Games The Final Fantasy Thread!

[kkck]

Fan? Me? I'm not a fan of anything in a way you might think. I approach things differently from the whole 'fanboy' logic.

Also, you took it as a broad brush-stroke as nowhere in my message does it state that every single fan of the games is that way. And dismissed whom?

Damn, and now I realize all my hours spent on how to approach things like a fanboy were wasted.

 

[shahdan]

Damn, and now I realize all my hours spent on how to approach things like a fanboy were wasted.

Now, now, don't be snarky. We can be friends!

 

[Jammin]

Fan? Me? I'm not a fan of anything in a way you might think. I approach things differently from the whole 'fanboy' logic.

You have a Noctis avatar!

Also, you took it as a broad brush-stroke as nowhere in my message does it state that every single fan of the games is that way. And dismissed whom?

You can see that the development team wanted to take risks, but FFs audience is quite immature and too embroiled in 'outrage agendas.' In fact, I thought this to be a breath of fresh air that it doesn't have the 'anti' elements FFs have.

Mmhmmm...

And I'm not dismissing you. I may not agree with where your saying but I do understand it. What you want out of the Final Fantasy franchise is something that I do not. Doesn't mean your immature or anything like that. Just means your taste runs in a different direction.

My preference is definitely more toward the classical approach. My favorite stories in the franchise are probably FFV and Tactics. Those were the ones that really appealed to me. FFV with it's story of a Dark Knight trying to redeem himself and stop the evil empire he once served and FF Tactics with it's epic tale of war and betrayal. I'd love to see them do something like that again. But I'm just not sure they have the writing talent in house to make a game like that now.

 

[shahdan]

You have a Noctis avatar!

And I'm not dismissing you. I may not agree with where your saying but I do understand it. What you want out of the Final Fantasy franchise is something that I do not. Doesn't mean your immature or anything like that. Just means your taste runs in a different direction.

My preference is definitely more toward the classical approach. My favorite stories in the franchise are probably FFV and Tactics. Those were the ones that really appealed to me. FFV with it's story of a Dark Knight trying to redeem himself and stop the evil empire he once served and FF Tactics with it's epic tale of war and betrayal. I'd love to see them do something like that again. But I'm just not sure they have the writing talent in house to make a game like that now.

Should I leave it blank? Is this an expression of 'I'm his most die-hard wanker eva' or something? I found the mustache on him funny and used it as an avatar, and that's all she wrote.

Yes, what have you caught in that post? Please, do share.

Redemption is probably the most over-used cliche in writing, so, personally, I would love for the FF team to move away from these cliches and write something different. I haven't seen anything different from FF so far--drastically different--so the franchise remains a disappointment in my eyes. They play it too safe and too anime-ish for my liking. The series is more than two decades old; I do think it's about time they focused on gritty realism, too. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[riki]

@shahdan They announced the DLCs last week

 

[Jammin]

Should I leave it blank? Is this an expression of 'I'm his most die-hard wanker eva' or something? I found the mustache on him funny and used it as an avatar, and that's all she wrote.

Yes, what have you caught in that post? Please, do share.

I'm not critizing your avatar just pointing out that you are more a fan than I think you realize.

And if I really have to spell it out for you?

You combined a generalization "FFs audience" with an insult "is quite immature and too embroiled in 'outrage agendas.". Guess what I'm part of the FF audience and so are you. So you insulted the entire FF audience right there. Including myself and yourself. That's what I mean when I say be careful about painting with a broad brush. You may say something you don't intend.

Redemption is probably the most over-used cliche in writing, so, personally, I would love for the FF team to move away from these cliches and write something different. I haven't seen anything different from FF so far--drastically different--so the franchise remains a disappointment in my eyes. They play it too safe and too anime-ish for my liking. The series is more than two decades old; I do think it's about time they focused on gritty realism, too. That's how I see it anyway.

That's fair. You want something something different there is nothing wrong with that.

Though I would argue that when it comes to stories it's not so much what the story is about as how the story is told that brings the things your looking for. And I think the right way for Square to offer that kind of thing would be restart another franchinse.

Like Ogre Battle is really the Square series that I remember doing the kind of thing your talking about. It would be awesome if they'd restart that franchise along with maybe Xenogears. Both of which were darker and grittier RPGs.

 

[shahdan]

I'm not critizing your avatar just pointing out that you are more a fan than I think you realize. And if I really have to spell it out for you?

You combined a generalization "FFs audience" with an insult "is quite immature and too embroiled in 'outrage agendas.". Guess what I'm part of the FF audience and so are you. So you insulted the entire FF audience right there. Including myself and yourself. That's what I mean when I say be careful about painting with a broad brush. You may say something you don't intend.

That's fair. You want something something different there is nothing wrong with that.

Though I would argue that when it comes to stories it's not so much what the story is about as how the story is told that brings the things your looking for. And I think the right way for Square to offer that kind of thing would be restart another franchinse.

Like Ogre Battle is really the Square series that I remember doing the kind of thing your talking about. It would be awesome if they'd restart that franchise along with maybe Xenogears. Both of which were darker and grittier RPGs.

That's it! Now you're asking for it! My avatar is now changed, and in my defense, I hate SF.

Perhaps, you should scoot over to Game-faqs and other large FF-supported venues to see how it really goes; I can assure you that it's not a pretty picture. And it isn't just FF, most fan-communities (games, movies, and sports) are quite toxic. They promote a culture of entitlement, and that's never a good thing. So I'm just telling you how it is. Sure, few fringe cases are mellow and more pragmatic, but fan-communities of die-hards are always bad news.

Would it even matter if they restart FF? They're mostly contained affairs, with most games doing their own thing. They had a chance to offer something different with XV, but they blew it with the whole 'Romance' angle and 'sacrificed himself for the world' trope. This one should've focused more on platonic aspects and a realistic take on arranged marriages. FF, as a franchise, has this 'tween-zest' that it needs to grow out of. Whilst this one desperately tried, it still felt mostly the same.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2018 ---

@shahdan They announced the DLCs last week

Weren't they going to pack it with the full game or something? I've not been keeping up with anything these days.

 

[Jammin]

That's it! Now you're asking for it! My avatar is now changed, and in my defense, I hate SF.

Perhaps, you should scoot over to Game-faqs and other large FF-supported venues to see how it really goes; I can assure you that it's not a pretty picture. And it isn't just FF, most fan-communities (games, movies, and sports) are quite toxic. They promote a culture of entitlement, and that's never a good thing. So I'm just telling you how it is. Sure, few fringe cases are mellow and more pragmatic, but fan-communities of die-hards are always bad news.

I do go to those places and there is a lot of dissatisfaction out there regarding FF and people aren't always the best at expressing themselves but even there if you get down to what people are saying they usually have a perspective with value and it's not all the same. There is definitely a lot of toxicity out there too and that's not healthy but really the ones responsible for that is, and it's sad to say this, Square Enix.

They have made some controversial choices since FFIX and there is anger out there over that. But I think a lot of that anger comes out of a place of love. People absolutely love Final Fantasy. Or at least they want to love it. Even with all of XV's flaws I know a lot of people who love it just because it's FF.

Would it even matter if they restart FF? They're mostly contained affairs, with most games doing their own thing. They had a chance to offer something different with XV, but they blew it with the whole 'Romance' angle and 'sacrificed himself for the world' trope. This one should've focused more on platonic aspects and a realistic take on arranged marriages. FF, as a franchise, has this 'tween-zest' that it needs to grow out of. Whilst this one desperately tried, it still felt mostly the same.

I think it would matter to a lot of people. Though they've kind of already done restarted FF in their own way which is part of why they are in the impossible situation of trying to please so many conflicting sides of their audience.

It really sounds to me that what would please you is an Ogre Battle style game. Or maybe a more action RPG take on that franchise.

For better and worse Square has decided to make Final Fantasy their one big blockbuster. and try to make it one game for all of their fans. They make them huge. They make them expensive. But they only make like 1 per decade. As a result people get pretty salty when it's not what they had hoped for. Because who knows when their will be another?

Right now they are working on Final Fantasy Remake and Kingdom Hearts and I think there is an especially high level of salt because, for significant number of FF fans, neither of those games are for them. That's a problem. But one thing that may cool off a little if they can actually get the new Dragon Quest game out.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 9, 2018 ---

To say something to Square's credit though I believe they are really trying to find a solution. That's what Tokyo RPG factory seems to have been about. They are trying so hard to make classical JRPGs but it has not gone as well as I think anybody had hoped it would.

 

[xi0]

Doesn't look like it's selling great on steam so far either. According to steamspy it's only moved about 300k. Which is decent for a JRPG on steam but to put that in perspective FFXIII moved about 750k. And with a package of it and all the DLC for $50 I thought it would do much better than FFXIII.

If I had to speculate, I'd probably hang it on performance. I have a pretty modern PC and I struggled to get it to run at a stable 60 fps. Ports of console games from Japanese developers have a HORRENDOUS reputation as well, especially Square-Enix. Nier is still practically unplayable without mods for some people and it's been out for nearly a year. There just isn't that much goodwill among Steam users for them, and who could blame them.

I haven't sunk many hours into FFXV, but the game also still feels rather...dated? Tough to describe for me perhaps. A bit clunky too. And like most ports, these games weren't developed with anything other than a gamepad in mind, and it shows.

Weren't they going to pack it with the full game or something? I've not been keeping up with anything these days.

The Windows Edition (PC) and Royal Edition (PS4) were practically the same thing. All released DLC packaged with the main game. But more DLC is coming out.

 

[shahdan]

The Windows Edition (PC) and Royal Edition (PS4) were practically the same thing. All released DLC packaged with the main game. But more DLC is coming out.

Ah, I see. I didn't know that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2018 ---

I do go to those places and there is a lot of dissatisfaction out there regarding FF and people aren't always the best at expressing themselves but even there if you get down to what people are saying they usually have a perspective with value and it's not all the same. There is definitely a lot of toxicity out there too and that's not healthy but really the ones responsible for that is, and it's sad to say this, Square Enix.

They have made some controversial choices since FFIX and there is anger out there over that. But I think a lot of that anger comes out of a place of love. People absolutely love Final Fantasy. Or at least they want to love it. Even with all of XV's flaws I know a lot of people who love it just because it's FF.

Can't say I agree with this gamer entitlement, mate. People should speak with their wallets. Video games are entertainment, and if something isn't your cup of tea, you can always forego it and look for something else. That's why I've never been part of any communities: all of this is just bizarre to me.

I think it would matter to a lot of people. Though they've kind of already done restarted FF in their own way which is part of why they are in the impossible situation of trying to please so many conflicting sides of their audience.

It really sounds to me that what would please you is an Ogre Battle style game. Or maybe a more action RPG take on that franchise.

For better and worse Square has decided to make Final Fantasy their one big blockbuster. and try to make it one game for all of their fans. They make them huge. They make them expensive. But they only make like 1 per decade. As a result people get pretty salty when it's not what they had hoped for. Because who knows when their will be another?

Right now they are working on Final Fantasy Remake and Kingdom Hearts and I think there is an especially high level of salt because, for significant number of FF fans, neither of those games are for them. That's a problem. But one thing that may cool off a little if they can actually get the new Dragon Quest game out.

That happens when a company goes in the new direction: you can never please everyone.

You've made a valid argument. I think if they lowered the stakes on FF games, they might be able to get out of this loop. But FF games have such big budgets that a big investment in a new franchise doesn't seem feasible.

Are those ever coming out? Don't be that optimistic, mate. I believe both of those titles are smoke and mirrors at this point.

 

[Jammin]

Can't say I agree with this gamer entitlement, mate. People should speak with their wallets. Video games are entertainment, and if something isn't your cup of tea, you can always forego it and look for something else. That's why I've never been part of any communities: all of this is just bizarre to me.

Doesn't really matter whether or not you or I agree with it. It's how things are. And how Square wants it.

Square is a business and like most businesses it's dependent on customers. It's not really any different than a restaurant when you get right down to it. For a long time they built up a base of regular customers who expect a certain thing and a certain level of quality. Now they've switched chefs and changed their recipes. But when it comes time to advertise they are promising a meal they can't deliver to those people. And the result of that is unsatisfied customers and that's where the toxicity comes from.

When a business sets expectations. Their customers expect them to meet those expectations when they hand over their cash. It's as simple as that.

That happens when a company goes in the new direction: you can never please everyone.

You've made a valid argument. I think if they lowered the stakes on FF games, they might be able to get out of this loop. But FF games have such big budgets that a big investment in a new franchise doesn't seem feasible.

It's probably going to happen eventually at some point. Dragon Quest XI took 4 years to develop from start to finish. There is no reason why Final Fantasy games shouldn't be able to do the same.

They can't keep doing this 10 year dev cycle thing.

Are those ever coming out? Don't be that optimistic, mate. I believe both of those titles are smoke and mirrors at this point.

It may be 2050, if Nomura's past history is anything to go by, but those will come out eventually. Probably...

 

[shahdan]

Doesn't really matter whether or not you or I agree with it. It's how things are. And how Square wants it.

Square is a business and like most businesses it's dependent on customers. It's not really any different than a restaurant when you get right down to it. For a long time they built up a base of regular customers who expect a certain thing and a certain level of quality. Now they've switched chefs and changed their recipes. But when it comes time to advertise they are promising a meal they can't deliver to those people. And the result of that is unsatisfied customers and that's where the toxicity comes from.

When a business sets expectations. Their customers expect them to meet those expectations when they hand over their cash. It's as simple as that.

It's probably going to happen eventually at some point. Dragon Quest XI took 4 years to develop from start to finish. There is no reason why Final Fantasy games shouldn't be able to do the same.

They can't keep doing this 10 year dev cycle thing.

It may be 2050, if Nomura's past history is anything to go by, but those will come out eventually. Probably...

And as I said: customers speak with their wallets, not childish outrage. It's the customers choice to hand in the cash or not--it isn't an obligation upon them.

It should happen this way, but they're making good money even this way, apparently.

You're being too hopeful, mate.

 

[Jammin]

You're being too hopeful, mate.

If the leaks that came out a few weeks ago are true you may be right about that.

 

[shahdan]

If the leaks that came out a few weeks ago are true you may be right about that.

Haven't seen them. Got a link?

 

[Jammin]

There are a lot of places that covered it. Here's one.
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-in-development-hell-report-1845038

The gist of it is that some guy who is fairly reputable, confirmed to work in the gaming industry in japan, posted on a website used by media people some things about Final Fantasy Remakes development that he knew second hand. He has since deleted all his social media stuff so people assume he got in trouble for it too.

But what he said was basically that it's not as far along as people think because they found the Cyberconnect work was unusable and had to scrap it all and start from the beginning again when they took them off the project and brought it in house. So essentially they have 2 years of work into the title instead of the 4 that people think they do.

He also said that Nomura, the game director, is really just there in name. He's up in Osaka working on Kingdom Hearts pretty much full time. And rarely involved with the FF7 Remake team. Which is based in another city apparently.

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2018, Original Post Date: May 27, 2018 ---

Another thing that sort of supports the idea that all that was legit is that people noticed Square had some job listings that told people a little more about the state of the project that they may have intended.

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-vii-exceed-original-development/

Mainly that it suggests that a lot of the project is still in a pretty basic planning stage.

------------------------------

On the good news front they did manage to get the original composer involved. So that's a win.

 

[shahdan]

There are a lot of places that covered it. Here's one.
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-in-development-hell-report-1845038

The gist of it is that some guy who is fairly reputable, confirmed to work in the gaming industry in japan, posted on a website used by media people some things about Final Fantasy Remakes development that he knew second hand. He has since deleted all his social media stuff so people assume he got in trouble for it too.

But what he said was basically that it's not as far along as people think because they found the Cyberconnect work was unusable and had to scrap it all and start from the beginning again when they took them off the project and brought it in house. So essentially they have 2 years of work into the title instead of the 4 that people think they do.

He also said that Nomura, the game director, is really just there in name. He's up in Osaka working on Kingdom Hearts pretty much full time. And rarely involved with the FF7 Remake team. Which is based in another city apparently.

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2018, Original Post Date: May 27, 2018 ---

Another thing that sort of supports the idea that all that was legit is that people noticed Square had some job listings that told people a little more about the state of the project that they may have intended.

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-vii-exceed-original-development/

Mainly that it suggests that a lot of the project is still in a pretty basic planning stage.

------------------------------

On the good news front they did manage to get the original composer involved. So that's a win.

Yeah, this ain't coming out for a long time. On a brighter note, I found this:

 

[Jammin]

So Hajime Tabata is gone from Square Enix and all the DLC plans are cancelled with the exception of the Ardyn one. Which is a bit odd since they just announced those a couple months ago.

 

[Jammin]

I truly do not know what they are going to do with FFXVI

For the last few games they've been going further and further away from the JRPG roots and towards massive budgets and toward action focused kingdom hearts style gameplay. Yet, Dragon Quest was just a huge success for them (4 million copies sold) and probably cost a fraction of what FFXV did to make. And was also as old school a turn based JRPG as they've made in years. Do they stay the course and iterate on the ideas people liked in FFXV or do they do something more reminiscent of the earlier games? I don't know.

For now the FFVII remake is probably going to be the first thing when it comes out in like 2021 or beyond. If it ever even comes out at all with what they've said about it being episodic and what we've heard about development with Cyberconnect essentially failing them restarting it from scratch like 2 years ago internally.

 

[Nii]

What are you guys thoughts on the new teaser they released for the FF7 remake? I mean, it showed relatively little, and I'm still not sure if I trust SE with a good remake... but it still made me happy that we finally got some FF7 news and apparently more quite soon.

 

[kkck]

Well, in my case i liked the trailer. It looked like an improvement over what we were being teased with earlier.