Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

[DEATHBOTT]

I suppose that saying that Shanks is not a swordman just because Mihawk holds the title of the strongest swordman is a "bad argument"...

yep. he may be a swordsman and infact stronger than mihawk but just not beaten or even fought with mihawk since he aquired the title.

 

[BlackHair]

If Mihawk is beaten by a swordsman (= those who are dedicated to swordsmanship and who use that as the only main fighting style in their battles), then surely that title will be passed on.

However the current strongest swordsman is Mihawk. Shanks may have not fought him recently, but that does mean a crap. Mihawk's title is more than a title. By now it is a fact by ODA.

My reasons to call Mihawk's title a fact: Zoro vs Mihawk, this battle is one of the most anticipated battles in OP, for over 10 years now fans are waiting to see that battle. It is the fist predicted battle in OP. Now ask urself, would Oda switch the strongest swordsman with Shanks or any other character after 10 years of build up? We are not only talking about switching the titleholder, but also the goal of one of our protagonists.

Shanks so far is only portrayed equal to Mihawk, but we have no reasons to believe that he is superior to Mihawk.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Swordmen are people that fight in a certain way. They challenge themselves about their swordman abilities and nothing else.
So if it comes to a fight between swordmen, Mihawks will definitely be the winner and Shanks would lose because Mihawks is the strongest swordman.

What does we know about Shanks ? He was a swordman that used to fight against Mihawks. After he lost his arm, they stopped fighting.
I doubt it is because he became too weak, since he is a member of the Yonkou. I think Mihawks is not interested in Shanks anymore because he has given up the way of the sword. Shanks still have his swordman skills - and that's why he still used a sword to fight - but he also got new skills which has nothing to do with the sword. After he lost his arm, he decided to develop new fighting technics and stopped trying to be a stronger and stronger swordman.

So Shanks could be stronger than Mihawks - like Whitebeard likely was - but he would lose in a swordman fight against Mihawks.

 

[BlackHair]

That would only work if Shanks was not a swordsman. But as far as we know he is a swordsman, while there is not even a single hint pointing sth different.

 

[Captain-Awesome]

That's your thought, but what's your argument in this confrontation? Whom are you siding with?

And for your information: Shanks has Hakusho Haki.

I think shanks would win in a fair battle but, That doesn't mean Mihawk will be a pushover. The reason i think shanks will win is that he isn't a swordman anymore he still uses his sword but i think he he is focusing on something else something with his haki. It's just a fact that he can't be a stronger swordman with just ONE arm and to be a stronger pirate ( A yonkou) He needed something else and I think we will see that something else in the future. And I am not a shanks fanboy or something, i mean i like him more but i also like mihawk but in a other way.

---

That's your thought, but what's your argument in this confrontation? Whom are you siding with?

And for your information: Shanks has Hakusho Haki.

I just wasnt's sure about that Hakusho Haki part cus I thought there were some issues with the translation or something

 

[Fox666]

yep. he may be a swordsman and infact stronger than mihawk but just not beaten or even fought with mihawk since he aquired the title.

Well, how many times we saw something like that? One Piece is not like Bleach, which there is always someone with a low rank who is hiding his secret high rank power...

 

[DEATHBOTT]

Well, how many times we saw something like that? One Piece is not like Bleach, which there is always someone with a low rank who is hiding his secret high rank power...

we havnt seen his power. he is not hideing it, but it is possible he is stronger than mihawk and just hasnt fought him since mihawk gained the title. and he is hardly low rank. im not suggesting there is some rookie out there who is stronger than mihawk but hasnt faced him and taken the title.

 

[Schabrak]

That would only work if Shanks was not a swordsman. But as far as we know he is a swordsman, while there is not even a single hint pointing sth different.

Just wanted to add that Shanks was not shown using something different like his fists or a gun. He is a swordsman, who has to use haki to be able to fight logia users. If he were to use two swords to confront a fast moving enemy, he would still be a swordsman too. He has to adapt to the opponent, like Luffy is with all his past encounters.

It's the same with Mihawk, he uses massive shockwave slashes to reach things far away, would it make him a shockwave fighter? No it wouldn't.

 

[Antares]

Fox666,

I suppose that saying that Shanks is not a swordman just because Mihawk holds the title of the strongest swordman is a "bad argument"...

Not admitting that one Yonkou is a little bit stronger than one Shichibukai is also a bad argument. And really, what i was saying is that swordsman is not Shanks' main skill.

Schabrak

It's the same with Mihawk, he uses massive shockwave slashes to reach things far away, would it make him a shockwave fighter? No it wouldn't.

The shockwave was generated by his sword skill, not the other way around. Whitebeard was aware of Shanks' haki at the moby dick, not his sword.

BlackHair,

What do you mean by "no matter which way"?! ...
Do you honestly expect major forces like MHQ (Sengoku), WB Alliance (Marco) and BB Pirates (BB) would listen to Shanks words if he was a SOLE man? Can't you see his freaking crew behind his back?

Not as a sole man. even if his crew was put into the equation into all sides backing off, it means shanks as an individual is equal to old whitebeard and current bb. Again, please read this post of mine

Let's keep it simple. WB pirates + ally had only maximum 5 individuals at Shichi level. Marco, Jozu, Vista, Jimbei, Crocodile. They also had 1 last-tier level individual, which was WB.

In the Red-Hair pirates' challenge vs everyone situation, how many Red-Hair pirates who were Shichi level at most? Ben Beckmann, Yasopp, Lucky Roux? 3-5, maybe? There can't be much more than WB's commanders (Marco, Jozu, Vista). How would everyone stop engaging in this war? In the opposite there were

Wounded fatally to incapacitated or dead:
-Luffy
-Ace
-Jozu
-Jimbei
-a portion of WB commanders
-a portion of non-fodder WB allies
-a portion of non-fodder marines (including vice admiral ronse and giant john)

Wounded moderately or heavily but can still fight:
-Super BB (who keep his cool and optimistic belief that he could eliminate Sengoku and Garp anyway and NO ONE could stop him)
-Akainu
-Marco
-Moria
-a portion of WB commanders
-a portion of non-fodder WB allies
-a portion of non-fodder marines (including most vice admirals)

Wounded mildly to unscratched:
-Sengoku
-Garp
-Kizaru
-Aokiji
-most of Pacifistas (of how many? TWENTY? THIRTY? And one pacifista equals what, level 5 impel down prisoner?)
-Mihawk
-Doflamingo
-Kuma
-Sentoumaru
-a portion of WB commanders
-a portion of non-fodder marines
-a portion of vice admirals

Two last-tier characters from the marines were practically unsctratched, and one more last-tier character who was wounded (super BB), still believed he could take those two unscratched last-tier characters, because of his new-found power. However "fresh and ready to go" Red-Hair pirates were, they were suicidal to challenge this magnitude of power culmination. Even one more Marco-level character in Red-Hair pirates (if Shanks was Marco's tier) would not matter at all. At all.The only factor the Red-Hair pirates could rely on to be confident in challenging all sides, is that if there would be at least one person, like WB who was the most reliable in WB pirates, who could match equally those three last-tier and tens of Shichibukai level opponents.

and read this post (the bolded part is the 'no matter which way'):

No matter which way, whether it's Shanks that stopped the war or Red-Hair Pirates that stopped the war, it meant Shanks as an individual was equal to current BB.

Old Whitebeard, one Yonkou and his crew and allies, put a heck of a fight against Marines + Shichibukai. Both sides were heavily wounded. The Marines and Shichibukai didn't win by a big margin. The margin is small. New world allies' role is practically slim. One ally, Squardo, even gave Marine one advantage score by stabbing Pops through his heart, worsened by one more rip by Akainu, a condition equal to Ace's death wound in his chest. But still Pops and crew put such a major damage to Marines. This result showed that just one Yonkou and his crew is equal to Marine or 7 Shichibukai. Which lead to a conclusion that 4 Yonkou = Marine + 7 Shichibukai is true. Because the four emperors together, form a balance within the four of them, the conclusion is that each Yonkou, not only as a whole, but as an individual, is equal to each other. How can there be a balance between four Yonkou, if each one of four was not equal to each other?

In the past, there were Gol D. Roger and Whitebeard as gold medalists. In the "present" (after Roger's death and before Pops' death) there were Yonkou, a balance of power formed by 4 most powerful pirates. The balance could happen as a balance because Pops was weakened, otherwise there would be no Yonkou but just one emperor, Whitebeard.

If just one Yonkou and his crew could made those powers back off, then it means both balance equations (4 Yonkou is balancing, which means equal to, each other), (4 Yonkou = Marine + 7 Shichi), is true. And it is true. Shanks = old WB = Garp = Sengoku = super BB. All last tier pirates.

I dont see a comparison in this. While Mihawk stands on the top among swordsman, Shanks does not stand on the top among pirates.

While Shanks is one of four strongest pirates, Mihawk is not. While Shanks showed equal power in his blow against Old Whitebeard in Moby Dick, Mihawk showed equal power in his blow against Crocodile (Oh yep, they are at the same level, which is Shichibukai level). While Shanks fend off Akainu (oh yeah, an admiral who was attacked by both angry Marco and angry Vista without apparent damage in his logia body) and thus make the Red Dog shocked, Mihawk couldn't break through one of WB's commanders's defense, Vista.

btw I can't remember Oda saying that Shanks wants to be the PK. So not sure why you did include Shanks in the first place.

I'm sure you understand my meaning. Mihawk motivated Zoro to challenge him after he's stronger, and Shanks told Luffy to return his strawhat after he's become a real pirate. Mihawk to Zoro is Shanks to Luffy.

Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, means in the current timeline he can beat any other swordsman in a fair 1vs1

...in a swordfight, meaning a fight using a blade of same calibre, and more importantly, without any other discipline of fighting skill.

If you want to prove Shanks superiority then try to prove that he is NOT a swordsman.

I don't need to. Shanks is a swordsman. But swordsmanship is not his main skill. That's why in a swordfight, Shanks is weaker, but in a fight to the death, Shanks is stronger.

Last but not least, Shanks appearing on the war didn't proofed anything towards his superiority to Mihawk. If anything then plz note that he again pulled his sword. Which only supports the theory that he is a swordsman, means weaker than Mihawk.

Shanks appearing on the war didn't proofed anything? BB and Sengoku and Garp, THREE last tier characters suddenly respect Shanks and listen to him while in madness war mode a second ago? Didn't proof anything? Okay, so Mihawk's title didn't proof anything, and his equal blow to Croc and Vista didn't proof anything also? Mihawk's really strong, he's the world number one swordsman, but he's equal to Croc and Vista, as was expected of a Shichibukai. WB, Dragon (who has Kuma as his subordinates, so obviously more powerful than a Shichi), Garp and Sengoku (two most powerful Marines) and three other Yonkou, is stronger. Which means Shanks with his main skill, even it's a little bit, is stronger.

 

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

I really don't understand why this argument is still going on. Mihawk doesn't seem to be any stronger than his Shichibukai brothers. It doesn't matter what type of fighter Shanks is, his power definitely goes beyond that of any shichibukai.

 

[Poneglyph420]

I really don't understand why this argument is still going on. Mihawk doesn't seem to be any stronger than his Shichibukai brothers. It doesn't matter what type of fighter Shanks is, his power definitely goes beyond that of any shichibukai.

Agreed. Simply put Shanks would be able to make a victory out of any struggle with Mihawk IMO. I have seen Mihawk to some amazing things and was clearly able to handle WB's commanders.. But I'd assume Shanks would be able to beat him pretty much anytime.

and he'd still just be Shanks.

 

[Fox666]

Not admitting that one Yonkou is a little bit stronger than one Shichibukai is also a bad argument. And really, what i was saying is that swordsman is not Shanks' main skill.

No, it's not.

What you are saying is, in the best case, the same as saying "CAPTAIN Smoker is weaker than COMMODORE Purin-Purin".

Old Whitebeard, one Yonkou and his crew and allies, put a heck of a fight against Marines + Shichibukai. Both sides were heavily wounded. The Marines and Shichibukai didn't win by a big margin. The margin is small. New world allies' role is practically slim. One ally, Squardo, even gave Marine one advantage score by stabbing Pops through his heart, worsened by one more rip by Akainu, a condition equal to Ace's death wound in his chest. But still Pops and crew put such a major damage to Marines. This result showed that just one Yonkou and his crew is equal to Marine or 7 Shichibukai. Which lead to a conclusion that 4 Yonkou = Marine + 7 Shichibukai is true. Because the four emperors together, form a balance within the four of them, the conclusion is that each Yonkou, not only as a whole, but as an individual, is equal to each other. How can there be a balance between four Yonkou, if each one of four was not equal to each other?

In the past, there were Gol D. Roger and Whitebeard as gold medalists. In the "present" (after Roger's death and before Pops' death) there were Yonkou, a balance of power formed by 4 most powerful pirates. The balance could happen as a balance because Pops was weakened, otherwise there would be no Yonkou but just one emperor, Whitebeard.

First of all, you "remembered" that Squard betrayed Whitebeard, but you "forged" that half of the Shichibukai betrayed the World Government.

We have 4 Shichibukais against the government (two of them risking their lifes), and 4 in the government side that don't care about the war. Now calculate it.

Second, Whitebeard had the New World captains in his side. Their hole may not been huge, but that doesn't change it. It was not just a Yonkou. And with the prisoners from Impel Down...

And it is true. Shanks = old WB = Garp = Sengoku = super BB. All last tier pirates.

Shanks appearing on the war didn't proofed anything? BB and Sengoku and Garp, THREE last tier characters suddenly respect Shanks and listen to him while in madness war mode a second ago? Didn't proof anything? Okay, so Mihawk's title didn't proof anything, and his equal blow to Croc and Vista didn't proof anything also? Mihawk's really strong, he's the world number one swordsman, but he's equal to Croc and Vista, as was expected of a Shichibukai. WB, Dragon (who has Kuma as his subordinates, so obviously more powerful than a Shichi), Garp and Sengoku (two most powerful Marines) and three other Yonkou, is stronger. Which means Shanks with his main skill, even it's a little bit, is stronger.

Whitebeard tie with Aokiji. Jozu injured Aokiji.

By logic: Jozu >>> Whitebeard

Don't do that. Marineford war was a big mess.

 

[Schabrak]

I really don't understand why this argument is still going on. Mihawk doesn't seem to be any stronger than his Shichibukai brothers. It doesn't matter what type of fighter Shanks is, his power definitely goes beyond that of any shichibukai.

Where does it show him ruling over every Shichibukai? Nowhere, not over Mihawk nor Doflamingo.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

I really don't understand why this argument is still going on. Mihawk doesn't seem to be any stronger than his Shichibukai brothers. It doesn't matter what type of fighter Shanks is, his power definitely goes beyond that of any shichibukai.

sorry but your argument is weak . you said he seems weak , is that everything ? have you seen him in a battle against any other opponents including shichibukais ? ofcourse not , its been said like 100s of times , we judge people baised on what they are known for , facts , titles , can you deny roger was called PK for nothing ? i believe not , mihawk is the world's best swordsman , end of story , bye bye .

 

[hibar90]

Shicibukai are pirates that sides with the WG. Their power level could vary like heaven and earth. If Shank decided to join WG as a pirate, then he too would be shichibukai. They are different from admirals who work their way up. There is no rank or training for shichibukai. Now I do personally think that Shank "should" be stronger or able to win 1v1 fight. However, so far he has not shown any ability other than swordmanship. Of course in the future this can be change, but atm Mihawk is world strongest swordsman. By default that makes him stronger than Shank.

 

[BlackHair]

(Oh yep, they are at the same level, which is Shichibukai level).

I really don't understand why this argument is still going on. Mihawk doesn't seem to be any stronger than his Shichibukai brothers. It doesn't matter what type of fighter Shanks is, his power definitely goes beyond that of any shichibukai.

Agreed. Simply put Shanks would be able to make a victory out of any struggle with Mihawk IMO. I have seen Mihawk to some amazing things and was clearly able to handle WB's commanders.. But I'd assume Shanks would be able to beat him pretty much anytime.

and he'd still just be Shanks.

There is no such thing as Shichi LvL!! They are gathered for their fame. It's not like the MHQ did some fighting measurement to estimate each Shichi's strength.

Flamingo erasing Moria is the best damn proof. Each Sichi are individuals from mid tier lvl to high tier lvl. If you all put them in one basket, then u guys are claiming that Moria is equal to Kuma...Not to mention that on the battlefield Jinbei one-hitted Moria. How the hell can you guys put those 7 (8) on the same tier? Sry but I fail t see a logic behind this.

Shanks is a swordsman. But swordsmanship is not his main skill. That's why in a swordfight, Shanks is weaker, but in a fight to the death, Shanks is stronger.

You are not making any sense. Calling Shanks a swordsman, but at the same time claiming that swordsmanship is not his main fighting style...U just contradicted urself. Or did u see Zoro in his seriois battles using anything except his sword?

Anyway, care to backup ur claim with the manga? Plz post me some pages where it is hinted that Shanks is not a swordsman. I give a damn for ur assumption, all I care is for manga basics.

Okay, so Mihawk's title didn't proof anything, and his equal blow to Croc and Vista didn't proof anything also? Mihawk's really strong, he's the world number one swordsman, but he's equal to Croc and Vista, as was expected of a Shichibukai.

Now this paragraph of ur post proofed that u have no idea. You can't even value Mihawks character in the story, claiming he to be on pair with someone who was beaten mid way through the story. Anyone with a shred of knowledge of shounen manga, would agree to the simple fact that Mihawk is last tier calibre. I will give u two hints:

• Mihawk is Zoro's goal. The goal of our protagonist.
• Oda needs him plot-wise for later story.

Firstly, do u honestly believe Oda would make Zoro's life goal only as strong as a mid tier class? We are talking about some1 who will eventually surpass prime-Rayleigh. Therefore his opponent (Mihawk) needs to be extremely strong as well.

Secondly, Oda needs Mihawk for his battle with Zoro. Out of that reason he couldn't let him all go out. There is a reason why he left the battle without any signs of exhaustion and scratches.

Lastly, plz read my first part of this post, addressed to the Shichi lvl.

Shanks appearing on the war didn't proofed anything? BB and Sengoku and Garp, THREE last tier characters suddenly respect Shanks and listen to him while in madness war mode a second ago?

No it didn't. WE ALREADY KNEW HE WAS A YONKO!!

I won't repeat my arguments. Just that this thread is about Mihawk vs Shanks, a fair 1vs1. Don't bring up any arguments in which his crew is involved. Shanks presence on the battlefield was with his crew. The power balance Yonko, MHQ and 7Gods is also involved with his crew. Shanks would be without his crew just a single high tier fighter, just like Mihawk.

Get it in ur brain already -> this thread = 1vs1 !!


Antares, ur whole logic fails hard, 'coz:

1. You claim a existence of sth like Shichi lvl
2. Stating Shanks as a swordsman, yet saying that swordsmanship is not his main fighting style
3. Putting Shanks above Mihawk based on his crew achievements

 

[DEATHBOTT]

you can be a swordsman and rely on other skills aswell. if you start useing other skills aswell it doesnt magically take away your sword skills.

 

[BlackHair]

But you can't call urself swordsman anymore. A swordsman is dedicated to his swordsmanship and will use that to fight opponents.

Zoro as a true swordsman has until now only used swordsmanship to fight opponents. We never saw him using any other techniques/weapons. Same should apply for any other swordsman.

Nightmare Luffy and Whitebeard were shown to have some skills in swordsmanship. But are those guys now swordsman? Hell no! WB was a quake-man and Nightmare Luffy was a rubber-man.

Mihawk is confirmed to be a swordsman. Shanks is hinted to be a swordsman. True there is possibility he discarded swordsmanship as he lost his arm. But he is still portrayed with a sword.

 

[DEATHBOTT]

But you can't call urself swordsman anymore. A swordsman is dedicated to his swordsmanship and will use that to fight opponents.

Zoro as a true swordsman has until now only used swordsmanship to fight opponents. We never saw him using any other techniques/weapons. Same should apply for any other swordsman.

Nightmare Luffy and Whitebeard were shown to have some skills in swordsmanship. But are those guys now swordsman? Hell no! WB was a quake-man and Nightmare Luffy was a rubber-man.

Mihawk is confirmed to be a swordsman. Shanks is hinted to be a swordsman. True there is possibility he discarded swordsmanship as he lost his arm. But he is still portrayed with a sword.

really? i cant be called a swordsman, even if im a master at sword fighting, just because i also fire lazers out of my eyes?

i would call nightmare luffy a swordsman and a devil fruit user. wb is a bisento user, a df user and a haki user. mihawk is a swordsman and a haki user(probably) and shanks is a swordsman, a haki user and maybe something else.

 

[BlackHair]

WB is a quake-man (panel 5) and Luffy a rubber man (panel 4). Im not interested in further explaining, since it was already discussed.

About swordsmanship, it is similar to Sanji's fighting style. He as a cook, won't use his hands. Same for swordsman, who will only use blades. It's a matter of pride, determination and commitment.