Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Caiops]

^ You're actually right. I did not get that reference at all.

Thats because Destiny 2 sold more digital copies than physical.(at least in the USA).

 

[Tamil]

Both pale on comparison with HeroAca

All three pale in comparison to HxH. What's your point?

Meanwhile with HxH's story-telling...

Spoiler

Found it on reddit. Togashi is a madman indeed

 

[Obitooooo]

Total sales ( 6 Feb - 5 Mar )

01) One Piece : 1.387.226
03) Hunter x Hunter : 468.893
04) Haikyu! : 430.635
05) My Hero Academia : 429.659
09) Black Clover : 270.160
15) Shokugeki no Soma : 198.238
17) Dragon Ball Super : 171.676

 

[AllEyez]

All three pale in comparison to HxH. What's your point?

Meanwhile with HxH's story-telling...

Spoiler

Found it on reddit. Togashi is a madman indeed

I don't read HxH.
is that all the plots still going in the overall series?

 

[ShenGao]

Yeah, like i said before, BC won't even reach Toriko level of sales. Shueisha should stop pushing mangas just because they are a battle shonen and sell well in the beginning, and push things like Neverland and Kimetsu no Yaiba, mangas who didn't start selling well, but the "WOM" was so good, they are now a sucess.

BC and KnY are selling and dropping off the charts at the same amount.
│*98616 (6)│129115│------│------│------┃*,129,115 (*13)┃2016/10｜ブラッククローバー 8
│*59814 (3)│113151│131749│------│------┃*,200,980 (171)┃2016/12｜ブラッククローバー 9
│*66723 (3)│121879│140385│------│------┃*,140,385 (*17)┃2017/03｜ブラッククローバー 10
│*81312 (5)│109936│122681│------│------┃*,122,681 (*19)┃2017/10｜鬼滅の刃 8
│*89077 (7)│110729│******│130267│------┃*,130,267 (*28)┃2017/12｜鬼滅の刃 9
│*65861 (3)│------│------│------│------┃*,*65,861 (**3)┃2018/03｜鬼滅の刃 10

 

[Tarot]

Black Clover's push is nowhere near as big as Toriko. Toriko aired in Dbz Kai's slot along with One Piece and had far more exposure among the young audience. That alone puts it way ahead.

 

[OfficialHxH]

I don't read HxH.
is that all the plots still going in the overall series?

Yeah that's everything happening in the current arc. Shits crazy lol

 

[tirakai]

Black Clover can't even sell 500k first week, it's such a massive flop.

 

[De La Croissant]

All three pale in comparison to HxH. What's your point?

Meanwhile with HxH's story-telling...

Spoiler

Found it on reddit. Togashi is a madman indeed

O


Just kidding.


Anyway, a complex plot does not necessarily mean a good plot, right? Especially if Togashi needs to spend pages and pages with walltexts to explain all this complexity. In fact, the best HxH moments for me are the simplest. That's where the author's storytelling really shines.

 

[xAsum0x]

I think the opposite. The level of detail in regards to everything in HxH is pretty impressive.

 

[Leoat12]

I think that, like contemporary art, which you don't understand quite well why it is art, but you think it's cool anyway, complex mangas are the same for some readers, like, "I don't understand at all, but it is cool!". XD
Oda is the master of simple yet complex story, he really knows how to make you understand despite the grandiose universe he has built. It is one of the reasons it is long in my opinion, he doesn't pick a huge block of plot and expect you to shallow it all at once.

 

[WyldViolet]

I think that, like contemporary art, which you don't understand quite well why it is art, but you think it's cool anyway, complex mangas are the same for some readers, like, "I don't understand at all, but it is cool!". XD
Oda is the master of simple yet complex story, he really knows how to make you understand despite the grandiose universe he has built. It is one of the reasons it is long in my opinion, he doesn't pick a huge block of plot and expect you to shallow it all at once.

Just because it's dense doesn't mean it's hard to understand.
Hunter x Hunter is pretty accessible yet also very richly detailed.
It's a very hard thing to pull off and Togashi pulls it off extremely well (even if I think he overuses text dumps, but as another user said he's also brilliant with subtle visual storytelling)

 

[De La Croissant]

I think that, like contemporary art, which you don't understand quite well why it is art, but you think it's cool anyway, complex mangas are the same for some readers, like, "I don't understand at all, but it is cool!". XD
Oda is the master of simple yet complex story, he really knows how to make you understand despite the grandiose universe he has built. It is one of the reasons it is long in my opinion, he doesn't pick a huge block of plot and expect you to shallow it all at once.

Well, I disagree a bit because in Dressrosa I found the thing somewhat convoluted/messy. It made the experience a little annoying.

I mean, it's cool when an author details his story , it means he loves what he's doing and undoubtedly increases the interest in the content, but sometimes I think they exaggerate. The kind of "complexity" I like is more about the subtexts and layers that the story hides than how labyrinthine is its surface.

 

[TM2]

For me it feels like Togashi is bored of Hunter x Hunter. Not that the writing is lazy, far from it. But it feels like the stuff he's writing this past arc and perhaps before it pretty much abandoned what HxH had been up until this point.

For me it was exploring the world through the eyes of characters with clearly defined motives whose actions drove the plot. It was because I was invested in the arcs of the characters that I could get into the complexities of the powers and relationships. I care about the events that happen because I care about the characters involved.

It feels like Togashi pretty much abandoned the character focused approach of previous chapters in favor writing complexity for its own sake.

For me personally, in this arc I could honestly care less about what happens to most of these people barring Kurapika. I could care less about who lives and dies. Hardly any of the Princes feel adequately fleshed out and because there are so many of them they don't really get any opportunity to shine or differentiate themselves in any meaningful capacity.

Yes there are a lot of complexities in HxH but it was almost always in service of a character's greater goal, a character the audience at least has some investment in. Here, despite the complexities and the deaths involved, just feels like dicking around with a bunch of nameless expendables and counting the hiatuses until the next arc.

 

[Leoat12]

Just because it's dense doesn't mean it's hard to understand.
Hunter x Hunter is pretty accessible yet also very richly detailed.
It's a very hard thing to pull off and Togashi pulls it off extremely well (even if I think he overuses text dumps, but as another user said he's also brilliant with subtle visual storytelling)

I think the best stories are the ones that the author creates it in such a way that you understand without having to explain everything in detail. Too much exposure is bad for pacing and overall enjoyment.

 

[101nemesis]

I think the opposite. The level of detail in regards to everything in HxH is pretty impressive.

Agreed. Then again though, he takes such long breaks that he has ample time to write down things in great detail.

Thats because Destiny 2 sold more digital copies than physical.(at least in the USA).

Games is a completely different market. Digital games are booming. Just like how digital songs and albums are booming in the music industry. It's not just a one-off example. It's how most media are consumed in those markets these days. Manga is a different story. Digital market hasn't caught on yet.

 

[Scruffy8642]

I kind of agree. One Piece does complex story telling, but Oda shows everything visually so it's easier to digest (though it also kills the pacing which is an issue many have with OP). Means we get stuff like Dressrossa that followed like 7 point of views at once before converging them, which while it was a pain for individual event progress, a lot was happening and it was incredible satisfying once all resolved at once. On the other hand, Togashi tends towards explanations and off-screening stuff more often, leaving it up to the reader to work out, so it's not quite as easy. That said, it wouldn't normally be an issue, but for a series with HxH's serialisation schedule, it really does mess with comprehension in the long term, and rereads are a must. HxH really is the worst kind of series to have the schedule it has.

I wouldn't say either method is ideal, and each lends too far towards one side, which negatively impacts the story in some way.

 

[Tarot]

Games is a completely different market. Digital games are booming. Just like how digital songs and albums are booming in the music industry. It's not just a one-off example. It's how most media are consumed in those markets these days. Manga is a different story. Digital market hasn't caught on yet.

Digital market has already overtaken physical print sales in Japan.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...ga-volume-sales-in-japan-for-1st-time/.128360

Physical market is dying.

 

[xAsum0x]

It not even complex, everything from the actual nen abilities, to the thinking process of characters and strategies is super detailed. I doubt anyone who didn't put effort into their story could do what Togashi does with HxH and have it make sense

 

[TM2]

It not even complex, everything from the actual nen abilities, to the thinking process of characters and strategies is super detailed. I doubt anyone who didn't put effort into their story could do what Togashi does with HxH and have it make sense

I don't think its the degree of complexity or the amount of detail that goes into the strategy is issue of contention here. I think the main issue is that Togashi is focusing so much on the thinking process and strategies (which may not be that complex to begin with), it comes at the cost of character development and by extension reader investment into the characters.