Voting Round 2 Urek Mazino vs. Son Goku

[Demonspeed]

Battle Phase

• You are allowed to vote for one champion.
• After 3 days, the champion with the most votes will proceed into the next round.
• In case of a tie, a staff pick will break it.
• There will be no additional restrictions. A character will have access to all of his/her abilities according to the lore.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Mazino is cool and all but he doesn't stand a chance against goku

 

[Demonspeed]

My post isn't ready. But it should be later tonight.

 

[GrySun]

Doesn‘t Goku have a lot more feats to his name?

 

[Juviii]

SON GOKU​

Son Goku is a saiyan which allows him to not only have more physical feats but also gives you a lot of room to improve as saiyans keep growing stronger and stronger by facing death (which he has done all his life).

TENKAICHI BUDOKAI​

I dare to say that there is no one as experienced in tenkaichis than Goku. He fought there several times since he was a child, which is the reason why his name popped in my head automatically when I read the word "tenkaichi". It just screams Goku!

Having said that, he is the most experienced in this kind of tournament and pressure or competitition isn't new to him in the slighest. Not being the brightest cookie, he is definitely a genious when it comes to combat.

STRENGHT:​

At this point Goku is God tier. He can wipe whole planets or universes if he wanted. It was stated during the tournament between universes that Goku is the strongest being in the universe.

( and he didn't even have ultra instinct back then)​

Goku uses several techniques and forms, such as our beloved kamehameha or kaio-ken or his super saiyan forms, but the most remarkable and stronger is ultra instinct.

ULTRA INSTINCT:​

In this form Goku has God tier deffense and attack which he can use simultaneously. He can react to any threat so fast you can't even see him. His speed and agility increases greatly and it doesn't allow the enemy to think, because his attacks are faster than the process of thinking itself, being based on instinct.

Vote Goku!​

 

[Demonspeed]

I said I would post yesterday, but I preferred spending the rest of my Sunday night watching animes instead.

How can Urek beat Goku? My answer quite simple actually. Anyway, he definitely needs to remove his limiter for this one.

First, if you haven't read it, I advise you to read my post in the Urek VS Mob thread where I talk about him and the verse. I even put some feats and facts in bold for the TLDR people .

As strong as Urek is, I am not going to argue that he can beat Goku in a classic slug fest even if we haven't seen his full power. Maybe I could, after all, Urek is extremely skilled at close combat, enough to defeat the best swordsman of the verse, who masters a sword style allowing him to never miss his targets, meanwhile in Dragon Ball the more you advance the more you start to wonder if skills really matter.

Most DB characters are quite vulnerable to hax and Goku is no exception. Urek can simply use Compression and overpower him after that or seal him.

If you read my previous post, you already saw that Compression can be used on living beings and objects. Here is an an example of the former:

Spoiler

Compression when used on living beings doesn't only affect their size, it also nerfs them so they are weaker. In fact, some characters in ToG stay in compressed form and unleash their full power once they get serious.

And again if you read the first post you'll see that Urek can easily compress a whole forest and reduce it to the size of a fist. Considering the AOE, hand to hand is meaningless against this technique and so is UI. Moreover, Goku's height makes him much easier to shrink. If someone can reduce a forest to the size of a fist, why would he have trouble shrinking a 175 cm man and make him even smaller than a fist?

So, as I said earlier, after compressing him Urek can simply crush him, stomp him or whatever or also seal him in a box Mafuba style. A classic technique which is still effective to this day in Dragon Ball. But unlike with Mafuba Urek doesn't need to care about wasting his life force and doesn't need to aim because of its wide range.

That's all.

Doesn‘t Goku have a lot more feats to his name?

Quality over quantity . Goku has probably more feats than most of the characters in this tournament. He is even older than most of us.

 

[Blakestnight666]

I said I would post yesterday, but I preferred spending the rest of my Sunday night watching animes instead.

How can Urek beat Goku? My answer quite simple actually. Anyway, he definitely needs to remove his limiter for this one.

First, if you haven't read it, I advise you to read my post in the Urek VS Mob thread where I talk about him and the verse. I even put some feats and facts in bold for the TLDR people .

As strong as Urek is, I am not going to argue that he can beat Goku in a classic slug fest even if we haven't seen his full power. Maybe I could, after all, Urek is extremely skilled at close combat, enough to defeat the best swordsman of the verse, who masters a sword style allowing him to never miss his targets, meanwhile in Dragon Ball the more you advance the more you start to wonder if skills really matter.

Most DB characters are quite vulnerable to hax and Goku is no exception. Urek can simply use Compression and overpower him after that or seal him.

If you read my previous post, you already saw that Compression can be used on living beings and objects. Here is an an example of the former:

Spoiler

Compression when used on living beings doesn't only affect their size, it also nerfs them so they are weaker. In fact, some characters in ToG stay in compressed form and unleash their full power once they get serious.

And again if you read the first post you'll see that Urek can easily compress a whole forest and reduce it to the size of a fist. Considering the AOE, hand to hand is meaningless against this technique and so is UI. Moreover, Goku's height makes him much easier to shrink. If someone can reduce a forest to the size of a fist, why would he have trouble shrinking a 175 cm man and make him even smaller than a fist?

So, as I said earlier, after compressing him Urek can simply crush him, stomp him or whatever or also seal him in a box Mafuba style. A classic technique which is still effective to this day in Dragon Ball. But unlike with Mafuba Urek doesn't need to care about wasting his life force and doesn't need to aim because of its wide range.

That's all.




Quality over quantity . Goku has probably more feats than most of the characters in this tournament. He is even older than most of us.

Thing is DB characters can overpower hax by through their power. Vegeta literally overpowers babidi's mental manipulation, vegito ssj was able to resist buu's transmutation beam which killed others, goku literally outspeeds hit's time skip, goku broke out through hit's pocket dimension, freeza, goku are able to resist existence erasure

 

[Demonspeed]

Thing is DB characters can overpower hax by through their power. Vegeta literally overpowers babidi's mental manipulation, vegito ssj was able to resist buu's transmutation beam which killed others, goku literally outspeeds hit's time skip, goku broke out through hit's pocket dimension, freeza, goku are able to resist existence erasure

Babidi's mind manipulation was never stated to be that great. Vegito did get transmuted, but he was strong enough to defeat Buu nonetheless, that's not the same thing. Hit's Timeskip is still effective, albeit less effective and so on, it affected even Jiren.

In one of the recent arcs of DBS Moro had no issue absorbing Goku and Vegeta's powers. Also, the Mafuba is still unmatched. These little special abilities always work in DB and at this point it's the only way to make some antagonists threatening.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Babidi's mind manipulation was never stated to be that great. Vegito did get transmuted, but he was strong enough to defeat Buu nonetheless, that's not the same thing. Hit's Timeskip is still effective, albeit less effective and so on.

In one of the recent arcs of DBS Moro had no issue absorbing Goku and Vegeta's power. Also, the Mafuba is still unmatched. These little special abilities always work in DB and at this point it's the only way to make some antagonists threatening.

Babidi literally could control dabura who was stronger than perfect cell. And perfect cell is far stronger than thr likes of frieza who can destroy large planets to dwarf stars.

Everyone other than vegito getting transmuted could never move their bodies an they all died.

As i said goku still was able to overcome timeskip.

Dbs Moro is one of the strongest characters in the series. His Magic was strong enough to the point where even the dai kaio had to use almost all of his powers to seal his magic powers. And vegeta literally showed us that he could break out of moro's telekinesis after transforming into ssj

 

[Lambu]

I said I would post yesterday, but I preferred spending the rest of my Sunday night watching animes instead.

How can Urek beat Goku? My answer quite simple actually. Anyway, he definitely needs to remove his limiter for this one.

First, if you haven't read it, I advise you to read my post in the Urek VS Mob thread where I talk about him and the verse. I even put some feats and facts in bold for the TLDR people .

As strong as Urek is, I am not going to argue that he can beat Goku in a classic slug fest even if we haven't seen his full power. Maybe I could, after all, Urek is extremely skilled at close combat, enough to defeat the best swordsman of the verse, who masters a sword style allowing him to never miss his targets, meanwhile in Dragon Ball the more you advance the more you start to wonder if skills really matter.

Most DB characters are quite vulnerable to hax and Goku is no exception. Urek can simply use Compression and overpower him after that or seal him.

If you read my previous post, you already saw that Compression can be used on living beings and objects. Here is an an example of the former:

Spoiler

Compression when used on living beings doesn't only affect their size, it also nerfs them so they are weaker. In fact, some characters in ToG stay in compressed form and unleash their full power once they get serious.

And again if you read the first post you'll see that Urek can easily compress a whole forest and reduce it to the size of a fist. Considering the AOE, hand to hand is meaningless against this technique and so is UI. Moreover, Goku's height makes him much easier to shrink. If someone can reduce a forest to the size of a fist, why would he have trouble shrinking a 175 cm man and make him even smaller than a fist?

So, as I said earlier, after compressing him Urek can simply crush him, stomp him or whatever or also seal him in a box Mafuba style. A classic technique which is still effective to this day in Dragon Ball. But unlike with Mafuba Urek doesn't need to care about wasting his life force and doesn't need to aim because of its wide range.

That's all.




Quality over quantity . Goku has probably more feats than most of the characters in this tournament. He is even older than most of us.

I swear this part killed me

That being said, its true DB characters can break through weird haxy techniques through raw power. Pretty stupid concept most of the time but still true.
For that alone I lean slightly towards Goku here. Urek is damn strong and fast even without shinshu but MUI Goku is "theoretically" peak martial ability, so I would bet on him even if we equalize speed.

That said

Babidi literally could control dabura who was stronger than perfect cell. And perfect cell is far stronger than thr likes of frieza who can destroy large planets to dwarf stars.

Babidi could control Dabura because he was evil, not because his magic is all powerful. Also I have to ask... Where are you getting those weird facts as Freeza being capable of destroying dwarf stars?

 

[Nie Li]

Where are you getting those weird facts as Freeza being capable of destroying dwarf stars?

Scaling

 

[Demonspeed]

Babidi literally could control dabura who was stronger than perfect cell. And perfect cell is far stronger than thr likes of frieza who can destroy large planets to dwarf stars.

Everyone other than vegito getting transmuted could never move their bodies an they all died.

As i said goku still was able to overcome timeskip.

Dbs Moro is one of the strongest characters in the series. His Magic was strong enough to the point where even the dai kaio had to use almost all of his powers to seal his magic powers. And vegeta literally showed us that he could break out of moro's telekinesis after transforming into ssj

I didn't complete the Moro arc but I don't remember he or the Kaioshin being that strong? I am quite sure that they were all scrubs compared to our Saiyan duo. IIRC Moro only became a threat once he started to absorb energy.

I swear this part killed me

That being said, its true DB characters can break through weird haxy techniques through raw power. Pretty stupid concept most of the time but still true.
For that alone I lean slightly towards Goku here. Urek is damn strong and fast even without shinshu but MUI Goku is "theoretically" peak martial ability, so I would bet on him even if we equalize speed.

That said



Babidi could control Dabura because he was evil, not because his magic is all powerful. Also I have to ask... Where are you getting those weird facts as Freeza being capable of destroying dwarf stars?

My point was that UI would be useless against Urek's Compression because it's an AOE move. UI is really important in close ranged battles. He can't really dodge an omnidirectional move which can encompass a whole forest..

 

[Nie Li]

I'm voting for Urek. After the Moro arc I really don't buy all this "any hax is useless in Dragon Ball".

That villain was the first interesting villain in DB (even though he ended up being an unoriginal mix of Cell and Boo) in decades precisely because he was much weaker than Goku but he had a hax that allowed him to humiliate Goku and Vegeta and to eventually surpass them in strength.

DB characters somehow power through certain haxy abilities like Hit's very limited timestop, sure, but they're far from immune to haxes.

 

[lakhan220]

My point was that UI would be useless against Urek's Compression because it's an AOE move. UI is really important in close ranged battles. He can't really dodge an omnidirectional move which can encompass a whole forest..

Let me get this straight. UI actually attacks before user even thinks. He can compress a whole forest.
But goku's body in UI very easily percepts the attack and move away to other planet and send a blast tht can destroy entire planet from there..Don't think urek could compress tht huge level.

Next i would say instant transmission.......As urek starts or begins compression, what stops goku from just moving out at speed of light to another place. I don't think compression speed would still equal moving at speed of light or have tht gravitational force to actually capture object moving at speed of light.

Next i would say reaction speed, which is hard to measure but i would like to give DB characters a bit of advantage even here. Battle starts

Scenario 1- teleport behind and put a hand through urek or use energy blast
Scenario 2- just send a continent level blast at urek and make him compress or dodge and such.

Basically compression alone is not enough to limit goku due to 2 things, ability to teleport + reaction speed. Reaction speed can be up for debate but gotenks completed multiple rounds arnd earth in mere few minutes + tht stamina too.

My vote goes to goku here.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2021 ---

Well, this actually solidifies my belief, he can instantly go beyond city level like buu blasted stuffs arnd. So, compression shldn't pose much of a problem to him.

 

[Blakestnight666]

I swear this part killed me

That being said, its true DB characters can break through weird haxy techniques through raw power. Pretty stupid concept most of the time but still true.
For that alone I lean slightly towards Goku here. Urek is damn strong and fast even without shinshu but MUI Goku is "theoretically" peak martial ability, so I would bet on him even if we equalize speed.

That said



Babidi could control Dabura because he was evil, not because his magic is all powerful. Also I have to ask... Where are you getting those weird facts as Freeza being capable of destroying dwarf stars?

And where does it ever says that his mind control isn't powerful ? Show us some scans.Frieza casually destroys large planets with a single blast. And before you scream where is large planets, it has been already stated that namek and planet vegeta are far bigger than earth. And through scaling it's not wrong to say that frieza can destroy a dwarf star with his full powered attack

 

[Demonspeed]

Let me get this straight. UI actually attacks before user even thinks. He can compress a whole forest.
But goku's body in UI very easily percepts the attack and move away to other planet and send a blast tht can destroy entire planet from there..Don't think urek could compress tht huge level.

UI allows him to react without thinking, it doesn't give him foresight. He can't just know what is coming to him and it truly applies to hand to hand battles.

Next i would say instant transmission.......As urek starts or begins compression, what stops goku from just moving out at speed of light to another place. I don't think compression speed would still equal moving at speed of light or have tht gravitational force to actually capture object moving at speed of light.

Next i would say reaction speed, which is hard to measure but i would like to give DB characters a bit of advantage even here. Battle starts




Scenario 1- teleport behind and put a hand through urek or use energy blast
Scenario 2- just send a continent level blast at urek and make him compress or dodge and such.

Basically compression alone is not enough to limit goku due to 2 things, ability to teleport + reaction speed. Reaction speed can be up for debate but gotenks completed multiple rounds arnd earth in mere few minutes + tht stamina too.

I thought no one would mention IT . We don't know the speed of the Compression, but we do know that Urek's attacks reach light speed. As you said these things are hard to measure. Yes, IT could allow him to escape from being sealed, but it wouldn't allow him to negate the primary effect of Compression ie size reduction and abilities nerf. It would also not allow him to prevent being potentially crushed. Urek is also able to use Spatial Distortion to teleport and stuff, it has even been stated that he could kill all organisms on a floor(which are at least continent-sized) simply with that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2021 ---

And where does it ever says that his mind control isn't powerful ? Show us some scans.Frieza casually destroys large planets with a single blast. And before you scream where is large planets, it has been already stated that namek and planet vegeta are far bigger than earth. And through scaling it's not wrong to say that frieza can destroy a dwarf star with his full powered attack

Doesn't really change the fact that it works on evil people, Babidi was targeted for that very reason and he intentionally let himself get controlled. It wouldn't work on good people. This ability is irrelevant here anyway.

 

[Blakestnight666]

UI allows him to react without thinking, it doesn't give him foresight. He can't just know what is coming to him and it truly applies to hand to hand battles.



I thought no one would mention IT . We don't know the speed of the Compression, but we do know that Urek's attacks reach light speed. As you said these things are hard to measure. Yes, IT could allow him to escape from being sealed, but it wouldn't allow him to negate the primary effect of Compression ie size reduction and abilities nerf. It would also not allow him to prevent being potentially crushed. Urek is also able to use Spatial Distortion to teleport and stuff, it has even been stated that he could kill all organisms on a floor(which are at least continent-sized) simply with that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2021 ---

Doesn't really change the fact that it works on evil people, Babidi was targeted for that very reason and he intentionally let himself get controlled. It wouldn't work on good people. This ability is irrelevant here anyway.

as you said it doesn't matter because urek would get blitzed hundred times a second by goku who is easily mftl+++++. And a single punch from goku would turn him into a blood mist

 

[Lambu]

I didn't complete the Moro arc but I don't remember he or the Kaioshin being that strong? I am quite sure that they were all scrubs compared to our Saiyan duo. IIRC Moro only became a threat once he started to absorb energy.



My point was that UI would be useless against Urek's Compression because it's an AOE move. UI is really important in close ranged battles. He can't really dodge an omnidirectional move which can encompass a whole forest..

Ah yes, I know that Goku would most probably get trapped by the compression. What I mean is that imo he would be able to escape from it through ki. This is ofc up to debate, Im also not up to date with ToG to correctly measure Urek's power.

Let me get this straight. UI actually attacks before user even thinks. He can compress a whole forest.
But goku's body in UI very easily percepts the attack and move away to other planet and send a blast tht can destroy entire planet from there..Don't think urek could compress tht huge level.

Yeah as demon said UI doesnt work like that, it increases the reaction speed of the user since they dont need to think their offensive or defensive moves, but if something cannot be dodged he will eat it, like we saw with Jiren and Moro.

Also Instant transmission requires the user to think in order to be performed so not a thing you can pair with UI (unless Tori retcons for the millionth time but he didnt do that yet).

So yeah, reaction speed with UI is what gives him the edge over Urek, but the rest is quite up to debate.

And where does it ever says that his mind control isn't powerful ? Show us some scans.Frieza casually destroys large planets with a single blast. And before you scream where is large planets, it has been already stated that namek and planet vegeta are far bigger than earth. And through scaling it's not wrong to say that frieza can destroy a dwarf star with his full powered attack

Please read carefully, I didnt say that about Babidi's power.

Also no, Frieza wasnt capable of casually destroying planets until Super. In DB he made concentrated attacks to the core of the planets to make them collapse.

Is your scaling seriously based on size?

as you said it doesn't matter because urek would get blitzed hundred times a second by goku who is easily mftl+++++. And a single punch from goku would turn him into a blood mist

I know its useless to tell you this but... DBS characters are speed of light at best during combat.
Dyspo was stated to reach speed of light in his ultimate form in ToP and even with terrible technique he was untouchable to Golden Frieza, a guy that could at least react to Jiren's attacks.

So... yeah lets say Goku is speed of light with UI, but nothing beyond that. And I clarify, Im refering to combat speed. Travelling speed in DragonBall is the most inconsistent in all fiction so dont bring "feats" born from it.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Ah yes, I know that Goku would most probably get trapped by the compression. What I mean is that imo he would be able to escape from it through ki. This is ofc up to debate, Im also not up to date with ToG to correctly measure Urek's power.



Yeah as demon said UI doesnt work like that, it increases the reaction speed of the user since they dont need to think their offensive or defensive moves, but if something cannot be dodged he will eat it, like we saw with Jiren and Moro.

Also Instant transmission requires the user to think in order to be performed so not a thing you can pair with UI (unless Tori retcons for the millionth time but he didnt do that yet).

So yeah, reaction speed with UI is what gives him the edge over Urek, but the rest is quite up to debate.



Please read carefully, I didnt say that about Babidi's power.

Also no, Frieza wasnt capable of casually destroying planets until Super. In DB he made concentrated attacks to the core of the planets to make them collapse.

Is your scaling seriously based on size?



I know its useless to tell you this but... DBS characters are speed of light at best during combat.
Dyspo was stated to reach speed of light in his ultimate form in ToP and even with terrible technique he was untouchable to Golden Frieza, a guy that could at least react to Jiren's attacks.

So... yeah lets say Goku is speed of light with UI, but nothing beyond that. And I clarify, Im refering to combat speed. Travelling speed in DragonBall is the most inconsistent in all fiction so dont bring "feats" born from it.

Lol man you are really something .

I have been debunking you from who knows when. Suppressed frieza casually destroyed planet vegeta by throwing a supernova and this has been shown in dbs broly movie He casually destroys earth in resurrection of F before vegeta could react.

And lol those destroying the core thing has been retconned years ago and you are still hung on it lol.

Dude you surely lowball db to hell. Dbz characters are reletivistic in the beginning of z. Raditz was easily dodging attacks that could reach the moon in an instant. Dyspo was faster than light and by an unqantifiable amount.

And what's with this travelling speed being unquntifable when gotenks was moving acoss the planet multiple times, goku during moro fight was travelling the entire planet under a second, or kid buu who is going across the entire galaxy destroying planets and solar systems.

Man you are the worst lowbslling debater i have ever come across.

Gotenks travelling the globe multiple times and even took rest.

Goku and moro moving across the earth so fast that Moro could even create a clone which moved from a different side.

Beerus and champa moving at mftl speed destroying planet after planet.

Piccolo's casual attack could destroy the moon instantly.

and radditz dodged this his blasts easily

 

[lakhan220]

UI allows him to react without thinking, it doesn't give him foresight. He can't just know what is coming to him and it truly applies to hand to hand battles.

Isn't this contradictory statement in itself. React without thinking and foresight in same sentence ?
Why can't dodging and going to other planet be instinct ?
Instant transmission because his body perceived it as a threat ? Hmm, tht hand to hand only, is it specified ? Because i saw whis statement being theorotically undefeatable..something like compression/mafuba surely would have been included by him in the statement , wouldn't it be now ? Else, it starts looking stupid lmfao tht statement.

Yeah as demon said UI doesnt work like that, it increases the reaction speed of the user since they dont need to think their offensive or defensive moves, but if something cannot be dodged he will eat it, like we saw with Jiren and Moro.

Also Instant transmission requires the user to think in order to be performed so not a thing you can pair with UI (unless Tori retcons for the millionth time but he didnt do that yet).

So yeah, reaction speed with UI is what gives him the edge over Urek, but the rest is quite up to debate.

Sorry lambu, but i surely think whis statement abt UI being theoretically undefeatable included mafuba aka compression, time warp and other techs into consideration. Because if not, it is really stupid - the statement itself.

And besides tht, i also pointed other stuff. Stamina + reaction speed...i posted a clip above where in few moments gotenks travels arnd world multiple times.....and only in SS1 , we later have SS3, SS blue and UI...so speed increases exponentially. basically, u can find their reaction speed or the speed they can go to in their battles

My point is before urek even starts compression, Goku would have killed him multiple times.

Compression counter - release blast the size buu did above which almost decimated city like nothing. Battle starts, release omni directional blast. Urek either has to escape or try to compress blast and not goku and goku can easily kill him while he is busy dealing with it. If he decides to compress Goku, blast released still kills him.