Fantasy TO Sherria vs. Laxus

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Please stop, Laxus was battered and brusied and Hades himself is still no pushover. Saying Hades is a non factor is striaght up ignroant because that is what pushed Laxus to his current condition, hence why he didn't pass out straight after the Wahl fight.

I honestly don't really care to argue over something so insignificant. With that said, you can have the last word. But I will state my analysis of the fight one more time. In my opinion, Hades should be considered a non-factor in Laxus' condition. After the fight with Wahl, you can see him on the verge of passing out. Refer to the bottom left panel on both pages.

Spoiler

Even if you want to make the claim that Hades pushed Laxus over his limit, there really isn't much of a difference from his previous condition to his final condition. Like I said, the only reason why Laxus could fight Hades in that condition is because Hades is a fodder in the current arc (especially as a historia).

 

[Demon Hunter]

only Spriggan Historia were said to be weaker than their living ones, presumably because he needed a massive amounts of MP to summon them and to keep them in the living world. no one said that the previous Historian's were weaker at all. even Lyon said that Ur' magic and abilities are the spitting images of herself and he knows her very well how strong she is. now, unless someone gives me a panel that the first Historian's are much weaker, they will be the same strength as they were in the past in my book.

Spoiler

oh and Hades is not a fodder. it took Flame Dragon King's Roar just to take down Bluenote. that definitely wasn't a regular roar. Hades without a heart is above Bluenote imo. and yes Laxus wasn't at 100% when he fought Hades. poster above me said in another thread that Ajeel would low - mid diff Hades without a Heart. Laxus destroys Ajeel and defeats Hades while being heavily worn out. the downplaying of Laxus here is a bit too much. he was clearly injured and tire when he fought Hades.

as for my final answer for this thread, Laxus drops a nuke and while Sherria is recovering Laxus hurts her with a Roar. if she is still conscious after that, she will be paralyzed(something that people ignore) and Laxus will just finish her off with Lightning Dragon's Jaw.

its mid - high diff at best but there is no way that Sherria wins. @XXEliteXXAceXX thanks. I finally realized that TO Sherria is strong so I will say high diff at best. I don't see how she can win because @BluePegasus thinks she can.

it will be fun to watch this thread from a sideline now good luck guys, bye

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

only Spriggan Historia were said to be weaker than their living ones, presumably because he needed a massive amounts of MP to summon them and to keep them in the living world. no one said that the previous Historian's were weaker at all. even Lyon said that Ur' magic and abilities are the spitting images of herself and he knows her very well how strong she is. now, unless someone gives me a panel that the first Historian's are much weaker, they will be the same strength as they were in the past in my book.

Spoiler

Fair enough. I have no way of disproving this so I will concede until we get more information about the historias (if we ever get any).

But I still think Hades is a non-factor in regards to Laxus' condition. Tenrou Hades is practically fodder in the current arc (similar to Bluenote).

oh and Hades is not a fodder. it took Flame Dragon King's Roar just to take down Bluenote. that definitely wasn't a regular roar. Hades without a heart is above Bluenote imo. and yes Laxus wasn't at 100% when he fought Hades. poster above me said in another thread that Ajeel would low - mid diff Hades without a Heart. Laxus destroys Ajeel and defeats Hades while being heavily worn out. the downplaying of Laxus here is a bit too much. he was clearly injured and tire when he fought Hades.

I guess we'll just disagree then.

• Hades (with Heart) ≈ Mard Geer

• Hades (without Heart) < Mard Geer
  
• Mard Geer < Jacob, Neinhart (Low Tier Spriggan)
• Jacob, Neinhart < Ajeel (Medium Tier Spriggan)
• Hades (without Heart) < Ajeel

So yes, I still stand by my words that Ajeel would beat Hades (without Heart) with Low-Medium Difficulty.

 

[The President]

I don't know about Chelia, so I can't assume. But I wouldn't be surprised if August reacts the same way when Chelia uses high level god slaying spells (i.e. Heavenly Gathering of Clouds).

Highly doubt it.

DeS Gray was on par with DF Natsu back in Tartaros. So the fact that Natsu could inflict quite a bit of damage only makes sense that Gray's magic would "one-shot" Mard Geer. I put it in quotation marks because it wasn't actually a true one-shot.

Ummm no he wasn't lol, not even close. DeS Gray was as strong as regular Natsu, he and regular Natsu were shown to be equal in everything they did against Mard. DF Natsu blitzed the shit out Mard, something Natsu and Gray failed to do together prior. Natsu hardly did any damage to Mard, even in DF.

Technically speaking though, TO Chelia defeated Dimaria in her base form (not god soul). She only used her god slaying magic to revert Dimaria back to her original form. So even Chelia's magic was super effective, the outcome was still because of her power.

Huh? No. DiMaria was in chronos form up until she was defeated. Even so, what you are trying to claim here doesn't help your case. Base DiMarias durability is trash.

Let me explain it this way. Chelia was always a god slayer. That never changed. So why did she struggle against Dimaria to begin with? Because she just didn't have enough attack power... So Chelia at GMG Laxus' level would not be able to one-shot Dimaria, let alone defeat her.

I'm not saying TO Chelia is only GMG Laxus level, I am saying that a GMG Laxus level character with god slaying magic would be able to one-shot Chronos DiMaria due to the fact that DeS Gray basically one-shotted Mard. I consider Mard to have Spriggan level durability, only reason he is not Spriggan level is because his offence is severally lacking in comparison to a Spriggans.

I'm not saying slayer advantage is a non-factor. But to say it is the main reason as to the reason why she defeated Dimaria? Not really.

It definitely is, as a matter of fact Chelia might have STILL lost had it not been for Wendy.

I also don't deny that Laxus has better durability. That much should be obvious. But to say he has more endurance than Chelia? I wouldn't agree, especially since Chelia can heal herself. She also demonstrated her stamina and endurance in her fight with Dimaria when she was in good condition after taking multiple blows.

TO Chelia couldn't stay in TO for long. She tango'd with DiMaria in CQC for a bit and then used one powerful named spell, then reverted back to normal. The fact that she didn't use healing magic to heal her wounds says a lot about how little endurance she has in that form. Although even if we extended TOs running time, she would still fall far behind Laxus in endurance. She can heal wounds, but exhaustion remains (which is the reason she tied with Wendy in GMG). Laxus was on the brink of death against Wahl, got back up to finish him off and then shortly after went on to face Precht of all people and defeat him as well. Laxus has arguably shown the best endurance in the entire series. TO Chelias endurance is average for her weight class.

The only way you can knock somebody out in one-hit is if it's a No Difficulty fight... which is not happening...

I mean if Laxus just fires off a nuke from the get-go I don't see why not, but thats not in his personality to do. He is still winning this Easy-Diff.

Depends actually. Chelia's speed is impressive in a way that she can maintain it for such a long time even when injured. Laxus' speed, on the other hand, is quite average... Not to mention, he can only gain a boost in speed for a short amount of time.

Its hardly average when he's blitzing a Spriggan with it. And his base speed is still close to if not at TO Chelia level. It basically goes:

Lightning Coat Laxus >>> TO Chelia >= Base Laxus.

Given that lightning coat is part of his arsenal and doesn't strain him all that much, that still warrants a >> in speed. Laxus is overall a lot faster. Lightning coat is not a one-second one-time deal, he can use it as often as he wants for at least a handful of seconds at a time.

You mean a pre-timeskip Hades? The one that doesn't even have the actual power representation of the real Hades himself? Hades should be non-factor in his condition.

Huh? Unlike the Spriggan historia, Hades historia is at full strength (minus heart machine). For the Spriggan historia Neinhart had to reduce their power since he doesn't have x3 Spriggan level MP. They are likely at around 1/3 of their regular strength. In the battle at the Port however Neinhart wasn't summoning Spriggan level historia so he wouldn't have had to make them weaker to accommodate for his own MP, as evidenced by the fact that Lyon points out that Ur is as strong as she was alive. I see no reason why Precht would have been weaker then he was at Tenrou (minus the heart machine, which only really increases his endurance via healing).

And no red lightning wasn't an advantage, Wahl not being immune to Laxus' attack isn't an advantage.

Well actually red lightning was super effective against Wahl, since its still lightning (which is super effective against bots) just lightning that Wahls AI did not recognize and have an immunity to. Either way its pretty obvious that Laxus could handle Wahl in a fight between the two, but overall they aren't that far apart since Wahl happens to be immune to most forms of hax in the series thanks to his unique disposition as a robot and weakness magic, something no other character has.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Ummm no he wasn't lol, not even close. DeS Gray was as strong as regular Natsu, he and regular Natsu were shown to be equal in everything they did against Mard. DF Natsu blitzed the shit out Mard, something Natsu and Gray failed to do together prior. Natsu hardly did any damage to Mard, even in DF.

Yes, he was and I am confident of that. Tartaros DeS Gray has got to be one of the most underrated characters in this forum.

• Base Gray ≈ Base Natsu

• Base Gray < LFD Natsu
• LFD Natsu ≈ Etherious Tempesta
• Etherious Tempesta < Silver
• Silver < DF Natsu
• DF Natsu ≈ DeS Gray (Base Gray + Silver's MP)

Huh? No. DiMaria was in chronos form up until she was defeated. Even so, what you are trying to claim here doesn't help your case. Base DiMarias durability is trash.

I call this Base Dimaria. She clearly isn't using God Soul here.

Spoiler

It doesn't matter if Base Dimaria's durability is trash because so is Wahl's. Besides, Chelia legitimately one-shotted her opponent.

I'm not saying TO Chelia is only GMG Laxus level, I am saying that a GMG Laxus level character with god slaying magic would be able to one-shot Chronos DiMaria due to the fact that DeS Gray basically one-shotted Mard.

I understood what you were saying. But that is my point. A GMG Laxus level character with god slaying magic would still lose to Dimaria.

It definitely is, as a matter of fact Chelia might have STILL lost had it not been for Wendy.

Well, this is an assumption. I can say that Chelia would still have beaten Dimaria but with a higher level of difficulty. This will get us nowhere.

TO Chelia couldn't stay in TO for long. She tango'd with DiMaria in CQC for a bit and then used one powerful named spell, then reverted back to normal. The fact that she didn't use healing magic to heal her wounds says a lot about how little endurance she has in that form. Although even if we extended TOs running time, she would still fall far behind Laxus in endurance. She can heal wounds, but exhaustion remains (which is the reason she tied with Wendy in GMG). Laxus was on the brink of death against Wahl, got back up to finish him off and then shortly after went on to face Precht of all people and defeat him as well. Laxus has arguably shown the best endurance in the entire series. TO Chelias endurance is average for her weight class.

I don't think the duration of Third Origin matters in this thread. It's specifically stated to be "TO Chelia vs Laxus".

As for her healing capabilities, even though she cannot replenish her own energy, healing wounds is better than nothing. Laxus can't match Chelia when it comes to endurance because after his fight with Hades, he was pretty much beaten to the point he couldn't move. But for Chelia, she healed herself after fighting Dimaria and can still continue on. I think it is obvious that Laxus loses here despite the fact that you still deny it.

I mean if Laxus just fires off a nuke from the get-go I don't see why not, but thats not in his personality to do. He is still winning this Easy-Diff.

Again, not gonna happen... I can say Chelia uses her strongest attack right off the bat and continues to spam it...

Its hardly average when he's blitzing a Spriggan with it. And his base speed is still close to if not at TO Chelia level. It basically goes:

Lightning Coat Laxus >>> TO Chelia >= Base Laxus.

Given that lightning coat is part of his arsenal and doesn't strain him all that much, that still warrants a >> in speed. Laxus is overall a lot faster. Lightning coat is not a one-second one-time deal, he can use it as often as he wants for at least a handful of seconds at a time.

It's not all about blitzing though. If it was, then why did Laxus get hit by Wahl's attacks? Shouldn't he be able to dodge them with ease? The easiest answer to this is that Laxus can't maintain such speed for a long time. Meaning someone like Chelia who is naturally fast would still have an advantage over him.

I don't know which feat you're referring to but I think Laxus in his physical form is quite average in speed. If not, below average.

Huh? Unlike the Spriggan historia, Hades historia is at full strength (minus heart machine). For the Spriggan historia Neinhart had to reduce their power since he doesn't have x3 Spriggan level MP. They are likely at around 1/3 of their regular strength. In the battle at the Port however Neinhart wasn't summoning Spriggan level historia so he wouldn't have had to make them weaker to accommodate for his own MP, as evidenced by the fact that Lyon points out that Ur is as strong as she was alive. I see no reason why Precht would have been weaker then he was at Tenrou (minus the heart machine, which only really increases his endurance via healing).

You may be right so I will concede for now. But just keep in mind that Lyon's words have other interpretations.

I'll admit I used to think Lyon's comment meant that Ur's historia was just as powerful as her real self. I even argued heatedly over this topic for quite a while. However, another user pointed out to me that Lyon's comment meant that her magic/abilities were an actual representation of Ur herself. In other words, Lyon was familiar with her skills and Ice Make Magic instead of her power. This actually makes sense because Lyon never said "magic power". He specifically said "magic" which can be substituted for "magic type".

Anyways, I was wrong in the past and I may still be wrong now (if I choose to believe in your guys' words). So since there was never any real clarification, I will withdraw from arguing about this topic because I just simply don't know enough to debate this.

 

[BluePegasus]

So you're crying plot BS in order to try and downplay Laxus' victory. And no red lightning wasn't an advantage, Wahl not being immune to Laxus' attack isn't an advantage

Uhm, you were the one who asked why I was complaining about Red Lightning. You have no right to complain about my answer tbh.

Red Lightning DID brought Laxus in an advantage, a huge advantage to be fair. Why? Because a Lightning Mage defeated someone who is immune to lightning due to a new "lightning spell" that was stated to surpass his own element. Yes, it did brought Laxus in an advantage since he would be stomped by Wall if he didn't receive it. Facts.

It isn't? LMAOOOO It fucking is and it's the only reason why he got pushed soo far.

No it isn't. Like I said before, I'm comparing the Healthy Laxus vs. Wall and TO Sherria vs. Dimaria here. You should be thankful, I basically exclude the part where Laxus was owned by Wall all the way.

HAHAHAHA. That in no way means that Justu Shiki is Freed's move that's Laxus thanking Freed for teaching him that.

Oh so I guess Laxus managed to write a whole Jutsu Shiki circle within a second by himself why he can't even use that magic. Uhu, sure thing.

Laxus is much stronger than Wahl. The second he was freed from his illness he one shot Freed. 'Nothing more than an attack boosted by lightning' HAHAHAHA by that logic anyone who loses to a dragon slayer is weak. Laxus is a top tier among the main characters and a high tier overall, not to mention red lightning should be one of his stronger moves, please get that bullshit out of here. If your only defense for Wahl's durability being low is saying red lightning is a punch with lightning around it, you don't have a good argument. Being one shotted by someone much stronger than you doesn't make you scrub.

You're overrating Laxus as hell. You make it sound like he could low diff August right away. Well since you basically ignore my whole point and state things I never said I'll just leave this be.

Handled a dragon slayer? She handled the WEAKEST DRAGON SLAYER. Wendy is in no way comparable to Laxus, don't even try to compare them. Red Lightning>>>>>Anything Wendy has currently.

Seriously, what do you see in Red Lightning? That spell is NOTHING comparable to DF Wendy's Secret Technique and final nuke. Stop this bias already.

Well at least Dimaria tanked a punch boosted by magic:

Spoiler

Something Wall never could

Just passing by, don't mind me! I just want to clarify something because i think there is a misunderstanding.


I might be wrong but i disagree with that. So one of us is wrong, that's what i want to clarify :P
Because in my eyes it is clear that Laxus in fact wrote the runes himself, not Freed.

Spoiler: Panels of the activation of the runes, Jutsu-whatever

In the first panel we see Laxus drawing rune symbols to complete the runes. The barrier gets activated.
In the second panel Wahl says Laxus was able to conjure the magic circle during the course of their frantic battle. Which means it wasn't just the 2 lines he drew in the first panel, it was something planned and done during the whole battle. Or just at the end when he was struggling on the floor and trying to move for 20 seconds while Wahl was taunting.
And i don't see how Freed would have written the magic circle. He had to know the exact location the fight would take place, that makes no sense to me.

Anyway, i don't know if i convinced you. But imo the magic barrier was indeed taught by Freed but made entirely by Laxus and all the credit is his. It shouldn't be compared to Sherria receiving help directly by Wendy.

Alright peace out guys, im outta here


EDIT: @BluePegasus i might ave misunderstood you though, that's very possible. I might look as a dummy as a result but eh. Who cares xD

Activating isn't the same thing as creating. There is no single way how Laxus, someone who isn't a Jutsu Shiki mage, wrote a whole Jutsu Shiki circle within a second, even faster than Freed ever managed to. I never stated Laxus didn't activate the circle, I stated he didn't write it. It wouldn't even make any sense since he basically thanked Freed for creating it himself.

 

[Takuan]

Activating isn't the same thing as creating. There is no single way how Laxus, someone who isn't a Jutsu Shiki mage, wrote a whole Jutsu Shiki circle within a second, even faster than Freed ever managed to. I never stated Laxus didn't activate the circle, I stated he didn't write it. It wouldn't even make any sense since he basically thanked Freed for creating it himself.

I agree that Freed created the circle, in terms of actually creating the symbols needed to make it etc. And he handed the "formula" to Laxus. He gave his knowledge. He learned Laxus how to do it himself.
But Freed couldn't draw the whole circle himself there. He got badly injured by Wahl's machina, so he couldn't physically make it. Thus the only possibility is that he knew that Laxus would fight in that exact spot and drew the circle beforehand. That's extremely far fetched.

And it wasn't within a second. It was stated by Wahl that Laxus drew it all during the course of their battle.

 

[The President]

Yes, he was and I am confident of that. Tartaros DeS Gray has got to be one of the most underrated characters in this forum.

Based on what.......everything they did against Mard was equal, when they punched him in the face, when they had their faces dragged against the ground, when they burned/froze his thorns respectively etc........Gray showed absolutely no signs of superiority aside from having super effective magic against Mard.

If DeS Gray was anywhere near DF Natsu then landing a hit wouldn't have been a problem in the least.

I call this Base Dimaria. She clearly isn't using God Soul here.

Thats when she got KOd. Before she was hit she was still in Chronos.

It doesn't matter if Base Dimaria's durability is trash because so is Wahl's. Besides, Chelia legitimately one-shotted her opponent.

How is Wahls durability trash? He tanked Laxuses punches with not a bruise to show for it. Its easily among the highest of all the Spriggan and certainly higher then DiMarias. She one-shotted her opponent with super effective magic, so did Laxus, but he has other techniques that can one-shot or badly injure a Spriggan like Ajeel if it hits directly.

I understood what you were saying. But that is my point. A GMG Laxus level character with god slaying magic would still lose to Dimaria.

I never said otherwise, point is that you only need to be GMG Laxus level with super effective magic to have the capacity of one-shotting her. Assuming she stands there and takes the attack. What this says is that Chelias firepower did not have to be high to one-shot DiMaria so it her firepower doesn't have to be all that great.

Well, this is an assumption. I can say that Chelia would still have beaten Dimaria but with a higher level of difficulty. This will get us nowhere.

The fact that Wendy protected Chelia means that she might have lost had Wendy not. Chelia high-diffing DiMaria despite having super effective magic against her is not something to boast about.

I don't think the duration of Third Origin matters in this thread. It's specifically stated to be "TO Chelia vs Laxus".

So we extrapolate what her endurance actually is? Sure, it doesn't really hamper my argument.

As for her healing capabilities, even though she cannot replenish her own energy, healing wounds is better than nothing. Laxus can't match Chelia when it comes to endurance because after his fight with Hades, he was pretty much beaten to the point he couldn't move. But for Chelia, she healed herself after fighting Dimaria and can still continue on. I think it is obvious that Laxus loses here despite the fact that you still deny it.

Chelia had literally just fought one opponent and she never healed herself after DiMaria, I don't know what you are talking about. One fought a single Spriggan with the help of 3 other characters and couldn't fight afterwards. The other fought a Spriggan alone while dying from the inside due to a lethal illness (Wahl even points out that he should have been dead despite still fighting, that statement alone >> anything Chelia has ever done in endurance), defeated said Spriggan with the illness finally gone, and then going to fighting and defeating Precht alone. Laxus is easily >>> Chelia in endurance. You have no argument here.

Again, not gonna happen... I can say Chelia uses her strongest attack right off the bat and continues to spam it...

What do you mean its not going to happen? If Laxus wanted to what stops him from firing off the same nuke he used against Ajeel against Chelia? Chelia hasn't shown the same level of durability as Ajeel nor has she shown any strong defence to defend against it nor has she shown an attack that would be strong enough to offset the attack. I'll acknowledge that its not within his personality to start with a nuke which is why I say it will be an Easy-Diff win rather then an outright stomp.

It's not all about blitzing though. If it was, then why did Laxus get hit by Wahl's attacks? Shouldn't he be able to dodge them with ease? The easiest answer to this is that Laxus can't maintain such speed for a long time. Meaning someone like Chelia who is naturally fast would still have an advantage over him.

Because he was paralyzed due to his illness which gave Wahl an opening to spam him with attacks, and he took full advantage of that. Laxus casual speed is around Chelias level, his lightning coat puts his speed well above hers.

I don't know which feat you're referring to but I think Laxus in his physical form is quite average in speed. If not, below average.

He was matching a Spriggan in speed, he is most definitely not average.[/QUOTE]

 

[Crimson Ice]

I honestly don't really care to argue over something so insignificant. With that said, you can have the last word. But I will state my analysis of the fight one more time. In my opinion, Hades should be considered a non-factor in Laxus' condition. After the fight with Wahl, you can see him on the verge of passing out. Refer to the bottom left panel on both pages.

Spoiler

Even if you want to make the claim that Hades pushed Laxus over his limit, there really isn't much of a difference from his previous condition to his final condition. Like I said, the only reason why Laxus could fight Hades in that condition is because Hades is a fodder in the current arc (especially as a historia).

Again Hades is no slouch and Laxus was in a shit condition, saying Hades shouldn't have been a challenge is just flat out wrong. As for the panel that shows him being tired and fayigues but in no way does it indicate he's about to pass out.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2016 ---

Uhm, you were the one who asked why I was complaining about Red Lightning. You have no right to complain about my answer tbh.

I can complain if it's a silly answer , which it is.

Red Lightning DID brought Laxus in an advantage, a huge advantage to be fair. Why? Because a Lightning Mage defeated someone who is immune to lightning due to a new "lightning spell" that was stated to surpass his own element. Yes, it did brought Laxus in an advantage since he would be stomped by Wall if he didn't receive it. Facts.

Not being immune to something isn't an advantage you know that right? It evened the playing field that's it

No it isn't. Like I said before, I'm comparing the Healthy Laxus vs. Wall and TO Sherria vs. Dimaria here. You should be thankful, I basically exclude the part where Laxus was owned by Wall all the way.

It is relevant. If you look at a healthy Laxus vs Wahl it's literally just Laxus one shotting him LMAOOO. Wahl only was beating Laxus was when he couldn't move. So yeah Laxus got 'owned' only when he couldn't move.

Oh so I guess Laxus managed to write a whole Jutsu Shiki circle within a second by himself why he can't even use that magic. Uhu, sure thing.

Oh so I see you're bitching about Laxus learning a new type of magic when he just spent a whole year training and one of his bodyguards is a justu shiki expert? Yeah, sure thing.

You're overrating Laxus as hell. You make it sound like he could low diff August right away. Well since you basically ignore my whole point and state things I never said I'll just leave this be.

Him being wayy stronger than Wahl =/= Him one shotting August. Keep putting words in my mouth, it won't make your argument any better but whatever helps you cope.

Seriously, what do you see in Red Lightning? That spell is NOTHING comparable to DF Wendy's Secret Technique and final nuke. Stop this bias already.

Red lightning is seemingly one of Laxus stronger moves and Laxus' is miles ahead of Wendy. Stop this bias? WHAT FEATS DO ANY OF WENDY'S SPELLS HAVE THAT MAKE THEM COMPARABLE TO A MOVE THAT TOOK OUT A SPRIGGAN.

Well at least Dimaria tanked a punch boosted by magic:

Spoiler

Something Wall never could

A punch muuch weaker than anything Laxus has. Yeah, nice argument.

Activating isn't the same thing as creating. There is no single way how Laxus, someone who isn't a Jutsu Shiki mage, wrote a whole Jutsu Shiki circle within a second, even faster than Freed ever managed to. I never stated Laxus didn't activate the circle, I stated he didn't write it. It wouldn't even make any sense since he basically thanked Freed for creating it himself.[/QUOTE]

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

What? Did I just see the exact words "Red lightning is nothing comparable to DF Wendy's secret art"??? Yo BP, you gotta chill man. I mean, I'm 95 percent sure you're trying to troll Laxus fans, but you're going too far bro.

Laxus wins without too much difficulty. Sherria doesn't have a slayer advantage over Laxus like she did with Dimaria. Her speed and CQC is impressive, but outside of those two fields she doesn't have mich going for hee in this fight. Not gonna lie, TO Sherria gets overrated pretty hard on these forum.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Based on what.......everything they did against Mard was equal, when they punched him in the face, when they had their faces dragged against the ground, when they burned/froze his thorns respectively etc........Gray showed absolutely no signs of superiority aside from having super effective magic against Mard.

If DeS Gray was anywhere near DF Natsu then landing a hit wouldn't have been a problem in the least.

Based on the fact that it doesn't make sense for DF Natsu to have more MP than Gray and Silver combined. As for the Mard Geer fight, DeS Gray and Natsu were not equal. Gray was clearly doing better. You keep calling it "slayer advantage" but I'm telling you, that wasn't the only factor. Devil Slaying Magic is not only super effective against demons... It increases the user's power as well.

It seems you're fixated on the idea of slayer advantage, so there isn't really much else for me to say. If I say DeS Gray is stronger than DF Natsu, you call it slayer advantage. If I say DeS Gray is weaker than Natsu, you say it's because Gray is not on Natsu's level yet. Even when I say they're about the same in power, you still deny it...

I don't see how landing a hit is related to power, but you have your own way of defining things I guess.

Thats when she got KOd. Before she was hit she was still in Chronos.

Look at your last sentence. Note the word, before. I'm not talking about before, I'm talking about when Dimaria got hit.

This is before Dimaria got hit. Note that she is in the process of turning back to her base form (bottom panel).

Spoiler

This is when she actually got hit.

Spoiler

And this is Dimaria afterwards (top-right panel).

Spoiler

I literally just posted all the events in chronological order...

How is Wahls durability trash? He tanked Laxuses punches with not a bruise to show for it. Its easily among the highest of all the Spriggan and certainly higher then DiMarias. She one-shotted her opponent with super effective magic, so did Laxus, but he has other techniques that can one-shot or badly injure a Spriggan like Ajeel if it hits directly.

Wahl is a machina so chances are, he can't be bruised. The only real indication we have of Wahl's durability is the last panel when he got torn apart by Red Lightning. As for Dimaria, she easily beats Wahl when it comes to durability. She didn't even flinch from a full on attack from DF Wendy.

I never said otherwise, point is that you only need to be GMG Laxus level with super effective magic to have the capacity of one-shotting her. Assuming she stands there and takes the attack. What this says is that Chelias firepower did not have to be high to one-shot DiMaria so it her firepower doesn't have to be all that great.

No, this is exactly what I am contesting. A GMG Laxus level character with super effective magic still won't beat Dimaria. You put a lot of emphasis on slayer advantage when power is really the main factor. Slayer advantage is secondary to power.

The fact that Wendy protected Chelia means that she might have lost had Wendy not. Chelia high-diffing DiMaria despite having super effective magic against her is not something to boast about.

But that is still an assumption...

So we extrapolate what her endurance actually is? Sure, it doesn't really hamper my argument.

It's not extrapolating. It's the conditions of the thread.

Chelia had literally just fought one opponent and she never healed herself after DiMaria, I don't know what you are talking about. One fought a single Spriggan with the help of 3 other characters and couldn't fight afterwards. The other fought a Spriggan alone while dying from the inside due to a lethal illness (Wahl even points out that he should have been dead despite still fighting, that statement alone >> anything Chelia has ever done in endurance), defeated said Spriggan with the illness finally gone, and then going to fighting and defeating Precht alone. Laxus is easily >>> Chelia in endurance. You have no argument here.

Don't blame Chelia for getting help from 3 characters. Technically, Ultear didn't help. She only made the fight fair. As for Carla, she was literally fodder and did nothing. Wendy is the only one who actually helped Chelia but then you have to take into account that Chelia didn't have Third Origin for the majority of the fight.

Sure, Laxus fought a Spriggan and defeated him while suffering from MBP's (illegitimately) but that is why Laxus > TO Chelia. I'm not debating this. I'm simply saying that you are downplaying Chelia when you say she isn't Spriggan level. She literally took out a Spriggan with only one attack. Even if Chelia has slayer advantage, it wasn't the deciding factor in the fight.

What do you mean its not going to happen? If Laxus wanted to what stops him from firing off the same nuke he used against Ajeel against Chelia? Chelia hasn't shown the same level of durability as Ajeel nor has she shown any strong defence to defend against it nor has she shown an attack that would be strong enough to offset the attack. I'll acknowledge that its not within his personality to start with a nuke which is why I say it will be an Easy-Diff win rather then an outright stomp.

How can you honestly think it will happen? Laxus can't even defeat someone like Erza in the manner you are proposing. And since TO Chelia is at least on Erza's level, your hypothetical situation won't happen. If it does, then I can say TO Chelia one-shots Laxus by using her strongest attack... This is totally unrealistic...

Because he was paralyzed due to his illness which gave Wahl an opening to spam him with attacks, and he took full advantage of that. Laxus casual speed is around Chelias level, his lightning coat puts his speed well above hers.



He was matching a Spriggan in speed, he is most definitely not average.

Laxus was still getting hit before his illness, so I don't see your point.

Wahl is not that fast when compared to some of the other Spriggans, so Laxus matching him in speed is considered average.

---

Again Hades is no slouch and Laxus was in a shit condition, saying Hades shouldn't have been a challenge is just flat out wrong. As for the panel that shows him being tired and fayigues but in no way does it indicate he's about to pass out.

I didn't say Hades shouldn't have been a challenge for Laxus. That is twisting my words. I said Laxus' final condition shouldn't have been influenced by Hades. Both statements are different.

The first one is saying Laxus could beat Hades easily. Obviously, he can't because of his condition.

The second one is saying that Laxus barely got damaged by Hades and if he did, it was minimal due to Hades being fodder now. Basically, Laxus was in the same condition before and after his fight with Hades.

 

[Brandish μ]

Based on the fact that it doesn't make sense for DF Natsu to have more MP than Gray and Silver combined.

DF Natsu will have the exact same MP that Base Natsu has. You need to account for the change in Natsu, ie he's partially dragonised. With that change in physiology, Natsu's stats boost considerably. And as seen this amount of power is enough to overwhelm Mard Geer to a greater extent than both Gray and Natsu together could...

Look at your last sentence. Note the word, before. I'm not talking about before, I'm talking about when Dimaria got hit.

This is before Dimaria got hit. Note that she is in the process of turning back to her base form (bottom panel).

You could be right here, but I do agree with @Dr Monty that Chronos was hit with the secret art. It makes sense that the attack rips through her takeover.

Anyway even if it did hit Dimaria and not Chronos, Laxus still has greater durability than her. And more importantly, it's arguable that Sherria can even solo a Chronos level opponent. She needed Wendy's help. Take that away and the fight is changed. Sherria might not be taken out, but she surely wouldn't be able to fire off her secret art when she did. Subbing in Laxus for Chronos makes it even more difficult, keeping in mind Sherria was getting hurt from Chronos physical blows.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

DF Natsu will have the exact same MP that Base Natsu has. You need to account for the change in Natsu, ie he's partially dragonised. With that change in physiology, Natsu's stats boost considerably. And as seen this amount of power is enough to overwhelm Mard Geer to a greater extent than both Gray and Natsu together could...

I don't think so. Dragon Force should increase Natsu's MP. That is what allows other mages to sense his magic power.

I understand that DF Natsu consumes more MP to compensate for Attack Power. But both can be true. He can get an increase in Magic Power and MP consumption rate.

Nastu's physicals shouldn't change that much as of right now. He hasn't dragonized yet. And even if Natsu can overwhelm Mard Geer with better physicals, then Gray can overwhelm Mard Geer with better magic power.

My point in that post was that LFD Natsu already loses to Silver when it comes to MP. Once Natsu attains Dragon Force, he pulls ahead of Silver. But how much farther ahead is he? That is the question. Personally, I don't see how it is logically possible for Natsu to have more MP than Gray and Silver combined. In a sense, that is even more than Mard Geer. Besides, that's a lot of area to cover. First, Natsu would have to make up a certain amount just to be on par with Silver. Then he would have to have more MP than Base Gray (who's MP is still full).

You could be right here, but I do agree with @Dr Monty that Chronos was hit with the secret art. It makes sense that the attack rips through her takeover.

Anyway even if it did hit Dimaria and not Chronos, Laxus still has greater durability than her. And more importantly, it's arguable that Sherria can even solo a Chronos level opponent. She needed Wendy's help. Take that away and the fight is changed. Sherria might not be taken out, but she surely wouldn't be able to fire off her secret art when she did. Subbing in Laxus for Chronos makes it even more difficult, keeping in mind Sherria was getting hurt from Chronos physical blows.

The way I interpreted the fight... Ultear gave Chelia Third Origin because God Slaying Magic is effective against gods. Note that base Dimaria isn't really a god. She has a God Soul Takeover similar to how Mirajane has a Demon Takeover. She isn't actually a demon when she is in her regular form... Anyways, Chelia's goal was to cancel out Dimaria's God Soul and revert her back to her base form. From there, it is just a matter of magic power needed in order to take out Dimaria.

 

[BluePegasus]

I can complain if it's a silly answer , which it is.

Not being immune to something isn't an advantage you know that right? It evened the playing field that's it

Again, you don't get my point. A Lightning Mage receiving a new advanced lighting spell that apparently DOES affect someone who is immune to lightning is an advantage. Laxus would've badly lost if he didn't receive Red Lightning at the point he needed it the most.

It is relevant. If you look at a healthy Laxus vs Wahl it's literally just Laxus one shotting him LMAOOO. Wahl only was beating Laxus was when he couldn't move. So yeah Laxus got 'owned' only when he couldn't move.

Eh, get your facts straight.

Healthy Laxus vs. Wall:
Chapter 472 page 1-19
Chapter 473 page 12-20

Yes, that was my point. Wall owned Laxus because his illness affected him, hence did I exclude that part of the fight because it would be an unfair comparison. Don't really get what the problem is here.

Oh so I see you're bitching about Laxus learning a new type of magic when he just spent a whole year training and one of his bodyguards is a justu shiki expert? Yeah, sure thing.

So I guess Laxus surpassed Freed "the expert" in Jutsu Shiki during one year? Keep on believing.

Him being wayy stronger than Wahl =/= Him one shotting August. Keep putting words in my mouth, it won't make your argument any better but whatever helps you cope.

Facepalm.

Red lightning is seemingly one of Laxus stronger moves and Laxus' is miles ahead of Wendy. Stop this bias? WHAT FEATS DO ANY OF WENDY'S SPELLS HAVE THAT MAKE THEM COMPARABLE TO A MOVE THAT TOOK OUT A SPRIGGAN.

Attack potency.

Spoiler

That statue has a better durability than Wall.

A punch muuch weaker than anything Laxus has. Yeah, nice argument.

Nice opinion.

What? Did I just see the exact words "Red lightning is nothing comparable to DF Wendy's secret art"??? Yo BP, you gotta chill man. I mean, I'm 95 percent sure you're trying to troll Laxus fans, but you're going too far bro.

Laxus wins without too much difficulty. Sherria doesn't have a slayer advantage over Laxus like she did with Dimaria. Her speed and CQC is impressive, but outside of those two fields she doesn't have mich going for hee in this fight. Not gonna lie, TO Sherria gets overrated pretty hard on these forum.

Nah, I wasn't really trolling when I said that. Don't get what everyone sees in Red Lightning, Wendy's Secret Art looks far more impressive than a punch boosted by lightning imo:

Spoiler

Anyway, I guess we'll never know what Red Lightning is capable of. Since it took out a bad durability Spriggan I can't really determine its power.

 

[Brandish μ]

The way I interpreted the fight... Ultear gave Chelia Third Origin because God Slaying Magic is effective against gods. Note that base Dimaria isn't really a god. She has a God Soul Takeover similar to how Mirajane has a Demon Takeover. She isn't actually a demon when she is in her regular form... Anyways, Chelia's goal was to cancel out Dimaria's God Soul and revert her back to her base form. From there, it is just a matter of magic power needed in order to take out Dimaria.

I agree that DiMaria/Mira's takeovers work the same (you could throw in other takeover users too). They are humans who can merge with souls.

When they take damage in their takeovers, their human selves take damage. For this one I think her takeover was being undone as Sherria hit her. However I can see why you would think the takeover was done, and then Sherria hit her with her best attack.

 

[The President]

Based on the fact that it doesn't make sense for DF Natsu to have more MP than Gray and Silver combined. As for the Mard Geer fight, DeS Gray and Natsu were not equal. Gray was clearly doing better. You keep calling it "slayer advantage" but I'm telling you, that wasn't the only factor. Devil Slaying Magic is not only super effective against demons... It increases the user's power as well.

DF doesn't increase MP, it spikes his general power (ie physical stats and potency of attacks). Plus Gray was not at full power when receiving Silvers MP and Silver wasn't at full power either, so its not literally adding Silvers power on top of Grays. Its adding a portion of Silvers power on top of a portion of Grays, who was at least a tier weaker then Natsu prior to the power-up, if not more. Telling me Gray was doing better doesn't prove anything, show me him doing better in a way that doesn't involve the slayer advantage. Demon Slaying Magic is generally more potent then regular ice, it doesn't spike the users MP or physical stats or anything.

Even when I say they're about the same in power, you still deny it...I don't see how landing a hit is related to power, but you have your own way of defining things I guess.

Because they clearly aren't. Landing a hit at the very least means that DF Natsus speed eclipsed (by a lot) that of DeS Gray. Considering how far Mard was sent flying its safe to say that DF Natsus physical strength also eclipses DeS Grays. The gap is clearly there, DeS Gray isn't better then DF Natsu in anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Look at your last sentence. Note the word, before. I'm not talking about before, I'm talking about when Dimaria got hit.

This is before Dimaria got hit. Note that she is in the process of turning back to her base form (bottom panel).

This is when she actually got hit

And this is Dimaria afterwards (top-right panel).

The "when" is a DiMaria that is essentially KOd. The damage has been dealt, the next page her consciousness officially fades. Are you under the impression that DiMaria reverts back to base right before getting hit or something? Why would that happen? Or are you saying the mere presence of god slaying magic makes her revert back to base lol........

Wahl is a machina so chances are, he can't be bruised. The only real indication we have of Wahl's durability is the last panel when he got torn apart by Red Lightning. As for Dimaria, she easily beats Wahl when it comes to durability. She didn't even flinch from a full on attack from DF Wendy.

Wahl is a cyborg to be exact.

Spoiler

The proxys are shown with "bruises" and they are less human-like then Wahl himself. Either way, even if Wahl was unable to get a bruise, he still has the robot equivalent of that in the form of a dent so the point is kinda moot. So yes, we have plenty of durability feats coming from him in the form of completely no-selling each and every one of Laxuses punches. Saying DiMaria tanked a full on attack from DF Wendy is misleading. She tanked a PUNCH from DF Wendy. Had it been a magic attack I might have been a little more impressed but physical strength is easily one of Wendys worst traits and she did it while under immense pain so it stands to reason that it wouldn't have even been a full power punch at that. So yeah, doing what DiMaria did in regards to durability is not impressive in the slightest (by Spriggan standards), its easily several tiers below tanking Laxuses punches in impressiveness.

No, this is exactly what I am contesting. A GMG Laxus level character with super effective magic still won't beat Dimaria. You put a lot of emphasis on slayer advantage when power is really the main factor. Slayer advantage is secondary to power.

Bro, your STILL not understanding what I am saying. I am not saying that a GMG Laxus character with a slayer advantage beats DiMaria in a fight. I am saying that if DiMaria stood in one spot and the GMG Laxus level character charged up a super effective god slayer attack and fired it off at the stationary DiMaria it would one-shot her.

But that is still an assumption...

A lot of things around here are assumptions, probable and/or logical assumptions are fair game.

It's not extrapolating. It's the conditions of the thread.

If it says that TO Chelia gets to stay in that form for the whole fight then sure. If it doesn't then the only TO Chelia I know is the one that fought DiMaria so saying she has more time/MP then that is definitely extrapolating.

Don't blame Chelia for getting help from 3 characters. Technically, Ultear didn't help. She only made the fight fair. As for Carla, she was literally fodder and did nothing. Wendy is the only one who actually helped Chelia but then you have to take into account that Chelia didn't have Third Origin for the majority of the fight.

Ultear negated Age Seal for her. There is a chance she would have been strong enough to not be affected by it, but thats up for debate. Carla was fodder for the laser that otherwise may have pierced Chelia or Wendy changing the course of the fight.

Sure, Laxus fought a Spriggan and defeated him while suffering from MBP's (illegitimately) but that is why Laxus > TO Chelia. I'm not debating this. I'm simply saying that you are downplaying Chelia when you say she isn't Spriggan level. She literally took out a Spriggan with only one attack. Even if Chelia has slayer advantage, it wasn't the deciding factor in the fight.

Him being >>> TO Chelia is one thing. This specifically shows that his endurance also eclipses hers. It was one fully charged attack and I doubt that Dimaria would have been KOd had it not had a slayer advantage over her. Highly doubtable.

How can you honestly think it will happen? Laxus can't even defeat someone like Erza in the manner you are proposing. And since TO Chelia is at least on Erza's level, your hypothetical situation won't happen. If it does, then I can say TO Chelia one-shots Laxus by using her strongest attack... This is totally unrealistic...

Erza has lightning armour to halve the damage and potentially survive an attack (even then she would still likely have pretty severe injuries). Chelia doesn't have such a luxury. Unless Chelia is durable enough to withstand the attack, can make a defence strong enough to withstand it (or at least mitigate it), has an attack that can offset the attack or can blitz Laxus before he fires it off she's getting fried. I could name quite a few characters who can do one or more of those four, its hard (given how strong Laxus is) to do but not impossible. Chelia simply doesn't fit the bill. Either way that would be a curbstomp, I am giving this fight an Easy-Diff simply because its not in Laxuses nature to start off by firing a nuke.

Wahl is not that fast when compared to some of the other Spriggans, so Laxus matching him in speed is considered average.

Sure he is. He is easily average Spriggan level in speed. DiMaria might be a little faster but not by that much.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

DF doesn't increase MP, it spikes his general power (ie physical stats and potency of attacks). Plus Gray was not at full power when receiving Silvers MP and Silver wasn't at full power either, so its not literally adding Silvers power on top of Grays. Its adding a portion of Silvers power on top of a portion of Grays, who was at least a tier weaker then Natsu prior to the power-up, if not more. Telling me Gray was doing better doesn't prove anything, show me him doing better in a way that doesn't involve the slayer advantage. Demon Slaying Magic is generally more potent then regular ice, it doesn't spike the users MP or physical stats or anything.

If Dragon Force doesn't increase MP, how come people can sense an increase in DF Natsu's power before he even uses an attack? Surely physical stats and attack potency aren't an indication of that.

As for Gray and Silver not being full power, MP regenerates over time. Otherwise, I can say Natsu wasn't at full power either...

I disagree. Based on the recent chapters, we now know that Demon Slaying Magic does actually affect a person's stats.

Gray was not even close to being a tier weaker than Natsu... That contradicts the manga. We saw LFD Natsu fight Etherious Tempesta evenly. He arguably could have lost. As for Gray, we saw him match Silver. He would probably lose in the long run but the point is that LFD Natsu and Gray both couldn't beat their respective opponents. I'm actually being lenient to Natsu here, considering Silver is stronger than Etherious Tempesta.

Because they clearly aren't. Landing a hit at the very least means that DF Natsus speed eclipsed (by a lot) that of DeS Gray. Considering how far Mard was sent flying its safe to say that DF Natsus physical strength also eclipses DeS Grays. The gap is clearly there, DeS Gray isn't better then DF Natsu in anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong.

We didn't see Gray use physical strength in his battle with Mard Geer, so I can't compare him to Natsu there. But let's just say DF Natsu has better physicals than Gray due to his DF... Like I said earlier, Gray could have better magic power instead. According to Invel, Demon Slaying Magic makes a person stronger due to the darkness consuming them.

The "when" is a DiMaria that is essentially KOd. The damage has been dealt, the next page her consciousness officially fades. Are you under the impression that DiMaria reverts back to base right before getting hit or something? Why would that happen? Or are you saying the mere presence of god slaying magic makes her revert back to base lol........

I'm saying being hit by God Slaying Magic does undo or cancel out her God Soul. Yes, I truly believe that can happen. It is definitely a possibility considering how the panels were drawn.

Wahl is a cyborg to be exact.

Spoiler

The proxys are shown with "bruises" and they are less human-like then Wahl himself. Either way, even if Wahl was unable to get a bruise, he still has the robot equivalent of that in the form of a dent so the point is kinda moot. So yes, we have plenty of durability feats coming from him in the form of completely no-selling each and every one of Laxuses punches. Saying DiMaria tanked a full on attack from DF Wendy is misleading. She tanked a PUNCH from DF Wendy. Had it been a magic attack I might have been a little more impressed but physical strength is easily one of Wendys worst traits and she did it while under immense pain so it stands to reason that it wouldn't have even been a full power punch at that. So yeah, doing what DiMaria did in regards to durability is not impressive in the slightest (by Spriggan standards), its easily several tiers below tanking Laxuses punches in impressiveness.

If Wahl is as durable as you claim, that would mean he was in perfect condition up until Laxus used Red Lightning. In other words, Laxus one-shotted him... How can that be a good display of durability?

Still, when Wahl "tanked" Laxus' punches, he was pushed back a mile. Whereas, Dimaria didn't flinch or move.

Bro, your STILL not understanding what I am saying. I am not saying that a GMG Laxus character with a slayer advantage beats DiMaria in a fight. I am saying that if DiMaria stood in one spot and the GMG Laxus level character charged up a super effective god slayer attack and fired it off at the stationary DiMaria it would one-shot her.

I already understand that... lol... I'm never said GMG Laxus. I said a character on GMG Laxus' level. We're basically saying the same thing. The only difference is I don't believe a character on GMG Laxus' level would one-shot Dmimaria even with a super effective attack.

A lot of things around here are assumptions, probable and/or logical assumptions are fair game.

I consider mine the same way you consider yours.

If it says that TO Chelia gets to stay in that form for the whole fight then sure. If it doesn't then the only TO Chelia I know is the one that fought DiMaria so saying she has more time/MP then that is definitely extrapolating.

Okay, then I guess we need more clarification. I was under the impression we are only comparing TO Chelia and Laxus. Of course, once Chelia goes back to her normal form, she'll be fodderized.

Ultear negated Age Seal for her. There is a chance she would have been strong enough to not be affected by it, but thats up for debate. Carla was fodder for the laser that otherwise may have pierced Chelia or Wendy changing the course of the fight.

Maybe or maybe not. We don't know the limits or restrictions of Age Seal but we'll find out soon enough. Well, again, we're comparing TO Chelia here. And she was shown to deflect that laser. If this is Base Chelia, I have no doubts that Laxus would win this with No Difficulty.

Erza has lightning armour to halve the damage and potentially survive an attack (even then she would still likely have pretty severe injuries). Chelia doesn't have such a luxury. Unless Chelia is durable enough to withstand the attack, can make a defence strong enough to withstand it (or at least mitigate it), has an attack that can offset the attack or can blitz Laxus before he fires it off she's getting fried. I could name quite a few characters who can do one or more of those four, its hard (given how strong Laxus is) to do but not impossible. Chelia simply doesn't fit the bill. Either way that would be a curbstomp, I am giving this fight an Easy-Diff simply because its not in Laxuses nature to start off by firing a nuke.

Okay, well then we just disagree here. Even if Erza doesn't use Lightning Empress Armor, I still don't see her being one-shotted by Laxus. I don't know about you but one-shotting is a notable feat that shouldn't be taken lightly. It rarely happens and when it does, there is a obvious reason for it.

Because this is dragging on and we aren't getting anywhere, I'll read your last post but won't reply. This is just one of the fights where neither side can agree.

 

[The President]

If Dragon Force doesn't increase MP, how come people can sense an increase in DF Natsu's power before he even uses an attack? Surely physical stats and attack potency aren't an indication of that.

Because his presence is stronger in DF just like in FDKM, it doesn't actually increase MP capacity. There are no modes that give more MP then you normally have other then those where someone literally gives you their MP (or you eat theirs).

As for Gray and Silver not being full power, MP regenerates over time. Otherwise, I can say Natsu wasn't at full power either...

That would be fair for Grays normal MP. However Silver gave Gray a set amount of MP that he had in his weakened state and that MP could only decrease over time.

I disagree. Based on the recent chapters, we now know that Demon Slaying Magic does actually affect a person's stats.

Gray has developed his own demon slaying mode that has nothing to do with the base DeS magic that he uses. The mode is completely different then from just using DeS magic in base.

Gray was not even close to being a tier weaker than Natsu... That contradicts the manga. We saw LFD Natsu fight Etherious Tempesta evenly. He arguably could have lost. As for Gray, we saw him match Silver. He would probably lose in the long run but the point is that LFD Natsu and Gray both couldn't beat their respective opponents. I'm actually being lenient to Natsu here, considering Silver is stronger than Etherious Tempesta.

He definitely was. Gray Mid-High Diff'd Rufus (and thats partially because he is a perfect counter) while Natsu easily defeat the DS duo combined. Rufus might have been stronger then either of the twins individually (back at GMG) but he definitely wasn't stronger then both of them together.

Silver wasn't trying in the least. He was pretty much standing in one spot and taking all of Grays attacks. Gray barely defeated his opponent who wasn't trying while Natsu was as strong if not stronger then his own opponent.

We didn't see Gray use physical strength in his battle with Mard Geer, so I can't compare him to Natsu there. But let's just say DF Natsu has better physicals than Gray due to his DF... Like I said earlier, Gray could have better magic power instead. According to Invel, Demon Slaying Magic makes a person stronger due to the darkness consuming them.

Yes we did, he even enhanced his strength with ice and he broke out of Mards grip at the exact same time as Natsu and hit him equally. Its seriously not even debatable, I don't understand why you act like it is. Had Grays physicals been anywhere near DF Natsus he would have quickly ended Mard like he did Tempesta, yet canonically he couldn't even land a hit with the help of Natsu.

I'm saying being hit by God Slaying Magic does undo or cancel out her God Soul. Yes, I truly believe that can happen. It is definitely a possibility considering how the panels were drawn.

Only once the attack actually hits her, by which time her chronos durability would have already taken effect. As for how they were drawn, I am pretty sure that we saw DiMarias face because we wouldn't be able to see her expression in her God Soul state, either way it doesn't really demerit my point.

If Wahl is as durable as you claim, that would mean he was in perfect condition up until Laxus used Red Lightning. In other words, Laxus one-shotted him... How can that be a good display of durability?

Yes he was at virtually perfect condition up until Laxus one-shotted him. However Laxuses attack was supper effective against Wahl. It was red lightning, a lightning that Wahl did not recognize and develop an immunity to but still fundamentally a lightning attack and we learn earlier that lightning attacks are super effective against mechs like Wahl. Essentially Wahl fell to a super effective move just like DiMaria, but Wahl fell to a much stronger move.

Still, when Wahl "tanked" Laxus' punches, he was pushed back a mile. Whereas, Dimaria didn't flinch or move.

No, Laxus was pushed back a mile when hit. When Laxus hit Wahl the first time he was caught off guard, and he only traveled several metres back. That has more to do with footing then actual durability. The second time he was slammed into concrete. The third time he broke the roof of a wooden house.

I already understand that... lol... I'm never said GMG Laxus. I said a character on GMG Laxus' level. We're basically saying the same thing. The only difference is I don't believe a character on GMG Laxus' level would one-shot Dmimaria even with a super effective attack.

Ok well that clears things up. The fact that Gray basically one-shotted Mard kinda disapproves that though.

Okay, well then we just disagree here. Even if Erza doesn't use Lightning Empress Armor, I still don't see her being one-shotted by Laxus. I don't know about you but one-shotting is a notable feat that shouldn't be taken lightly. It rarely happens and when it does, there is a obvious reason for it.

Yeah I understand. I view a one-shot as something only a character a couple tiers ahead could do (or unless there are specific means, like super effectiveness). It just so happens that I also view Laxus as several tiers ahead of Erza/TO Chelia (I peg them at around the same level). I believe Laxus could Mid-Diff someone of Ajeels level and Ajeel could Mid-Diff someone of Erzas level. Thats 2+ tiers of gap in strength.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Again, you don't get my point. A Lightning Mage receiving a new advanced lighting spell that apparently DOES affect someone who is immune to lightning is an advantage. Laxus would've badly lost if he didn't receive Red Lightning at the point he needed it the most.

So you're still crying about a new move after a time skip....Like I just said.

Eh, get your facts straight.

Healthy Laxus vs. Wall:
Chapter 472 page 1-19
Chapter 473 page 12-20

That's not a healthy Laxus, Wahl himself at the start of teh fight Laxus shouldn't of been standing up. A healthy Laxus vs Wahl is him one shotting Wahl.

Yes, that was my point. Wall owned Laxus because his illness affected him, hence did I exclude that part of the fight because it would be an unfair comparison. Don't really get what the problem is here.

His illness was affecting him the whole fight but it was at it's worst then. Laxus was only cured at the end when he one shot him.

So I guess Laxus surpassed Freed "the expert" in Jutsu Shiki during one year? Keep on believing.

Surpassed? Making one justu shiki doesn't mean he surpassed Fried??? KEEP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH THOUGH.

Attack potency.

Spoiler

That statue has a better durability than Wall.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA! Did you just say that tarturus DF Wendy has a move stronger than red lightning? Prove that the FACE BOMB is more durable than Wahl

Nice opinion.

It's not an opinion unless you can prove WENDY IS ANYWHERE NEAR LAXUS.

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Laxus stomps. A basic nuke must be enough.

Spoiler

Ok, maybe I'm being hyperbolic (something I doubt) but he won't need Red Lightning