Shounen Toriko by Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro

[Zoro #1]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

I don't think this is totally correct. Sure, Gourmet Cells help a ton, but there are still people like Acacia that should have been pretty strong before people had Gourmet Cells implanted into them.

And then there are people like Melk II, there's no proof she has gourmet cells, and she's still relatively strong IIRC. Not to mention the food honor people besides Chin, and Match.

The Gourmet Knights too, maybe, besides Ai, since I'm not sure how their cells could evolve without eating extravagantly.

Lets not forget that some of the Best Chefs are human and started out plain, even Setsuna doesn't seem to have Gourmet cells in her, I think the Chefs don't really need gourmet cells rather they rely on food luck and their tech. to pass in the GW. Plus Komatsu seems to have improved a lot so I am not really concerned as long he improves in his tech.

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Acacia and Frohze doesn't have Gourmet Cells before they discovered the Gourmet Jellyfish. But they're already strong during that time.

Ichiryuu, Jiro and Midora also might not have Gourmet Cells before they became Acacia's followers. It only proves that even without Gourmet Cells, there are exceptional people that can still be strong.

We haven't seen Acacia and Frohze and yet you say something like that ? Who told you that they're strong before discovering the Gourmet Jellyfish ? We have 0 idea about that.

We know nothing about Ichiryuu, Jirou, Midora's past... Who told you that they were Bishokuya before meeting Acacia and becoming his disciples ? Stop throwing things like this and considering them as facts.

Lets not forget that some of the Best Chefs are human and started out plain, even Setsuna doesn't seem to have Gourmet cells in her, I think the Chefs don't really need gourmet cells rather they rely on food luck and their tech. to pass in the GW. Plus Komatsu seems to have improved a lot so I am not really concerned as long he improves in his tech.

Setsuno does have Gourmet Cells... If you still doubt that, I'd probably just ask you to reread that part where she met Alfaro at Ice Hell and you'll get it.
It is already established, I don't get why you people suddenly brings that out... Superhuman power = Gourmet Cells. It's easy as that, and don't think that the author will waste time saying who does have Gourmet Cells and who doesn't... It's obvious.

 

[llydnarz]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

We haven't seen Acacia and Frohze and yet you say something like that ? Who told you that they're strong before discovering the Gourmet Jellyfish ? We have 0 idea about that.

We know nothing about Ichiryuu, Jirou, Midora's past... Who told you that they were Bishokuya before meeting Acacia and becoming his disciples ? Stop throwing things like this and considering them as facts.

Acacia and Frohze didn't become legendary just because of their gourmet cells. I'm pretty sure they're already strong before the discovery of the gourmet jellyfish.
And let me just quote what you've said, "let me put it clearly : Superhuman feats and power = Gourmet Cells in Toriko's world"
Aren't you the first who threw things and considered them facts?

As Zatono said, Match and also Takimaru are the best example of someone who have Power and could perform Superhuman feats without needing to have gourmet cells. If Match doesn't have those two, I don't think he would survive an encounter against the strongest heavenly king.
And Takimaru defeated a bishokukai branch chief.

Now if you have doubts about them not having gourmet cells, just take a look at these links:
http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?p=4417184 Post #34
http://toriko.wikia.com/wiki/Match read the comments section

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Acacia and Frohze didn't become legendary just because of their gourmet cells. I'm pretty sure they're already strong before the discovery of the gourmet jellyfish.
And let me just quote what you've said, "let me put it clearly : Superhuman feats and power = Gourmet Cells in Toriko's world"
Aren't you the first who threw things and considered them facts?

As Zatono said, Match and also Takimaru are the best example of someone who have Power and could perform Superhuman feats without needing to have gourmet cells. If Match doesn't have those two, I don't think he would survive an encounter against the strongest heavenly king.
And Takimaru defeated a bishokukai branch chief.

Now if you have doubts about them not having gourmet cells, just take a look at these links:
http://forum.onemanga.com/showthread.php?p=4417184 Post #34
http://toriko.wikia.com/wiki/Match read the comments section

I'm not throwing facts, as it has been said by Sani himself.
But you, you keep bringing " people's comments " as a fact... They're not Shimabukuro as far as I recall right ? So, they're automaticlly disregarded.

About Takimaru, he does have gourmet cells.

Now get your facts straight, and wether you're sure Acacia and Frohze are strong is irrelevant because such a thing wasn't shown once in the manga, it is your opinion, that I respect, but that is not absolute.

 

[llydnarz]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

I'm not throwing facts, as it has been said by Sani himself.
But you, you keep bringing " people's comments " as a fact... They're not Shimabukuro as far as I recall right ? So, they're automaticlly disregarded.

About Takimaru, he does have gourmet cells.

Now get your facts straight, and wether you're sure Acacia and Frohze are strong is irrelevant because such a thing wasn't shown once in the manga, it is your opinion, that I respect, but that is not absolute.

Could you tell me exactly where Sani said that "only" people with gourmet cells could do superhuman things?

And about Toriko commenting on Takimaru's cell growth, that was AFTER Century Soup arc where Takimaru got severely wounded and Teppei treated him.
As you can see here, http://www.mangareader.net/349-51731-4/toriko/chapter-94.html the Doctor Aloe that was wrapped on Takimaru's body has the ability to heal CELLS.

So Takimaru could have received some gourmet cells from that bandage which Toriko noticed.
And look at Toriko's words: "Your cells have really evolved since before"
Now that BEFORE could mean when Takimaru still have normal cells.

But still, we are not sure if Takimaru really have gourmet cells. Toriko could also mean the cells that were affected by the "Curse" which was healed.

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Could you tell me exactly where Sani said that "only" people with gourmet cells could do superhuman things?

And about Toriko commenting on Takimaru's cell growth, that was AFTER Century Soup arc where Takimaru got severely wounded and Teppei treated him.
As you can see here, http://www.mangareader.net/349-51731-4/toriko/chapter-94.html the Doctor Aloe that was wrapped on Takimaru's body has the ability to heal CELLS.

So Takimaru could have received some gourmet cells from that bandage which Toriko noticed.
And look at Toriko's words: "Your cells have really evolved since before"
Now that BEFORE could mean when Takimaru still have normal cells.

But still, we are not sure if Takimaru really have gourmet cells. Toriko could also mean the cells that were affected by the "Curse" which was healed.

He said that injecting people with Gourmet Cells gives birth to supermen... If it isn't clear enough, I don't know how can I explain it more than that...

Yeah the Dotor Aloe that heals " CELLS THAT HAVE NECROSIS LIKE BURNS OR FROSTBITES " (nice how you disregarded this part too...)
And also, what Sani said, Gourmet Cells come from the Gourmet Jellyfish, not from Doctor Aloe, again, you just keep on spouting theories and such with nothing to back it up, like this whole Takimaru could have received GC from Doctor Aloe. And also, by before, Toriko meant the last time he met him at Ice Hell, nothing else nothing more.

Also, the GW disease wasn't completely healed, Aimaru did absorb it but it wasn't enough, as even Yosaku said that Takimaru still does have it. And also, that medecine was for Aimaru to begin with, so it's not like Takimaru ate it and was healed.

 

[noonethere]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/38903/toriko_ch50_by_map-scans
Concerning whether Acacia had Gourmet Cells or not, from the link above, it does mention that Acacia was already an accomplished Bishokuya before discovering Gourmet Cells, indicating that he was already strong enough even before he could have gourmet cells. Also in the link given by Zehahaha, the last panel seems to indicate that his disciplines are the first successful examples of human with Gourmet cells. Moreover, the constant comparison of Komatsu with Frohze may indicate that Frohze wasn't the atheletic type..Well, in the end, its still speculation....

 

[llydnarz]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

He said that injecting people with Gourmet Cells gives birth to supermen... If it isn't clear enough, I don't know how can I explain it more than that...

Yeah the Dotor Aloe that heals " CELLS THAT HAVE NECROSIS LIKE BURNS OR FROSTBITES " (nice how you disregarded this part too...)
And also, what Sani said, Gourmet Cells come from the Gourmet Jellyfish, not from Doctor Aloe, again, you just keep on spouting theories and such with nothing to back it up, like this whole Takimaru could have received GC from Doctor Aloe. And also, by before, Toriko meant the last time he met him at Ice Hell, nothing else nothing more.

Also, the GW disease wasn't completely healed, Aimaru did absorb it but it wasn't enough, as even Yosaku said that Takimaru still does have it. And also, that medecine was for Aimaru to begin with, so it's not like Takimaru ate it and was healed.

But he didn't say that only those supermen with gourmet cells could perform superhuman feats.
What you said was Superhuman feats and Power = Gourmet cells. And "You need Gourmet Cells in order to be strong, if you don't have them you're trash" Which means people who doesn't have gourmet cells can't be strong and can't perform superhuman feats. Am I right?

And about the doctor aloe, are you aware of where and how plants get their nutrients? Aside from the sun, they get them from the soil. And the soil get them from the minerals and the decaying plants and animals. So if an animal with gourmet cell dies and a plant absorbs its nutrients, there is a possibility that it could absorb its cells too.
You must be forgetting that there are other ways to acquire gourmet cells aside from injecting it directly to your body.
He (Acacia) noticed that creatures who ate Gourmet Jellyfish would increase in flavor and would also grow in size and power.
And since plants can't gain the power, it's possible that it gained the healing and regeneration abilities of the gourmet cells.

I did not disregard that part. I just thought it's just common sense that in order to heal those, regeneration is required. And regeneration is one of the known factor of gourmet cells.

And about Takimaru's "curse", I believe it's already healed. Because he travelled to healing country with Toriko and even got a cure for Aimaru's disease. And we know that one of the causes of Aimaru's disease is the same "curse" that Takimaru has. So if Aimaru who has tons of diseases and viruses in his body was healed, then we can assume that Takimaru, who only has a small portion of Aimaru's disease can also be healed.

And the reason why I still believe Takimaru didn't have gourmet cells is in that same chapter. Gourmet Knights have very simple diet. And that kind of diet wouldn't be compatible with gourmet cells. Because Gourmet Cells have very high energy demands, so individuals must consume frequent large amounts of delicious food, lest the cells begin uncontrollably devouring the their body at the cellular level.

So these theories I have been telling are backed by the manga itself. What about your theory of Takimaru having gourmet cells, what do you have to back it up? Toriko only mentioned cells, not gourmet cells. So technically speaking, it's just normal cells.

 

[LoS]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Take this gourmet cell argument to a hangout thread, or pm each other

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

There is canon and fanon. The manga clearly states those with inhuman strength have gourmet cells in them. Therefore I'm totally with Zehahaha on this. As much as llydnarz ideas seem interesting, they are nothing but fanon.

Anyway, since everyone were eating the bubble fruit, it means they are capable of food honour. Even Rin apparently. Even though she has GC in her, she shows no sign of evolution. I assume it means her GC lvl is way to low to react to quality food. Having said that, the dialogue in this chapter about failure equalling success, reminds me of a old conversation about Yosaku.

"Let me tell you how you measure a man, when his world starts to fall see how tall he stand. It matters not how many times you fall down, what matters most is how many times you rise. Mistakes build character, and character takes you places money can't" - T.I.

 

[nyamonyamo]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Anyway, since everyone were eating the bubble fruit, it means they are capable of food honour. Even Rin apparently. Even though she has GC in her, she shows no sign of evolution. I assume it means her GC lvl is way to low to react to quality food. Having said that, the dialogue in this chapter about failure equalling success, reminds me of a old conversation about Yosaku.

"Let me tell you how you measure a man, when his world starts to fall see how tall he stand. It matters not how many times you fall down, what matters most is how many times you rise. Mistakes build character, and character takes you places money can't" - T.I.

A cooked bubble fruit probably dont need all that honor just like after you removed the poison from puffer whale anyone can eat them.
Plus i dont think everyone has gourmet cells. Why would chef have them they just cook not hunt. Probably only bishokuyas have them. I like the idea that komatsu will remain free from getting gourmet cells. It will present more interesting story.

Acacia discovered gourmet cell when he has already journeyed to the ends of earth. that would mean he has already been to gourmet world right even before discovering that jellyfish. This might mean there are other ways to get strong without having gourmet cells

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

A cooked bubble fruit probably dont need all that honor just like after you removed the poison from puffer whale anyone can eat them.

In the disappearing cuisine food was served which needed appreciation. Means even after cooked, there are certain food only edible through appreciation. We know the raw bubble fruit needs appreciation, so why should the cooked fruit be any different? On top of that, Yuda brought them food suited for food immersion. Therefore I'm pretty sure they have mastered food honour.

Plus i dont think everyone has gourmet cells. Why would chef have them they just cook not hunt. Probably only bishokuyas have them. I like the idea that komatsu will remain free from getting gourmet cells. It will present more interesting story.

So far most have top chefs were proven to have GC. Not to mention the series is build up so that only by having a certain amount of GC lvl, you can enter the GW. Chefs accompanying bishokuyas must have GC, to not be a nuisance for their partner

Komatsu is rly a exception though. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if he were get get GC as well. I mean after the Take buildup, does seem possible now.

Acacia discovered gourmet cell when he has already journeyed to the ends of earth. that would mean he has already been to gourmet world right even before discovering that jellyfish. This might mean there are other ways to get strong without having gourmet cells

I believe the "to the end of the earth" part is just a figure of speech. I assume he was somehwat capable, but by only acquiring GC he was able to conqure everything. Also I think god was discovered after the Jellyfish, as such he couldn't have been everywhere.

 

[Buggy]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

I believe that the basics of food honor are not that hard and could be learned from some other source; however, I'm pretty sure there isn't anywhere in the world you could learn food immersion. After all, it is Shokurin Temple's greatest secret. The only way to learn it is walking the bubble road. There is absolutely no way anyone would know food immersion except for Toriko.

Only explanation here is that raw bubble fruit requires food honor and cooked does not, since the requirement is taken away through cooking.

Also, it would be very boring for all of them to learn same techniques. Toriko learned the basics of Sunny's 'intuition' (instinct), but he will never know it on Sunny's level because that's his main technique.

 

[nyamonyamo]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

Plus it was also mention that even some beast have some variation of food honour. So instead of the same way toriko learn there must be other ways of eating food like that. Probably intuition (which doesn't require thought), hermit(probably train to seclusion, a form of meditating?), clairvoyance(to guess/see through), and food honour are their personal training method for each kings are in fact some form of food honour itself.

 

[BlackHair]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

I agree, it makes perfect sense to learn food honour through different ways. After all the president trained them all the same way. Since bubble fruit was on Toriko's list, I assume each had a similar ingredient in which food honour was a purpose to learn. At the end of the day food honour is just a booster skill, much like haki in One piece.

Regarding food immersion, that is just skill to store nourishment. I don't think it is a secret of the temple. I wouldn't be surprised if the other can do that too. Especially since Yuda was rather speaking genereally, instead of just talking to Toriko.

---------- Post added July 16, 2012 at 07:19 AM ---------- Previous post was July 14, 2012 at 02:21 PM ----------

Only explanation here is that raw bubble fruit requires food honor and cooked does not, since the requirement is taken away through cooking.

The bubble fruit is the temple treasure. A temple dedicated to food honour. In a way I consider the bubble fruit as the essence of food honour. Now since in the disappearing cuisine prepared food required food honour, I still expect appreciation in order to eat the cooked temple treasure. Anything else is just devaluing the bubble fruit.

 

[llydnarz]

Re: Toriko 195 Chapter Discussion

I also believe cooked bubble fruit no longer needs food honor or appreciation. It is only required in "capturing" or "harvesting" and cooking the fruit, it would be a pain if food honor is still required in eating it after all the special preparation required in cooking it.
It's already "prepared" before it is served. So I think it's ready to eat.

And if it requires something in order to eat it, Komatsu should have told them before serving it. Because he doesn't know if all of them had learned food honor. And he wouldn't want to spoil all the hard work he's put into cooking it if someone eats it wrong.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

In order to actually adapt to different crazy enviroments you need to have Gourmet Cells. Also to have superhuman power you must have Gourmet Cells.
Even the strongest Chefs have Gourmet Cells. Remember how Setsuno jumped in her basement to a top of her cooking pot. A normal human can't do this for obvious reasons. Hell even Toriko couldn't do this and he was one of the strongest Bishokuya's of his generation with Gourmet Cells.

 

[Zatono]

So thanks to fkm789, I became aware of extra scans in the tank. I asked Kewl to translate the Ichiryuu-Bishokukai interaction, and he even gave me extra.

First up is Aimaru's full course.

Spoiler

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/t3h_2007/doriko20_134.jpg

Also, these weren't in the issues:
Page 134:
Description: "Gourmet Knights"
Leader
Aimaru
Aimaru's Full Course Menu
Hors D'oeuvres Modest Grass (Capture Level 1)
Soup Graceful Soup (Capture Level 1)
Fish Dish Frugal Sardine (Capture Level 2)
Meat Dish Charm Pig (Capture Level 2)
Main Simplicity Rice (Capture Level 1)
Salad Inexhaustable Potato (Capture Level 1)
Dessert Plumpeach (Capture Level 1)
Drink Quiet Tea (Capture Level 1)

Next are some missing pages from the Ichiryuu-Bishokukai interaction.

Spoiler

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/t3h_2007/doriko20_013.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/t3h_2007/doriko20_014.jpg

Page 13:
Ichiryuu: ----Hew.
Looks like I've got no choice.
Guess I'll babysit you guys a bit.
SFX: ZUH
Niceny: ?!
SFX: GUGU

Page 14:
Guys: UOH...
Wh...What the hell...?!
SFX: ZUNYUUU
Guys: Our bodies are...
being pulled toward him...?
Kuromado: The "force of attraction" Ichriyuu possesses----
A stronger "force of attraction" indicates a greater presence for that person.
Dores: He's like a small planet...
What enormous attractive force...
SFX: ZUZUZUZU
SFX: ZUO
Ichiryuu: Hm?

 

[B'arzz]

Woah that was fast! thank you Zatono and of course Kewl for translate the pages its interesting that ichiryu's ability and the aimaru's menu.



Sorry for ask again but also i noticed that shimabukuro give us the names os those guys from the gourmet Knights elite :

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/893/gourmetknhigts.jpg

 

[Zatono]

He gave me that too :3

Page 178:
Descriptions: "Blue Sky Group"
Yukimaru
"Blue Sky Group"
Raimaru
"Hiddden Leaf Group"
Kagemaru
"Milky Way Group"
Tsukimaru
T/N: The names mean Snow-Circle, Thunder-Circle, Shadow-Circle, and Moon-Circle respectively.