Shounen Undead Unluck

[Hermit]

I think a really strong stroke of unluck shouldn't benefit Andy in convinient ways in every fight.

To be sure, what other fights might you be referring to here?
The only time I remember him using Unluck in a fight was vs Gina. There was the Victor stuff as well, but he was more an antagonist. The Unluck worked against him there (Meteor shower and all)
Or you were speaking in regards to the Burn stuff?

 

[Nie Li]

To be sure, what other fights might you be referring to here?
The only time I remember him using Unluck in a fight was vs Gina. There was the Victor stuff as well, but he was more an antagonist. The Unluck worked against him there (Meteor shower and all)
Or you were speaking in regards to the Burn stuff?

Against Victor, the unluck indeed worked as it should.

Lemme think.

- There's the fight with Gina.
- There's the time unluck triggered an underwater volcano that conviniently threw Andy flying precisely on top of an enemy jet that he then hijacked.
- There's the current time they have frozen Burn.
- There's the fight with Unrepair. Andy was so "unlucky" that a meteor fell from the sky just like he planned. The meteor didn't hit Unrepair but, as the narrator says, it was Andy's plan all along for the meteorite to send him flying 100 meters away while at the same time creating a water screen that kept him out of Latla's sight, which conviniently allowed him to bypass her power and sniper Unrepair with his finger.

The way I see it, Izumo's power is making him "very lucky" rather than unlucky. Otherwise the unluck would have caused something random and unexpected to mess up his plan against Unrepair and would not have conviniently frozen Burn. Instead, what the power is consistent at is just at attracting danger that should me mortal.


I don't want to sound like a hater because of my opinion on Izumo's power, so let me be clear that I'm enjoying the manga so far.

 

[Hermit]

I don't want to sound like a hater because of my opinion on Izumo's power, so let me be clear that I'm enjoying the manga so far.

That's quite alright Hey, I usually believe criticisms help us appreciate the things we love better Which would be manga in this case.

The way I see it, Izumo's power is making him "very lucky" rather than unlucky. Otherwise the unluck would have caused something random and unexpected to mess up his plan against Unrepair and would not have conviniently frozen Burn. Instead, what the power is consistent at is just at attracting danger that should me mortal.

How I saw it, Andy is the one who usually makes the best out of an unlucky situation? Basically, Unluck does indeed hit him, but he usually just capitalizes on the situation.
For example:

- There's the time unluck triggered an underwater volcano that conviniently threw Andy flying precisely on top of an enemy jet that he then hijacked.

^The eruption did hit him. It just sent him flying skywards, so he was able to hijack an enemy airplane. He does indeed take damage.

- There's the fight with Unrepair. Andy was so "unlucky" that a meteor fell from the sky just like he planned. The meteor didn't hit Unrepair but, as the narrator says, it was Andy's plan all along for the meteorite to send him flying 100 meters away while at the same time creating a water screen that kept him out of Latla's sight, which conviniently allowed him to bypass her power and sniper Unrepair with his finger.

This one falls more under Unluck's consistency. Which you mentioned earlier when you talked about being consistent when attracting danger. Before the fight with Rip, Fuuko had kissed Andy twice. And both times meteors did drop to the ground.

Though:

- There's the current time they have frozen Burn.

I have to admit, this is a bit inconsistent with the above explanation I'll just file it under there being several sources of unluck in the Union headquarters (Like the lava in the walls)

And more to this:
-When Andy gave Fuuko a hair cut in the first chapter, a meteor destroyed the building they were in. Which is what Andy used to finish the fight.

I actually thought in its own way, he was trying to show Fuuko that her Unluck isn't as bad as she makes it out to be. Considering how it has assisted him several times so far.
To her, what is 'Unluck' is actually 'Luck' to Andy. He's just the one who makes it work out that way for him. Making lemons out of lemonade, kind of?

 

[James Rye]

Her unluck has indeed always worked like this.

My comment about her power wasn't intended to be only about this last chapter but a general criticism. What just happened to Burn is just the latest example. It's something that I've been thinking since the fight with Gina. It's the first time I'm posting on this thread so I wanted to let what I think of Unluck out of my chest.

This might just be my opinion, but for the same reason that Izumo's "quirk" might be able to kill even god, I think a really strong stroke of unluck shouldn't benefit Andy in convinient ways in every fight. Burn getting frozen is the most conviniently lucky thing that could have happened to Andy, even if he himself has been frozen.

Lol, the funny part about this is that normally no one would benefit from being crushed by a meteorite or getting zapped by lighting or getting burned to a crisp by Lava or frozen solid due the powers of the Giant UMA Freeze-Storage Cooling devices. Basically you have to imagine Fuuko's "Unluck" like a little murder gnome who hurts people according to the amount of feelings Izumo holds for those people she touched. If they are nobodies, the gnome goes "pfff" and basically just kicks them in the shin, not worth his time.
However when it is somebody she cares deeply about, the murder gnome goes all out without regards for casualties and kills the touched beloved in the easiest way available as shown with the first people Izumo killed, her own parents and every poor soul who happened to be with them on that exploding plane. That is why Andy's plan of using Fuuko's Unluck with the water vulcano worked as it was the closest thing the murder gnome could use to go after Andy's life.

And here is exactly the Murder Gnome's problem: He cannot take Andy's life no matter how hard he tries. That is because of Andy's Undead working so well with Fuuko's Unluck. Now this Murder Gnome is a stubborn little fella so he doesn't give up but ofc when Andy's main body, which in his Andy form is centered around his head, is out of reach for him with normal means, say Lava because he is inside a body which just absorbs Lava, then the Murder Gnome will take the next best thing to get to Andy to kill him. Which is why Andy was aking Juiz how the "source prep" was going as Izumo's Unluck needs a source to pull death from towards Andy once he got touched by Izumo. This is why Mico was so sure that this plan of theirs would work ("We'v got our girl Fuuko's Unluck on our side!!") as Izumo's Unluck had no other way of reaching Andy except for zapping Burn to stop him, freezing the UMA body he was in and then smashing it with the Pile Cannon to reach Andy and kill him.

Though ofc Andy just revives after receiving the Unluck and the Murder Gnome goes "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*** YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" until next time Izumo touches Andy whenever it is by accident or by will.

Basically Andy is a random mine if activated by Izumo's power and Izumo's power will always pull from the nearest source available to achieve its goal in killing the touched one and always showing results for it without actually having any real success in killing Andy for good. XD

 

[Hermit]

It's a bit how he fights using Parts Bullet. He can basically regenerate limbs that he loses, or cuts off himself, so he designed a fighting style around that. Andy is basically someone who maximises use of every resource he has at his disposal. Even if its other Negator's abilities (The zombies in the Spoil arc, for instance)

 

[Nie Li]

That's quite alright Hey, I usually believe criticisms help us appreciate the things we love better Which would be manga in this case.


How I saw it, Andy is the one who usually makes the best out of an unlucky situation? Basically, Unluck does indeed hit him, but he usually just capitalizes on the situation.
For example:


^The eruption did hit him. It just sent him flying skywards, so he was able to hijack an enemy airplane. He does indeed take damage.


This one falls more under Unluck's consistency. Which you mentioned earlier when you talked about being consistent when attracting danger. Before the fight with Rip, Fuuko had kissed Andy twice. And both times meteors did drop to the ground.

Though:


I have to admit, this is a bit inconsistent with the above explanation I'll just file it under there being several sources of unluck in the Union headquarters (Like the lava in the walls)

And more to this:
-When Andy gave Fuuko a hair cut in the first chapter, a meteor destroyed the building they were in. Which is what Andy used to finish the fight.

I actually thought in its own way, he was trying to show Fuuko that her Unluck isn't as bad as she makes it out to be. Considering how it has assisted him several times so far.
To her, what is 'Unluck' is actually 'Luck' to Andy. He's just the one who makes it work out that way for him. Making lemons out of lemonade, kind of?

Lol, the funny part about this is that normally no one would benefit from being crushed by a meteorite or getting zapped by lighting or getting burned to a crisp by Lava or frozen solid due the powers of the Giant UMA Freeze-Storage Cooling devices. Basically you have to imagine Fuuko's "Unluck" like a little murder gnome who hurts people according to the amount of feelings Izumo holds for those people she touched. If they are nobodies, the gnome goes "pfff" and basically just kicks them in the shin, not worth his time.
However when it is somebody she cares deeply about, the murder gnome goes all out without regards for casualties and kills the touched beloved in the easiest way available as shown with the first people Izumo killed, her own parents and every poor soul who happened to be with them on that exploding plane. That is why Andy's plan of using Fuuko's Unluck with the water vulcano worked as it was the closest thing the murder gnome could use to go after Andy's life.

And here is exactly the Murder Gnome's problem: He cannot take Andy's life no matter how hard he tries. That is because of Andy's Undead working so well with Fuuko's Unluck. Now this Murder Gnome is a stubborn little fella so he doesn't give up but ofc when Andy's main body, which in his Andy form is centered around his head, is out of reach for him with normal means, say Lava because he is inside a body which just absorbs Lava, then the Murder Gnome will take the next best thing to get to Andy to kill him. Which is why Andy was aking Juiz how the "source prep" was going as Izumo's Unluck needs a source to pull death from towards Andy once he got touched by Izumo. This is why Mico was so sure that this plan of theirs would work ("We'v got our girl Fuuko's Unluck on our side!!") as Izumo's Unluck had no other way of reaching Andy except for zapping Burn to stop him, freezing the UMA body he was in and then smashing it with the Pile Cannon to reach Andy and kill him.

Though ofc Andy just revives after receiving the Unluck and the Murder Gnome goes "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*** YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!" until next time Izumo touches Andy whenever it is by accident or by will.

Basically Andy is a random mine if activated by Izumo's power and Izumo's power will always pull from the nearest source available to achieve its goal in killing the touched one and always showing results for it without actually having any real success in killing Andy for good. XD

I'll try to explain well why I still think that "Unluck" isn't working as intended.

If "Unluck" is literally just a like a "Murder Gnome", whose actions don't change at all when affecting an immortal, then it's a power that's more about attracting random deadly things rather than literally taking luck away from the target.

I get that Andy's also damaged by the unluck strokes, but the way they help him is just... not really because Andy always reacts smartly to the stroke but because the stroke in itself is just convenient (and convenient is another word for lucky in this context).

- In the case of the underwater volcano eruption, it's true that he knew the volcano was there and that's why he made a plan and bet on it. The plan working perfectly because of the unluck being exactly what he expected it to be seems rather lucky. It would be unlucky for his bet to fail and another meteorite to fall on him. Not only was he lucky enough that his bet was spot-on and the underwater volcano sent him flying. It sent him flying in the perfect direction towards the jet. And not only in the perfect direction, but with the perfect strength, since he didn't crash into it or fell too sort: it gave him the perfect push to safely land on it. That goes beyond Andy's control.

- About the stroke of luck against Unrepair: a meteorite sent him flying out of Unmove's sight and also blocked Latla's sight and her powers, giving him the seemingly only opportunity to win in time to save Izumo's life (without letting Victor out of course). That is very lucky, since many other "unlucks" would not have given him that golden opportunity. Just "a gust of wind making him miss his finger bullet" would have been unluckier to him than the meteorite.

- The stroke of unluck just now was the electricity only or also being frozen? Because if being frozen is part of the stroke, it was conviniently the strongest counter possible to Burn. Just burning inside the living embodiment of fire (Burn) and his strategy failing would have been much more unlucky to Andy than what happened. Back at the jet example, there being an underwater volcano succesfully turned into that being part of the unluck stroke, just as planed. Right now we know that the place they're at is also some sort of volcano or at least surrounded by lava, since "smaller strokes of unluck" in the HQ drowned his room in lava. A real stroke of huge unluck right now should then have been a volcano-like eruption that could have caused the dead of Andy's companions and not at all damaged UMA Burn. Andy would have also been hurt by that, but instead, the unluck had very controlled range and was the perfect counter for his enemy. That's lucky.

It's true that "for any person without regeneration, he would have died every single time, and that's unlucky", but since Andy's immortal, he's not really being unlucky, in the sense that "unluck" is attracting things to him that not only do not kill him but also give him a succesful victory and complete his strategies. I feel that the strokes of unluck should be different to him than they are to normal people, or at least, I feel like they should be more random and sometimes I would like one of his plans that fully depend on Unluck to fail because the stroke wasn't convenient.

 

[James Rye]

Maybe that's what's gonna happen in the future, Andy and Izumo plan something but the other side already anticipated them using "Unluck" to their advantage to let the opponents suffer for it so they prepared a different source for the Unluck to pull from which Andy and Izumo had not been aware of but obviously the Unluck power could care less about that.

In any case I think we shouldn't take the "Un"-powers literally.
Like Andy's "Undead" would work perfectly fine by just getting chopped to bits and not dying, regeneration powers seems unneeded for just not dying. Same with Izumo's Unluck which just hurts people with accidents, it could just make it that someone wins in the lottery, gets touched by Izumo and loses his ticket forever, instead he probably loses his head. Or Juiz's Unjustice, just because your values are turned around doesn't mean you will kill the one you usually protect, you could just abandoned them.
But thing is Andy with no regeneration would be a huuuuuuuge mess to write a story and battles around. Izumo without her Unluck being deadly would have a harder time to have a presence in battle and at Andy's side if most of her Unluck results in "usual everyday Unluck" like getting ketchup on your shirt. And if Juiz's Unjustice doesn't turn people into suicidal murderhobbos then the Acks would have subjugated Earth and killed off most of humanity.

In other words, this is just "rule of cool" like in nearly all manga series where you got many things that make no sense (MHA sending in children as child soldiers into deadly situations, POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WINS EVERYTIME!!!, hardly anybody noticing that Saitama is the real OPM, talking long lengths in battle while everyone around them fights to the death in screams and loud noise and nooooooobody attacks the two chatterboxes and so on and so on). In UU, the Un-powers need to be a bit more "up" there to have them be relevant for interesting battles and combinations of different Un and UMA powers.

Like you said, not a big deal in the end.

 

[Nie Li]

Maybe that's what's gonna happen in the future, Andy and Izumo plan something but the other side already anticipated them using "Unluck" to their advantage to let the opponents suffer for it so they prepared a different source for the Unluck to pull from which Andy and Izumo had not been aware of but obviously the Unluck power could care less about that.

In any case I think we shouldn't take the "Un"-powers literally.
Like Andy's "Undead" would work perfectly fine by just getting chopped to bits and not dying, regeneration powers seems unneeded for just not dying. Same with Izumo's Unluck which just hurts people with accidents, it could just make it that someone wins in the lottery, gets touched by Izumo and loses his ticket forever, instead he probably loses his head. Or Juiz's Unjustice, just because your values are turned around doesn't mean you will kill the one you usually protect, you could just abandoned them.
But thing is Andy with no regeneration would be a huuuuuuuge mess to write a story and battles around. Izumo without her Unluck being deadly would have a harder time to have a presence in battle and at Andy's side if most of her Unluck results in "usual everyday Unluck" like getting ketchup on your shirt. And if Juiz's Unjustice doesn't turn people into suicidal murderhobbos then the Acks would have subjugated Earth and killed off most of humanity.

In other words, this is just "rule of cool" like in nearly all manga series where you got many things that make no sense (MHA sending in children as child soldiers into deadly situations, POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WINS EVERYTIME!!!, hardly anybody noticing that Saitama is the real OPM, talking long lengths in battle while everyone around them fights to the death in screams and loud noise and nooooooobody attacks the two chatterboxes and so on and so on). In UU, the Un-powers need to be a bit more "up" there to have them be relevant for interesting battles and combinations of different Un and UMA powers.

Like you said, not a big deal in the end.

Your point about the Un- powers is a good one. Especially Undead.

The manga is indeed consistent on how every skill works. Only Unluck has "bugged me" a bit so far, but it's true that the workings of the skill was consistent. They are just, as you say, not "literal".

I think Izumo could still be relevant in battle if her power worked differently (for example, she could be trained to be stronger in battle, even if only enough to physically touch an enemy in a fight without being beaten, causing the unluck directly on them), but it seems like this is really is just a case of my expectations of how Unluck should have worked simply not matching what the author went for.

 

[Hermit]

1. I liked Billy reveal and how Aizen-like he's trying to be, although I liked more his design as a a blind gunman.

Somehow, I did not expect this from you
The twist still feels very rushed to me. I feel like the story would have benefited more if we spent more time with the Union members before the big reveal? Imagine even the theory crafting, saying why X member is the spy, and Y isn't etc etc.
It's the first time I have not agreed with something in the story tbh.

 

[James Rye]

Honestly, a more accurate description of Izumo's power would be "Unlucky with deadly outcome" and Andy "Undead plus regen plus cool burst regen movement and regen shooting ability plusplusplusplus" even Unrepair goes further than just not letting a wound heal on its own and denies the very WILL of his targets to stop a wound from bleeding! "Unluck", "Undead", "Unrepair", "Unchange" (another power were you are like "okok, you can "change" air into solid form but WHY can you control its movement like giant hands or an impossible to penetrate protection shield?) are just short description of the very basic they do, all the extra stuff that makes it seem "weird" or "unfitting" comes due the Owners using their powers in creative ways like Gina using her solid air as tentaclearms or Andy using his regen powers to blast off with his cut off legs or too focus all his regen power in one finger to create a special bullet finger or Izumo using Andy as unluck grenade to be thrown at her opponents.

But that is why I like it when those fights are all about those loopholes like Andy being able to kill Rip because he didn't aimed at him but Chikara and Rip was just in the bullet's way or Shen not telling Victhor that his power works as long as he sees his target thus rendering Victhor unable to escape from the meteor shower hitting him and so many more situations I am too tired to list up.

As long as Tozuka stays confirmed to his Un-powers working the way they work, I'm content with it even if some unexpected stuff gets me like "Whhhhhaaaaat dude?". XD

 

[Nie Li]

Somehow, I did not expect this from you

I take this as a compliment.

The twist still feels very rushed to me. I feel like the story would have benefited more if we spent more time with the Union members before the big reveal? Imagine even the theory crafting, saying why X member is the spy, and Y isn't etc etc.
It's the first time I have not agreed with something in the story tbh.

I'll expand on my opinion on this topic.

I agree with you that it felt rushed, mostly because Billy hadn't even accompanied Andy and Izumo on a single mission. We had seen a little of his "fake" ability but we didn't even know its name or what it was supposed to be other than just ricocheting bullets. We got the explanation and name of his "fake" skill after he was revealed as a villain, and that's rushed, but also mirrors Aizen's villain reveal on Bleach (we had no info on his zanpakuto and it was only after he was revealed to be a villain that we were explained both what he faked his shikai to be and what it really was).

However, while the time we spent with Billy and with the Union in general was just too short and thus fell short on its emotional impact, I feel like this reveal couldn't have waited much longer. The way I see it, Izumo and Andy joined the group just too late into the party. The plot pushed itself between a rock and a hard place when it was revealed how close they are to the penalty that would cause the end of the world.

We only got to see one batch of missions before this one and, even when they had just received the missions, they already assumed that they would be unable to complete them all and they were sure they would receive a punishment, so it's clear to me that they lacked the manpower as a group to delay ragnarok for long.

I think we could have gotten at most one more mission and reward before this reveal, and just have Union manage to avoid that one penalty before this happened. I think that would have been better, and even more so if it would have allowed us to get to know Billy and Isshiki (was that his name?) a bit better, but I'll trust that the author has a greater plan in mind.

 

[James Rye]

Btw, I expect Izumo to become like Shen in the future in the next world aka she can use martial arts to touch others and she can "like" even her enemies enough to cause them heavy Unluck, if not deadly then at least injury causing type. And ofc she will have her artifact gun with her for range fights as well.

 

[Nie Li]

Btw, I expect Izumo to become like Shen in the future in the next world aka she can use martial arts to touch others and she can "like" even her enemies enough to cause them heavy Unluck, if not deadly then at least injury causing type. And ofc she will have her artifact gun with her for range fights as well.

I'd love that to happen.

Even if the unluck was limited because she just momentarely touches her targets and has no feelings towards them, just having them sprain a leg through Unluck would be enough to turn a fistfight around. And of course if she manages to actually grab them it's an instant win.

Do we have any information on what her gun can do?

 

[Demonspeed]

I see her as a long range fighter. She shoots with her gun, and Andy has Kurikara to fight at close range. Although he can also attack at long range with Part Bullets etc.

 

[Hermit]

I take this as a compliment.

Haha, it was. Your posts are very well thought out, makes for very fascinating discussions

I agree with you that it felt rushed, mostly because Billy hadn't even accompanied Andy and Izumo on a single mission. We had seen a little of his "fake" ability but we didn't even know its name or what it was supposed to be other than just ricocheting bullets. We got the explanation and name of his "fake" skill after he was revealed as a villain, and that's rushed, but also mirrors Aizen's villain reveal on Bleach (we had no info on his zanpakuto and it was only after he was revealed to be a villain that we were explained both what he faked his shikai to be and what it really was).

Also, Tatiana with the Hinamori-esque reaction.
Did not even realize it was that similar to Aizen's situation.

However, while the time we spent with Billy and with the Union in general was just too short and thus felt short on its emotional impact, I feel like this reveal couldn't have waited much longer. The way I see it, Izumo and Andy joined the group just too late into the party. The plot pushed itself between a rock and a hard place when it was revealed how close they are to the penalty that would cause the end of the world.

Weirdly enough, this is true.
It also serves as a double edged sword. In series like these, you expect that Andy and Fuuko would remain the chased all throughout the story, while constantly looking for ways to die/lose their powers. Having them join Union was something I did not expect at all.
Also the bad side is that yes, the Ragnarok is too soon. I think something I would have liked see worked into the story is there is a way to undo penalties. Not just the taking down god thing, basically complete X number of missions and you will have some of those 101 penalties reduced. It feels like it would just work in a series like this, imo

I think we could have gotten at most one more mission and reward before this reveal, and just have Union manage to avoid that one penalty before this happened. I think that would have been better, and even more so if it would have allowed us to get to know Billy and Isshiki (was that his name?) a bit better, but I'll trust that the author has a greater plan in mind.

*Isshin, Unbreakable
Also, more than the mission, I feel like there should have been greater foreshadowing of the traitor reveal, other than just.....Andy having a bad feeling. And not saying anything to anyone. It felt like it lacked a punch.
Im enjoying the current fight a lot, but I feel like Billy will turn another leaf later. Which makes this whole fight kinda moot in the long run

 

[Nie Li]

Haha, it was. Your posts are very well thought out, makes for very fascinating discussions


Also, Tatiana with the Hinamori-esque reaction.
Did not even realize it was that similar to Aizen's situation.


Weirdly enough, this is true.
It also serves as a double edged sword. In series like these, you expect that Andy and Fuuko would remain the chased all throughout the story, while constantly looking for ways to die/lose their powers. Having them join Union was something I did not expect at all.

I also did not expect this would happen. Accepting the offer was smart of them, but Shen offering in the first place to tell them where one of his companions would be so they can kill her and join them was very surprising and unusual for this kind of manga. Not following the usual patterns right off the bat is a great sign for a new manga.

Also the bad side is that yes, the Ragnarok is too soon. I think something I would have liked see worked into the story is there is a way to undo penalties. Not just the taking down god thing, basically complete X number of missions and you will have some of those 101 penalties reduced. It feels like it would just work in a series like this, imo

The penalties themselves should be undoable (now that I write "undoable" I feel like there will be some Undo negator in the future) since they're UMAs and UMAs can be found and killed, but the countdown itself until ragnarok seems to not be undoable. Technically there's still room for a way to do so to be introduced, but with this whole Under affair and how suddenly anyone can join the current missions and all that it feels like we're already at the "endgame".

I don't think the series will end soon, of course, since it's young and seems to be popular, and the way Unrepair talks about "what comes after killing God" makes me feel that "God" will be killed much sooner than we expect, and that we're just still on some kind of long prologue before the real structure of the series starts. Of course, I might be entirely wrong about the future of the manga but this is the feeling I get.

*Isshin, Unbreakable
Also, more than the mission, I feel like there should have been greater foreshadowing of the traitor reveal, other than just.....Andy having a bad feeling. And not saying anything to anyone. It felt like it lacked a punch.
Im enjoying the current fight a lot, but I feel like Billy will turn another leaf later. Which makes this whole fight kinda moot in the long run

It can certainly be seen that the lack of mindgames to try and deduce who the traitor was is a wasted opportunity. What I lament is the lack of emotional impact. Of course, a traitor always has a certain impact and through Tatiana we can somehow feel how this has turned her world upside down, but if we had seen at least one mission with Billy, not only there would have been time to foreshadow there being a traitor, we would have also learnt more about Billy's fake persona. We would have grown to trust him and empathize with him, and the emotional impact from his betrayal would have been both more hurtful and unexpected.

Whether or not there being a traitor should have been foreshadowed better is debatable.

On one hand, better foreshadowing means better mind games and perhaps fake clues on his identity. Going by Bleach's comparisons, it would be like when Ichimaru was believed to be a traitor and all suspicions were of course off Aizen (he was "dead" and all that), only to turn out that there were actually three traitors and Aizen was the mastermind.

On the other hand, having zero foreshadowing of there being a traitor but having more time to get to know all of the Union's members, Billy especially included, would have made us reader grow to trust them unconditionally. Having no suspicions of Billy while growing to know him better means we would have opened our "hearts" fully to him, and that just means getting a bigger and more devastating traitor reveal.

 

[Admiral Teach]

A couple of things to say about what's going on now.

1. I liked Billy reveal and how Aizen-like he's trying to be, although I liked more his design as a a blind gunman.

2. I wonder why Billy used Unjustice on Izumo but not on Andy. Or is it that it didn't work as intended on Andy?


On a separate note, this "Unluck" power has been feeling weird to me for a while. It's supposed to make the person it touches unlucky, and I get that our Undead MC is... well, undead, and thus can survive catastrophes, but the way that they win most of their fights through Andy's "unluckiness" feels, in turn, very lucky. It would be much more unlucky for Andy that something random made his battle strategies fail, rather than a big meteorite falling down on him and granting him victory.

I also noted how there have been two gag times that when unluck was triggered on him on the Union's base, lava flowed to him from the walls, but this one time that lava flowing in would have probably powered up his enemy (I'm just guessing since it's Burn and all that), it instead triggered electricity.

That's because Fuuko is probably just in the early stages of developing some degree of "skill" with her power. Notice please that I say skill, not "control over", which seems impossible for her by the nature of the Un-abilities.

But just wait. When she really, really starts falling in love with Andy, or when her power develops to start affecting causality, Andy's gonna have Wile E Coyote syndrome... and it will probably be in a very, very unfunny moment.

I haven't read the chapter yet, but here are some thoughts:

It seems to me that what we are seeing is actually not the "mid series Aizen twist" that it's evoking, but in fact the BEGINNING of the main setup. We have the Union, the deadly situation of Ragnarok looming, and now the villains, Under, and four elemental forces of nature running amok.

What will likely happen now is the first major saga of the story. Then maybe the big twist of Ragnarok beginning. I'm very sure Andy is in fact a survivor of the previous universe. "Remember" will probably activate his or someone's memory of the events that transpire once Ragnarok is invoked. It could well be something far different from what we are being told.

And frankly, I just don't buy the idea that God is the one causing all these problems. It doesn't quite make sense. Maybe we are in for another big reveal that this is a universe where things went very, very wrong... from the beginning.

Otherwise, this series is amazingly well drawn and put together. Hopefully it grows in popularity. It'd be a perfect fit for the top 3 position now that Kimetsu no Yaiba is no longer with us. *cries and sneezes*

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

On the other hand, having zero foreshadowing of there being a traitor but having more time to get to know all of the Union's members, Billy especially included, would have made us reader grow to trust them unconditionally. Having no suspicions of Billy while growing to know him better means we would have opened our "hearts" fully to him, and that just means getting a bigger and more devastating traitor reveal.

If they did that, I think most of the casual readers will guess that the traitor is Nico. He is grumpy, always whines about something, and probably just betrays his team for science.

 

[Hermit]

Accepting the offer was smart of them, but Shen offering in the first place to tell them where one of his companions would be so they can kill her and join them was very surprising and unusual for this kind of manga. Not following the usual patterns right off the bat is a great sign for a new manga.

They also reduced on Andy's perverted antics from the first chapter. In the long run, that would have hurt the series (I know some people who said they dropped the series after the first chapter). So Andy has become more and more likeable as the series has gone on (Like what he did for that zombie teacher). I liked Fuuko from the beginning though. She's a very engaging main character.

I don't think the series will end soon, of course, since it's young and seems to be popular, and the way Unrepair talks about "what comes after killing God" makes me feel that "God" will be killed much sooner than we expect, and that we're just still on some kind of long prologue before the real structure of the series starts. Of course, I might be entirely wrong about the future of the manga but this is the feeling I get.

This would be fantastic. I feel like this series can be long running with the proper pacing and writing decisions. We literally have UMAs based on seasons And even before, Spoil mentioned that people never used to decay. Artifacts, and even Victor's backstory with Juiz. Just has all the makings for something epic.

It can certainly be seen that the lack of mindgames to try and deduce who the traitor was is a wasted opportunity. What I lament is the lack of emotional impact. Of course, a traitor always has a certain impact and through Tatiana we can somehow feel how this has turned her world upside down, but if we had seen at least one mission with Billy, not only there would have been time to foreshadow there being a traitor, we would have also learnt more about Billy's fake persona. We would have grown to trust him and empathize with him, and the emotional impact from his betrayal would have been both more hurtful and unexpected.

Come to think of it, all Billy had done before the traitor reveal was have two comedic panels (When the aliens appeared). So that is probably true.

On the other hand, having zero foreshadowing of there being a traitor but having more time to get to know all of the Union's members, Billy especially included, would have made us reader grow to trust them unconditionally. Having no suspicions of Billy while growing to know him better means we would have opened our "hearts" fully to him, and that just means getting a bigger and more devastating traitor reveal.

Pretty much this

If they did that, I think most of the casual readers will guess that the traitor is Nico. He is grumpy, always whines about something, and probably just betrays his team for science.

Really? I think it would have been harder to predict than that, lol. I'd have my guesses on Phil as the traitor (Artifact boy)

 

[Nie Li]

They also reduced on Andy's perverted antics from the first chapter. In the long run, that would have hurt the series (I know some people who said they dropped the series after the first chapter). So Andy has become more and more likeable as the series has gone on (Like what he did for that zombie teacher). I liked Fuuko from the beginning though. She's a very engaging main character.

That's true. Changing his antics was kind of justified by Fuuko telling him she would hate him if he kept sexually harassing her. He was more aggressive than Meliodas with Eli on NnT. To tell the truth it didn't bother me that much how he was in the first chapter but I'm okay with that changing.

I do like that their romance is very... "fast", and that activating Unluck gives them an excuse to be a bit intimate. I dislike when mangas like Fairy Tail drag future romances forever (Gray x Juvia) without any kind of on-screen progress.

This would be fantastic. I feel like this series can be long running with the proper pacing and writing decisions. We literally have UMAs based on seasons And even before, Spoil mentioned that people never used to decay. Artifacts, and even Victor's backstory with Juiz. Just has all the makings for something epic.

It will depend on the writer. I honestly don't have any idea of what God will turn out to be exactly nor on what exactly are Under planing, so I'm just having faith on the author being more creative than I am.

Come to think of it, all Billy had done before the traitor reveal was have two comedic panels (When the aliens appeared). So that is probably true.


Pretty much this

Since I was into Billy's original design I have paid closer attention to his character than to others, and pretty much the only time we have known him a bit better is Tatiana's flashback, and that was like one chapter before his traitor reveal. Also, besides that and those little comedic panels, the most we had seen of him was when they fought Victor, and even there his skill wasn't properly showcased.

By now, as a character, he was still pretty much like Tatiana before the ship arc. A mysterios metal ball. And just like her, if we had spent at least one small arc with him that would have been enough to make him grow on us. The author is good at that.

If they did that, I think most of the casual readers will guess that the traitor is Nico. He is grumpy, always whines about something, and probably just betrays his team for science.

I don't know who I would have picked. It's very hard to know now that I already know the traitor but I'll give it a thought.