Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Nie Li]

What you getting at? That panel is from Chapter 989, not Chapter 990. This is recent images from past recent chapters of Sanji like this as Chapter 990:

Nah, they aren't errors, now your taking biased on not admitting recent chapters show him uninjured especially in Chapter 991 show multiple imagery of him:

So I take Oda is wrong on all of these then after having few weeks to think about characters including Sanji? Again your not being honest if your saying ALL of these are errors as it's one thing if it's one page I can give you that, but if your ignoring these as all as errors despite Oda isn't sloppy artist to forget that long, then you really are only one not honest here about the situation. I read my chapters and your clearly ignoring them to try to downplay the situation if you honestly are ignoring all of these as 'errors'.

Alright, it was two chapters, you were right on using the plural, then.

However, how do you explain that Sanji had a bloodied head just before that? It was certainly not debris, so are you suggesting that Oda drew blood on his face by mistake? I find it easier to believe that either cleaned up or that Oda just forgot, other than Oda drawing additional details by mistake.

Last time I check, Macro still ok as we didn't seen anyone like him screaming in pain or getting damage each time when he came. Do you have imagery of that against BMP or when he is with Perospero.

Your talk would work if we saw him heavily damage and didn't see him again, but PO and 'not interested' in revenge? Yet the man chase after Luffy and Yamato after they take him and his sister out? Now he is going after Usopp and Nami right now after they mock and attack them. Your stating PO doesn't 'revenge' anyone and yet he doing that right now? Yeah your not credible the more you keep talking about this situation. Please come back when your ready to be fair in our talks than biased notion like these.

If you can give me proof of PO being active after fight, then please do and where and what he been doing? If you can't, then it's more heavily implied PO got defeated if he never came back to fight until 2 weeks later which give him enough resting time about the situation.

I just show proof early, but your ignoring it clearly again. I been providing them, but again you have nothing to support about notion about PO situation as your pushing Sanji didn't beat him, but yet has no proof on what he been doing if he was 'active', so please give me concrete evidence. If not, we push this talk away for now and agree to disagree about the situation then. Let's stop talk here as our last talk on this matter then.

You didn't understand my point. Page 1's absence during most of the arc was just the same as Kidd's absence, Nami's absence or Marco's absence during many chapters. They weren't fighting when they last appeared before not appearing for ten/twenty chapters? Sure, so what? There's just too many characters for the plot.

Saying "PO didn't appear for many chapters" is no proof, sorry. Where was Page 1? Anywhere else. He might have received different orders, he might have been looking elsewhere at the time. He might just have been in the bathroom for all we know. It's not important. His defeat wasn't shown nor hinted, so it's up to you to prove it and his absence during a couple of chapters is no proof.

You're proving my point without realizing. You're saying that P1 is a vengeful character. If he's so vengeful, why hasn't he mentioned not even once the man who, according to you, humiliated and defeated him two months ago? Because Sanji failed at taking him down, that is why.


The burden of proof is still on you. So as I said, and now for the last time: either prove it or drop that topic, we already went over it for weeks and, in the end, it's not even really relevant for the series nor for Sanji's characters.

 

[King Moe]

Burden proof is on you. You claimed sanji beat P1 so you need to give proof.

Same to you guys on proving he didn't and why PO never came back. See how that works? If you can't disprove he was active in the fight, you can't disprove my points and heavily implied hints on what happen. PO screaming in pain each time of a kick doesn't help with that he wasn't damage or 'fine' afterwards.

 

[Nie Li]

Same to you guys on proving he didn't and why PO never came back. See how that works? If you can't disprove he was active in the fight, you can't disprove my points and heavily implied hints on what happen. PO screaming in pain each time of a kick doesn't help with that he wasn't damage or 'fine' afterwards.

Simple example of why it doesn't work this way:
In this context, saying "if you can't prove that Page One wasn't defeated, then he was defeated" is the same as saying "if you can't prove that Jesus doesn't exist, then he does exist".

The manga didn't prove it, so we can't say that it happened. You think Page 1's absence is a valid reason to think so, but it's not really proof.

You who defend that Sanji getting his leg broken doesn't mean he was going to lose a fight, should also defend that PO (an ancient zoan) feeling pain from a kick doesn't mean he's going to lose. Be consistent.

 

[goldb]

Well evidence is more strongly Sanji beaten him than he didn't beaten him as why would Sanji lied about taking him down if he wasn't sure about that and go without telling the crew about PO if he was constant active threat? Do you have any proof PO was active at all in the manga?

1. What is this evidence that suggests Sanji defeated him?
2. Where did Sanji say that he had taken him down?
3. Don't do that. The burden of proof is on you. My stance is that the result of the fight is inconclusive.

All we have shown he was ragdoll to oblivion by Sanji without effort and since the fight no reports or chaos have happen since then from PO.

So if I'm correct, what you're saying is, because there's been no reports we have to then believe that PO was defeated?

He never return to Drake and Hawkins in any of scenes with them since and we only saw him 2 weeks later when Fire Festival. We see Sanji looking at PO for first time and his response was non-caring to his existence and even state Usopp and Nami can handle him and Ulti without need to feel like he has to help them. Looking at all this, why should I give faith or presume PO was always active?

Again there could be any number of reasons why he never returned, this is about proof. Drake and Hawkins weren't also stuck at the hip either for every scene.
Its not about you think, it's about what you can prove. Because I can also simply say a whole bunch of things like "from the last kick, I think PO stood up, decided to get serious but Sanji ran away because he didn't want to deal with him or have any extensive fight, which would explain why PO isnt paying attention to Sanji". See? would you be able to disprove that?

This looks more like same situation like Luffy vs Holdem who got defeated, but we later see him coming after in follow weeks after he rest up.

No it really isn't, we clearly saw Luffy defeat Holdem and saw him more recently again than we did Page One.

Until evidence says otherwise, the situation is heavily on Sanji's side he defeated him and PO is not someone on his level or even stronger than him for that matter.

Do you see what you're doing? You say until there's evidence to say otherwise BUT you then say in the first paragraph above that:

Well evidence is more strongly Sanji beaten him than he didn't beaten him as why would Sanji lied about taking him down if he wasn't sure about that and go without telling the crew about PO if he was constant active threat?

So either you can show a panel with a defeated PO or you can't it's as simple as that. Otherwise the result of that fight remains at best inconclusive. Now if your next post doesn't include any proof and just amounts to the same repetitiveness we've seen over the last months or so, I'll begin to delete them and any ensuing discussion because without proof we're not getting anywhere.

As for that, Oda been off-screening a lot of things even moments on different characters that should have been seen, but doesn't mean he doesn't want to or care about them as he did states he will let Anime cover the stuff to expand on them from what he stated in interview. That doesn't mean it's canon all the way, but Oda is not presenting Sanji's portrayal level of power what you think as both are pushing him to be stronger than we realize. We just saw him tank an serious attack from King and now building ongoing fight between them. You were one of the few who stated Sanji will fight PO again, but turn out to be wrong as Oda pushing portrayal of him facing someone else greater. You shouldn't read too much in that espect when it was clear Sanji dominated him easily in their fight. There is no purpose of a rematch or even why waste easy opponent for him when it could be good development for the rest of Strawhats to face with him?

I was one of those that believed Sanji and PO would fight again, precisely because I thought the fight was inconclusive and we needed to see a result from that before he thought King or Queen. I don't mind being wrong there. But we're not talking about rematches here, we're still just on that first one.

 

[King Moe]

Alright, it was two chapters, you were right on using the plural, then.

However, how do you explain that Sanji had a bloodied head just before that? It was certainly not debris, so are you suggesting that Oda drew blood on his face by mistake? I find it easier to believe that either cleaned up or that Oda just forgot, other than Oda drawing additional details by mistake.


You didn't understand my point. Page 1's absence during most of the arc was just the same as Kidd's absence, Nami's absence or Marco's absence during many chapters. They weren't fighting when they last appeared before not appearing for ten/twenty chapters? Sure, so what? There's just too many characters for the plot.

Saying "PO didn't appear for many chapters" is no proof, sorry. Where was Page 1? Anywhere else. He might have received different orders, he might have been looking elsewhere at the time. He might just have been in the bathroom for all we know. It's not important. His defeat wasn't shown nor hinted, so it's up to you to prove it and his absence during a couple of chapters is no proof.

You're proving my point without realizing. You're saying that P1 is a vengeful character. If he's so vengeful, why hasn't he mentioned not even once the man who, according to you, humiliated and defeated him two months ago? Because Sanji failed at taking him down, that is why.


The burden of proof is still on you. So as I said, and now for the last time: either prove it or drop that topic, we already went over it for weeks and, in the end, it's not even really relevant for the series nor for Sanji's characters.

We see Luffy and Zoro have injuries around their face while Sanji doesn't if it was truly blood, it would stick there, but since we didn't see it for now 2 chapters in a row, it was more debris than actual damage. They are not errors as Oda isn't one to forget in multiple pages in a row on something if he knew he forgot something. Trying to push it notion is going to hurt you more if we see more chapters later still no damage around his face. Oda can forget error one time in chapter, but it won't continue onward. The guy isn't sloppy when he does his artwork and his memory, so not the case and just admit it was debris, not blood.

Kidd, Nami, Macro, and so on weren't in damaging fight we saw him screaming in pain and getting ragdoll like Page One. Those situations are big difference compare to this fight and situation. Not the same thing your trying to push at all. Again if you guys don't have proof about where he been afterwards during 2 weeks and last time we saw him was getting his ass beat, your using more your theories than credible canon statement.

Yet he is chasing down Usopp and Nami for the mocking and damaging them, so again your statement been debunk on that talk that he won't after anyone who hurt or damage him. Also LOL your now putting imagination Sanji couldn't beat PO and yet he show no issue on seeing him again or state 'that guy! oh no!' in being fearful or surprise on seeing him again. If your new theory is that Usopp and Nami are stronger than Sanji, then your credibility in this talk have gone down XD.

Nah I already show points, so now is your turn. give me canon images and statements where he is, not theories like your doing.

 

[goldb]

I'm tired of this of this pointless debate @King Moe bring some proof or concede your point once and for all (that the result of the fight was inconclusive), we're not revisiting this again until the manga does so.

 

[King Moe]

I'm tired of this of this pointless debate @King Moe bring some proof or concede your point once and for all (that the result of the fight was inconclusive), we're not revisiting this again until the manga does so.

I am fine moving on to another talk as let's do that. Though those who doubting PO was defeated don't have proof either. If you guys rather wait for later on to talk again, I am up for it. I want to end this pointless talk as much as any of you.

 

[Nie Li]

The manga heavily implied about him being defeated and never came back until 2 weeks later, so your doubting he would recover in 2 weeks after losing a fight and must have been active and disobeying orders in not helping out? That is kinda stupid seeing he is chasing after anyone who going against the Beast Pirates like Luffy, Yamato, Usopp, and Nami. Doesn't make sense what you doing right now.

Lol not same case at all and now your going back to debunk Vergo stuff and going off topic. I am not playing stuff like that with you. Be honest to admit on proof you have on PO on what he is doing or don't at all and agree to disagree.

Wano is a big place, you're acting as if Page 1 not being near Sanji means he was necessarily in the hospital.

What I said of Vergo was not an attempt to debunk that. I was pointing out how your interpretation of two similar events vary greatly if Sanji is the one dealing damage or the one being hurt.

I brought proof above about Sanji's injuries with imagery in the talks, so Idk what you mean I am 'not bringing proof' when I just did. If imagery isn't proof, then how you want me to showcase proof?

goldb war refering to the P1 thing, not to the King thing.

You did good in posting those last pictures.

 

[goldb]

I am fine moving on to another talk as let's do that. Though those who doubting PO was defeated don't have proof either. If you guys rather wait for later on to talk again, I am up for it. I want to end this pointless talk as much as any of you.

So with that I take it you're conceding your point and we can move on.

It has nothing to do with us waiting but all to do with you proving Page One's defeat using manga panels. Stating that it is "heavily implied" isn't confirmation of anything. A lot of things are heavily implied but they're all theory until proof can be shown. So again, if you can't show a single panel on this, then it's all just your opinion and nothing factual.

 

[King Moe]

Wano is a big place, you're acting as if Page 1 not being near Sanji means he was necessarily in the hospital.

What I said of Vergo was not an attempt to debunk that. I was pointing out how your interpretation of two similar events vary greatly if Sanji is the one dealing damage or the one being hurt.


goldb war refering to the P1 thing, not to the King thing.

You did good in posting those last pictures.

We stopping the talks for now, Moegara. If we can't agree, we can't continue long discussions about it if we can't find common ground. Let's discuss something else and leave this talk for now.

Ah I see, thank you for that.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

So with that I take it you're conceding your point and we can move on.

It has nothing to do with us waiting but all to do with you proving Page One's defeat using manga panels. Stating that it is "heavily implied" isn't confirmation of anything. A lot of things are heavily implied but they're all theory until proof can be shown. So again, if you can't show a single panel on this, then it's all just your opinion and nothing factual.

No, not agreeing. I don't want this be back and forth as it's clear neither will agree on any side. I told you points and even shown imagery of Sanji vs P1 in the past of talks like this in the back. There is no proof PO was active coming back if Drake and Hawkins was around in during mission and he wasn't. I can't show panel of his body on the ground defeated, but neither can you show he was doing anything or something after the fight as we last saw him in 2 weeks later Fire Festival. No one is correct then on neither side, so like you said until we see more on talk in the manga, then it's inconclusive on what happen. Though right now from latest chapter, Sanji isn't facing him nor is he fearful for himself or others around him on seeing again which implies from same guy who face him, he isn't that much of threat to any of them to beat.

 

[goldb]

No, not agreeing. I don't want this be back and forth as it's clear neither will agree on any side. I told you points and even shown imagery of Sanji vs P1 in the past of talks like this in the back. There is no proof PO was active coming back if Drake and Hawkins was around in during mission and he wasn't. I can't show panel of his body on the ground defeated, but neither can you show he was doing anything or something after the fight as we last saw him in 2 weeks later Fire Festival. No one is correct then on neither side, so like you said until we see more on talk in the manga, then it's inconclusive on what happen. Though right now from latest chapter, Sanji isn't facing him nor is he fearful for himself or others around him on seeing again which implies from same guy who face him, he isn't that much of threat to any of them to beat.

We're not talking about right now. If you can't provide panels of his defeat then the fight is inconclusive. That's it.

 

[King Moe]

We're not talking about right now. If you can't provide panels of his defeat then the fight is inconclusive. That's it.

That's what I mean. It's inconclusive on both sides, not one side.

 

[goldb]

That's what I mean. It's inconclusive on both sides, not one side.

NOW you get it! It always inconclusive on both sides .

 

[King Moe]

NOW you get it! It always inconclusive on both sides .

Think we were stating same thing for a bit, just in our own way xD.

 

[goldb]

I don't think we were but at least it's done now and we can put all of this behind us.

 

[Fox666]

If the fight had better choreography and Sanji didn't have such an easy time with a supernova I may not call it disrespectful to Drake.

I know not all supernova need to be of the same strength. Hawkins and Bege in particular have been shown to have tricky powers but to not be just as strong as the rest of them. Apoo, too, would fall into that category since he's all about his tricky DF. However, except for perhaps Killer, all supernova are always represented as being around the same tier and all of them being a possible menace to eachother. None of them is fodder.

Drake in particular all about physical strength, technique and endurance, who even back at Sabaody was able to damage a Pacifista more than G2 Luffy and Zoro could on their own back then.

Him being treated as some random gifter is too much.

Now that I have thought about it

Drake is not of the few Supernovas which bounty new bounty has not been updated yet, and the books still list him as 200 millions

Is that why?

 

[Nie Li]

Now that I have thought about it

Drake is not of the few Supernovas which bounty new bounty has not been updated yet, and the books still list him as 200 millions

Is that why?

I hadn't paid attention to his bounty, you're right. It seems weird, though: wouldn't the fact that he joined Kaido and became one of the highest ranking members among them be enough of a reason for the marines to raise his bounty since he's become more dangerous even if not necessarily stronger? There must be a reason it wasn't raised for two years despite his curriculum getting better.

 

[Fox666]

I hadn't paid attention to his bounty, you're right. It seems weird, though: wouldn't the fact that he joined Kaido and became one of the highest ranking members among them be enough of a reason for the marines to raise his bounty since he's become more dangerous even if not necessarily stronger? There must be a reason it wasn't raised for two years despite his curriculum getting better.

It just wasn't revealed yet

 

[King Moe]

It just wasn't revealed yet

Could be they don't want raise too much given some higher-ups do know he is a spy for them, so not good idea to seem too suspicious on raising his bounty too much, but not too low. Though of course got keep appearances, so maybe it did raise and we will see a reveal later or at least raise after the arc.

 

[XXGenesis]

So are we really going to ignore Sanji falling into yet another Trap by trying to save a fake damsel in distress.

Personally I’m not that mad, it’s just the trolling that Oda does lol, with the cover page and events of the last chapter. It’s hilarious that Sanji would leave Luffy’s side ignore duty for personal morals smh.

Sanji disappointed when he almost died back on FI. That was hell of annoying and childish of Sanji. Idc about his TS training even tho I do feel a lil sad. Sanji needs to control his urges for the opposite sex.

it would be great character development if Sanji learned a ounce of maturity when dealing with the opposite sex. Other than that him n Brook are hilarious