Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Franz]

What sucks about the MHA arc was that it seemed like it was supposed to be that arc. The one that was supposed to make the reader go "holy shit". Long build up with major consequences but in the end it sorta fell flat.

Opinion.

For me the arc was very good.

 

[Mawara]

I don't want to hear about "impure reasons" from someone who only reads manga for the cute boys

THIS, and having so-called "impure reasons" doesnt make a protagonist a bad character, it just makes them an anti-hero. And to be honest, in the debates Superman(prime example of a pure hero) Vs Batman(prime example of an anti-hero), people prefer the anti-hero(though it's totally OK liking them both).


Regarding the topic of "large-scale war-type-fight"-arcs, I've made the experience that these fall flat, when the mangaka/writer wants them, without to consider their characters motivations in those. For example, once I've read a fantasy story about an artist who ran away from a dictatorship, so he could finally paint and draw. But rebells catched him and he was forced to fight against the dictatorship, so we could get a huge battle at the end of the book, which was so freaking boring. The protagonist didnt want to take part in this, and having a battle for a action-sake, makes the very same thing quite dull.

That's why the Marineford-War Arc worked. It wasnt just 2 groups fighting to see who would win, it was to save Ace, which made it for many characters (and readers) more personal, and more interesting. Especially with the planned execution, which gave the whole thing a time limit to raise the tension! And with Garp on the Marine's side, we also got conflicts and shades of grey in this whole thing.
Overall, Oda really did his homework, when he've planned this arc. kudos.

Oh and remembering my WSJ ranking a few days ago? Changed my mind regarding MHA-
I'm loving this whole children-thing in the manga right now, MHA deserves to be higher on my list for the next weeks!

 

[nonowa]

You know which arc really feels like it will be a memorable and impressive part of its manga? The newest TPN arc. The new chapter really proved that Shirai is willing to go all the way with it, which is great.

 

[Doughboy]

Speaking of impure thoughts is nobody gonna mention Dr. Stone's last page or was it just me

 

[Aipom626]

Speaking of impure thoughts is nobody gonna mention Dr. Stone's last page or was it just me

Nothing screams pure like saving one's life by taking medicine lol

 

[Mawara]

Speaking of impure thoughts is nobody gonna mention Dr. Stone's last page or was it just me

There is a saying in the german language "ein Schelm der was böses denkt", or translated: A naughty rascal, who thinks something dirty here.
... but no, it's not just you here who saw this and thought about something else. I guess Boichi stays true to his roots.

 

[OfficialHxH]

 

[Tamil]

And why was he rushed? Does it ever cross your mind that the series becomes bad, loses its fan base, and forced to rush?

This isn't even bait. It's one thing to like a series that you don't want it to get cancel, then not seeing its flaws and blame it on other factors. Legit every time Toriko is mention on this thread it's always about how it was unjustly cancel because of other factors.

Also, there aren't that many female characters for its female fanbase to related to. Rin is a minor character. So it can't attract that many readers from different genders.

To me, Toriko had 3 big dips in quality, a) very start of the TS & b) the skipping to the 8 kings/neo stuff during the another arc & c) the three area arc skip in one single chapter.

Tbf, what I find almost as annoying as people saying it got axed unjustly is the that Toriko couldn't be more successful since it didn't have many female characters or fanservice (I know you didn't mention fanservice). It's a dumb criticism since it just wouldn't work, it's a manly series, that's one of the foundation of the series. Toriko didn't have a lot of female readers but the lack of female characters shouldn't really be blamed for that.

I would more so blame the lack of development with it's cast. When I compare Takeshi to Toriko, it was surprising to see how developed/fleshed out the cast of characters in Takeshi are such a short time frame (atm there's about 17 chapters translated for Takeshi) which Toriko never really had with it's main cast in most if not all of it's entire serialization! Shimabu did tease the development of the main cast in Toriko during the 3 area skip which made it even more annoying. Also, from what I see on twitter, Takeshi had a pretty big/decent female fanbase size which is understandable since Takeshi had relateable story arcs to both male/females.

Anyway, in short, I would more blame that Toriko never took off as much as people wanted it to since the cast wasn't all that developed and their ambitions were just driven by appetite, not some sort of personal goal/attachment. It may or may not the series more attention from females specifically but it would've gotten the attention from guys who just brushed Toriko off as a series that's not their cup of tea since it never had really serious moments that added to Toriko's characters. For a MANLY series, Midora really only felt like the manly character in the series since he went through so much and his sendoff was amazing. It's a shame that the Toriko main cast never got fleshed out to that extent since it would've helped the series a lot more than just adding female characters.

I remember Toriko's rankings dropped during the cooking festival, aka the arc that got rid of the adventure aspect to focus entirely on the power levels and fights and while it went back afterwards it was already too late.

Just goes to show, a big climactic final battle-type arc doesn't work for everyone.

Nah, it was still in the top 3 a lot and most of the time damn near, not enough to warrant your theory of why it dipped in quality. Also the focus on power levels had happened before that too. I would argue it was the start of the TS, which IMHO, is one of the worst starts. It skipped Toriko's "journey" to finding Komatsu and we got no answers until like the end of the bambina arc. The heracles & bambina arc were good and even the another arc at the start but it dropped again in quality when it just randomly skipped to focusing on the 8 kings/neoacacia/etc. It was interesting content but happened so disruptively that it made the flow of the story convoluted. I'm not sure who to blame, Shimabu or his editor, or both.

Another thing that was more infuriating was the three area skip in one chapter. It was so unlike Shimabu to do this but he was probably rushed due to the reasons mentioned above. Anyway, Shimabu mentioned how hard it was to handle the TS during the end of Toriko so that says a lot. I am glad that Shimabu himself realizes that the TS didn't go well and admitted to it, which means that he could learn from it.

 

[SharkBait]

I dont understand MANLY series or is that a genre?

 

[Halloween]

And why was he rushed? Does it ever cross your mind that the series becomes bad, loses its fan base, and forced to rush?

This isn't even bait. It's one thing to like a series that you don't want it to get cancel, then not seeing its flaws and blame it on other factors. Legit every time Toriko is mention on this thread it's always about how it was unjustly cancel because of other factors.

Also, there aren't that many female characters for its female fanbase to related to. Rin is a minor character. So it can't attract that many readers from different genders.

Toriko's cancellation had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of quality. It had everything to do with the anime being horrible and it's focus on musclemen. Shimabu can't really draw women all that well, so I can understand why he opted to not include that many. But, that was ultimately the downfall of the series. Not enough cute/hot women. Komatsu should have been a woman, for instance.

 

[Tamil]

Toriko's cancellation had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of quality. It had everything to do with the anime being horrible and it's focus on musclemen. Shimabu can't really draw women all that well, so I can understand why he opted to not include that many. But, that was ultimately the downfall of the series. Not enough cute/hot women. Komatsu should have been a woman, for instance.

Nah. Shimabu can draw women. Like I mentioned before, adding female characters isn't going to do much for Toriko's popularity and one of it's foundations is being a manly series. I guess there could've been "manly" female fights in the series but it was clear Shimabu was inspired from Fist of the north star, JoJo (part 3), Kinnikuan, etc. manly series that had didn't have a lot of female characters.

Komatsu was there to bring in a younger male audience and he was fine. He didn't have to change his gender.

 

[SharkBait]

Two male leads / lack of female chara lead has worked numerous times for jump. So komatsu being male was not the problem.

 

[TyVip]

MANLY series didn't stop Fist of the North Star and JoJo for having its female fanbase and become 100+ million sellers. You think they can achieve that with male fanbase alone?

Also, having female characters to attract female readers are legitimately criticism/advice. Eichirou Oda talked about this, how he has diverse set of characters so a lots of genders/demographics can related to.

That's all i'm going to discuss about Toriko, back to current Jump.

 

[cody]

This is so nice. It just makes me mad to think how badly Jump are botching up Boichi's art with their horrible volume covers.

 

[Aipom626]

This is so nice. It just makes me mad to think how badly Jump are botching up Boichi's art with their horrible volume covers.

I agree. If they want to showcase the rock-cracking effect, use it on most of the back cover, creep it up the spine, and have a little bit sneak onto the front cover by the spine to give the effect it's a looming threat. That's how I'd do it at least.

 

[Doughboy]

How is it Jump's fault for his volume covers, is Jump that controlling?

 

[TyVip]

How is it Jump's fault for his volume covers, is Jump that controlling?

If it's the same as every magazine.
There should be a designer who put together the Jump logo, volume title, volume number and special effect ( in Dr Stone it would be the weird rock effect).

AND the author/artist have a final saying in this, or at least i believe they do have a saying in this before the designer make it into a cover.

 

[ShenGao]

Whoever chose that stone design should be fired. Boichi has a good title font and is using it in every color page.

And then you have this ugly thing here where you can barely read the black letters.

 

[Aipom626]

Whoever chose that stone design should be fired. Boichi has a good title font and is using it in every color page.

And then you have this ugly thing here where you can barely read the black letters.

I honestly wish there was a way we could know what the first week volume sales for each volume could've been if none of the volumes had that tacky rock effect all over the front cover. I'd have to imagine each would've been a bit higher.

 

[cody]

Whoever chose that stone design should be fired. Boichi has a good title font and is using it in every color page.

And then you have this ugly thing here where you can barely read the black letters.

I think Boichi shared what his original art submission looked like somewhere, I might be wrong though.

You know what, OMG, you are right, I just realized they aren't using that font, why, just fucking why would they do that?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2017 ---

I honestly wish there was a way we could know what the first week volume sales for each volume could've been if none of the volumes had that tacky rock effect all over the front cover. I'd have to imagine each would've been a bit higher.

You know what, I really feel like the Japanese people legit don't care about these kinds of things. But you might be right, if the first cover looked more appealing, it might've attracted more people.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2017 ---

I checked his blog, that's where he posted his original art. Warning, this might trigger you.

Original

The tragic aftermath

Original

The slightly less tragic aftermath

Do they want to sabotage Boichi or something? Like, come on...

Edit: I wonder what hair color they'll use in the anime xD.