Special Move Techniques Discussion

[Phantron]

Tohno is the only G10 member who is shown visibly tired in a match against a MS. Sure his partner probably is just chilling the whole time but it still implies using the high powered execution techs wears you out a lot. Given that G10 members are described as having unfathomably better base stat compared to MS, it is even possible you're trading stamina at a negative ratio (i.e. whatever damage you do to the enemy, you do more to yourself). For a point of reference, thus far all the high tier HS guys outlasted Atobe, the king of endurance, and often very comfortably (they're usually barely sweating). So the fact that Tohno gets tired playing two MS players who are certainly not known for being great at endurance means the execution tech tires him out a lot.

Now the high number ones he can probably use them forever but Marui had no problem returning/dodging those, so Marui isn't a top tier character at least not compared to say, Atobe.

I can see you use these techs if you've a game in the bag and you just want to torture the other guy, though I don't think you need any special techs to pull that off if you just want to beat up an opponent that's losing. Devil form Kirihara does that fine too, and presumably it can't be that hard just smashing the ball into someone's face repeatedly when you've total control. Yes execution techs lets you hit the ball to places other than the face for variety, but if you just want to beat someone up I think smashing the ball in their face works just fine.

The major problem I see is that it looks like the execution techs progressively uses more energy the lower number they go (you can see Tohno gets more tired as the numbers go lower) but aside from having different ways to splatter blood, it's not clear to me if tech #1 really does more damage than say, tech #8.

 

[Brandnewkid]

Tohno is the only G10 member who is shown visibly tired in a match against a MS. Sure his partner probably is just chilling the whole time but it still implies using the high powered execution techs wears you out a lot. Given that G10 members are described as having unfathomably better base stat compared to MS, it is even possible you're trading stamina at a negative ratio (i.e. whatever damage you do to the enemy, you do more to yourself). For a point of reference, thus far all the high tier HS guys outlasted Atobe, the king of endurance, and often very comfortably (they're usually barely sweating). So the fact that Tohno gets tired playing two MS players who are certainly not known for being great at endurance means the execution tech tires him out a lot.

Now the high number ones he can probably use them forever but Marui had no problem returning/dodging those, so Marui isn't a top tier character at least not compared to say, Atobe.

I can see you use these techs if you've a game in the bag and you just want to torture the other guy, though I don't think you need any special techs to pull that off if you just want to beat up an opponent that's losing. Devil form Kirihara does that fine too, and presumably it can't be that hard just smashing the ball into someone's face repeatedly when you've total control. Yes execution techs lets you hit the ball to places other than the face for variety, but if you just want to beat someone up I think smashing the ball in their face works just fine.

The major problem I see is that it looks like the execution techs progressively uses more energy the lower number they go (you can see Tohno gets more tired as the numbers go lower) but aside from having different ways to splatter blood, it's not clear to me if tech #1 really does more damage than say, tech #8.

How do you know that he was getting tired due to using his techniques rather than becoming frustrated and fatigued that these puny middle schoolers were doing damage to him and killing his infamous pride?

 

[Phantron]

How do you know that he was getting tired due to using his techniques rather than becoming frustrated and fatigued that these puny middle schoolers were doing damage to him and killing his infamous pride?

I've never heard of anyone getting tired in POT because they were angry.

 

[Ninomiya]

I've never heard of anyone getting tired in POT because they were angry.

You missed Brandnewkid's point.
How do you know he was tired?
He looked frustrated and angry that Marui and Kite weren't a walk in the park but in fact good opponents. He was angry that he was going to have to bring out almost all of his Execution Methods on MSers.
Tohno didn't look tired. Nobody was tired, and Konomi would have had Kimijima state that Tohno was tired more likely.

Konomi never has somebody tired and then have a character not point it out.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

T
I can see you use these techs if you've a game in the bag and you just want to torture the other guy, though I don't think you need any special techs to pull that off if you just want to beat up an opponent that's losing. Devil form Kirihara does that fine too, and presumably it can't be that hard just smashing the ball into someone's face repeatedly when you've total control. Yes execution techs lets you hit the ball to places other than the face for variety, but if you just want to beat someone up I think smashing the ball in their face works just fine.

It's all about torture. Base wise Tohno was superior. Marui was being pushed back and could only defend.
Remember that at no point could Kite and Marui attack together.

But notice that neither Kimijima nor Tohno felt like defending at all. They never once were worried about defending.
Note how Ochi/Mouri had times where Ochi said to recognize their positions, or times when they both retreated, since Atobe/Niou made an awesome pair,
Whereas Kimijima/Tohno just stood by the net and casually attacked. Then Tohno wanted to torture his opponent.

 

[Phantron]

Err, it's rather consistent the amount a character is sweating is indicative of how much energy they're using up. As is with most manga being 'tired' doesn't even mean much because virtually nobody important has ever lost a game due to running out of energy, but the 'sweating a lot' shows they're at least playing the game seriously. For example Duke crushed Gin but is still sweating some and he said he had to go all out. If he can beat Gin while at 60% comfortably it'd show him not sweating at all.

While nobody important loses due to getting tired, it shows what Tohno did is likely his limit. To be fair he was basically playing 1on3 so maybe it takes a lot out of you.

 

[Ninomiya]

We don't know if it was serious tiredness like you were saying. You suggest that the side-effects of the Execution Methods (EM's) are serious tiredness.
There isn't enough to suggest that.

 

[Phantron]

We don't know if it was serious tiredness like you were saying. You suggest that the side-effects of the Execution Methods (EM's) are serious tiredness.
There isn't enough to suggest that.

Given Duke is shown with less sweat compared to Tohno despite using a technique that is obviously far more damaging than any of the execution techs, the only explanation is that execution tech use up a lot of energy. I guess it's also possible Tohno has exceptionally low stamina but in that case it's his problem for picking his tech choice poorly. Of course nobody important loses due to running out of energy, but when you're sweating like that you usually can't keep that up forever.

 

[Brandnewkid]

I've never heard of anyone getting tired in POT because they were angry.

Kaidoh vs. Jackal. Kaidoh, who was getting more and more frustrated that Jackal's endurance exceeded his own, right before his mental breakdown of the Boomerang Snake backlash.

 

[Hardy]

Am I the only one that thinks that the Execution Methods should all be considered as a part of a single technique? I mean, we don't really see any difference between them (except the one that hurt Marui), in fact we see that they have a common final porpuse (the complete paralysis of the enemy).

 

[-Ken-]

I think each execution should have its own rank AND execution as a set as another 'tech".

 

[Brandnewkid]

I mean, we don't really see any difference between them (except the one that hurt Marui)

You're saying that, there's no difference between a move that strikes the opponent's throat (Gunshot) and a move that strikes the opponent's feet (Cement Shoes)?

 

[Hardy]

You're saying that, there's no difference between a move that strikes the opponent's throat (Gunshot) and a move that strikes the opponent's feet (Cement Shoes)?

In PoT world, no. It's just a shot aimed in a different place, but the shot itself it's not different (none of them is more effective against any situation, he just hits them as if they were regular shots).

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Just a question about Shukuchihou.

It has been stated that Shukuchihou is caused by the player keeping his head still while moving to create the illusion of instantaneous movement. Even though it is an illusion, the players still teleport and move very quickly.

So what is Shukuchihou really? It's hard enough to catch up to a Zero-shiki, Higuma Otoshi or Cord Ball using normal movement but how does running with your head still allow you to catch up to such shots and return as a volley?

Can someone clarify for me? Is it an illusion or speed boost?

 

[Kaoz]

Moving your lower body without moving the upper.
But also moving faster by pushing off your steps faster and pushing the feet down faster than a natural pace.
The only part that's an illusion is appearing from the baseline to the net instantaneously. They're still moving in such a way that it takes them much less time to get between both spots.

1c

 

[-Ken-]

Just a question about Shukuchihou.

It has been stated that Shukuchihou is caused by the player keeping his head still while moving to create the illusion of instantaneous movement. Even though it is an illusion, the players still teleport and move very quickly.

So what is Shukuchihou really? It's hard enough to catch up to a Zero-shiki, Higuma Otoshi or Cord Ball using normal movement but how does running with your head still allow you to catch up to such shots and return as a volley?

Can someone clarify for me? Is it an illusion or speed boost?

I think it's another version of Kikumaru step. A player move already, but they are only shown at their final destination, with the old one disappearing as soon as the real one end his step. It's probably both illusion and speed boost.

 

[Phantron]

Shukuchihou is a speed buff but it also has an illusion part because adjusting to speed is one of the easier things to do in POT. Shukuchihou's illusion hides its inherent speed so that your opponent might think you're really not that fast and fall for it multiple times.

 

[Brandnewkid]

The Shikuchi is an illusionary technique by nature. This isn't a move that Konomi created just for the Prince of Tennis. It's an actual East Asian martial arts move that was used by samurai and swordsmen back in the days of war. It's an illusion in that the user makes it seem like they are erasing the 'distance' between them and their opponent. Shikuchi means "Reducing the Ground [Between One And Another]." It is even called teleportation in some circles.

 

[Phantron]

Shikuchi could mean teleportation though that'd usually be in context of stuff that looks more like Naruto.

I looked up the Wikipedia article under the Japanse page and it says the legends say masters of this technique can move tens of meters in an instant. Of course that'd mean masters of this tech can move considerably faster than Usain Bolt without even a running start, but that's probably why it's a legend. In light of this the distance covered by the POT counterparts is comparable to what the legends would say.

 

[Ninomiya]

Shikuchi could mean teleportation though that'd usually be in context of stuff that looks more like Naruto.

I looked up the Wikipedia article under the Japanse page and it says the legends say masters of this technique can move tens of meters in an instant. Of course that'd mean masters of this tech can move considerably faster than Usain Bolt without even a running start, but that's probably why it's a legend. In light of this the distance covered by the POT counterparts is comparable to what the legends would say.

Over ten meters sounds a bit legit. Since the tennis court isn't too big. But more than 10 meters sounds far from like a legend.
It's where they almost leap-run across in a straight line so they got somewhere extremely fast, and if their upper body stays still in a fight it would look like they came out of nowhere.

Then again the Amazing legendary Usain Bolt is nothing to Oshitari Kenya who sprints across water in PoT so it depends how far we can step into the real world to explain this.

 

[Phantron]

Over ten meters sounds a bit legit. Since the tennis court isn't too big. But more than 10 meters sounds far from like a legend.
It's where they almost leap-run across in a straight line so they got somewhere extremely fast, and if their upper body stays still in a fight it would look like they came out of nowhere.

Then again the Amazing legendary Usain Bolt is nothing to Oshitari Kenya who sprints across water in PoT so it depends how far we can step into the real world to explain this.

I saw some scans from the POT sourcebooks that indicates people in POT are considerably slower than Usain Bolt on the 40m. Tezuka is supposed to be barely above average in terms of physical abilities compared to a varsity middle school tennis player. Then again the same source book also says according to physics, the Hado mid teens have a speed of 230 km/h which is sufficient to knock a guy into stands, never mind that people can actually hit 230km/h quite easily in real life and you sure don't see people flying into stands.