Discussion Tower of God Pairing Thread

[Orbs2op]

It's a bit Stockholm syndrom-y when you think about it.

Nah I don't think that what it is, bam still felt indifference or dislike for fug in general outside jinsung, jinsung didn't even want to teach bam at first and felt sorry for him, jinsung felt they had things in common and treated him special from the beginning, jinsung is very weak to bam in person and tough otherwise, it's not because he wants to use him, so it makes sense bam is very attached to him as much as his friends, he trained with jinsung and interact him mostly, plus he hates sacrifices and jinsung as his master/mentor/father figure did that in a blink.

That for shipping like him with andorsi she always liked him, and she is aggressive in her chase, she will fight for him so her chances are high, but if it not her then it has to be some new chick and bam know will instantly that she is the one, secretly wishing elaine atleast tries.

 

[toil]

I think what SIU is actually going for is that Baam was in search of a pseudo father type figure and latched onto Jinsung who similarly latched onto him. In practice though, yeah, it's a bit weird.

I think it's not even "in search of a father figure" as, basically, "everyone" just wanted to use Baam for some purpose. I have to put "everyone" in quotes because there's a few of exceptions—Rak and Khun, to name a couple—but IMHO Jinsung's supposed to be the first/only powerful authority figure who Baam sees as wanting Baam to be happy and live his life as Baam. I think SIU's dropped the ball on that and could spell it out a bit more/motivate it a bit more, but Baam's devotion isn't anything I find too hard to accept.

Back onto the pairing stuff though. I really do like what he's done with Androssi. Especially during the hidden floor arc. And I still love the potential of what Elaine could be if developed. Yihwa is always good too.

Returning to the topic, I think the bigger issue for me is what role romance is going to play in the story.

With an Androssi pairing, for example, I think the least-plausible direction for ToG to go would be for Baam and Androssi to, like, get together, climb together, and become the "power couple of power couples" (if you see what I mean). A confession/pairing/hookup followed by lengthy, involuntary separation just seems more like, you know, how SIU typically rolls...this is Tower of God, but it's also Tower of Hostages.

So what I'm saying is that this:

What I'm waiting for is Baam to show more of an emotional reliance on someone like that. I'm eager for him to get to that kind of place.

...just seems profoundly unlikely. What does feel likely is "I love you", "I know", followed by 100 years of solitude solitary confinement.

 

[Jammin]

I think it's not even "in search of a father figure" as, basically, "everyone" just wanted to use Baam for some purpose. I have to put "everyone" in quotes because there's a few of exceptions—Rak and Khun, to name a couple—but IMHO Jinsung's supposed to be the first/only powerful authority figure who Baam sees as wanting Baam to be happy and live his life as Baam. I think SIU's dropped the ball on that and could spell it out a bit more/motivate it a bit more, but Baam's devotion isn't anything I find too hard to accept.



Returning to the topic, I think the bigger issue for me is what role romance is going to play in the story.

With an Androssi pairing, for example, I think the least-plausible direction for ToG to go would be for Baam and Androssi to, like, get together, climb together, and become the "power couple of power couples" (if you see what I mean). A confession/pairing/hookup followed by lengthy, involuntary separation just seems more like, you know, how SIU typically rolls...this is Tower of God, but it's also Tower of Hostages.

So what I'm saying is that this:



...just seems profoundly unlikely. What does feel likely is "I love you", "I know", followed by 100 years of solitude solitary confinement.

Well your taking things about 16 steps to far there, IMO. If you expecting that much of course it looks unlikely.

It all starts with Baam looking at some girl and feeling something. That's how it starts. Any talk of like power couples or confessions or hookups. That's all further down the road than a simple moment where Baam looks at a girl he knows and is like "Oh.. wait. What's this feeling I'm having?". That's a moment that I think is very likely to happen. And, frankly, should happen as it's necessary emotional depth.

The reason Jinsung came up is that he sort of had that moment with him. A moment where he was like "Wait, this person isn't there and it makes me upset". Now that wasn't romantic obviously (and there are some headscratchy bits around that one, at least to me). But it's a similar kind of connective moment.

 

[toil]

It all starts with Baam looking at some girl and feeling something. That's how it starts.

Or SIU is just going to say that happened ages ago with Baam but—being Baam—he believed Androssi when she said she wasn’t allowed to date, didn’t want to get her in trouble, and so on. Nice guy, Baam is.

The sequence you want is more reasonable but not really how we’ve seen SIU handle the few pairings he’s actually shown us: the pattern seems to be starting one-sided with other party seemingly oblivious, followed by oblivious party acknowledging and reciprocated...followed by something tragic happening.

That’s applicable to Teddy/Goseng, Prince/Miseng, and Daniel/Roen. I think that’s we’ve seen for pairings shown in any detail, and what little we’ve seen is remarkably consistent.

 

[TheLastMartian]

Would be cool if someone close to Bam died (like AA) and then Bam becomes all badboy and has multiple girls and kills people without second thought.

But as it stands I agree with the above: Nice guy Bam ain't getting it in.

 

[Jammin]

Or SIU is just going to say that happened ages ago with Baam but—being Baam—he believed Androssi when she said she wasn’t allowed to date, didn’t want to get her in trouble, and so on. Nice guy, Baam is.

The sequence you want is more reasonable but not really how we’ve seen SIU handle the few pairings he’s actually shown us: the pattern seems to be starting one-sided with other party seemingly oblivious, followed by oblivious party acknowledging and reciprocated...followed by something tragic happening.

That’s applicable to Teddy/Goseng, Prince/Miseng, and Daniel/Roen. I think that’s we’ve seen for pairings shown in any detail, and what little we’ve seen is remarkably consistent.

The only one of those I think qualifies as a romance there would be Teddy and Goseng. Which I thought was good for what it was. That being a side pairing.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2019 ---

I mean he showed Teddy having feelings for her well in advance then had them get together at a dance during the workshop. Can't really expect more than that for side characters.

 

[Ripcord]

I think what SIU is actually going for is that Baam was in search of a pseudo father type figure and latched onto Jinsung who similarly latched onto him. In practice though, yeah, it's a bit weird.

Back onto the pairing stuff though. I really do like what he's done with Androssi. Especially during the hidden floor arc. And I still love the potential of what Elaine could be if developed. Yihwa is always good too.

What I'm waiting for is Baam to show more of an emotional reliance on someone like that. I'm eager for him to get to that kind of place.

Up until now Bam has tried to carry the weight himself (something Koon is also guilty of) ad he applies his feelings more generally or evenly to everyone.

IMO the best place so far SIU could have shown some feelings between Androssi and Bam would have been the Name Hunt Station. There was this chance for an emotional dynamic where Bam could have struggled to help his friend and himself, but instead what we see is Bam treat her like anyone else. If he made the choice to help her, it was off screen - even if his choice did help her in the end. SIU wanted it to be a surprise but with that he misses an opportunity.

 

[toil]

IMO the best place so far SIU could have shown some feelings between Androssi and Bam would have been the Name Hunt Station. There was this chance for an emotional dynamic where Bam could have struggled to help his friend and himself, but instead what we see is Bam treat her like anyone else. If he made the choice to help her, it was off screen - even if his choice did help her in the end. SIU wanted it to be a surprise but with that he misses an opportunity.

I feel like we got that back then, just in a very muted way—because, you know, it's Baam. I actually went back and checked, I'm thinking of the Baam and Khun scene at the end of this chapter. I mean it's not exactly an in-your-face confession, but it still reads to me as SIU having Baam talking about Baam-style feelings, such as they are.

 

[EternalWinter]

He got more upset about Dowon being locked up than he ever did about Androssi

 

[Jammin]

Well, to be fair to Baam he has never really had reason to be concerned about Androssi. Since the moment he met her, she's been the strong one. He's arguably taken that for granted.

Which a great emotional arc could be made out of. Like Ricord said, there was an opportunity and name hunt station but nothing really came of it.

I would say the more, "peculiar" treatment though has been Yihwa. She's somebody who does need his help. And he should know that. But yet when those rankers said they've been holding her prisoner for who knows how long and then joined his side. Baam never was seen mentioning that again. For someone who was another light romance candidate and at the very least a friend that's just plain bizarre.

Though it should probably be said that it's become kind of a pattern of behavior for Baam to take the people around him for granted to some extent. He should owe a lot in gratitude to people like Koon, Rak, Androssi, and everyone who has helped him along the way. But he's surprisingly blasé about them being in peril. Which is another reason the Jinsung stuff comes off pretty weird sometimes.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2019 ---

That's starting to feel like it almost has to be an intentional choice in whatever SIU is planning with Baam though so I wonder if we'll see that come to a head at some point.

Because it could be argued stuff like Baam running off to rescue Jinsung when Koon was near death after Rachel stabbed him and taken off to some weird healer someplace to get unfrozen and healed up was a selfish thing to do; he didn't go along like Rak did. He went off to train instead. That's an almost inhuman reaction in some ways.

So it could be this is all leading somewhere. We've seen enough to know that SIU understands character dynamics better than to do this sort of thing by accident, I think.

 

[Arjuna]

Bam is like a typical shounen hero, oblivious to love.

But there again i feel SIU might develop romance in future, let's see how he goes there.

 

[King Dryst]

Bam is like a typical shounen hero, oblivious to love.

He's not oblivious. He just isn't interested and has more important concerns.

 

[Arjuna]

He's not oblivious. He just isn't interested and has more important concerns.

He was even confused about what a Date is...

 

[King Dryst]

He was even confused about what a Date is...

My recollection is that he was more of the 'why would you want to do something like that with someone like me?' confused rather than not knowing what a date was.

 

[Ripcord]

Well, to be fair to Baam he has never really had reason to be concerned about Androssi. Since the moment he met her, she's been the strong one. He's arguably taken that for granted.

Which a great emotional arc could be made out of. Like Ricord said, there was an opportunity and name hunt station but nothing really came of it.

I would say the more, "peculiar" treatment though has been Yihwa. She's somebody who does need his help. And he should know that. But yet when those rankers said they've been holding her prisoner for who knows how long and then joined his side. Baam never was seen mentioning that again. For someone who was another light romance candidate and at the very least a friend that's just plain bizarre.

Though I should probably be said that it's become kind of a pattern of behavior for Baam to take the people around him for granted to some extent. He should owe a lot in gratitude to people like Koon, Rak, Androssi, and everyone who has helped him along the way. But he's surprisingly blasé about them being in peril. Which is another reason the Jinsung stuff comes off pretty weird sometimes.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2019 ---

That's starting to feel like it almost has to be an intentional choice in whatever SIU is planning with Baam though so I wonder if we'll see that come to a head at some point.

Because it could be argued stuff like Baam running off to rescue Jinsung when Koon was near death after Rachel stabbed him and taken off to some weird healer someplace to get unfrozen and healed up; he didn't go along like Rak did. He went off to train instead. That's an almost inhuman reaction in some ways.

So it could be this is all leading somewhere. We've seen enough to know that SIU understands character dynamics better than to do this sort of thing by accident, I think.

Yes. I have wondered if SIU is sending Bam down a path similar to Zahard. Up until the end of S2, Bam has made his choices differently than Zahard, almost idealistically. (“I will save everyone no matter what, Dattebayo!!!”)

I’m not saying Bam will go bad but he definitely can make some poor choices when trying to rescue Jinsung. He definitely seems to take it for granted that he says “we need to do this!” And Koon throws on his jacket before Bam even gets the words out.

 

[toil]

My recollection is that he was more of the 'why would you want to do something like that with someone like me?' confused rather than not knowing what a date was.

I agree that this is the correct interpretation, but that's just my interpretation and it's not like any of this is provable right now.

Now that I'm thinking of it, though, I'm wondering if Androssi really did tell him or not. At the moment the date came across in S1 like Androssi inventing it on the spot—cracking up, perhaps—and Baam’s confusion suggests she did make it up...but I honestly wouldn’t put it past SIU to show us a flashback someday revealing that she really did say something (and he either didn’t get it or just forgot).

Yes. I have wondered if SIU is sending Bam down a path similar to Zahard. Up until the end of S2, Bam has made his choices differently than Zahard, almost idealistically. (“I will save everyone no matter what, Dattebayo!!!”)

I would like it if SIU did, but am getting more and more wary of reading too much into SIU’s writing for stuff like this. In pretty much every blog post where he describes changing his mind, he’s always saying “I decided not to do X now because it would give away too much”. I wonder how much of what makes Baam come across this way at times is just a byproduct of SIU delaying, deferring, and postponing.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

That's what I meant. Blossom will try to make a couple out of Enne and Baam and offer her alliance and the power of her house in the war to come

Pushing that EnneXBaam ship pretty hard, Mr. Tugboat-san.

I keep telling you, his balls will have to drop first.

 

[cash2088]

That's what I meant. Blossom will try to make a couple out of Enne and Baam and offer her alliance and the power of her house in the war to come

Why you like blossom’s Enne so hard???
YURI
IS
WiFE

Baam doesn’t need an OP girlfriend, he wanted Rachel for god’s sake.....

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Who’s gonna look after her kids? The great CPS? Zahard? Was she actually a Lo Po?

Her baby daddy? (babies daddies?)

She was a 1%'er! So the statist corporate welfare system of course! Kiss those Zahard boots for dollars! Don't you know that rankers can sit back and relax as the elite class they are!

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

Why you like blossom’s Enne so hard???
YURI
IS
WiFE

Baam doesn’t need an OP girlfriend, he wanted Rachel for god’s sake.....

Rachel was like a mom to him. Think about that.

 

[cash2088]

She was a 1%'er! So the statist corporate welfare system of course! Kiss those Zahard boots for dollars! Don't you know that rankers can sit back and relax as the elite class they are!

Wait so why did she want a “better life”???

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

She was a 1%'er! So the statist corporate welfare system of course! Kiss those Zahard boots for dollars! Don't you know that rankers can sit back and relax as the elite class they are!

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

Rachel was like a mom to him. Think about that.

Gross