Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Jovan]

I am happy that each volume of Spy X Family is selling so well, it's truly the best debut Manga in Jump in many years.

That and Shy (from Champion) have been 2 best newbies from 2019 for me.

Kind of a shame SxF overshadowed Heart Gear (the serialization companion from the same batch), also a very decent read.

 

[Rain Spectre]

That and Shy (from Champion) have been 2 best newbies from 2019 for me.

Kind of a shame SxF overshadowed Heart Gear (the serialization companion from the same batch), also a very decent read.

Heart Gear is doing very well in France, if it interests you. Per Hayashi (the editor), they ordered a first printing three times that of Japan's.

 

[MangAniMY]

But do sales of the My Hero guidebook count as franchise sales?

most likely not, since Kimetsu fanbook is known to not count towards the series total

 

[Tarot]

Win what? Best seller of the year?. Realistically speaking, Kimetsu has almost zero chance. OP new volume means another 2 millions copies sold.

And Kimetsu new volume means another 600k + Boost for the backlog volumes. Chances are above zero.

 

[Leoat12]

People are wondering how we can make predictions with one day of sales, easy one, there is a bunch of sales chart worms here, we wouldn't be here otherwise. We take pride in our expertise.

But seriously now, just knowing reasonably known variables (that's why I asked Kimetsu no Yaiba past volumes sales) and the standard behavior for these rankings (they usually go down) to make an estimation, it is not something from another world. It can surprise everybody and goes up? Yes, but like someone said, the potential for growth maybe even less than other series because it is by an already established author. It seems Japanese readers like to buy their volumes at the first day of sales and most of the Jump readers, if not all, already know that Kishimoto came back, otherwise I would ask where he was the last couple of months. If they didn't buy it in the first couples of days, I wouldn't expect much after that.

 

[animeexpert]

For those curious, here's some summary points from the Kubo x Horikoshi interview. More of them are in the twitter thread:

The whole point isn't about cancelling what is failing, but the whole ruthless practice of Shonen Jump regarding veterans, and what is a failure depends a lot, the thing with SJ is that they're like a slave of their own system, you can sell more than enough to survive well in any other manga magazine, but if you're not doing well in the rankings/surveys they just cancel your manga doesn't matter if is a newbie or a veteran.

Isn't just as easy as "try again", there's a reason why so many popular authors that started on Jump never had anything more in the magazine, it's because the system, they want to treat a author that gave a lot of money to them like they treat a newbie that just started now, put these authors again under the pressure of having to go well in surveys and sell a certain amount of copies, if not maybe you will get 30 chapters and bye bye, seriously, who would want to get back after this?

It's how Shonen Jump works but isn't because they're the number 1 of that it makes the best system because even Shonen Jump is slowly changing and lowering their standards of sales.



You don't really get, i'm not talking about SJ publishing veterans for years just because a name, if the manga really doesn't sell, they're gonna be cancelled or quickly ended even with the author being well known, the thing is Shonen Jump system is naturally a bad fit for veterans, it forces SJ to be ruthless with authors that gave them money and popularity just because the series isn't selling at the standards that they created or because isn't getting enough votes, Shonen Jump has a long history of bad and disrespectful treatment with their big names because of this "ultra competitive" envoirment they created, to the point where you can have the crazy talk about Masashi Kishimoto possibly being cancelled because isn't "selling that much" or isn't "doing so well in the rankings".

Your logic about "failing" is nothing more than something based on how Shonen Jump works and their standard, not how the rest of the magazines works and their standards to what is or not a failure.

If last saiyuki was published in weekly shonen magazine, I'm pretty sure it may have survived. The author also deleted his Twitter account, which pretty much pains me and shows how harsh wsj system can be.

 

[MangAniMY]

People are wondering how we can make predictions with one day of sales, easy one, there is a bunch of sales chart worms here, we wouldn't be here otherwise. We take pride in our expertise.

But seriously now, just knowing reasonably known variables (that's why I asked Kimetsu no Yaiba past volumes sales) and the standard behavior for these rankings (they usually go down) to make an estimation, it is not something from another world. It can surprise everybody and goes up? Yes, but like someone said, the potential for growth maybe even less than other series because it is by an already established author. It seems Japanese readers like to buy their volumes at the first day of sales and most of the Jump readers, if not all, already know that Kishimoto came back, otherwise I would ask where he was the last couple of months. If they didn't buy it in the first couples of days, I wouldn't expect much after that.

and... do you see me making anything?

 

[Leoat12]

Well, every author who publishes on Jump should be aware of its system and that they can be cancelled if they don't perform.
While you guys are talking about the failures, there were successes cases as well: Horikoshi had the manga I don't even want to mention, it was terrible with a deserving terrible performance, was axed mercilessly. He came back and he is now one of the pillars of the magazine. Komi Naoshi was also one with Double Arts getting axed in a very polemic way, this one even has a lot of defenders even now, then he came back and made success. Tabata with Black Clover as well.
It is a matter of perseverance.

and... do you see me making anything?

Making anything what?

 

[animeexpert]

He is not serializing Naruto, he is serializing another series completely different. A series must be judged by its quality only not by the name of the author. Let's make an exercise: let's suppose that series X had the same terrible rankings Samurai 8 has, would we be discussing whether would be cancelled or not? It would be in the chop block already without question, the volume sales wouldn't matter because it would be terrible anyway. Don't you realize that everybody here is just clinging to Kishimoto name and hope that it will save the series from doom? This is not right, it is like a spoiled child clinging to his rich parents his entire life.

His perks are there already, he will get money from Naruto his entire life, job well done, now it is another series and even for the respect I have for him, I will judge the series fair and square. That's what the magazine readers are doing, people who have the patience and passion to vote for the magazine doesn't do this for fun only.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2019 ---

Anyway, I will end this discussion here, tired of it already.

Bro we know that, It's all about respect and how the author helped carrying the magazine for being one of the most known. The Orion just started, wait for the full sold results than we can complain after that S8 doesnt deserve the push..

 

[Rain Spectre]

Well, every author who publishes on Jump should be aware of its system and that they can be cancelled if they don't perform.
While you guys are talking about the failures, there were successes cases as well: Horikoshi had the manga I don't even want to mention, it was terrible with a deserving terrible performance, was axed mercilessly. He came back and he is now one of the pillars of the magazine. Komi Naoshi was also one with Double Arts getting axed in a very polemic way, this one even has a lot of defenders even now, then he came back and made success. Tabata with Black Clover as well.
It is a matter of perseverance.

Furudate also failed his first serialization as well. Interesting that he and Hori struggled so much before becoming the modern faces of Jump. Contrast that with the Big 3, who all found success almost all out of the gate (even Zombie Powder had a Double Arts-esque cult following in spite of its cancellation).

 

[Jovan]

Furudate also failed his first serialization as well. Interesting that he and Hori struggled so much before becoming the modern faces of Jump. Contrast that with the Big 3, who all found success almost all out of the gate (even Zombie Powder had a Double Arts-esque cult following in spite of its cancellation).

For what it is worth, Kiben Gakuha had a decent start for a newbie (at that time) mangaka.
│*12384 (3)│*20617│------│------│------┃*,*20,617 (*10)┃2010/06｜詭弁学派、四ツ谷先輩の怪談。 1

 

[Rain Spectre]

For what it is worth, Kiben Gakuha had a decent start for a newbie (at that time) mangaka
│*12384 (3)│*20617│------│------│------┃*,*20,617 (*10)┃2010/06｜詭弁学派、四ツ谷先輩の怪談。 1

What does it say that, nowadays, those would be numbers which could signal of new part of the roster?

It says that the immense success of the Big 3 and other 2000s series combined with many of them being 200+ chapters made 2010 Jump an unhealthy monopoly.

 

[Jovan]

Seeing Koisome Momiji getting axed with these sales though, what the hell. The final volume was possibly even outpacing Vol 3! Jump would die to have a newbie selling like this now.

│*35058 (4)│------│------│------│------┃*,*35,058 (**4)┃2012/10｜恋染紅葉 1
│*35904 (3)│*55585│------│------│------┃*,*55,585 (*10)┃2012/11｜恋染紅葉 2
│*37912 (3)│*55597│------│------│------┃*,*55,597 (*10)┃2013/01｜恋染紅葉 3
│*53500 (7)│------│------│------│------┃*,*53,500 (**7)┃2013/02｜恋染紅葉 4

 

[Leoat12]

Furudate also failed his first serialization as well. Interesting that he and Hori struggled so much before becoming the modern faces of Jump. Contrast that with the Big 3, who all found success almost all out of the gate (even Zombie Powder had a Double Arts-esque cult following in spite of its cancellation).

It is impressive how more than half of the big successes Jump has right now were built from failure and people still talk about it as if it was something bad. Like in any other career, you can struggle at the beginning, but if you look at yourself and your work and try to improve in the points you were weak, make a serious instrospection and improve, you can achieve success. If you are not ready to deal with failures, you are not ready to deal with life.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2019 ---

Seeing Koisome Momiji getting axed with these sales though, what the hell. The final volume was possibly even outpacing Vol 3! Jump would die to have a newbie selling like this now.

│*35058 (4)│------│------│------│------┃*,*35,058 (**4)┃2012/10｜恋染紅葉 1
│*35904 (3)│*55585│------│------│------┃*,*55,585 (*10)┃2012/11｜恋染紅葉 2
│*37912 (3)│*55597│------│------│------┃*,*55,597 (*10)┃2013/01｜恋染紅葉 3
│*53500 (7)│------│------│------│------┃*,*53,500 (**7)┃2013/02｜恋染紅葉 4

Don't even start talking about Koisome Momiji otherwise I will get depressed, I think it was a very unfair cancellation.
See? Everybody has his scars from Jump system, but it makes part of the game and that's it.

 

[Jovan]

Chainsaw Man/Spy x Family/Heart Gear/Moon Land editor had an interview recently

éè±ç¤¾ã®æããã«èããç·¨éèããè¦ãä»ã®æ代ã®ä½åã®ä½ãæ¹ | ã¢ã«

「インターネットやSNSの時代に、どういった作品を描けばいいのか分からない」しばしば漫画家さんがこぼす悩みです。スマホがあればYouTubeでいつでも映像コンテンツを観れるし、ソーシャルゲームで暇つ

alu.jp

This part seems to be interesting (translated from 4CH)
Promotion is merely a loudspeaker for the product. It's common sense, but no matter how much you promote a boring product, it will never sell. If you promote a boring product as "interesting," you will only sow doubt in the customers: "I'm never going to trust what this author and publisher says". This applies to publishers and editors as well, but if the creator can't claim their work is "interesting" with confidence, they should not promote the product with enthusiasm.

 

[ruggia]

My scar is this one. Still pissed about it to this day. I get you are looking for reception in the magazine, but how can you straight up cancel a newbie work that sells like this with an upward trend and not even move it anywhere else??

│*40644 (7)│------│------│------│------┃*,*40,644 (**7)┃2008/08│ダブルアーツ 1
│*30842 (3)│*48720│------│------│------┃*,*48,720 (*10)┃2008/10│ダブルアーツ 2
│*38106 (4)│*51633│------│------│------┃*,*51,633 (*11)┃2008/12│ダブルアーツ 3

Because there weren't anything else to cancel that wasn't already dead in a few weeks anyway (Bari Haken) other than.... Psyren or Sket Dance.

These things are always a matter of what other series Jump could've possibly chosen at that time.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Chainsaw Man/Spy x Family editor had an interview recently

éè±ç¤¾ã®æããã«èããç·¨éèããè¦ãä»ã®æ代ã®ä½åã®ä½ãæ¹ | ã¢ã«

「インターネットやSNSの時代に、どういった作品を描けばいいのか分からない」しばしば漫画家さんがこぼす悩みです。スマホがあればYouTubeでいつでも映像コンテンツを観れるし、ソーシャルゲームで暇つ

alu.jp

This part seems to be interesting (translated from 4CH)
Promotion is merely a loudspeaker for the product. It's common sense, but no matter how much you promote a boring product, it will never sell. If you promote a boring product as "interesting," you will only sow doubt in the customers: "I'm never going to trust what this author and publisher says". This applies to publishers and editors as well, but if the creator can't claim their work is "interesting" with confidence, they should not promote the product with enthusiasm.

Saw this myself, it's actually where I got the Heart Gear statistic from.

That comment is fascinating though because Kishimoto quite infamously went on record saying that he was going to make Samurai 8 better than Naruto. Wonder if that kind of attempt at building the work up put a bad taste in people's mouths.

 

[Jovan]

Saw this myself, it's actually where I got the Heart Gear statistic from.

That comment is fascinating though because Kishimoto quite infamously went on record saying that he was going to make Samurai 8 better than Naruto. Wonder if that kind of attempt at building the work up put a bad taste in people's mouths.

Interesting to see nobody asked him anything (nor he said something) about Moon Land. Which is to be expected, I guess. It is pretty much his odd one out right now.

 

[Franz]

That comment is fascinating though because Kishimoto quite infamously went on record saying that he was going to make Samurai 8 better than Naruto. Wonder if that kind of attempt at building the work up put a bad taste in people's mouths.

Do you know that there is something called advertising?
Obviously no one believed it, not even he, that Samurai would surpass Naruto in terms of sales and popularity.

They are declarations that leave the time they find ........

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2019 ---

However the hatred for Samurai that had been created online since its very first chapters ìera and is still immense .... it was taken for granted that these very first data would have been interpreted in such a drastic way.

I am neutral, in the sense that neither the series nor the author make me mad, but really, to hear certain people it seems that Kishimoto killed his parents.

 

[Rain Spectre]

This "anyone who speaks negatively of Samurai 8/makes conclusions based on provided data has a Kishi hate-boner" thing is seriously starting to annoy me.

You want to know the reason why people speak about Samurai 8 so much in such a context? Because it's interesting. It's interesting because it's witnessing one Jump's most famous creators make his grand return after months of hype, only for the results to come out with a polarizing reception at best and underwhelming sales. It's interesting to ask what went wrong, why so many people didn't take to the series, and what the results will be. And it's interesting watching the series slow path as it struggles under its own wait without a clear future.

I'm honestly baffled as to why you act like everyone here is just mindlessly hating on Kishimoto, when all we're doing is providing our own perspectives on a series which's fate could heavily impact the future of Jump as a whole. This isn't hate, this is just observation, plain and simple.