Fantasy Sanji vs. Sai

Shasha23

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My humblest apologies for assuming you actually read Sanji's feats in the Manga before starting a discussion here.



Kek. First you tell me to specify my statements and now you toss something like "getting a beating" into the discussion without specifying it.... Irony much?

1. This is Oven after receiving one base kick from Sanji.


2. This oversized Daifuku getting his attack easily blocked with a no named attack.

Wtf... :fail

Read Luffy vs Pacifista again and you'll see there's 2 type of CoA.

The invisible one and the Buso:Koka (Hardening).

Wtf *again*.

Same Judge that stalled Snack, the former sweet commander, for several hours? Geez.



yes take 1 or 2 panels and ignore everything else, you my friend are ignorant! or maybe your just bad at comprehension and understanding...
It has already long been established if you didn't just read but actually understood the manga that everytime COA is being used it is shaded in black as an indication for us to see, there is no such thing as invisible COA!
 

Eiyuu Yami

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yes take 1 or 2 panels and ignore everything else, you my friend are ignorant! or maybe your just bad at comprehension and understanding...
It has already long been established if you didn't just read but actually understood the manga that everytime COA is being used it is shaded in black as an indication for us to see, there is no such thing as invisible COA!



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There's no shame in purchasing glasses.

Anyway, I won't reply back after this. Enjoy reading Two Piece.
 

M3J

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Smart. No point in discussing things with people whose main comeback to Sanji being strong is "BuT hE bRoKe HiS lEgS aGaInSt VeRgO!!" despite him moving fine afterwards despite the injuries his body took before Vergo, or when they bring up Law beating Vergo and disregarding him using his devil fruit to do so.

As I said though if it came to a haki vs. haki clash, Sai would win. overall though, I'm not really sure here, but I know it'd be close if we were to believe Sai's hype. Wish I could clearly and cleanly say Sanji, but there's no basis for that.
 

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Smart. No point in discussing things with people whose main comeback to Sanji being strong is "BuT hE bRoKe HiS lEgS aGaInSt VeRgO!!" despite him moving fine afterwards despite the injuries his body took before Vergo, or when they bring up Law beating Vergo and disregarding him using his devil fruit to do so.

As I said though if it came to a haki vs. haki clash, Sai would win. overall though, I'm not really sure here, but I know it'd be close if we were to believe Sai's hype. Wish I could clearly and cleanly say Sanji, but there's no basis for that.
I agree Sai has the better CoA for now but in a head-on fight he simply can't keep up with Sanji.

Sanji outspeeded Vergo in a direct confrontation

and also dodged Vergo's kicks from point blank range.



Here is Law's performance against Vergo's speed:



He was overwhelming fast against Oven as well.

On top of his fast reflexes and speed he also has CoO, which was enough to dodge an assassinsnation attempt by Katakuri.
 

Shasha23

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.
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There's no shame in purchasing glasses.

Anyway, I won't reply back after this. Enjoy reading Two Piece.
The pics with Luffy and Cc clearly show Luffy's gloves in black, but i guess you cant see it.
That panel of Pekoms is a mistake, Oda makes them from time to time if you didn't know, from now on let me tell you:
COA dark shading
COO a star just above the characters eyes and a close zoom in on their eyes.

!!!!don't just read, but read to understand!!!!
 

M3J

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I agree Sai has the better CoA for now but in a head-on fight he simply can't keep up with Sanji.

Sanji outspeeded Vergo in a direct confrontation

and also dodged Vergo's kicks from point blank range.



Here is Law's performance against Vergo's speed:



He was overwhelming fast against Oven as well.

On top of his fast reflexes and speed he also has CoO, which was enough to dodge an assassinsnation attempt by Katakuri.
Does Sai have any speed feat? Can't be assed to read a quarter of the arc just for that info
 

Eiyuu Yami

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Does Sai have any speed feat? Can't be assed to read a quarter of the arc just for that info
Nothing noteworthy. He was able to keep up with Lao-G and Ideo but that's nothing impressive...

Btw, he got K.O-ed from one base G2 kick..........


Tbh, saying he pushes Sanji to a mid diff is already generous asf. :shrug:
 

M3J

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Wouldn't that be for gag reasons? I remember him taking beatings during the climax and still fighting.
 

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Wouldn't that be for gag reasons? I remember him taking beatings during the climax and still fighting.
You can reread his fight in chapter 771. He doesn't have any particular feat that would make me think his durability/endurance raised significantly after the tournament.

Point could be made that he now can defend with Koka, instead of just simple CoA but against a speedster like Sanji he won't last long either way. :hi
 

Takuan

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I would probably have said Sai > Sanji a while ago, but after Whole Cake Island Sanji got some new feats that put him over Sai. Despite Sanji not showing much overall, he still showed much more than Sai. He has more speed, more defense, and arguably more offense. Sanji wins.
 

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more offense than sai?
Sai was making large scale attack , comparable to g4.
1 shot a 500 million sharp headed chinjao.
Was noted to have incredible destruction power even by zoro who would later on slice the giant pica
 

XXGenesis

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Sai was caught off guard by a G2 Luffy and was knocked outta bounce, he was very much ok talking in the water afterwards....We then see him show more destructive power than Sanji so far with his Signature CoA Kick & Lao G wasnt actually that weak. He was old but in his younger days i can see him being pretty strong
 

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Sai has better armament haki feats but Sanji's speed feats shits on Sai's speed feats. Sai also has shit observation haki considering he got caught off guard in a battle royal. Sanji's observation haki is arguably the best next to Luffy on the crew.

Sanji wins due to overwhelming difference in speed alone
 

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Sai has better armament haki feats but Sanji's speed feats shits on Sai's speed feats. Sai also has shit observation haki considering he got caught off guard in a battle royal. Sanji's observation haki is arguably the best next to Luffy on the crew.

Sanji wins due to overwhelming difference in speed alone
you made it sound like sai couldn't react to any kind of fast attack
he was fast enough to get baby 5 away from pica attacks.

also using the "overwhelming difference" logic, it also can be said that sai wins due to overwhelming difference in power
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You can reread his fight in chapter 771. He doesn't have any particular feat that would make me think his durability/endurance raised significantly after the tournament.

Point could be made that he now can defend with Koka, instead of just simple CoA but against a speedster like Sanji he won't last long either way. :hi
well, sanji doesn't have a good health record for his legs when he fought someone using koka, seemed like you were the one who need to read back all sanji's feats before you posted here
 

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you made it sound like sai couldn't react to any kind of fast attack
he was fast enough to get baby 5 away from pica attacks.

also using the "overwhelming difference" logic, it also can be said that sai wins due to overwhelming difference in power
I don't remember dressrosa that much but I do remember Pica being one of if not the slowest executives. Show me some decent Sai speed feats.
Sanji has:
-Dodged point blank attacks from Vergo and also overwhelm him in CQC
-Dodged an attack from a desperate Katakuri which even left him surprised
-Instantly kicked Oven while grabbing Chiffon and then vanished before people knew what happened

Overwhelming power means shit if you can't hit your opponent. Also the gap between their strength isn't that exaggerated. Since the timeskip Sanji's gotten praise from people like Zoro and Doflamingo about his strength, he one shot Wadatsumi with hell memories which is a better AOE feat than any of Sai's AOE feats, he helped block Big Mom's attack with Luffy, he sent one of Big Mom's top fighters Oven flying, he's casually blocked attacks from Daifuku, he off paneled Yonji, etc. I could easily make a case on why Sanji is physically stronger than Sai based on his WCI feats alone but it's irrelevant because like I said Sanji already dominates Sai in speed.
 

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Overwhelming power means shit if you can't hit your opponent.
Depends really. Cell vs. Trunks yes. Gregor Clegane vs. Oberyn Martell no. Thats why this is a real good matchup. One Misstep and its over for our cook.
 

Shasha23

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I don't remember dressrosa that much but I do remember Pica being one of if not the slowest executives. Show me some decent Sai speed feats.
Sanji has:
-Dodged point blank attacks from Vergo and also overwhelm him in CQC
-Dodged an attack from a desperate Katakuri which even left him surprised
-Instantly kicked Oven while grabbing Chiffon and then vanished before people knew what happened

Overwhelming power means shit if you can't hit your opponent. Also the gap between their strength isn't that exaggerated. Since the timeskip Sanji's gotten praise from people like Zoro and Doflamingo about his strength, he one shot Wadatsumi with hell memories which is a better AOE feat than any of Sai's AOE feats, he helped block Big Mom's attack with Luffy, he sent one of Big Mom's top fighters Oven flying, he's casually blocked attacks from Daifuku, he off paneled Yonji, etc. I could easily make a case on why Sanji is physically stronger than Sai based on his WCI feats alone but it's irrelevant because like I said Sanji already dominates Sai in speed.
Pica was by far the fastest character in Dressrosa, being able to move from level 2 to sunflower field to the kings plateau in mere seconds, while he was standing on top of rock/solid earth no one could match him from the characters that were there on that island!

-Vergo-san didnt bother dodging much, and saying something like Sanji overwhelmed him is very far from the truth
-Sanji was expecting to be shot at any moment his guard was way up
-Oven was distracted, same thing happened with Sai.

Well Sanji hasnt shown any destructive feats that would warrant him being able to seriously damage Sai, while Sai on the other hand only need to land 1 hit, i dont remember Zoro praising Sanji's strength please clarify when this happened and Doffy wasn't praising Sanji's strength he was making fun of him, that is his character, he makes fun of every opponent he faces so they can make mistakes Law said this multiple times to Luffy!

The fight for me would be closer than what you think and of cause when this thread started Sai was clearly above Sanji but after WCI Sanji has pulled ahead as you have said albeit overexerted!
 

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I don't remember dressrosa that much but I do remember Pica being one of if not the slowest executives.
citation needed.

Show me some decent Sai speed feats.
Sanji has:
-Dodged point blank attacks from Vergo and also overwhelm him in CQC
-Dodged an attack from a desperate Katakuri which even left him surprised
-Instantly kicked Oven while grabbing Chiffon and then vanished before people knew what happened
.
i already showed you. Sai had fast reaction to protect baby 5 from pica's surprise attack.
Also, remember when lao g blitzing the 500 million belli chin jao? And then sai easily deflected that lao g attack and finished him off?
That's a speed feat you wouldn't want to understimate.

those first two point doesn't prove sanji speed. That is CoO , unrelated to speed.
The third point is also wrong. Pudding , who is not even an elite fighter, can detect sanji attacking oven. Oven was just caught off guard since he was focused on beating chiffon.

Overwhelming power means shit if you can't hit your opponent
well , i can also say that overwhelming speed means shit if it tickles.

Doflamingo about his strength
lol doflamingo wasn't even using hardened haki to defend against sanji's attacks
Doflamingo was thrown away from g2 attacks and he said it was weak. Doflamingo wasn't even moved a bit from all of sanji kicks.
Sai was one shotting Lao G, the guy who one shot a 500 million guy.
 

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Pica was by far the fastest character in Dressrosa, being able to move from level 2 to sunflower field to the kings plateau in mere seconds, while he was standing on top of rock/solid earth no one could match him from the characters that were there on that island!
Pica's attacks were slow due to how huge he was lol. Yes he can travel places faster because of his sheer size but his attacks were basically slow motion. Every time he threw a punch characters had like all the time in the world to react.

-Vergo-san didnt bother dodging much, and saying something like Sanji overwhelmed him is very far from the truth
"Didn't bother dodging much" Oh yeah my bad, Vergo just felt like getting kicked around. Sanji sent him flying twice while Vergo never actually tagged Sanji, how is saying that he got overwhelmed far from the truth?
-Sanji was expecting to be shot at any moment his guard was way up
And?
-Oven was distracted, same thing happened with Sai.
Not my point. The fact that he was able to disappear, send Oven flying, grab Chiffon, and disappear again all without people around even seeing him is an impressive speed feat.

Well Sanji hasnt shown any destructive feats that would warrant him being able to seriously damage Sai, while Sai on the other hand only need to land 1 hit, i dont remember Zoro praising Sanji's strength please clarify when this happened and Doffy wasn't praising Sanji's strength he was making fun of him, that is his character, he makes fun of every opponent he faces so they can make mistakes Law said this multiple times to Luffy!
What are Sai's durability feats? One hit? So Doflamingo couldn't one shot Sanji but Sai can? It's not in Doflamingo's character to praise people he thinks are weak. He's a master at manipulation during fights, why would praising Sanji help him in anyway to get at Sanji's feelings? It's not that hard to differentiate between sarcasm and actual praise. Zoro praising Sanji was actually anime only, my bad.
citation needed.
What?

i already showed you. Sai had fast reaction to protect baby 5 from pica's surprise attack.
You didn't show me anything, you mentioned it and I told you that even tho my Dressrosa knowledge is limited I do remember Pica's attacks being slow.
Also, remember when lao g blitzing the 500 million belli chin jao? And then sai easily deflected that lao g attack and finished him off?
That's a speed feat you wouldn't want to understimate.
You say 500 million beli like bounties actually indicate strength alone. Sanji has a higher bounty than Zoro btw lol. Chinjao's a huge target plus he was hit off guard, it wasn't that impressive. Plus Sai deflecting Lao G is an indication of a decent reaction speed feat not a movement speed feat.

those first two point doesn't prove sanji speed. That is CoO , unrelated to speed.
The third point is also wrong. Pudding , who is not even an elite fighter, can detect sanji attacking oven. Oven was just caught off guard since he was focused on beating chiffon.
How is dodging an attack AT POINT BLANK not a speed feat? Plus you realize that even if you have good CoO you still need to actually be fast to dodge attacks, right? Why do you think Luffy was able to beat the shit out of the snake sisters even tho they had CoO? Katakuri's attacks are nothing to scoff at, even if his jellybeans aren't destructive the fact that he was desperate to kill Sanji yet Sanji still dodged his attack is a good speed feat. Pudding knowing that Sanji saved Chiffon doesn't mean she was able to follow the entire confrontation with her eyes lol. He was with her one second then he vanished the next plus she knows how chivalrous and strong he is anyway, Sanji was the most obvious answer as to who saved Chiffon.

well , i can also say that overwhelming speed means shit if it tickles.
Show me those amazing Sai durability feats that prove that Sanji's best attacks would tickle him. :lmao

lol doflamingo wasn't even using hardened haki to defend against sanji's attacks
Doflamingo was thrown away from g2 attacks and he said it was weak. Doflamingo wasn't even moved a bit from all of sanji kicks.
Sai was one shotting Lao G, the guy who one shot a 500 million guy.
The fight was too short, it's not like Sanji was hitting him with his heavy hitters. The only time a G2 attack that wasn't red hawk sent doffy flying was post gamma knife law. Lao G was an old man with no durability feats prior to getting one shot by Sai, he was most likely a glass cannon. Also Lao G didn't even one shot Chinjao. Not only did Chinjao already take a crazy amount of damage prior to getting taken out but he was also hit off guard. Again you mention Chinjao's old bounty like it indicates his current strength.

EDIT: Oh yeah, another impressive speed feat that Sanji has over Sai: he was able to intercept a bloodlusted Doflamingo and cause him to block his attack at the very last second.
 
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Shasha23

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Pica's attacks were slow due to how huge he was lol. Yes he can travel places faster because of his sheer size but his attacks were basically slow motion. Every time he threw a punch characters had like all the time in the world to react.
Nope his cherry stone attack was able to attack anyone everywhere on that mountain at the same time, i wouldn't call such attacks slow, some of his attacks caught out Luffy too, i wouldn't call his attacks slow, he was just unlucky to be up against someone much higher level than him.
Yes his punches at golem Pica where slow but they were almost impossible to dodge since they covered a size of a city

Also next time you say a character is slow specify what you mean because the way you said it implied he as a character was slow when he wasn't!

"Didn't bother dodging much" Oh yeah my bad, Vergo just felt like getting kicked around. Sanji sent him flying twice while Vergo never actually tagged Sanji, how is saying that he got overwhelmed far from the truth?
Do you remember him talking while Law was busy attacking him, or when even Smoker was attacking him and the guy already showed feats he is able to keep up with Law's teleportation, but not once in his fight with Sanji, Law or Smoker did he ever bother to dodge anything even though his speed was higher than the 3 of them, do you know what overwhelmed"means, look it up and tell me how you think that was Sanji overwhelming Vergo......

Dont need to explain this since my previous statement said it all!

Not my point. The fact that he was able to disappear, send Oven flying, grab Chiffon, and disappear again all without people around even seeing him is an impressive speed feat.
im not refuting that, the fact is he wouldn't have been able to if Oven wasn't distracted!

What are Sai's durability feats? One hit? So Doflamingo couldn't one shot Sanji but Sai can? It's not in Doflamingo's character to praise people he thinks are weak. He's a master at manipulation during fights, why would praising Sanji help him in anyway to get at Sanji's feelings? It's not that hard to differentiate between sarcasm and actual praise. Zoro praising Sanji was actually anime only, my bad.
Sai tanked hits from Lao G and Pica and Sanji has not shown to be able to tank such levels of damage, a simple unnamed punch from Luffy was enough to make him bleed out and cough out in pain, while Sai took a G2 punch that didn't even faze him.
Did you not see him praising Sanji which made him get Sanji in his web easily, and this is Sanji someone who i believe is better at detecting attacks better than Luffy and Zoro, that is how Doffy is and thinking otherwise is plain ridiculous!
Or is praising someone who is attacking you with their strongest attack while laughing and not even using COA to block a sign of being serious for you?
 
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