Chapter Tower of God Chapter 403 Discussion / 404 Predictions

[Asako]

Hwaryun saying lead the way to some girl while she a guide cracked me up
Well itI was expected that hawryun that only care about making her god powerful lied about the other being in a safe path while bams is dangerous, manipulative hwaryun.

Man evan and yuri are just the best controlling the place where evankhell and his group will land as expected form them
I feel like I'm going to love evankhell with more and more chapter we will she of her, and I'm also really excited to see YHS fight, these up coming chapter will be amazing, as amazing as seeing rachel being salty

 

[kkck]

The point I was making was that essentially no matter which way you slice it her earlier statement about Baam choosing his own path is a lie. Like even if she tells the truth some of the time. If she keeps presenting him with choices based on lies and half truths

It is odd that she didn't come personally. I mean, she's notorious for rarely being actively involved but you'd think this would be an exception right? I wonder if maybe she's going after Luslec?

True, though I still don't think hwa ryun lies all the time. After this odds are that bam is just going to leave her since her agenda clashes with his own.

What strikes me as odd is that she somehow is being portrayed as zealous AND lazy which is...well, contradictory. How would she even go after luslec? If she could just make a move against him then odds are this would have already happened.

 

[King Dryst]

True, though I still don't think hwa ryun lies all the time. After this odds are that bam is just going to leave her since her agenda clashes with his own.

He should but he won't. I get the feeling SIU finds Hwa Ryun far too convenient to ever actually get rid of her. 'Because Guide' is just too much of an easy way to direct the plot wherever he wants to take it without having to be concerned with how the characters arrive at their decisions.

 

[Jammin]

I honestly don't know. FUG was has been so proud and arrogant up to this point that it wouldn't surprise me if Luslec's version of hiding is living in a mansion somewhere with "Luslec's House" printed on a sign out front.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 15, 2018 ---

He should but he won't. I get the feeling SIU finds Hwa Ryun far too convenient to ever actually get rid of her. 'Because Guide' is just too much of an easy way to direct the plot wherever he wants to take it without having to be concerned with how the characters arrive at their decisions.

Pretty much this. I don't think she's leaving anytime soon.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Well but the fact remains that Bam just went off to save them, though making his own choice. I still believe that this as well is a plan made by Hwa Ryun for various reasons. Number one: She knows Bam's personality pretty well and she expects him to just stay put while saying "yeah, your companions are going to die for the greater good - but don't worry, i let the people who are more dear to you survive." That would make her just stupid and from all the things she might be she is clearly not deaf.

Reason number two: How the hell does Evan know about the Karaka armor warp portal and his underlings lying in wait? It seems he knew it before he confronted Karaka and persuaded him to "being captured". I suggest Hwa told him.
Since she probably knew that reinforcements would arrive, i suppose she wanted Bam to stay put til they arrive. The chances of them being captured and used as hostages (so far no damage done) were quite decent as well (plus she is a guide so she probably literally saw it).

The third one being that she could have just lied to Bam about them being fine, she sees them being fine or shit like it (it's Bam after all, he would have probably swallowed it). But she didn't. She straight up told him and risked loosing the one person which can fulfill her whish. That's not like her.

1- Maybe her plan covers that possibility as well already. He did stay safe until help arrived, whatever Bam decides could be null to his safety afterwards.
2- I do think its all due to the fact Evan is also a Guide. He can find paths that although illogical, are possible and achieve Impossible feats.
3- See point one. I think her plan already worked past point of possible failure.

 

[Ripcord]

I honestly don't know. FUG was has been so proud and arrogant up to this point that it wouldn't surprise me if Luslec's version of hiding is living in a mansion somewhere with "Luslec's House" printed on a sign out front.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 15, 2018 ---

Pretty much this. I don't think she's leaving anytime soon.

Yes that’s true. It’s a built in Deus Ex Machina so it doesn’t really feel that way. They are one of the coolest and hardest to accept aspects of ToG in my opinion.

 

[Jammin]

Yes that’s true. It’s a built in Deus Ex Machina so it doesn’t really feel that way. They are one of the coolest and hardest to accept aspects of ToG in my opinion.

I used to absolutely despise FUG. At the beginning of part 2 the way they were used and implemented was pretty rough. The whole "darkness" theme they had going was so very chunni. That said, starting at the hell train, and continuing on to where we are now, I think SIU has refined them a lot. And made them a much better story element than they once were.

The idea that the first floor guardian would objectively assist Evenkhell and Karaka is one of the most interesting things ever to happen with them. Which would explain a lot about how they have been able to play it so loosely with the towers rules and interfering with tests and allowing Rankers to mess with Regulars.

And meeting data Zahard and Gustang made me think that what was really going on with them infesting the lower floors of the tower was that they just didn't care enough to actually do anything.

That said, they are still the least interesting faction in the tower to me but I got to give SIU props for doing much better with them. This is arc is definitely their best moment to date but it doesn't really erase the more questionably written stuff earlier on.

 

[Wha]

To your first point it could be. Though for some reason I doubt it. I think she got him this far and figured he'd recognize the impossibility of turning back.

To your second point, maybe, though against in that case she's style lied about choice. Which takes a choice away from him. That's always been my problem with her. She's not trying to guide him. She's trying to control him.

To your third point I don't think she had much choice. Baam was looking at fairly convincing evidence that his friends were screwed. So he's not just going to let this go with "trust me". Also Androssi was standing right there. Baam may be gullible but she's not. So her odds of conning him past this were zero percent, IMO.

Of course you could be right but i think that i am because the exact same situation happened before. Bam was in the "safe zone" and went back into the lions den to save his companions. I am talking about the workshop battle. One of the hostages was Hwa Ryun - so i just doubt that she didn't see that possibility (and considered it while making her plans).

Depends on your point of view. For me it's like this: Hwa Ryun wants Bam to survive. So instead of letting him rush to his death, she tries saving his life while respecting his whishes. Lets say she is honest and tells him that the other team are the scapegoats. He would insist of moving together with them. If they move together, it's more likely for them to get caught. With tricking him she get's what she wants (him staying alive) and he does (if it turns out that i am correct).

"Trust me" would have (most likely) been enough. We are talking about Bam. And i wouldn't count on Androssi, depends what kind of relationship she has got with them. She had no problem whatsoever to screw Rachel together with Hwa Ryun - and so far she didn't bother to tell Bam.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2018 ---

1- Maybe her plan covers that possibility as well already. He did stay safe until help arrived, whatever Bam decides could be null to his safety afterwards.
2- I do think its all due to the fact Evan is also a Guide. He can find paths that although illogical, are possible and achieve Impossible feats.
3- See point one. I think her plan already worked past point of possible failure.

point 1. and 3. i completely agree with. Point 2 - could be, but i think it was Hwa because she had that talk with Evan and there was something about a decision (Yuri and Evan) that the plan would depend on.

 

[shaheer]

Evan did something useful for once with his guide powers without a substantially lower ranked guide telling him what to do (HR), which given his rank should be otherwise. We should mark this day and chapter in our TOG calendar.

 

[Wha]

Evan did something useful for once with his guide powers without a substantially lower ranked guide telling him what to do (HR), which given his rank should be otherwise. We should mark this day and chapter in our TOG calendar.

since you stated it - i always wondered if Hwa Ryun is even a regular? Yeah she was on the floor of test and taking the wave controller class but first of all, she kinda failed there and second she is a guide so she could probably be there without being selected to climb the tower (especially if we consider that Hansung run that place at that time)

 

[shaheer]

Probably she is not a regular rather a ranker... its difficult to say. I iust think if you are in top 100 rank and not as powerful as yuri you should be damn good at what your speciality is, evan displays abilities that you can barely pass off as a ranker. With a 100 rank he should have sneezed karkara good bye or saw 50000 options to take and pounting which option is the best option. Instead the only 2 things he did thats worth mentioning is to lead yuri to Bam using the magma flow and now knowing that gate opening portal will lead something drastic in which will increase their chance of living substantially.
On the other hand, in FoD HR manipulated yuri evan and the whole lot to do her biddings. Cant imagine what SIU was thinking when giving Evan that high rank but he sure has 0 interest in substantiating that. Tbh SIU does diff tours and panels..iirc 2/3 yrs ago he came to Frankfurt and i used to live in karlsruhe doing my studies there. If he visited a place this close to mine now i d go to the gathering and the first question i ll ask is why evan is ranked 100 when HR calls the shots and do you plan to give Evan any substantial role given you ranked him so high and allow him to get thrashed by a braindead princess... that probably will get me kicked out but it d be worth it.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

It was said when she popped up again in the story that Guides don't require tests to climb the Tower and are free to go anywhere ever since they become one.

 

[Brian Taboada]

I used to absolutely despise FUG. At the beginning of part 2 the way they were used and implemented was pretty rough. The whole "darkness" theme they had going was so very chunni. That said, starting at the hell train, and continuing on to where we are now, I think SIU has refined them a lot. And made them a much better story element than they once were.

The idea that the first floor guardian would objectively assist Evenkhell and Karaka is one of the most interesting things ever to happen with them. Which would explain a lot about how they have been able to play it so loosely with the towers rules and interfering with tests and allowing Rankers to mess with Regulars.

And meeting data Zahard and Gustang made me think that what was really going on with them infesting the lower floors of the tower was that they just didn't care enough to actually do anything.

That said, they are still the least interesting faction in the tower to me but I got to give SIU props for doing much better with them. This is arc is definitely their best moment to date but it doesn't really erase the more questionably written stuff earlier on.

This is very true. At first we are led to believe that Zahard is the good guys and FUG is evil. But as we climb the tower with Baam, we find that the lines are much more blurred than that. Zahard really is not a good guy and could care less about the regulars in the tower. FUG is trying to change that. The question is if FUGs idea of change is better or just swapping one bad thing for another?

 

[kkck]

So... can someone explain to me what it is that evan did? He seems to have changed were karaka's minions and evankhell would appear but I am not sure of how this came about.

 

[Ripcord]

since you stated it - i always wondered if Hwa Ryun is even a regular? Yeah she was on the floor of test and taking the wave controller class but first of all, she kinda failed there and second she is a guide so she could probably be there without being selected to climb the tower (especially if we consider that Hansung run that place at that time)

I was just wondering that in my car this morning! I don’t think she’s a Ranker but I wonder if she’s WAY older than she let’s on. Why would FUG entrust such an important irregular with a rookie young no-nothing guide? She must have proven her guide skills to FUG to be entrusted to Bam.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2018 ---

Evan did something useful for once with his guide powers without a substantially lower ranked guide telling him what to do (HR), which given his rank should be otherwise. We should mark this day and chapter in our TOG calendar.

Don’t hate on Evan. I love Evan and I think the story is written in a way to highlight Hwaryun and we don’t see Evan shine so much. He got Yuri to the Floor of Tests on his own and got Yuri to Bam on the Hell Train.

I agree though it was really awesome to see him accomplish this task like Obi Wan shutting down the tractor beam.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2018 ---

So... can someone explain to me what it is that evan did? He seems to have changed were karaka's minions and evankhell would appear but I am not sure of how this came about.

I think Evan put a piece of Karaka into the warp ship’s sensitive bits and Karaka was able to use the ship to create a portal to his location. Seems like teleportation takes a lot of shinsoo power.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2018 ---

I almost wonder if Karaka pulled a Hachibi by hiding in a tentacle.

 

[Jammin]

So... can someone explain to me what it is that evan did? He seems to have changed were karaka's minions and evankhell would appear but I am not sure of how this came about.

As I understood it, he took a piece of Karaka's armor and threw it into the Zahard armies gate generator on one of their ships which connected Karaka's pocket dimension to the ship and blew it up by forming a massive dimensional gateway in the center of it and allowing everybody to gate over through that. So presumably that ship was dedicated to gating in reinforcements.

How he knew to do that is anybodies guess.

 

[Ripcord]

As I understood it, he took a piece of Karaka's armor and threw it into the Zahard armies gate generator on one of their ships which connected Karaka's pocket dimension to the ship and blew it up by forming a massive dimensional gateway in the center of it and allowing everybody to gate over through that. So presumably that ship was dedicated to gating in reinforcements.

How he knew to do that is anybodies guess.

I have two guesses as to how:

1. Hwaryun told him and Karaka to do this.

..... well that’s probably it.

 

[kkck]

I used to absolutely despise FUG. At the beginning of part 2 the way they were used and implemented was pretty rough. The whole "darkness" theme they had going was so very chunni. That said, starting at the hell train, and continuing on to where we are now, I think SIU has refined them a lot. And made them a much better story element than they once were.

The idea that the first floor guardian would objectively assist Evenkhell and Karaka is one of the most interesting things ever to happen with them. Which would explain a lot about how they have been able to play it so loosely with the towers rules and interfering with tests and allowing Rankers to mess with Regulars.

And meeting data Zahard and Gustang made me think that what was really going on with them infesting the lower floors of the tower was that they just didn't care enough to actually do anything.

That said, they are still the least interesting faction in the tower to me but I got to give SIU props for doing much better with them. This is arc is definitely their best moment to date but it doesn't really erase the more questionably written stuff earlier on.

People are generally far too dismissive of fug based on workshop events. Overall, the fug events we saw at the workshop battle are simply karaka's actions. A small faction of fug from a baby slayer who tried to bite more than he could chew. And that while against the wishes of the people who are actually in charge of fug. And people also ignore that it was fug that foiled karaka's plans as well. Not bam, not koon... It was the people who are actually in charge of fug who made sure to blindside karaka and ensure that bam would get the thorn regardless of what karaka did, hence it fusing with bam without karaka's faction noticing. That's a rather significant slap in the face from, presumably, luslec's faction to karaka. And of course then you have jinsung paying a visit to karaka to remind him of his place.

Of course, that doesn't mean karaka just stopped or anything, he is within fug a god after all but the implication here I would argue is fairly clear that karaka is simply not in charge, probably does not have THAT much influence within the organization as a whole outside of his own faction and his standing among the slayers and elders who are actually in charge has probably been severely diminished given his shenanigans.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2018 ---

I have two guesses as to how:

1. Hwaryun told him and Karaka to do this.

..... well that’s probably it.

Wouldn't evan be able to use his guide powers for this bit? Evan's guide powers seem to be useful for short term planning. I also doubt either guide would be able to do much with karaka though. Interesting, guide powers coming into play here would also mean they somehow worked in tandem with administrator shenanigans. I guess guide powers could to begin with come from administrators....

 

[Brian Taboada]

When Koon Aguero Agnis asked her how HR was present on the 29th Floor despite having failed the Floor of Test, Hwa Ryun replied that "I can go anywhere. I'm a Guide, after all",([URL='http://towerofgod.wikia.com/wiki/Vol.2_Ch.54:_29F_-_Bet_(3)']Vol.2 Ch.54: 29F - Bet (3))[/URL] implying that Guides can reach Floors without passing the tests normally necessary to do so. This is further confirmed by SIU stating that Hwa Ryun had technically failed on the Second Floor. Hwa Ryun and Yuto are the only Regular Guides (as in non-Rankers). (Vol.2 Ch.215: 39F - Hell Train: The 'Name Hunt' Station (18); Blog Post) Thanks Wiki

 

[Jammin]

People are generally far too dismissive of fug based on workshop events. Overall, the fug events we saw at the workshop battle are simply karaka's actions. A small faction of fug from a baby slayer who tried to bite more than he could chew. And that while against the wishes of the people who are actually in charge of fug. And people also ignore that it was fug that foiled karaka's plans as well. Not bam, not koon... It was the people who are actually in charge of fug who made sure to blindside karaka and ensure that bam would get the thorn regardless of what karaka did, hence it fusing with bam without karaka's faction noticing. That's a rather significant slap in the face from, presumably, luslec's faction to karaka. And of course then you have jinsung paying a visit to karaka to remind him of his place.

Of course, that doesn't mean karaka just stopped or anything, he is within fug a god after all but the implication here I would argue is fairly clear that karaka is simply not in charge, probably does not have THAT much influence within the organization as a whole outside of his own faction and his standing among the slayers and elders who are actually in charge has probably been severely diminished given his shenanigans.

I don't know. I used to think that. But given what we've learned in recent arcs isn't it more likely that the real power in the Zahard Empire, people like Zahard, just don't care? To him and Gustang they are the equivalent of bugs. Just bugs that aren't worth calling an exterminator for.

Karaka himself may represent a faction in FUG but how willing he is to make decisions on behalf of the whole organization regarding Baam always made them seem somewhat weak.

Which is part of the problem I had with them early on. They were all style and no substance. Like the antagonistic approach they took with Baam. The whole ridiculous Viole persona thing. Sort of announcing him on every floor. Tolerating all the infighting around the workshop battle. The way they only got by because it seemed like every test administrator "conveniently" worked for them (which stretched suspension of disbelief to the limit). On a very basic level they just seemed stupid to me. Something that SIU had to constantly write around.

It's different now though because all of that has been swept aside. They're role has been simplified. Not everything is a FUG conspiracy anymore and that makes them a lot easier for me to enjoy.