consider it canon.

So which one you want abandon yourself and that will also mean you going to have drop Anime-inclusions of all characters like Zoro in his extended fights. You can't have one way and not another.

My point is that you can't have both things. You can't say "this from the anime isn't canon but this is" only when it benefits Sanji.

I don't have to abandon any point since I've never said anything from the anime is canon. If you check my points you'll see that I didn't even like Zoro's extended fights, so your point is non-existent, but it was nice of you how you tried to deflect my accusation (and failed).

Also how does that prove anything? You guys were saying if Sanji see PO again, it will push he must face him again since he never beat him, but in reality he did beat him and push Usopp and Nami to be strong enough to beat him. He is known to help those two out when facing trouble, but seeing PO never give him vibe of that which explains he did beat him overall and now going to face someone much stronger like with King who more of challenging threat than PO.

Who is "you guys"? I never said the plot would push Sanji vs PO again.

In the manga, Sanji has not defeated PO and much less Drake, but that's not even the point of my comment. The point was only to call out how biased you can be on this topic, and you have no way out of there.

You made many posts complaining about people taking PO getting up just fine after his encounter with Sanji as canon.

Now you were fast to jump to claim that this anime episode was great and that it's canon because Sanji somehow effortlessly beat Drake in it.


You know that even if Sanji really was stronger than Drake without the RS (which I don't think it's true, but that's a different topic), it would still be a high-diff fight and not such an easy feat for Sanji, right? The only part of the fight that comes from the manga is Drake tanking a kick with his face like "no problem".

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

Some users actually did or at least during Kamazou vs Zoro fight they push notion of hunger as canon more given sound they heard while still ignoring Zoro was bleeding heavily from his wound, so if we doing 'Anime is Canon' then we got take this scene same way.

That is canon because it's from the manga.